Do members of the military get too much respect? What profession do you respect the most?

[SenseOfTumour]

I'm torn between two sides as usual...

Firstly, considering the number of veterans in the US who are now homeless and living on the streets, under bridges, etc, I'd say America fully respects its troops, until they stop being useful, then fuck them. I'd suggest that needs looking into. So many also have mental disorders and drug or alcohol problems, and that's not 'weakness, fuck them', I believe it's down to being made to kill people on demand.

However, I do remember growing up in the 80s, and in the UK, soldiers had a very bad name for going out in the town, getting drunk and beating the living hell out of anyone who got in their way, so, in summary...

I'll respect anyone until they prove themselves too damned stupid or hateful to deserve my respect. Yet even with my usual levels of cynicism, I believe MOST people join the emergency services, medicine, the military, etc for good reasons.

 

[Trenten Meyer]

I agree with you, but just stating my oppinion that if somebody is able to do a truly standup job in there profession, they deserve some serious respect.

Also, no one, and I doubt anyone would, talk directly at me, I got to get some sleep for school and I prefer to respond as soon as possible, and it would be terrible to miss your comment due to sleep

*edit* this is for locke... I can't remember the rest of your name, and iPods were truly not ment for forums

 

[AngloDoom]

Depends on the country. From what I've heard in America it goes something like:

"Hey there, I'm a soldier."
"Wow, I respect you fighting for our country you miniature hero!"

Compared to England:

"Hey there, I'm a soldier."
"You're a squaddy? Don't go starting any fights now."

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

But soldiers fighting in current conflicts? I don't wish to sound ungrateful here, but somebody who goes to far-flung countries to kill the natives and is driven more by the pay than a pressing need to protect the motherland... isn't that the definition of a mercenary?

A number of points.

First, while getting a paycheck for a service rendered is all well and good, simply receiving pay for serving in the military is insufficient to make one a mercenary. There is a long history of professional soldiers being paid for their work and there has long been an effort to distinguish the professional soldier from the soldier of fortune. The distinction generally comes down to a difficult to define quality. Who does the soldier serve? If it is the nation (or king or whatever was in place at the time) and they draw a paycheck for their service, they are simply a professional soldier. If they serve themselves they are a solider of fortune.

I suppose the best way to distinguish between the two is to simply consider the difference in wages. I spent 14 months in Iraq for example between November 2004 and January 2006. For my service, I was paid a wage (that I kept) just shy of $25,000. It should be noted this is less than the average wage of an unskilled laborer for a similar period of work especially when you consider my "work week" was in excess of eighty hours on average and I did not get anything resembling a day off for seven months. To put it another way, had I worked a similar amount at a minimum wage job I would have made significantly more doing some menial task (like, for example, flipping burgers). Again, being paid was certainly a plus but one would have to assume that for such a labor I must have been receiving some other form of compensation other than money.

To put it simply, when I joined the military it was because I was of a mind to serve for the greater good. While the intention and the reality were eventually thrown into stark relief, I believe it is that intention that displays the difference.

To put it in contrast, a modern solider of fortune working for a major private military corporation will easily earn a wage that is four times higher than I was paid all while having to put in far shorter days and, quite generally at least, in far less dangerous conditions. Yes, the vast majority of such people learned their trade as professional soldiers and many of them might have even joined for the same reasons I did in the beginning. But eventually, for whatever reason, these people decided that their loyalty was to the paycheck rather than the nation.

 

[Silenttalker22]

Some funny discussion by people, scorning military respect, utterly convinced they know what they're talking about. Funny, funny stuff.

What's funny is vague criticism, acting snide and superior, thereby showing the most arrogance of all.

Superior to your "rationale". Absolutely. Your view is so narrow that I have to laugh at your attempt to quantify respect, and the narrow scope of experience you're obviously speaking with.

 

[Womplord]

I'm suprised that I haven't seen this in the thread, but I most respect scientists, mathematicians and the like, rather than any other profession. People who are REALLY advancing the world forward deserve the most respect. Though I think that soldiers deserve a lot of respect I think it's a little bit overblown, and scientists deserve WAY more respect.

 

[wfieldb]

Military? Not much education required in and of itself. Certain positions, but the respect people give doesn't seem to depend on that. How much good it does? Right now I'm not seeing much at all. Might help a bit, but the helping seems to be mostly fixing things that they broke in the first place.

Do you know the proper way of constructing a foxhole in stage? Best procedure for surviving a nuclear blast? Look up all the US field manuals they have online, there's quite a bit of information there.

Likewise, I don't know about the US military so much, but what about the military's role in East Timor? The Solomon Islands? Disaster relief in Haiti?

Why the hell would I need to know that? I'm not talking about that kind of education.

What about those? Some minor things. What, are you trying to paint that as the majority of what the military does? And for things like disaster relief there are organizations that help. I do not see people falling down to lick their boots.

I honestly have no idea what your logic is here. It seems your saying that certain forms of education (degrees or similar) are more important than the training that the soldiers receive. That seems a little odd because for one as far as I know every soldier gets trained in field medicine which saves lives. Then you have the training for whichever specific job they are going into which in a lot of cases (not all) either directly saves lives or helps protect others. I'd say that's at least as important or useful if not more so than a degree in business management or something.

 

[Dregnr]

A soldier does deserve respect, everyone does to some point. I would say soldiers that serve and do so in an honorable fashion do deserve more respect. When a soldier treats their service as a free pass to act like a dick then no they would lose the respect their service granted them.

Now this wouldn't include things like PTSD and other disorders caused from their service. A soldier suffering from PTSD or other service related injuries deserves both respect and patience.

 

[Shadowkire]

....Last I checked surgeons get paid a WHOLE LOT. not as much for the military my friend. Pretty sure surgeons also don't ever really have the need for anything so much as ..well the knife they use for work.

1: After a decade of accumulating debt while learning to be a surgeon people then need to pay malpractice insurance against the certainty that someone will sue them for the slightest complication, whether they were at fault or not. After about a decade of being paid "a WHOLE LOT" a surgeon may have those debts paid, and now needs to build up for retirement which at this point is only 15-20 years away unless an accident or Carpal Tunnel renders his/er hands slightly less than perfectly dexterous.

2: Surgeon may not be a life threatening career, unless you count constant exposure to diseases, but it is dangerous. My brother is a security guard and works at a hospital a few nights each week and not a single week has gone by that he hasn't had a story about a patient striking the staff, or some thug beating on the patients and/or the staff.

3: Military pay is pretty bad, though not that terrible considering soldiers don't need to pay for food or board while working.


I have a lot of respect for the military, but I find the argument that surgeons(or just doctors in general) should be respected less because they get paid "a WHOLE LOT" to be weak and groundless.

A few thugs(when you have security there to protect you and orderly's), debt that can be paid back really quickly with the amount of money they make, and exposure to diseases when you clean up before and after surgery and have every part of your skin covers and hole in your body covered so you can't catch the disesses.....VS. you are your own security and you are in a foreign place where you NEED weapons that if used to there full potential can kill hundreds in a matter of seconds, where you cannot go under 40 while driving and HAVE TO crash into other vehicles to move them for the fear of explosives going off in your face that are not only meant to kill you but you maim you as much as possible? Last I checked...no matter how often a surgeon works, They still eventually get to go home and won't stay at a hospital for months at a time on constant alert that someone might try and kill them and the people they work with.

I'm not saying it's an easy job...but if debt and a few high thugs = a war...you have your priorities really really messed up.

I never said debt + thugs = war. Just saying that I respect both types of people who go through that stuff equally. My point more or less being that a doctor saves lives in a tough environment and a soldier that takes lives(sometimes) in a deadly environment garner the same amount of respect from me. And the high score goes to doctors who work in war zones.

 

[Athinira]

I respect anyone who puts others before themself (and their own safety).

Whether it's a risky job (soldier, police officer in a violent neighborhood, firefighter) or a non-risky one (doctors or other enthusiasts who try to help out people in the third world, expecting nothing or very little in return while combating disease and hunger) doesn't matter that much-

 

[Bobbity]

Soldiers deserve respect true, but not the insane amount that you Americans give them. I was in Seaworld in California a few years ago, and, before a show with two whales swimming around for a bit, they announced over the microphone that we were lucky enough to have a couple of active servicemen in the audience. Literally everyone stood up and acknowledged the three guys, who were the absolute centre of attention.

I mean, a crowd of perhaps a thousand people(?), and we all got up to acknowledge the presence of three soldiers. As much as I respect them for what they do, that struck me as utterly absurd.

Personally, I feel that teachers, policemen, firefighters, doctors (Or any medical profession), and military are all respectable careers, and that the world might be a slightly better place if less emphasis was placed on just how awesome our armies are, but there are very few situations in which I feel that what happened at Seaworld are appropriate.

 

[The Gnome King]

Person A: What do you do?
Person B: I'm actually a Vet. Marine Corps.
Person A: Oh wow. Thank you for your service.

I feel that we respect violence and warfare too much in general in this country. When was the last time we really fought a war to "protect our freedom" instead of "protecting our oil" ...? One of the World Wars, perhaps?

I support every man and woman protecting themselves and their country as Switzerland does - with an armed militia. If you come to kill, rape, or harm my family or myself I will use deadly force to kill you. However, barring that, I am a pacifist.

I don't think that most military folk think for themselves - and there *are* exceptions to this - I have friends in the military that are very free-thinking folk - but the vast majority are taught to follow orders without question and worship the "Chain of Command" - but I honestly don't think they are any more deserving of respect than doctors, teachers, janitors, or any other human being.

Many people I know ended up in the military because they were testosterone filled boys full of violence who loved to shoot guns and didn't have any other career opportunities.

I don't respect a person for their choice of career. I respect them based on the individual they are. There are some military and veterans that I respect greatly, and there are some that I do not respect much at all.

I think that I would respect the world a lot more in general when we get to the point that we don't need a military or need to point guns at each other; a world where people like Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi are "respected" for their battles fought with nonviolence as much as people who choose to fight their battles with the easy way out - the point of a sword or the barrel of a gun.

All gnomes have known this forever. It's better to avoid battle when possible and only fight when pressed into a corner or when defending one's own family or loved ones. Nations and countries are arbitrary and imaginary dividing lines; we're all sentient beings, fighting for the best lives we can have.

 

[TheBelgianGuy]

Person A: What do you do?
Person B: I'm actually a Vet. Marine Corps.
Person A: Oh wow. Thank you for your service.

I feel that we respect violence and warfare too much in general in this country. When was the last time we really fought a war to "protect our freedom" instead of "protecting our oil" ...? One of the World Wars, perhaps?

I support every man and woman protecting themselves and their country as Switzerland does - with an armed militia. If you come to kill, rape, or harm my family or myself I will use deadly force to kill you. However, barring that, I am a pacifist.

I don't think that most military folk think for themselves - and there *are* exceptions to this - I have friends in the military that are very free-thinking folk - but the vast majority are taught to follow orders without question and worship the "Chain of Command" - but I honestly don't think they are any more deserving of respect than doctors, teachers, janitors, or any other human being.

Many people I know ended up in the military because they were testosterone filled boys full of violence who loved to shoot guns and didn't have any other career opportunities.

I don't respect a person for their choice of career. I respect them based on the individual they are. There are some military and veterans that I respect greatly, and there are some that I do not respect much at all.

I think that I would respect the world a lot more in general when we get to the point that we don't need a military or need to point guns at each other; a world where people like Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi are "respected" for their battles fought with nonviolence as much as people who choose to fight their battles with the easy way out - the point of a sword or the barrel of a gun.

All gnomes have known this forever. It's better to avoid battle when possible and only fight when pressed into a corner or when defending one's own family or loved ones. Nations and countries are arbitrary and imaginary dividing lines; we're all sentient beings, fighting for the best lives we can have.

This, this, so much this. I bow for you, sir. (Not really, but I do agree).

Also, I'm pretty sure this topic comes around every month.

 

[Connor Lonske]

I don't think military personnel get too much respect, because after all they are willing to go out and die for their country, if someone is willing to give their life to save anothers then they should get a whole lot of respect it's the ultimate sacrifice.

Also I think that military personnel get a lot of respect because they get paid peanuts where as doctors get a fair bit.

One more thing the cooks have to fight as well as cook up some spicy meatballs.

Personally, on your first statement, what if your not a American or Nato solider, but instead a Taliban soldier. They are dieing for what they believe in also, and are much more proficient in the dieing part, especially suicide.

And what if it's in a different time period? To most Germans in WWII, they thought they were protecting there country and dieing for it.

Now both of these examples are of groups that have a bad history, but what of the US?

We were founded by slave owners, we stole land of hundred thousands of Native Americans, we for the longest time kept the poor and the current considered minority at the bottom of society, we stole land from Mexico, and we raped it with the world wide consumer destination known as the nation wide mall, and we are only in the middle east in the current wars for one thing only, OIL. That's right, oil. Those misguided solders don't even need to fight for our safety, we have nuclear bombs for that(half way sarcasm). We are just fighting so we can gain more land, to plunder and waste on this consumer based economy. I don't respect those solider fighting the wars now, I just feel very sorry.

Sorry that they have willingly indoctrinated themselves to be unquestioning, and in most cases, killing machines. And you know what, they become so unquestioning, that they don't even know what their suppose to do when the leave service. A large portion of the vets in this country go homeless because they are so dependent on others to tell them how to live their lives.

And for your point on getting "payed peanuts," then I'll tell you that I don't respect people anymore than anyone else by default, no mater pay nor pension, but if they were dumb enough to make the choice to put their life on the line and convert themselves to being mindless killing machines for little better than minimum wage, then I think I would have less respect for someone that unintelligent that most people.

Now, while I do understand that people have other jobs than just killing in the military, however you just said that it is still their job to pick up a gun and fight time to time, well lets just start with the fact that they are killing people in the first place.

To some people, killing is purely evil and unforgivable. To others, it's a means to an ends. And for a few, it's the context of the killing that maters. I agree with the later, and in the context of advancing the goals of this corrupt nation, then I find any killing by a Soldier is just as evil as Manslaughter, which I count as manslaughter because they are only aware that it's to protect those back home, I'll give their misguided some credit. But still, manslaughter is manslaughter, so to me, these guys should be going to jail, just me personalty, I wouldn't enforce it.

I'm sure you just skipped this wall of text because you though it was "unpatriotic" or "offensive." Well I find that if your offended by my opinion, which I made sure not to joke about or or put any ideas that are not my own, then I hope you can have just read what I just wrote so I don't get banned.

 

[M-E-D The Poet]

Fagotto, you know what I just realized? Youre nothing but a troll. You show all the symptoms of being a high functioning troll. At first glance it looks like you're honestly arguing something, but if you look closer, you can see it. My first tip of was the fact how civil I was, you were not. "LoL, you're babbling" rather than "I do not understand your argument as you laid it out, I do not believe it stands up." Also the fact that so many people have been pulled into your tapping maw of argument.

He might be a troll but this kind of thinking put people who are just plainly wording there opinions wrong in very bad daylight

By this criterium you could call anyone a troll asking for voices on any negative opinion


OT : I respect wounded soldiers who didn't go buttfuck crazy but learned how to deal with it.
Other than that.... not much

 

[Tipsy Giant]

I hate patriotism, it is so out dated, we are a global community now. So really they are just shooting their own brothers. Kinda sad to glorify that