It's more than just how the characters look dude. Their voices are also very annoying. Both Japanese and English dubs. Pretty much every game to come out of Japan has that idiotic high pitch voiced character. Another thing is how the characters talk. They say the cheesiest things you can imagine. The stories are even worse just like the characters. There was a time when Japanese games were not shit but that time has passed. Western developers can make better and more mature games and I don't think Japanese devs will make any game worth playing anytime soon. Though I still have high hopes for Final Fantasy Versus.LilithSlave said:
Do many Westerners really dislike Japanese games for such shallow reasons as "anime"?
- Thread starter LilithSlave
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I'm just going to go ahead and answer yes to the title. I do not care for anything that even remotely reminds me of anime and how it looks. I'm allergic to it, much in the same way I'm allergic to RPGs and furniture in strong colors.
Out of experience, I tend to avoid media from Japan. And whereas I know that sounds like a pretty preposterous generalization, I have yet to see an exception to that rule, and I don't see any point in denying my prejudgment. I just hate movies, series and games from Japan. They have a special style to it that I just cannot take.
Out of experience, I tend to avoid media from Japan. And whereas I know that sounds like a pretty preposterous generalization, I have yet to see an exception to that rule, and I don't see any point in denying my prejudgment. I just hate movies, series and games from Japan. They have a special style to it that I just cannot take.
Following the sensible CarlMinez, I will also just answer the title.
I like Japanese games. I find their way of directly addressing uncomfortable aspects of life, instead of skirting around them or hinting at them, refreshing and interesting. I do enjoy the greater level of emotion in JRPGs because I am at that age where I deal with all the emotional (hormonal) shit.
I don't think it makes sense for anyone to write-off an entire section of the entertainment industry, but thats just me and I can't see other peoples' thoughts.
I like Japanese games. I find their way of directly addressing uncomfortable aspects of life, instead of skirting around them or hinting at them, refreshing and interesting. I do enjoy the greater level of emotion in JRPGs because I am at that age where I deal with all the emotional (hormonal) shit.
I don't think it makes sense for anyone to write-off an entire section of the entertainment industry, but thats just me and I can't see other peoples' thoughts.
A game's visual aesthetics play a big part in how people perceive the game. A large part of that is due to what the observer associates the aesthetic with. If a game looks like anime, and the person looking at it doesn't like anime, there's a good chance they're not going to play the game.
I don't understand why that's hard to understand or "Shallow." A game's aesthetic is one of the many things developers have to take into consideration when designing a game, because it's going to tell a lot of people what your game is about.
And it's a sword that cuts both ways. If you make your game look like an anime, but is actually nothing like one, I guarantee some people will be upset because they went into it with different expectations.
Furthermore, not liking a game based on it's aesthetics is completely viable. If you claim it's not, then you also have no right to complain about "Brown FPS's." That's still aesthetic. Games don't get a free ticket just because they have an aesthetic you like.
Additionally, throughout the entire game, you are going to be staring at the visuals. If you don't like the art style those visuals are rendered in, do you really think that won't affect your enjoyment of the game?
I don't understand why that's hard to understand or "Shallow." A game's aesthetic is one of the many things developers have to take into consideration when designing a game, because it's going to tell a lot of people what your game is about.
And it's a sword that cuts both ways. If you make your game look like an anime, but is actually nothing like one, I guarantee some people will be upset because they went into it with different expectations.
Furthermore, not liking a game based on it's aesthetics is completely viable. If you claim it's not, then you also have no right to complain about "Brown FPS's." That's still aesthetic. Games don't get a free ticket just because they have an aesthetic you like.
Additionally, throughout the entire game, you are going to be staring at the visuals. If you don't like the art style those visuals are rendered in, do you really think that won't affect your enjoyment of the game?
There are animated shows with stories, characters and motivations that are ten times more interesting than the garbage I see in the Japanese game market. I prefer to see artists draw on paper and plan their stories over hundreds of issues, developing their characters and giving them personalities. I just don't like Japanese games. I think that Final Fantasy ought to become final some day, because as of now it is the greatest gaming joke in existence, bigger than Duke Nukem.
Wow, subjective thread much? A lot of Japanese games are so deeply invested in their style that if it's not your thing, it's difficult for an outsider to get into. I could say someone doesn't like French New Wave films for "shallow reasons", but maybe the aesthetic, or the types of stories, just don't appeal to them.
I have friends that are into anime, so I've been exposed to a lot of it. I think a few, like Cowboy Bebop and Ghost in the Shell, are top quality. But as a genre, anime, and JRPGs for most of the same reasons, just don't appeal to me. I find the characters impossible to relate to most of the time, since the majority tend to be one-dimensional, and the plots are often so ludicrous that it's hard for me to get into the action.
Then again I'm not a big fan of American or European television for a lot of those reasons. I think it's kind of annoying though that the OP thinks people only dislike anime for one of the few mentioned reasons.
I have friends that are into anime, so I've been exposed to a lot of it. I think a few, like Cowboy Bebop and Ghost in the Shell, are top quality. But as a genre, anime, and JRPGs for most of the same reasons, just don't appeal to me. I find the characters impossible to relate to most of the time, since the majority tend to be one-dimensional, and the plots are often so ludicrous that it's hard for me to get into the action.
Then again I'm not a big fan of American or European television for a lot of those reasons. I think it's kind of annoying though that the OP thinks people only dislike anime for one of the few mentioned reasons.
being a westerner, i have to say im a little put off by the title.but as for japanese games, its like many have already said, the gameplay. demon's souls is awesome, catherine kinda lame, so it really depends to me on the style and topic. I would even play one of the pure monologue ones if it was interestng and fun. sadly, to me, most are not.
I'm not obligated to play any game, and so I can choose which games I play, and which I don't for whatever reasons I see fit; none of which would make me shallow. If I don't care for the aesthetics of a game, the game-play, the story, or the genre I won't play it; I think it's referred to as having personal tastes.
Here's a question for you: If your favorite colour is red, but I dislike red so don't wear red clothing; does that make me shallow?
Here's a question for you: If your favorite colour is red, but I dislike red so don't wear red clothing; does that make me shallow?
This just in: Japanese people aren't American.
Also in the news: US gamers complain because sushi is made from fish & isn't "cooked properly."
Ok, serious post now.
Japanese games made by Japanese gamemakers are made by Japanese people. Shocker, I know. But here's the thing, Japanese people have completely different ideas about what they want to see in a game. And, believe it or not, Japanese gamemakers are CRAZY WORRIED about what their customers want in a game.
What this all boils down to is Japanese games are they way they are because the Japanese game-playing customer wants it that way.
Just as Brimfield wouldn't play a Japanese game because it was too "gay," there are Japanese gamers don't care for Kratos or Gears of War-style blood & guts.
Also, those "outdated" turn-based systems are still in Japanese games because that's what Japanese gamers want and even expect to see in their games. Do you guys know the Dynasty Warriors series? The Dynasty Warriors game developers actually feel like they don't dare change anything about that series except to update the graphics, because the fans of the series would EXPLODE if there was the even the smallest change.
It's unfortunate, but the cultural divide between Japan & the US has grown wider in the past ten years. That divergence in aesthetics is manifesting in Japanese games not selling as well in the US as they do in Japan. Extra Credits has a good examination of this phenomenon http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-1
Also in the news: US gamers complain because sushi is made from fish & isn't "cooked properly."
Ok, serious post now.
Japanese games made by Japanese gamemakers are made by Japanese people. Shocker, I know. But here's the thing, Japanese people have completely different ideas about what they want to see in a game. And, believe it or not, Japanese gamemakers are CRAZY WORRIED about what their customers want in a game.
What this all boils down to is Japanese games are they way they are because the Japanese game-playing customer wants it that way.
Just as Brimfield wouldn't play a Japanese game because it was too "gay," there are Japanese gamers don't care for Kratos or Gears of War-style blood & guts.
Also, those "outdated" turn-based systems are still in Japanese games because that's what Japanese gamers want and even expect to see in their games. Do you guys know the Dynasty Warriors series? The Dynasty Warriors game developers actually feel like they don't dare change anything about that series except to update the graphics, because the fans of the series would EXPLODE if there was the even the smallest change.
It's unfortunate, but the cultural divide between Japan & the US has grown wider in the past ten years. That divergence in aesthetics is manifesting in Japanese games not selling as well in the US as they do in Japan. Extra Credits has a good examination of this phenomenon http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-1
Not at all. Lots of people avoid Lady Gaga because she looks terrible. Same thing really. Why pay £40 for a game with a visual style you don't like?LilithSlave said:
I dislike those gay looking men in games, and I'll admit I don't like anime games either. Reason being, they make the signs of a poor quality game. They rely on a sellable cliche to make money. They're like the equivalent of movie tie-in games in the West.
That being said, I play more Japanese games than anything else, and I love 80's and 90's anime. But it doesn't mean I want to see anime in every Japanese game going. I want them to explore different styles that compliment the game and make it feel unique.
People are missing the OP's point here.TheVioletBandit said:
To completely trash an entire country's industry because one person doesn't like an artistic style demonstrates a lack of understanding, much less empathy or a will to learn something new. That's pretty much the definition of shallow.
A single person expressing a personal opinion regarding a game, or even a set of games, is a completely different thing. You can have whatever opinions about a game you like. You can spend your money on whatever games you want.
But condemning all of Japan's gaming industry because you think a hat from Final Fantasy Tactics A-2 is "gay," the way that Brimfield did, is the HEIGHT of shallowness.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.367896-The-reason-why-Japaneses-games-are-floundering-in-the-west?page=1
I don't buy anime games(or anything anime
mostly because of what is attached, not because of the art design in and of itself. I don't ask that they cater to me: they as developers have the right to make whatever games they want, just as I the consumer have the right to never buy any of their games. When they have systemic problems it simply becomes easier avoid the whole medium rather than attempt to sift through them for the possibly good games.
Childishly bad writing/stilted dialogue
Generally bad plots
Terrible voice acting
Poor character design
mostly because of what is attached, not because of the art design in and of itself. I don't ask that they cater to me: they as developers have the right to make whatever games they want, just as I the consumer have the right to never buy any of their games. When they have systemic problems it simply becomes easier avoid the whole medium rather than attempt to sift through them for the possibly good games.Childishly bad writing/stilted dialogue
Generally bad plots
Terrible voice acting
Poor character design
I wouldn't say i hate it for being to..'anime' as that's a broad term. After all, for each one of these [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xOm-T5M6gss/TAXW9ncv8wI/AAAAAAAAAD4/MfWvv_hxi1o/s1600/naruto_shippuden.jpg] that exists there is always one ofthese [http://i43.tinypic.com/287kdc7.png].
My problem with J-RPG's is the oh so limited scope they utilize: They have thousands of different stories to tell, different types of archtypes for characters...and what do they use? Look at the cast of FF 10, give them a physical make-over, make one or two slightly different in personality and pack them up ready to save the world. That is LITERALLY every modern mainstream J-RPG in a nutshell. I'm not saying it's EVERY J-RPG, because i have seen some ones that have done some very good things and did some new things but...BY GOD, can they just try doing something new with the characters at-least? (Final Fantasy, i am looking at you)
Give us an older protagonist (Nier did this, did it well, and i wanna see it again), make us play as an outright bastard (Drakengard did this, and it was damned refreshing to see) or even give us a chance to play the villain. Just do SOMETHING new with the character archtypes and stop recycling them so glaringly.
If they did that, and started taking some more risks with their character archtypes then i would be a very happy man and would give the games more of a chance.
My problem with J-RPG's is the oh so limited scope they utilize: They have thousands of different stories to tell, different types of archtypes for characters...and what do they use? Look at the cast of FF 10, give them a physical make-over, make one or two slightly different in personality and pack them up ready to save the world. That is LITERALLY every modern mainstream J-RPG in a nutshell. I'm not saying it's EVERY J-RPG, because i have seen some ones that have done some very good things and did some new things but...BY GOD, can they just try doing something new with the characters at-least? (Final Fantasy, i am looking at you)
Give us an older protagonist (Nier did this, did it well, and i wanna see it again), make us play as an outright bastard (Drakengard did this, and it was damned refreshing to see) or even give us a chance to play the villain. Just do SOMETHING new with the character archtypes and stop recycling them so glaringly.
If they did that, and started taking some more risks with their character archtypes then i would be a very happy man and would give the games more of a chance.
thewaever said:
I kind of don't understand what your point is, but I'm going try to respond anyway.
I don't care about Brimfields post, I was responding specifically to the idea of "the west shallowly refusing a game because it has manga designs". If I decide I don't want a game simply because I don't like the way it's packaged, it doesn't mean anything about my character. It doesn't mean I'm shallow, lack empathy, understanding or gaming comprehension, and to say so seems ridiculous. It's me deciding whether or not to buy a product nothing more.