Do you include the delivery fee in with the tip?

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

And you should have sympahty becuase they do not make minimum wage, they make about 3.75-4.75 an hour. The tips are meant to cover the difference. I mentioned in my post that I think the employer is meant to cover the difference if they don't make minimum wage, but I can't be sure. If you live in the U.K. just dismiss this last part.

How can someone be paid below the "minimum" wage? Isn't the "minimum" in minimum wage supposed to imply that one's salary cannot be below it? If an employer is paying below minimum wage, isn't that against the law? If someone is paid below minimum wage, their employer is in breach of minimum wage laws.

 

[Elfgore]

If I pay a delivery fee, I don't pay a tip. I've already paid for the service so there is no extra service being provided that warrants a tip.

IF you live in the US I strongly recommend you NEVER order from the same place twice...

Would you explain why? I am sure everyone is curious about what would happen.

Anywhere from slower service to... "extras" added to your pizza. I personally would never do that but if I knew someone I was delivering/serving didn't tip at all I would certainly take my sweet ass time getting to them cause literally everyone else would be ahead of them in my eyes. Anyone who doesn't tip has clearly never worked in a tip subsidized job. I personally think companies should pay at LEAST minimum wage so people don't have to tip, but that's unfortunately not the world we live in. So if you don't tip someone it's the equivalent of saying "Naw I don't think you should eat today."

So you condone bad service to people who don't give you extra money? This is the problem with mandatory tips, it's no longer about rewarding good service but rather about preventing bad service.

I want to know more about these "extras" added to the pizza. Tell us more about why we should have sympathy for delivery drivers.

Do you live in the U.S.? If you do you are almost always expected to tip. It's just the way it is. By extras, they mean spit and maybe some small trash off the floor or hair. And you should have sympahty becuase they do not make minimum wage, they make about 3.75-4.75 an hour. The tips are meant to cover the difference. I mentioned in my post that I think the employer is meant to cover the difference if they don't make minimum wage, but I can't be sure. If you live in the U.K. just dismiss this last part.

Yes, people who would grossly damage your food because you don't give a tip are supposed to be sympathetic? Wow! Surely it isn't legal to damage food in that manner.

So if the employer makes up the difference up to min wage then drivers do make atleast min wage. I'll look into that.

Well, not everyone in the food service would do that. But if you have a younger driver, I'd suggest at least given him a dollar to prevent future spit in your food. The act may not be illegal, but if you could get proof they did so purposefully, you could probably sue. For the sympathy part, I mean the guy who is in his twenties trying to go through college with a less than minimum wage job. Not the sixteen year old kid who wants a job to buy booze and weed, who is most likely the one to spit in your food.

 

[WeepingAngels]

If I pay a delivery fee, I don't pay a tip. I've already paid for the service so there is no extra service being provided that warrants a tip.

IF you live in the US I strongly recommend you NEVER order from the same place twice...

Would you explain why? I am sure everyone is curious about what would happen.

Anywhere from slower service to... "extras" added to your pizza. I personally would never do that but if I knew someone I was delivering/serving didn't tip at all I would certainly take my sweet ass time getting to them cause literally everyone else would be ahead of them in my eyes. Anyone who doesn't tip has clearly never worked in a tip subsidized job. I personally think companies should pay at LEAST minimum wage so people don't have to tip, but that's unfortunately not the world we live in. So if you don't tip someone it's the equivalent of saying "Naw I don't think you should eat today."

So you condone bad service to people who don't give you extra money? This is the problem with mandatory tips, it's no longer about rewarding good service but rather about preventing bad service.

I want to know more about these "extras" added to the pizza. Tell us more about why we should have sympathy for delivery drivers.

Do you live in the U.S.? If you do you are almost always expected to tip. It's just the way it is. By extras, they mean spit and maybe some small trash off the floor or hair. And you should have sympahty becuase they do not make minimum wage, they make about 3.75-4.75 an hour. The tips are meant to cover the difference. I mentioned in my post that I think the employer is meant to cover the difference if they don't make minimum wage, but I can't be sure. If you live in the U.K. just dismiss this last part.

Yes, people who would grossly damage your food because you don't give a tip are supposed to be sympathetic? Wow! Surely it isn't legal to damage food in that manner.

So if the employer makes up the difference up to min wage then drivers do make atleast min wage. I'll look into that.

Well, not everyone in the food service would do that. But if you have a younger driver, I'd suggest at least given him a dollar to prevent future spit in your food. The act may not be illegal, but if you could get proof they did so purposefully, you could probably sue. For the sympathy part, I mean the guy who is in his twenties trying to go through college with a less than minimum wage job. Not the sixteen year old kid who wants a job to buy booze and weed, who is most likely the one to spit in your food.

Pay an extra fee to avoid having your food spit on, it's absurd.

 

[Elfgore]

And you should have sympahty becuase they do not make minimum wage, they make about 3.75-4.75 an hour. The tips are meant to cover the difference. I mentioned in my post that I think the employer is meant to cover the difference if they don't make minimum wage, but I can't be sure. If you live in the U.K. just dismiss this last part.

How can someone be paid below the "minimum" wage? Isn't the "minimum" in minimum wage supposed to imply that one's salary cannot be below it? If an employer is paying below minimum wage, isn't that against the law? If someone is paid below minimum wage, their employer is in breach of minimum wage laws.

I'll admit, I do not know how they get away with it. But I have several friends, in several different food service jobs as waiters and drivers, who make less than minimum wage. It must be legal, but I'll gladly admit ignorance on the matter.

My best guess would be that the tips are a chance to make more than minimum wage. I also said, I think the employers have to cover the difference if they do not make minimum wage. Since my friends always make more with tips, I can't say for certain.

 

[Elfgore]

If I pay a delivery fee, I don't pay a tip. I've already paid for the service so there is no extra service being provided that warrants a tip.

IF you live in the US I strongly recommend you NEVER order from the same place twice...

Would you explain why? I am sure everyone is curious about what would happen.

Anywhere from slower service to... "extras" added to your pizza. I personally would never do that but if I knew someone I was delivering/serving didn't tip at all I would certainly take my sweet ass time getting to them cause literally everyone else would be ahead of them in my eyes. Anyone who doesn't tip has clearly never worked in a tip subsidized job. I personally think companies should pay at LEAST minimum wage so people don't have to tip, but that's unfortunately not the world we live in. So if you don't tip someone it's the equivalent of saying "Naw I don't think you should eat today."

So you condone bad service to people who don't give you extra money? This is the problem with mandatory tips, it's no longer about rewarding good service but rather about preventing bad service.

I want to know more about these "extras" added to the pizza. Tell us more about why we should have sympathy for delivery drivers.

Do you live in the U.S.? If you do you are almost always expected to tip. It's just the way it is. By extras, they mean spit and maybe some small trash off the floor or hair. And you should have sympahty becuase they do not make minimum wage, they make about 3.75-4.75 an hour. The tips are meant to cover the difference. I mentioned in my post that I think the employer is meant to cover the difference if they don't make minimum wage, but I can't be sure. If you live in the U.K. just dismiss this last part.

Yes, people who would grossly damage your food because you don't give a tip are supposed to be sympathetic? Wow! Surely it isn't legal to damage food in that manner.

So if the employer makes up the difference up to min wage then drivers do make atleast min wage. I'll look into that.

Well, not everyone in the food service would do that. But if you have a younger driver, I'd suggest at least given him a dollar to prevent future spit in your food. The act may not be illegal, but if you could get proof they did so purposefully, you could probably sue. For the sympathy part, I mean the guy who is in his twenties trying to go through college with a less than minimum wage job. Not the sixteen year old kid who wants a job to buy booze and weed, who is most likely the one to spit in your food.

Pay an extra fee to avoid having your food spit on, it's absurd.

I'm pretty sure an Arby's employee spat in my food after I asked for another sandwich, since there was pretty much no meat on the thing. It cost like six bucks, so I was getting my money's worth. I agree it is absurd, but the food service biz is filled with younger people. Most are immature and irrational. "Oh, that bastard didn't tip me. I'm totally going to spit in his food next time." Is it right, hell no. Is it the way things are, sadly yes.

This may just be in my area, since the closest town is a ghetto filled hellhole. Most people working in the food business are hoods.

 

[WeepingAngels]

I found this:

Thus, effective July 24, 2008, when the minimum wage increased to $6.55 per hour, an employer may pay as little as $2.13 an hour to tipped employees, which remained the same when the minimum wage increased to $7.25 per hour on July 24, 2009, as long as each employee receives enough in tips to make up the difference between the wages paid and the minimum wage.

Employers must pay more than the hourly cash wage if the tipped employee earns less than the credit in tips per hour, as it is the employer?s responsibility to make sure that all tipped employees earn at least the minimum wage in cash wages and tips.

http://www.nclabor.com/wh/fact%20sheets/minimum_wage_in_NC.htm

North Carolina but similar probably applies to all states. If the tips don't make up the gap then the employer must make up the gap. In other words, pizza drivers do make atleast min wage and most importantly, if everyone stopped tipping, the employer would have to pay more.

 

[theNater]

Here's what would happen if people stopped tipping pizza drivers. Fewer and fewer people would be willing or able to deliver pizza and that would force employers to:

1) Pay the drivers min wage at the least

2) Give the delivery fee to the driver

3) Stop offering pizza delivery

I don't see how any of these help me, as a customer, at all. If they go for the first two, they're going to increase the price of the pizza or the delivery fee to cover the costs, and if they go for the third, I just can't get delivery.

One benefit to having tipping be flexible is that it allows different people to pay different amounts. If somebody can't afford to tip much or at all, and somebody else is able to tip exorbitantly, everybody gets their food and the drivers get a decent income overall. You can think of your tip as subsidizing the delivery for somebody who isn't as well-off as you are.

 

[shootthebandit]

Because these people don't have the lobby in America that the companies have. I'm out of here, you either
A) Don't tip because you don't think you should have to (In which case I agree you shouldn't have to BUT YOU DO) or
B) Don't care about these people being able to live.

FINAL POST: I don't think companies should be allowed to pay their workers so disgustingly little but they do, that's partially why the food is cheap. So until things change tipping is basically mandatory.

Im not trying to be confrontational so I dont see why you are so hasty to leave. I actually agree with you

all I was saying is that instead of punishing the customer instead try a different avenue which can actually start a change.

You get delivery drivers and waiters to picket restraunts and encourage customers to boycott these establishments until the government starts paying a decent wage.

You said "until things change". Things cannot change unless someone does something about it. Spitting in peoples food and generally being an arsehole with a customer is not going to change anything

Even if you lobby the government and nothing happens it at least raises awareness and customers will think "maybe i should be giving these guys a bit more". Its better to have tried than to sit there and "make do" with things the way they are

 

[Bluestorm83]

I couldn't include a delivery fee along with the tip, since I assume that the owner is actually using the delivery fee to bolster his own profits. I mean, who institutes a new charge and then gives it away?

But at the same time, I try and tip pretty well since I've got a tough job with low pay and have learned to really appreciate people who tip.

I think that the gray area here is big enough for you to come to your own conclusion. Or, if you wanted, you can ask when you order where the delivery charge goes. If it goes to the driver, keep on with the smaller tips. If it goes to the house, you may want to increase.

One thing I absolutely DESPISE is any place that adds "gratuity" onto the bill. That's absolute BS. If you want to pay your employee an hourly wage, raise your rates and simply mark the menu "Tipping is not necessary, as all our waiters are paid full wages." It's nobody else's place to decide if I'm going to give a servant an extra gift of money. I mean, that's what a tip is, you know. Someone has willingly become your servant, and if you feel the desire you reward them for that fine service with money that they are not ENTITLED to, but that you feel they've earned. I don't eat anywhere that includes gratuity. It just seems like bad business, to me.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Here's what would happen if people stopped tipping pizza drivers. Fewer and fewer people would be willing or able to deliver pizza and that would force employers to:

1) Pay the drivers min wage at the least

2) Give the delivery fee to the driver

3) Stop offering pizza delivery

I don't see how any of these help me, as a customer, at all. If they go for the first two, they're going to increase the price of the pizza or the delivery fee to cover the costs, and if they go for the third, I just can't get delivery.

One benefit to having tipping be flexible is that it allows different people to pay different amounts. If somebody can't afford to tip much or at all, and somebody else is able to tip exorbitantly, everybody gets their food and the drivers get a decent income overall. You can think of your tip as subsidizing the delivery for somebody who isn't as well-off as you are.

I see a value in no hidden fees. I don't mind paying a delivery fee, I just don't want to pay it twice and I want to know the full price BEFORE I place an order.

 

[Elfgore]

I found this:

Thus, effective July 24, 2008, when the minimum wage increased to $6.55 per hour, an employer may pay as little as $2.13 an hour to tipped employees, which remained the same when the minimum wage increased to $7.25 per hour on July 24, 2009, as long as each employee receives enough in tips to make up the difference between the wages paid and the minimum wage.

Employers must pay more than the hourly cash wage if the tipped employee earns less than the credit in tips per hour, as it is the employer?s responsibility to make sure that all tipped employees earn at least the minimum wage in cash wages and tips.

http://www.nclabor.com/wh/fact%20sheets/minimum_wage_in_NC.htm

North Carolina but similar probably applies to all states. If the tips don't make up the gap then the employer must make up the gap. In other words, pizza drivers do make atleast min wage and most importantly, if everyone stopped tipping, the employer would have to pay more.

I find that very hard to believe. Most minimum wage jobs are skill less. They could easily be replaced by the next guy. To get higher wages, most likely they would have to unionize. Then the employer fires everyone who tries to unionize and then hires up the next batch of people and with the job market they way it is. People will be lined up to get that job.

 

[WeepingAngels]

I found this:

Thus, effective July 24, 2008, when the minimum wage increased to $6.55 per hour, an employer may pay as little as $2.13 an hour to tipped employees, which remained the same when the minimum wage increased to $7.25 per hour on July 24, 2009, as long as each employee receives enough in tips to make up the difference between the wages paid and the minimum wage.

Employers must pay more than the hourly cash wage if the tipped employee earns less than the credit in tips per hour, as it is the employer?s responsibility to make sure that all tipped employees earn at least the minimum wage in cash wages and tips.

http://www.nclabor.com/wh/fact%20sheets/minimum_wage_in_NC.htm

North Carolina but similar probably applies to all states. If the tips don't make up the gap then the employer must make up the gap. In other words, pizza drivers do make atleast min wage and most importantly, if everyone stopped tipping, the employer would have to pay more.

I find that very hard to believe. Most minimum wage jobs are skill less. They could easily be replaced by the next guy. To get higher wages, most likely they would have to unionize. Then the employer fires everyone who tries to unionize and then hires up the next batch of people and with the job market they way it is. People will be lined up to get that job.

So it's the law but you believe long running pizza franchises just disregard the law?

 

[TakerFoxx]

So I usually tip $3 for pizza delivery but once you add in the $1.75 delivery fee, I end up tipping almost $5. That's too much for a $21 dollar order. Today though, I decided to pay $3 including the delivery fee. So $1.25 tip plus $1.75 delivery fee.

How do you guys handle it, if you tip at all?

I don't usually tip, because to my mind that's what the delivery charge is there for, but once for a game night we ordered so much pizza the delivery guy had to make three trips up to my flat, so I gave them a tenner.

If I pay a delivery fee, I don't pay a tip. I've already paid for the service so there is no extra service being provided that warrants a tip.

Alrighty, I don't know where you guys live or how things work over there, but speaking as a delivery driver, let me point a few things out to you.

First of all, the driver doesn't doesn't get the delivery fee, or if they do, it's a very small fraction for gas mileage (which, more often than not doesn't cover the cost of the trip). The way it was explained to me is that the delivery free is for insurance reasons, as simply by being on the road drivers represent a liability for the company and therefore raises their liability insurances rates. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but generally, the lion's share (probably all) of the delivery charge goes to the company, not the driver.

Also, refusing to tip the driver won't "buck the system." That's some Reservoir Dogs bullshit. For one, the company doesn't care if the drivers get stiffed. They've gotten their payment. And you'll never get enough people to agree to go along with it to get noticed. All you'll do is hurt drivers like me.

Now granted, tipping is voluntary, and I for one would never deliberately stall an order or mess it up because you're a known stiffer (though I might consider if you're also always rude on top of it. Won't do it, but it'll be damned tempting), nor do I know anyone that does. But even so, gas costs me upwards around 90 dollars a week, car repairs are expensive, and we did just drive you your food straight to your front door. So, unless the driver is a jerk or something down those lines, would it be too much to ask that you just slip them a couple bucks for their time?

 

[Elfgore]

I found this:

Thus, effective July 24, 2008, when the minimum wage increased to $6.55 per hour, an employer may pay as little as $2.13 an hour to tipped employees, which remained the same when the minimum wage increased to $7.25 per hour on July 24, 2009, as long as each employee receives enough in tips to make up the difference between the wages paid and the minimum wage.

Employers must pay more than the hourly cash wage if the tipped employee earns less than the credit in tips per hour, as it is the employer?s responsibility to make sure that all tipped employees earn at least the minimum wage in cash wages and tips.

http://www.nclabor.com/wh/fact%20sheets/minimum_wage_in_NC.htm

North Carolina but similar probably applies to all states. If the tips don't make up the gap then the employer must make up the gap. In other words, pizza drivers do make atleast min wage and most importantly, if everyone stopped tipping, the employer would have to pay more.

I find that very hard to believe. Most minimum wage jobs are skill less. They could easily be replaced by the next guy. To get higher wages, most likely they would have to unionize. Then the employer fires everyone who tries to unionize and then hires up the next batch of people and with the job market they way it is. People will be lined up to get that job.

So it's the law but you believe long running pizza franchises just disregard the law?

Wait a second. I'm a little confused here. So we now know that employers must cover the difference if the employee does not make minimum wage with tips. But in your post did you mean higher wages as in like 8.50 an hour instead of the current minimum wage of 7.95? Or just make their wage 7.95 instead of the 3.95 or whatever and get rid of tipping?

If it's the former, that won't work. They'll be fired if they try anything. The latter I agree with and would like to see happen. Making tipping something purely optional for exceptional service.

 

[WeepingAngels]

I found this:

Thus, effective July 24, 2008, when the minimum wage increased to $6.55 per hour, an employer may pay as little as $2.13 an hour to tipped employees, which remained the same when the minimum wage increased to $7.25 per hour on July 24, 2009, as long as each employee receives enough in tips to make up the difference between the wages paid and the minimum wage.

Employers must pay more than the hourly cash wage if the tipped employee earns less than the credit in tips per hour, as it is the employer?s responsibility to make sure that all tipped employees earn at least the minimum wage in cash wages and tips.

http://www.nclabor.com/wh/fact%20sheets/minimum_wage_in_NC.htm

North Carolina but similar probably applies to all states. If the tips don't make up the gap then the employer must make up the gap. In other words, pizza drivers do make atleast min wage and most importantly, if everyone stopped tipping, the employer would have to pay more.

I find that very hard to believe. Most minimum wage jobs are skill less. They could easily be replaced by the next guy. To get higher wages, most likely they would have to unionize. Then the employer fires everyone who tries to unionize and then hires up the next batch of people and with the job market they way it is. People will be lined up to get that job.

So it's the law but you believe long running pizza franchises just disregard the law?

Wait a second. I'm a little confused here. So we now know that employers must cover the difference if the employee does not make minimum wage with tips. But in your post did you mean higher wages as in like 8.50 an hour instead of the current minimum wage of 7.95? Or just make their wage 7.95 instead of the 3.95 or whatever and get rid of tipping?

If it's the former, that won't work. They'll be fired if they try anything. The latter I agree with and would like to see happen. Making tipping something purely optional for exceptional service.

The way I understand it is that a driver must make atleast the min wage ($7.25/hour I think) with their tips included or the employer must make up the difference.

8 hour shift @ $7.25/hour = $58 (non tipped employee)
8 hour shift @ $2.13/hour = $17.04 (tipped employee)

That means that if the driver doesn't make $40.96 in tips in the 8 hour period then the employer has to pay the driver the difference up to $58.

That's how I read it and that makes sense. If the driver makes more than the min wage, then they just keep the extra. I am not joining the pizza driver pity party.

Now granted, tipping is voluntary, and I for one would never deliberately stall an order or mess it up because you're a known stiffer (though I might consider if you're also always rude on top of it. Won't do it, but it'll be damned tempting), nor do I know anyone that does. But even so, gas costs me upwards around 90 dollars a week, car repairs are expensive, and we did just drive you your food straight to your front door. So, unless the driver is a jerk or something down those lines, would it be too much to ask that you just slip them a couple bucks for their time?

That's why I like the idea of a card that'll educate you on why tipping is bad and urge you to talk to your employer about it. It shows that we're united, that there are many of us, and that it's nothing personal.

Couldn't we stand slipping you a couple of bucks? Couldn't you stand talking to your employer?

I like the idea of a card.

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

So I usually tip $3 for pizza delivery but once you add in the $1.75 delivery fee, I end up tipping almost $5. That's too much for a $21 dollar order. Today though, I decided to pay $3 including the delivery fee. So $1.25 tip plus $1.75 delivery fee.

How do you guys handle it, if you tip at all?

I don't usually tip, because to my mind that's what the delivery charge is there for, but once for a game night we ordered so much pizza the delivery guy had to make three trips up to my flat, so I gave them a tenner.

If I pay a delivery fee, I don't pay a tip. I've already paid for the service so there is no extra service being provided that warrants a tip.

Alrighty, I don't know where you guys live or how things work over there, but speaking as a delivery driver, let me point a few things out to you.

First of all, the driver doesn't doesn't get the delivery fee, or if they do, it's a very small fraction for gas mileage (which, more often than not doesn't cover the cost of the trip). The way it was explained to me is that the delivery free is for insurance reasons, as simply by being on the road drivers represent a liability for the company and therefore raises their liability insurances rates. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but generally, the lion's share (probably all) of the delivery charge goes to the company, not the driver.

Also, refusing to tip the driver won't "buck the system." That's some Reservoir Dogs bullshit. For one, the company doesn't care if the drivers get stiffed. They've gotten their payment. And you'll never get enough people to agree to go along with it to get noticed. All you'll do is hurt drivers like me.

Now granted, tipping is voluntary, and I for one would never deliberately stall an order or mess it up because you're a known stiffer (though I might consider if you're also always rude on top of it. Won't do it, but it'll be damned tempting), nor do I know anyone that does. But even so, gas costs me upwards around 90 dollars a week, car repairs are expensive, and we did just drive you your food straight to your front door. So, unless the driver is a jerk or something down those lines, would it be too much to ask that you just slip them a couple bucks for their time?

UK based, so the driver gets paid a wage like everyone else, also they use company vans/bikes so gas etc comes from the business not their own pocket. In fact, most delivery guys I've had actually carried one of those little bank coin bags and tend to automatically give you change. Often I tell them to keep it, but i like that that doing so is a genuine gesture on my part, not forced on me by the system.

Basically, in my country all employees get the same deal, so the deliverer is no different to the chef and I've covered those costs by paying the delivery fee. I know that if I went to the US, I'd have to tip. But I'm not in the US, nor am I likely to be able to go in the foreseeable future, so it's moot.

edit:

snip

In fairness, I think the US doesn't have great employment rights, so if you went to your boss and said "pay me extra because I wasn't tipped", they'd say "Well then you're clearly shit, you're fired."

 

[TakerFoxx]

That's why I like the idea of a card that'll educate you on why tipping is bad and urge you to talk to your employer about it. It shows that we're united, that there are many of us, and that it's nothing personal.

Couldn't we stand slipping you a couple of bucks? Couldn't you stand talking to your employer?

Talk to my employer about what? Why they should pay us more? I'll just get told to go find another job. And seeing how I like my job (flexible hours and I enjoy driving and the people I work with) I'm not in a hurry to go do that. Especially since I was unemployed for about a year and a half after my last job closed down and almost went broke in that time. Finding a new job is hard, and thanks to Asperger's and a bit of a speech impediment that really kicks in when I'm nervous, I don't do interviews well, and only got this job because my cousin was working here and put in a good word for me. I'll stick with driving for the time being, thanks.

So if you're not going to tip, then don't tip. That's your business. But don't act like you're doing us a favor by "fighting against the system," because I and every single other delivery driver finds that attitude insulting. Keep your card, thanks.

 

[Firstmark_Bannor]

That's why I like the idea of a card that'll educate you on why tipping is bad and urge you to talk to your employer about it. It shows that we're united, that there are many of us, and that it's nothing personal.

Couldn't we stand slipping you a couple of bucks? Couldn't you stand talking to your employer?

I dare you try unionizing in North Carolina. You'll be fired and effectively black listed (unemployable anywhere). I would love to unionize but it's illegal here. So tipping is not only a good thing, it really is the only way a lot of people here will be able to make ends meet.

 

[WeepingAngels]

In fairness, I think the US doesn't have great employment rights, so if you went to your boss and said "pay me extra because I wasn't tipped", they'd say "Well then you're clearly shit, you're fired."

As we have been discussing, the employer is supposed to make up the difference up to min wage. So atleast in one state (likely mot of the others too, if not all) delivery drivers never make below min wage, by law.

 

[Vegosiux]

I dare you try unionizing in North Carolina. You'll be fired and effectively black listed (unemployable anywhere). I would love to unionize but it's illegal here. So tipping is not only a good thing, it really is the only way a lot of people here will be able to make ends meet.

I'm not going to go saying that participating in this tipping culture you're responsible for the problem or part of it. In fact, if you're willing to cover for someone else who's getting screwed over by a third party, more power to you.

But, in the long run, this simply isn't going to improve the situation at the bottom of the proverbial barrel. Now, collective effort, collective pressure on the powers that be that something needs to be changed, fixed, isn't easy, nor is it going to just turn things around overnight. Still, "the way things are", the way the bottom rung service employees are effectively constantly held in fear, under the everlooming threat of being left jobless and left to rely on the goodwill of the consumer instead of being paid fairly by those who should be paying them in the first place, that's not healthy at all.

It's actually oppression. It's fear tactics. It's keeping a segment of population repressed through threat of even worse poverty and misery should they dare to fight for what they should have a right to. Eventually, the people will have to band together and put some political pressure where it's due instead of letting themselves get screwed over because they could have been screwed even more badly if they stuck their head out.

In the long run, this way of letting the business owners siphon wealth from the economy simply isn't sustainable.