Do you have any question for Pakistanis?

[Arif_Sohaib]

Some people did wrongly hail the murderer as a hero, I believe that this was wrong as it is not something Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W) would have done. Once he was preaching in Taif and people not only insulted him but also harrassed him and his followers and threw stones at him and made him bleed. The angel Gabriel came and offered to destroy the town but he refused and instead prayed for them and asked God to give them understanding. Now Taif is a resort between Mecca and Medina. Mullahs often forget the moral of this event or choose to ignore it at times.
Also there is a saying of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) which roughly means that whoever prosecutes a non-Muslim in a Muslim country, he will be his prosecutor in the Hereafter.
And a part of the Quran that means killing a human is like killing the entire world and saving a human is like saving the world.
That said, most of our current government is corrupt and the death of two PPP ministers was probably just a way for them to get sympathy while their master Zardari loots our people. He wasn't called Mr 10% for nothing. I don't support killing him but a court case and asset freeze is in order and for entirely different reasons.

Even though Muhammed killed people, quite alot of them.Actions speak louder than words.


So when are you guys going to learn to chill out with religion and be more secular ?

When did he kill innocent people?
It is the misunderstanding of religion that causes problems, not religion. Or would you blame World Of Warcraft for the problems it supposedly causes instead of the people playing it?
Also the murder of Salman Taseer was condemned in Pakistan but the BBC, Sky, CNN and Fox probably refused to show the condemnation.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011\03\05\story_5-3-2011_pg7_16

 

[Arif_Sohaib]

Pakistan, Y U NO HELP US KILL TALIBAN?

The Pakistan army has probably killed more Taliban than your country. Also, how many of them do you want to kill?
Exactly, what is your exit strategy? Or do you believe John McCain's character from W that "There is no exit strategy"?
The more people you kill, the more they will be against you.

your country harbors them, and isn't nearly as hard as them as they should be, nor do they work as closely with NATO as they could. yes i realize the army does battle with the Taliban in the mountains, but it's a not so well kept secret the Pakistani Special Police (i forget the actual name of them, sorry) have close ties with the Taliban, and even fund some of the warlords.

That is just plain and simple propaganda. When you shoot them in Afghanistan, they run over here and then we shoot them here they run over there. This is called guerrilla warfare,we aren't deliberately harboring them.
And there is a difference between helping NATO and turning your own country into a war-zone at their command.
Would you bomb New York or Toronto or London if there was evidence of Taliban there?
Would you even use drones?
Also, you still haven't mentioned what your exit strategy is.

 

[Arif_Sohaib]

Some people did wrongly hail the murderer as a hero, I believe that this was wrong as it is not something Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W) would have done. Once he was preaching in Taif and people not only insulted him but also harrassed him and his followers and threw stones at him and made him bleed. The angel Gabriel came and offered to destroy the town but he refused and instead prayed for them and asked God to give them understanding. Now Taif is a resort between Mecca and Medina. Mullahs often forget the moral of this event or choose to ignore it at times.
Also there is a saying of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) which roughly means that whoever prosecutes a non-Muslim in a Muslim country, he will be his prosecutor in the Hereafter.
And a part of the Quran that means killing a human is like killing the entire world and saving a human is like saving the world.
That said, most of our current government is corrupt and the death of two PPP ministers was probably just a way for them to get sympathy while their master Zardari loots our people. He wasn't called Mr 10% for nothing. I don't support killing him but a court case and asset freeze is in order and for entirely different reasons.

Even though Muhammed killed people, quite alot of them.Actions speak louder than words.


So when are you guys going to learn to chill out with religion and be more secular ?

When did he kill innocent people?
It is the misunderstanding of religion that causes problems, not religion. Or would you blame World Of Warcraft for the problems it supposedly causes instead of the people playing it?
Also the murder of Salman Taseer was condemned in Pakistan but the BBC, Sky, CNN and Fox probably refused to show the condemnation.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011\03\05\story_5-3-2011_pg7_16

Quite regularly, I find his morals/actions to be completely the opposite of my own and I dont think highly of him, and that is putting it politely.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-home.htm

Religion has claimed to guide people and claims authority, it "teaches" us. I can blame religion quite easily, especially when it encourages violent behavior on multiple ocassions. SOciety dragged religion through history and up to todays standard, religion had no issue with slavery, then society changed, religion isnt a teacher, its a stone holding society back, and slowing progress to a truely good society.

The site you mention is not working. I also know of it from another forum and know that it is one made only to defame Islam. If you want to give references, at least give them from sources that at least pretend to be unbiased.

I have one word for you, Rapture. The moment you go in there, you see huge signs says "No Gods or Kings, Only Man" then you go in and see a truly magnificent city but one whose society has completely broken down. I believe that is what society would devolve into without religion.
When you remove God, what accountability do you have except humans that you can easily fool?

 

[ScourgeOfHell]

Gotta agree with the guy above me. Westerners delve so deeply into the problems caused by Islam, they completely look past the things that Islam advocates. Also, bring me one example of Muhummad ever having killed an innocent civilian, and I'll admit your'e right. The inhabitants of Makkah, tried for 10 years, to crush the people of Madina, and the prophet, yet on the day of the conquest of Makkah, when the populace expected to be slaughtered mercilessly, Muhummad forgave the entire city, and ordered punishment for any of his troops, who dared to lay a hand on an unarmed combatant. Bring me a more magnanimous judgement than that.

The simple matter is that Islam is merely an excuse for these terrorists. Its a tools that allows them to control the minds and passions of people. If you must accuse something, Do not accuse our religion, but the people who practice it

 

[ScourgeOfHell]

Gotta agree with the guy above me. Westerners delve so deeply into the problems caused by Islam, they completely look past the things that Islam advocates. Also, bring me one example of Muhummad ever having killed an innocent civilian, and I'll admit your'e right. The inhabitants of Makkah, tried for 10 years, to crush the people of Madina, and the prophet, yet on the day of the conquest of Makkah, when the populace expected to be slaughtered mercilessly, Muhummad forgave the entire city, and ordered punishment for any of his troops, who dared to lay a hand on an unarmed combatant. Bring me a more magnanimous judgement than that.

The simple matter is that Islam is merely an excuse for these terrorists. Its a tool that allows them to control the minds and passions of people. If you must accuse something, Do not accuse our religion, but the people who practice it

 

[ScourgeOfHell]

Sorry double post =P

 

[Mr.Mattress]

1) What are your views on Sharia and the Caliphate System?

and

2) What are your views of Israel (As a nation and it's existance), and of the Israeli-Palestine Conflict?

1) The Sharia System was always meant to be with the time. That is, the laws were tobe updated as the world changed. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. Ever. The Caliphate System is, basically, your King system. Nothing really wrong with that.

2) My personal view is that, if it's recognized by the entire world, might as well recognize as a country then. Pakistanis are likely to accept its existance only when the Palestinians are given compensation for what they endured in the hands of the Israelis.

Okay, that makes sense (Although from what I've read on the Caliphate, they're supposedly the equivalent of Jesus to Muslims: Their Religious Ruler for Life)

Anyways, More Questions:

1: What do you think of the recent events that have happened in Libya, Egypt, and Tunisia? Do you think it'll spread out more?

2: What do you think of the Kurds?

3: How do you feel about America's presence in Afghanistan? What are your views on the USA in general?

And

4: Do you think that Mecca and Medina should remain the way they are (Closed off to Non Muslims)?

 

[Mcface]

Pakistan, Y U NO HELP US KILL TALIBAN?

The Pakistan army has probably killed more Taliban than your country. Also, how many of them do you want to kill?
Exactly, what is your exit strategy? Or do you believe John McCain's character from W that "There is no exit strategy"?
The more people you kill, the more they will be against you.

your country harbors them, and isn't nearly as hard as them as they should be, nor do they work as closely with NATO as they could. yes i realize the army does battle with the Taliban in the mountains, but it's a not so well kept secret the Pakistani Special Police (i forget the actual name of them, sorry) have close ties with the Taliban, and even fund some of the warlords.

That is just plain and simple propaganda. When you shoot them in Afghanistan, they run over here and then we shoot them here they run over there. This is called guerrilla warfare,we aren't deliberately harboring them.
And there is a difference between helping NATO and turning your own country into a war-zone at their command.
Would you bomb New York or Toronto or London if there was evidence of Taliban there?
Would you even use drones?
Also, you still haven't mentioned what your exit strategy is.

The Pakistani government says it's propaganda, NATO and Afghan officials would disagree.
And no, I wouldn't want them bombing newyork. however, if they had to bomb the mountains out in the middle of no where to kill some enemies, sure, go for it. That's the situation. And I'm sure you would see far less mistakes resulting in civilian death if ISAF and Pakistan forces worked together on a better level.
And the exit strategy is to stabilize the region, allow the ANA and ANP to stand on their own feet with ISAF aide, and keep the Taliban out, then US troops would begin to leave.

The bottom line is, if both armies cooperated (which ISAF has said they are not only willing, but want it) the Taliban could be crushed much easier.

 

[cainx10a]

Some people did wrongly hail the murderer as a hero, I believe that this was wrong as it is not something Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W) would have done. Once he was preaching in Taif and people not only insulted him but also harrassed him and his followers and threw stones at him and made him bleed. The angel Gabriel came and offered to destroy the town but he refused and instead prayed for them and asked God to give them understanding. Now Taif is a resort between Mecca and Medina. Mullahs often forget the moral of this event or choose to ignore it at times.
Also there is a saying of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) which roughly means that whoever prosecutes a non-Muslim in a Muslim country, he will be his prosecutor in the Hereafter.
And a part of the Quran that means killing a human is like killing the entire world and saving a human is like saving the world.
That said, most of our current government is corrupt and the death of two PPP ministers was probably just a way for them to get sympathy while their master Zardari loots our people. He wasn't called Mr 10% for nothing. I don't support killing him but a court case and asset freeze is in order and for entirely different reasons.

Even though Muhammed killed people, quite alot of them.Actions speak louder than words.


So when are you guys going to learn to chill out with religion and be more secular ?

When did he kill innocent people?
It is the misunderstanding of religion that causes problems, not religion. Or would you blame World Of Warcraft for the problems it supposedly causes instead of the people playing it?
Also the murder of Salman Taseer was condemned in Pakistan but the BBC, Sky, CNN and Fox probably refused to show the condemnation.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011\03\05\story_5-3-2011_pg7_16

Quite regularly, I find his morals/actions to be completely the opposite of my own and I dont think highly of him, and that is putting it politely.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-home.htm

Religion has claimed to guide people and claims authority, it "teaches" us. I can blame religion quite easily, especially when it encourages violent behavior on multiple ocassions. SOciety dragged religion through history and up to todays standard, religion had no issue with slavery, then society changed, religion isnt a teacher, its a stone holding society back, and slowing progress to a truely good society.

The site you mention is not working. I also know of it from another forum and know that it is one made only to defame Islam. If you want to give references, at least give them from sources that at least pretend to be unbiased.

I have one word for you, Rapture. The moment you go in there, you see huge signs says "No Gods or Kings, Only Man" then you go in and see a truly magnificent city but one whose society has completely broken down. I believe that is what society would devolve into without religion.
When you remove God, what accountability do you have except humans that you can easily fool?

The site shows quotes from your texts, so that part of your argument is basically this

It dosent matter what the sites purpose is, it gives references to your texts, they are correct, dont try and doge that.

Rapture, you mena the place that got messed up becuase ADAM was addictive and caused psychological effects.

How about you look at Sweden, Norway, Finland, etc. They arent very religious, mostly atheist iirc, and some of the best places in the world.
Now you have Israel, America who enjoy starting wars and still have lots of problems.
Then you have muslim countries who still have stupid blashemy laws, sharia and basically ignore human rights (stoning in Iran anyone ? Honour killings, amputation, etc.)

Without religion we would be much better, technologically and moraly.
God is an ass anyway demanding worship, bullying people, claiming to be loving then making threats if people dont conform, and half the shit that happened around the time those religions started, we dont do anymore, I am actually better than most of those "good" people.
I dont rape, enslave, murder, descriminate based on sex or sexuality. I dont need those rules becuase I am already above them.

Hello Rastelin. How are you today?

 

[Cakes]

*snip*

Has it ever occurred to you that a Muslim probably knows more about Islam than you?

 

[RUINER ACTUAL]

I know it's a big problem, but I didn't know they started bombing mosques. Confused. What is that accomplishing? If they're already bombing mosques, why doesn't the government ask for help from the UN? Have a peace keeping force come in to protect those places and try to squeeze the Taliban harder and back towards Afghanistan and the Americans?

Which makes into a bigger problem. At least it people see that the Taliban are doing it for their own whacky agenda. And the UN has no real power in Pakistan, same thing converse. Pakistan has no real in UN.

and people have tried but... they're stubborn. >.<

As all leaders are, dictator or democratic. Not trying to make anyone angry, but if you get rid of religion, you end this senseless violence. We won't have Muslim extremists bombing mosques or markets, we won't have retarded politicians saying God told them that everyone should be free, and it would all but end tensions in the middle east related to Israel. We can stop bickering about things that MIGHT have happened 1200-3500 years ago and work on problems like global climate change, renewable energy, education, etc. But I digress. Hopefully this all ends soon.

Before Islam, Arabs used to burry their new born daughters alive and were involved in all kinds of evil and there was no rule of law. For some people, if they think there is no one to answer to when they die, what is the point of doing good things.

That's fucking terrible. Those 'some people' are pretty messed up. In these modern times, I know many people in the middle east still live in the bronze age, but for the rest of us, we've kind of figured out we shouldn't murder babies like that. If all you're looking forward to is your after life, kill yourself right now, but I'm going to live my life for my friends, family, and myself, not some invisible guy in the clouds.

I only mentioned the worse evil they had before Islam and they had many other vices too, you name it they did it.This was because they didn't care, they thought there was no accountability. I know doing good for fear of accountability doesn't sound noble, but for some people that the only reason they would,even today.
The character of Henry Leland in Alpha Protocol exemplifies this, he knows the law is in his hands, he knows the CIA would do anything to get his weapons and he knows that if he fails, he would just die and no one would really punish his greed. And so, just for money ,he orchestrates a plan to engulf the whole world in a war. Anyone who believes in accountability after this life, would never do that.

And with Islam, they are blowing themselves up and killing innocent people. Now, to them, there is accountability, and they think they are being rewarded for it in their afterlife. Did I miss something? If there is no accountability, it is bad, but if you can be held accountable to a massacre in the name of your god, you are rewarded? Epic WTF. I think they should've stuck to the baby murder.

I don't think there is ANY accountability after I'm alive, mostly because I'll be dead. That doesn't mean I'm going to bury babies alive or try to start a world war. And there are people who contradict your last sentence entirely. Example: George W Bush. This failure of a human being does think there is accountability in the after life, and he started a war for no reason that has left a massive number of civilians and soldiers dead or wounded. Accountability in the afterlife is meaningless with someone this diluted.

If you removed the fear factor of accountability in the afterlife, people would naturally become nicer and more peaceful. You shouldn't scare children into going to church because they'll go to hell otherwise, and you shouldn't teach them how to operate an AK-47 because a book told you to hate the infidel. Everyone is equally at fault here. It's human nature to attack those different than you, but if we all become a bit more alike, maybe we would be better off, no?

 

[Grand_Arcana]

Alright, so I have a question this time:

A friend of mine is Pakistani. Best friend, actually. For the most part we agree on most things except for homosexuality. I'm tolerant because:

A. I abhor any form of bigotry and prejudice on principle
B. I don't believe mankind has any knowledge of God's will, only here-say mangled by hyperbole and censorship.

My friend, OTOH, wants to put them all on a desert island to die if he's generous, and cut their heads off when he's not. I understand how non-racist whites can maintain friendships with racist whites, but I digress, is homophobia a severe problem that must be dealt with, or does Pakistan in general concur with my friend?

 

[mParadox]

homophobic

Wrong. We are meant to to tolerant to everyone. Even gays. That doesn't who they are, what religion do they pratise and so on and so forth. True that Islam is against Homosexuality. But that shouldn't stop Muslims from being tolerant. Heck, there are even gay Muslims.

Anyways, More Questions:

1: What do you think of the recent events that have happened in Libya, Egypt, and Tunisia? Do you think it'll spread out more?

2: What do you think of the Kurds?

3: How do you feel about America's presence in Afghanistan? What are your views on the USA in general?

And

4: Do you think that Mecca and Medina should remain the way they are (Closed off to Non Muslims)?

1) People are dying. The dictators aren't really going away. Not going according to plan I say.

2) They are respectful people who have some good and some bad. Depending on your outlook of course.

3) Americans must back off. Just a bit. Seriously, now it's called an invasion in disguise of a war. I have no qualms with Americans. And hopefully, never will.

4) In all technicality, yes. Pardon if it offended anyone but the reason they were closed in the first place was so that corruption couldn't spread there. Of course, the Internet makes that law redundant but still.

 

[Grand_Arcana]

homophobic

Wrong. We are meant to to tolerant to everyone. Even gays. That doesn't who they are, what religion do they pratise and so on and so forth. True that Islam is against Homosexuality. But that shouldn't stop Muslims from being tolerant. Heck, there are even gay Muslims.

Glad to hear you feel that way, but would you say that the general population feel the same way based upon their actions? I'm not trying to paint a target on you, I'm just curious. I'm part of a generally homophobic demographic myself.

 

[mParadox]

Glad to hear you feel that way, but would you say that the general population feel the same way based upon their actions? I'm not trying to paint a target on you, I'm just curious. I'm part of a generally homophobic demographic myself.

If anything, Pakistan is getting more tolerant towards them. It's particularly obvious in the big cities like Lahore and Karachi. Where gay parties are held, and nobody is really bothered by it.

 

[ScourgeOfHell]

Ok First of all, forcing someone to accept Islam, is utterly and completely forbidden in our religion, as is forcing anyone to accept Islamic morals. Like I said, when someone wants to cause havoc, they'll find any number of excuses to do so. Texts like the Quran, can be easily slanted to prove anything, or incriminate anyone, and hey, in my neighborhood in Karachi, there's an annual gay party, publicly advertised, so you cant say pople in Pakistan aren't getting over homophobia.