Alex_P said:
Therumancer said:
Very much in keeping with my thought processes that male homosexuals are ultimatly dangerous and attracted to pre-sexual humans in great enough numbers where I feel the behavior should be heavily regulated (while feeling it is not really an issue with Lesbians).
Summary of your post: "Gay men scare me, and are therefore
child rapists. Lesbians are okay, though, because I like to watch."
I know I'm supposed to be all impartial and welcoming, but there's really no way here... Your bigotry is abominable. Your equivocation is pathetic. Your self-deception is monumental.
-- Alex
Actually, I didn't go on a more descriptive rant on the subject because I covered it in some other posts and didn't want to derail the thread by focusing on a detailed analysis of homosexuality. But hey, now that you've been so openminded to other people's opinions and experiences, I now have to defend myself.
Before I get started I will say that if a gay romance with Sky is possible (and I checked a couple of Faqs it doesn't seem to be) I certainly never noticed which I guess says something about it being extremely low key, or someone reading into things. But whatever, I could be wrong about that one it's been a while since I played.
As far as the rest goes, I will say a couple of things:
#1: My opinion about gay men has waffled over the years, but ultimatly I come back to the "anti-gay" stance due to experiences. Every single time someone convinces me that I might be wrong about gay men, something happens to convince me otherwise. Every single bloody time.
If anyone has a right to be "homophobic" it's me. I was molested when I was six years old while in a Residential Placement. An experiences that was so traumatic I cannot remember it, but I was told it happened, which in of itself bothers me.
However over the years I've learned quite a bit about the whole gay subculture, I know a lot of the stereotypes are not true, and honestly a lot of people have tried to convince me an anti-gay attitude is wrong, with mixed degrees of success. Beyond a certain point my issues ceased to be any kind of a personal vendetta.
Honestly I could care less if they are differance, and honestly even as a victim if I believed it was only a few bad eggs I would not have an issue. If the lisping queen stereotype popularized by the left wing was true I couldn't care less. Heck even if the other stereotypes (the ultra machos, leatherboys, etc...) were simply that way I'd pretty much say hey "to each their own". I really don't care what anyone does in their bedroom for the most part when you get down to it.
#2: HOWEVER, the differance is that for all of the left wing politics and propaganda out there, gay men are attracted to pre-sexual humans. When I say pre-sexual I do not mean "jailbait". Jailbait being young people who are physically capable/developed for sex but not emotionally or intellectually capable of dealing with it and it's repercussions (a whole differant discussion which I've covered in other topics). There is a great differance between a six year old and say a 13 year old. Your typical heterosexual loses control and he does something bad, deflowers a 13 year old and definatly deserves to be punished, that's wrong on a ton of levels. A gay man loses control and the victim could on average be deeply into the pre-sexual stages of development, going from merely being "deeply wrong" to "monsterous".
In general your dealing with a situation where a lot of gay guys do things like head out of the country to molest children and such. I've actually had a few experiences with guys who I knew were gay and thought were generally okay later being found with snapshots of them with like five year olds and such. This is not "urban legend material" this is "been there" material.
On top of this you have organizations like NAMBLA, for the uninitiated that stands for "North American Man-Boy Love Association". A political organization specifically geared towards the legalization of homosexual child molestation, and the defense of child molestors. Despite being referred to as a "fringe" if you can even get the Left Wing to acknowlege they exist, these guys are so numerous, powerful, and well financed that even fairly powerful organizations are afraid to cross them.
For example, when working Casino Security at Foxwoods (the largest Resort/Casino in the world) we did something referred to as "Code Adam" training, specifically to identify and deal with child molestors and such given the existance of the "Treehouse" Arcade and things like that. Now in general I'll be the first person to tell you that Casino Security is a joke (Dog and Pony Show, hold up the uniform and take the blame for things that go wrong, etc...). But it is deeply disturbing when you go through training like this and then after the local law enforcement reps leave, you get a warning from your bosses NOT to act on this information because of NAMBLA. Referring to cases where even in clear cut cases security departments had been sued/attacked successfully by high powered lawyers from that organization. This incidently coming from not just the World's largest casino (overall) but a Casino that is also on an Indian reservation and can when push comes to shove more or less do whatever the heck it wants (it's own police force, fire department, courthouse, jail, etc.. if they WANT to screw with you on their turf these guys can do it, and they are not some Podunk tribe. They have tons of cash and pull with the state).
Oh yeah, a minority "desire", and a bloody harmless, irrelevent, organization. Bullhockey. Groups like ABIGAYLES (American Bi Gay and Lesbian) disavow them, but look at who seems to be wielding the power.
Of course I'd imagine most people I debate subjects like this have no idea who either NAMBLA or ABIGAYLES are to begin with, since they argue from a position of "tolerance" and what political correctness has taught them is right, rather than any actual experiences other than maybe having a gay friend or two.
I very much doubt many who disagreed with me to begin with to have read this far anyway.
#3: The whole "you want to seperate Lesbians because you like to watch" thing is nothing but well rehearsed political BS. I mean honestly, it sounds good to try and shoot down the unprepared who make similar arguements to mine, but is ultimatly pretty thoughtless.
"Vivid Video" is not reality. Real lesbians aren't usually all that good looking to begin with, and even if they are usually have little interest in letting men watch them.
I can enjoy some hawt girl on girl porn as much as the next guy, but the real reason I seperate Lesbians is because in general I've been hard pressed to find many examples at all of lesbians molesting anyone. Except maybe in prison (my Dad is currently a CO at a Woman's Prison) and that isn't quite what you'd think from "Women in Prison" movies.
Sure, you periodically hear stuff about how "psycho daddy" raped his son, or whatever. While I'm not saying it HASN'T happened, I'd be pretty hard pressed to find any cases of a lesbian doing anything similar. "Lesbo Mommy Molests Six Year Old Daughter" it would make a great headline, but it's just not happening in any great capacity.
Heck when I was in residential, there were plenty of kids who talked about being sexually abused, and yep you had the gay rape of young boys. You didn't see as much being inflicted by women, and most sexual abuse even on girls happened when they were older.
Oh sure in various Japanese Anime, you'll find a lot of stuff oriented at men that revolves around lesbian rape and child molestation, but that's fantasy for the most part. If it's going on, you just don't see it in anywhere near the numbers.
So as a result I kind of feel that seperating Gays from Lesbians is politic. A lot of it probably also has to do with the differant mentalities of men and women. It's not just about liking one's own gender, differant genders handle things differnatly (the subject of books like Men are From Mars, Women are From Venus).
I also feel it scews statistics and such. It's easy to go "well gays aren't statistically more likely to attack anyone than heterosexuals" but in doing so the stats are typically drawn using both Gay men AND Lesbians and if the Lesbians aren't generally doing anything like that it doubles the overall pool the incidents involving the gay men are part of.
Then of course (as I've mentioned before) there is the whole sex tourism industry and frankly the "shocking" revelations from that which people pull out for a bit of attention once in a while rarely seem to ever stick around long enough to seriously be applied to the issue... hmmm.
Then there is of course the whole issue of porn intended to appeal to gay men. When I get it in my mailbox (usually when my spam filters aren't working) the worst you see for heteros is fetish junk, and stuff about teens. The gay men stuff is like "The Younger, The Tighter" and seem to be flirting around the subject of little boys. Even if they don't have that, it's still the draw they try and use.
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The overall point here is this: You don't have to agree with me. But dismissing me as a small minded bigot is ridiculous. My opinions have been a long term in forming, and I've had more reason to think about this subject than most. I've also stuck my nose into things that most people wouldn't.
Ultimatly the problem with political correctness is that the people conditioned by it are automatically dismissive of ANYTHING that is perceived as intolerant.
Fine, disagree with me. I can deal with that. Not everyone has the experiences I do. The media has it's political crusade, and claims that the overwhelming majority are pro-gay to the extreme. But do NOT go jumping to conclusions about what I think, or why I think it.
Also, I'm not great at argueing the point or articulating myself. However if you ever bother to seriously look at the anti-gay movements out there that are NOT based strictly on morality or religion (which are usually the ones the left wing allows to speak specifically so they can smack them down and wind up looking better) you'll find there is a lot more in terms of logic, real experiences, and investigation than you might think.
In my case very little of my opinions have come from rhetoric or second hand sources. I did the Code Adam training, I know what's up with NAMBLA from how things turned out with that. I've actually seen "nice, normal" gay guys busted for kiddie porn vacation photos on their phones. I've sat in therepy with young sex abuse victims. I've sat down and listened to groups like ABIGAYLES when they spoke at my college to hear what they had to say. I've given gay men a chance as friends.
The thing is that the world is not a nice, and happy place. A much as a message that "everyone is fundementally the same, so just show tolerance" appeals, reality just doesn't live up to those high ideals.
I mean heck, it would be nice if you could get people of all cultures and sexual orientations to sit around, join hands, sing "we are the world" and have the globe unite in peace and harmony, with doves and a rainbow overhead. But that simply is not how things are.
>>>----Therumancer--->
