Do you think relationships between close friends can work (and am I in the friend-zone)?

[Legion]

Relationships between close friends absolutely work, but only when both are looking for the same thing, when you may not be.
It doesn't sound to me like she is into you, or she'd probably have said something when she found out that you were crushing on her.
You have a few options, really, you can ask her out, stop being friends with her or just commit to being her friend.
She probably wont change her mind if you've told her you're no longer crushing on her and are just being her friend (you kinda friendzoned yourself there).
Still, go for it. Let her know how you feel.
If she feels the same, cool, if not, at least you were honest about it.

This.

I have never understood why some people tell somebody they have feelings for that they don't, especially when it comes up, as it's basically saved you having to pluck up the courage to do so. Although that's probably because I did that in my teens and wanted the ground to swallow me up...

Anyway, as Phasmal said, if you genuinely feel like you are in love with her then you are only harming yourself if you keep it locked up. For starters because you are naturally not going to feel happy only being friends with somebody you care so much about.

Then there is the fact that as long as you keep it to yourself, if she did feel the same way but assume you didn't (as you told her) she may find somebody else, and most people I imagine know how agonising that is.

Then there is the fact that it's generally just better and healthier to let people know where they stand with you. If you are secretly in love but keep acting like friends, then the chances are you are occasionally going to have awkward situations (like if she asks if there's anybody you like), and that's going to cause tension.

You are better off telling her, and letting her say what she feels. If she feels the same, fantastic. If she doesn't then you need to decide whether you can still remain close friends with those feelings. If not then obviously it's your choice, but you'd be better off distancing yourself unless you honestly feel that you can carry on as just friends without any tension. Please don't make the mistake of hanging onto hoping "she'll change her mind and see how wonderful I am", it's not going to do you any favours, and you may push her away. Another foolish mistake I made when younger.

 

[Darken12]

Whoa, 'lying and emotionally manipulating her to get into her pants'?! I lied to her when I told her I didn't have feelings for her, yes. The reason, however, was NOT to get her into bed. It was a) to spare her feeling bad because she thought she had led me on, and b) because I valued our friendship and thought I could maintain it and forget about my feelings for her. The only reason things have changed is because my feelings have become a lot stronger. Calling me a 'predator' is just ridiculous.

And how do we know that for sure? More importantly, how does she know that? How can she trust you after you've been lying to her about your feelings? After all, if you were trying to get into her pants, that's exactly what you'd say then too. If you were a predator, you'd try to cover up your lying by casting your actions into an excusable light.

My point isn't your true reason. Nobody knows the truth on that matter but yourself. My point is how your actions look from an external perspective. Even if your underlying rationale isn't predatory, you are still acting predatory by lying to her about your feelings and continuing a friendship while keeping important information from her. It is unreasonable to ask us or her to take your word for it when you assure us your intentions weren't predatory. The correct course of action here is to distance yourself from this woman until you no longer have any feelings for her. That is what a predator would never do, and that is what an innocent person would do when confronted with inadvertently creepy behaviour.

Your feelings don't matter as much as her trust. She gave you her trust and it is your duty never to betray it.

 

[IronMit]

Make some sort of move-ask her out on an official date or something (leave out the 'I love you' part).
If she rejects you considering pulling away a bit or entirely....


...I say this because when she eventually starts dating another guy you're going to have to distance yourself a bit or a lot anyway...or you can be her best friend and see them together and listen to all her boy problems

Also you will have a better chance if you tell her...at least then she will think about it. If you get all defensive/deflective or quiet when the topic get brought up then she's going to actually believe you.

 

[Bloodstain]

If you enter a relationship with someone without being close friends with that person beforehand, you did something wrong. Relationships between close friends should be the only ones you enter. But that's just my view.

 

[Lilani]

In short: shake off the infatuation-induced blinders, please. And don't take this the wrong way, but the reason so many people vilify the 'nice guys' who befriend girls is precisely because they pull shit like lying and emotionally manipulating her to get into her pants. It's predatory and your feelings don't excuse dishonesty or hidden agendas.

Whoa, 'lying and emotionally manipulating her to get into her pants'?! I lied to her when I told her I didn't have feelings for her, yes. The reason, however, was NOT to get her into bed. It was a) to spare her feeling bad because she thought she had led me on, and b) because I valued our friendship and thought I could maintain it and forget about my feelings for her. The only reason things have changed is because my feelings have become a lot stronger. Calling me a 'predator' is just ridiculous.

I believe he's jumping onto the fact that you brought up the friend zone.

I explained the friend zone in my previous post, but there is a bit of a darker side to it that is legitimately frightening. Sometimes, you'll have a guy who is absolutely infatuated with a girl he's friends with, to the point where he is convinced that he is her soul mate and that nobody else is worthy of her. And he is so convinced of this that even in the face of rejection he will continue to pursue her and try to manipulate her out of any other relationships she pursues. Even if she completely rejects him and makes it clear that being with him will not make her happy, he persists in order to fulfill his selfish desire to have her. He's convinced himself that she's wrong and doesn't see how well they'd do together, and that all he has to do is keep at it and she'll eventually see the error in her ways.

That is the predation and emotional manipulation Darken12 was referring to. There is a thread in the advice forum that had a person such as this not long ago, but it's locked now so I don't think I should provide a link to it.

However that is clearly not the case with you, so just be warned to not use the "friend zone" so lightly next time. It is a very touchy issue on these boards, and not everybody recognizes that there are many levels and types of "friend zoning" (though in my opinion all of them can be solved by a bit of honesty and communication).

 

[theparsonski]

Whoa, 'lying and emotionally manipulating her to get into her pants'?! I lied to her when I told her I didn't have feelings for her, yes. The reason, however, was NOT to get her into bed. It was a) to spare her feeling bad because she thought she had led me on, and b) because I valued our friendship and thought I could maintain it and forget about my feelings for her. The only reason things have changed is because my feelings have become a lot stronger. Calling me a 'predator' is just ridiculous.

And how do we know that for sure? More importantly, how does she know that? How can she trust you after you've been lying to her about your feelings? After all, if you were trying to get into her pants, that's exactly what you'd say then too. If you were a predator, you'd try to cover up your lying by casting your actions into an excusable light.

My point isn't your true reason. Nobody knows the truth on that matter but yourself. My point is how your actions look from an external perspective. Even if your underlying rationale isn't predatory, you are still acting predatory by lying to her about your feelings and continuing a friendship while keeping important information from her. It is unreasonable to ask us or her to take your word for it when you assure us your intentions weren't predatory. The correct course of action here is to distance yourself from this woman until you no longer have any feelings for her. That is what a predator would never do, and that is what an innocent person would do when confronted with inadvertently creepy behaviour.

Your feelings don't matter as much as her trust. She gave you her trust and it is your duty never to betray it.

I'm not even going to bother answering that. You're right, you can't know that I'm not a predator, but it's kind of irrelevant isn't it? What I am is a guy who has feelings for his friend. If that is predatory then there's a helluva lot of creeps out there...

I'm hearing a lot of people saying I should just go for it. The only reason that I don't want to (other than the fact that I don't want to risk our friendship) is the fact that I may be shooting too soon. If I do blow it then it ruins the chance of anything ever happening between us, whereas if I am patient something great might grow out of it, even if I do end up with a lot of heartache along the way.

I believe he's jumping onto the fact that you brought up the friend zone.

I explained the friend zone in my previous post, but there is a bit of a darker side to it that is legitimately frightening. Sometimes, you'll have a guy who is absolutely infatuated with a girl he's friends with, to the point where he is convinced that he is her soul mate and that nobody else is worthy of her. And he is so convinced of this that even in the face of rejection he will continue to pursue her and try to manipulate her out of any other relationships she pursues. Even if she completely rejects him and makes it clear that being with him will not make her happy, he persists in order to fulfill his selfish desire to have her. He's convinced himself that she's wrong and doesn't see how well they'd do together, and that all he has to do is keep at it and she'll eventually see the error in her ways.

That is the predation and emotional manipulation Darken12 was referring to. There is a thread in the advice forum that had a person such as this not long ago, but it's locked now so I don't think I should provide a link to it.

However that is clearly not the case with you, so just be warned to not use the "friend zone" so lightly next time. It is a very touchy issue on these boards, and not everybody recognizes that there are many levels and types of "friend zoning" (though in my opinion all of them can be solved by a bit of honesty and communication).

AHAHAHAHAHA :') Well I can safely say that I am not in that position! When I say friendzone I mean the area where a girl would just disregard even the mere idea of a relationship with me because I'm too much of a 'friend'. Seriously, I'm like the exact opposite to that guy, I'm not worthy of her (my inferiority complex in relationships showing itself there), and if she told me it wouldn't work, I'd respect her feelings entirely. I'm not in danger of stalking her or trying to ruin her relationships or anything, that's just plain wrong. It's all her decision, she doesn't owe me a damn thing. Made me giggle though.

 

[Murais]

THE FRIEND ZONE DOES NOT EXIST.

If you're patient enough, and tenacious enough, you will break through. I promise. Just bear a few things in mind. Like, that she's a person with her own thoughts and feelings. And if she says back off, back off. Simple, common sense things.

However, if you don't pull the trigger, you'll regret it for a really long time and if you're not being honest with her, then you feel like she in some way doesn't deserve your honesty (whether you're afraid of what she'll do with it, or otherwise). That's not a great relationship foundation. Say something, be honest, and even if she says no, she'll respect you more.

Use your gut, and a little empathy, and you'll be golden.

I'm kinda getting contradictory messages from this post. You tell me to be patient, but you also tell me to let her know how I feel. What exactly do you mean? It's not that I'm not being honest with her. If she asked me straight up if I had feelings for her, I would tell her that I do. I just don't want to appear really forward or (God forbid) even weird by telling her that I like her. And it's not just that I'd ruin my friendship with her if I told her, she's also part of a really good group of friends I have, and I don't know how much that dynamic would be affected. So sure, going all-or-nothing has the best positive outcome, but it also has a really shit negative outcome.

No, its not contradictory. What I am saying is that if you're delaying telling her your feelings, you're not being honest. Your interactions are not being honest. You are acting as if you have feelings for her, and she may not clearly know that. Also, you yourself said that you told her that you worked through your New Year's feelings, which clearly, you haven't. That is dishonest. I'm not accusing you, but you do need to come to terms with it. And telling her how you feel and getting rejected in doing so shouldn't murder your friendship. You may have an awkward period out of it, but if you're as good of friends as you say you are, you guys should be hunkey dorey afterward.

My meaning of patience is to be patient with her reactions and emotions. Just because she says "no" once, doesn't mean it'll be the same forever, and she may simply not want a relationship with you now. Now, if she says "No, never" then you're better off moving on, and catharsis is something you're certainly capable of in that event.

To be honest, there's no "rules" here or definitive answers to your case. But you're not going to get anywhere and you're going to regret it greatly if you don't just pull the trigger and open yourself up.

 

[Darken12]

I'm not even going to bother answering that. You're right, you can't know that I'm not a predator, but it's kind of irrelevant isn't it? What I am is a guy who has feelings for his friend. If that is predatory then there's a helluva lot of creeps out there...

I'm hearing a lot of people saying I should just go for it. The only reason that I don't want to (other than the fact that I don't want to risk our friendship) is the fact that I may be shooting too soon. If I do blow it then it ruins the chance of anything ever happening between us, whereas if I am patient something great might grow out of it, even if I do end up with a lot of heartache along the way.

Firstly, you're missing my point. I'm not saying that having feelings for someone is predatory. I am saying that you are acting in the same way as a predator would. If a predator who had no feelings for that woman would befriend her to get into her pants, he would act exactly the same way you are doing right now. If you were a deranged person with feelings for her and wanted to emotionally manipulate her into returning those feelings for you, you would do the same thing you are doing right now. That's my point. It's not that your intentions aren't innocent, it's that your actions can easily be misconstrued.

Secondly, your second paragraph is unbelievably creepy. Please reread what you just typed right there. You are saying that you want to perpetuate a lie for your own benefit in the hopes that you can try and seduce her/confess your feelings/etc at the most opportune chance to maximise your odds of getting what you want. You are completely disregarding the perpetuation of a Bad Thing (lying to your friend) for your own selfish ends. When people are telling you to just go for it, they aren't validating your strategy of lying. They are telling you to come clean right now. Your idea of waiting is extremely creepy, as it seems to completely ignore the morality of you lying to her, while trying to calculate the act of coming clean not as something for ethics' sake, but as a tool to get what you want. See what I mean when I say this looks predatory?

You aren't supposed to come clean and confess your feelings because it might get you want you want, you are supposed to do it because lying to a friend is bad and you respect them too much to keep them in the dark over something that involves them. You are supposed to come clean to your friend not because she might feel the same way, but because she deserves the truth. That's the difference between predatory intentions and an innocent mistake. The predator doesn't care about her, has no respect for her, and doesn't care about what she might feel about being lied to. The innocent cares more about her and her comfort, trust and feelings than his own desires.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I'm hearing a lot of people saying I should just go for it. The only reason that I don't want to (other than the fact that I don't want to risk our friendship) is the fact that I may be shooting too soon. If I do blow it then it ruins the chance of anything ever happening between us, whereas if I am patient something great might grow out of it, even if I do end up with a lot of heartache along the way.

There's no such thing as shooting too soon, and you're heading down an extremely dark road by even thinking like this.

What's actually going to damage your prospects of ever being involved with someone is if they either think you're not interested in them or find out you lied about not being interested in them.

People don't work like this. People don't generally like it when you play games in the vain hope you'll end up with the upper hand. People like it when you are straightforward, when you are confident enough to know what you want and secure enough to be able to deal with their feelings no matter what those feelings are. People like it when they look at a situation and don't see how it could come back to bite them in the arse later on, and it sounds like you're making yourself look like trouble.

Feelings are far more likely to grow when you're honest and comfortable with them yourself. If you're not, why should anyone else be?

I know this situation is in every TV series ever, you always have the character who crushes on a friend but can't get the courage together to ever tell them how they really feel but then finally it all comes out and the recipient suddenly realizes in one single second that they're massively in love with the person who has been passively idolizing them for months etc. etc. The point is, TV lies. The reality is not like this. If people are going to develop feelings for you over time, it won't be because you hiding your feelings was cute, it will be because something has genuinely and mutually changed in your relationship. This can happen whether you've talked to someone about your feelings before or not, but it's far, far less likely to happen if you're not honest.

 

[theparsonski]

And how do we know that for sure? More importantly, how does she know that? How can she trust you after you've been lying to her about your feelings? After all, if you were trying to get into her pants, that's exactly what you'd say then too. If you were a predator, you'd try to cover up your lying by casting your actions into an excusable light.

My point isn't your true reason. Nobody knows the truth on that matter but yourself. My point is how your actions look from an external perspective. Even if your underlying rationale isn't predatory, you are still acting predatory by lying to her about your feelings and continuing a friendship while keeping important information from her. It is unreasonable to ask us or her to take your word for it when you assure us your intentions weren't predatory. The correct course of action here is to distance yourself from this woman until you no longer have any feelings for her. That is what a predator would never do, and that is what an innocent person would do when confronted with inadvertently creepy behaviour.

Your feelings don't matter as much as her trust. She gave you her trust and it is your duty never to betray it.

You got that OP? here, it'll help if you distill it down to the core points and write it onto a to-do list:

brb, engaging in self-abasement for not exalting this girl's trust above all personal feelings
brb, distancing myself from this girl indefinitely even though that would mean staying away from the mutual friends I mainly hang out with
brb, acting as if i have dissociative identity disorder and that my other identity is a rapist
brb, incorporating hyperbolic usages of the word "predator" and its various forms into my daily vocabulary


ya, great advice. OP, do the exact diametric opposite of wat mr. melodrama suggests here and do wat i said before: hangout with other girls for a week or so and make decisions from there.

also, fair guess to say that you're way too nice to this girl. liek if u touch her hand by accident, you'll probably apologize three times before running off to buy her favourite muffin or some shit to make amends. anywys u get wat im saying.

That made me grin quite a lot. Hopefully he'll realise how ridiculous he sounds. Yeah, I may do that. I want to tell her properly anyway so I'm going to have to wait till the next time I see her.

And yeah, I guess you could say that I'm like that, although not quite as extreme; I'd probably only apologise twice. But I know what you mean (although she isn't the kind of girl who would fall for an asshole).

I'm hearing a lot of people saying I should just go for it. The only reason that I don't want to (other than the fact that I don't want to risk our friendship) is the fact that I may be shooting too soon. If I do blow it then it ruins the chance of anything ever happening between us, whereas if I am patient something great might grow out of it, even if I do end up with a lot of heartache along the way.

There's no such thing as shooting too soon, and you're heading down an extremely dark road by even thinking like this.

What's actually going to damage your prospects of ever being involved with someone is if they either think you're not interested in them or find out you lied about not being interested in them.

People don't work like this. People don't generally like it when you play games in the vain hope you'll end up with the upper hand. People like it when you are straightforward, when you are confident enough to know what you want and secure enough to be able to deal with their feelings no matter what those feelings are. People like it when they look at a situation and don't see how it could come back to bite them in the arse later on, and it sounds like you're making yourself look like trouble.

Feelings are far more likely to grow when you're honest and comfortable with them yourself. If you're not, why should anyone else be?

I know this situation is in every TV series ever, you always have the character who crushes on a friend but can't get the courage together to ever tell them how they really feel but then finally it all comes out and the recipient suddenly realizes in one single second that they're massively in love with the person who has been passively idolizing them for months etc. etc. The point is, TV lies. The reality is not like this. If people are going to develop feelings for you over time, it won't be because you hiding your feelings was cute, it will be because something has genuinely and mutually changed in your relationship. This can happen whether you've talked to someone about your feelings before or not, but it's far, far less likely to happen if you're not honest.

You're absolutely right. I guess I was living with the hope that something would change at some point down the line, but that is A) far from a guarantee, and B) torture to live with.

There's no point continuing to lie to her, she deserves to know and I while I hate that it's come to this, it has, and I need to deal with it in the best way possible. Man, this has been really helpful!

 

[Jux]

Yes, perhaps I did dishonestly claim to not be attracted to her. However, while it partly was because I valued her friendship and wanted to maintain it, it was also because she genuinely believed she had led me on and felt terrible about it. And at that point it was still just a crush, it seemed a pretty harmless thing to do.

Was this the true motivation though? I was in a similiar situation many years back. And I also lied about my feelings, which at the time I told myself it was because I valued her friendship. Eventually I came to the realization that I lied because I was a coward. You need to be careful with things like this because we have a way of blinding ourselves to our own motives because we like seeing ourselves in the best light.

Good luck, but I just don't see this one working out.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Be completely and totally honest, if she likes you as a friend for real she won't drive you away just because you like her as long as you don't make it a recurring issue and be mature if she says no. Tell her about your complicated feelings. Say something like "I both like you in the platonic sense and in the sense that I fancy you. I value our friendship and don't want to alienate you, but if you are interested consider me a standing offer."

I had a similar situation with a woman last year, I developed feelings for her that weren't returned and honestly that crush ended up getting me a really good friendship, I don't fancy her anymore but I am still very fond of the woman and enjoy our conversations.

 

[Zen Toombs]

In my opinion, you have two legitimate choices and three stupid choices you should never do.

Legit choice 1: Ask her out. You will likely crash and burn, but don't feel bad about it. If she says no, move on and don't creepy-stalk.

Legit choice 2: Pursue other options. If something comes up in the future, so be it but you value your friendship with her too much to risk the plausible ruining of friendship because you asked when she didn't want it.

Dumb choice 1: Sit there patiently, waiting for her to realize how awesome you are together.

Dumb choice 2: Ask her out, and then get mad/sullen if she says no.

Dumb choice 3: Ask her out, and if she says no you keep following her around waiting for her to "come to her senses".

 

[theparsonski]

Yes, perhaps I did dishonestly claim to not be attracted to her. However, while it partly was because I valued her friendship and wanted to maintain it, it was also because she genuinely believed she had led me on and felt terrible about it. And at that point it was still just a crush, it seemed a pretty harmless thing to do.

Was this the true motivation though? I was in a similiar situation many years back. And I also lied about my feelings, which at the time I told myself it was because I valued her friendship. Eventually I came to the realization that I lied because I was a coward. You need to be careful with things like this because we have a way of blinding ourselves to our own motives because we like seeing ourselves in the best light.

Good luck, but I just don't see this one working out.

At the time she already knew that I was into her. If I'd been honest then I highly doubt we'd be such good friends right now. What you say is true, but I don't think what I did was borne out of cowardice. I mean, I am scared of what she's going to say, I'm scared of the inevitable disappointment, of course I am. However, it's not going to stop me.

Be completely and totally honest, if she likes you as a friend for real she won't drive you away just because you like her as long as you don't make it a recurring issue and be mature if she says no. Tell her about your complicated feelings. Say something like "I both like you in the platonic sense and in the sense that I fancy you. I value our friendship and don't want to alienate you, but if you are interested consider me a standing offer."

I had a similar situation with a woman last year, I developed feelings for her that weren't returned and honestly that crush ended up getting me a really good friendship, I don't fancy her anymore but I am still very fond of the woman and enjoy our conversations.

Of course. I'm fully expecting rejection, so the being mature if she says no won't be a problem. Hopefully she'll respect me for telling her and she'll be able to stay my friend. Now just to figure out the best way of going about it. I'll need to meet her at some point.

 

[theparsonski]

In my opinion, you have two legitimate choices and three stupid choices you should never do.

Legit choice 1: Ask her out. You will likely crash and burn, but don't feel bad about it. If she says no, move on and don't creepy-stalk.

Legit choice 2: Pursue other options. If something comes up in the future, so be it but you value your friendship with her too much to risk the plausible ruining of friendship because you asked when she didn't want it.

Dumb choice 1: Sit there patiently, waiting for her to realize how awesome you are together.

Dumb choice 2: Ask her out, and then get mad/sullen if she says no.

Dumb choice 3: Ask her out, and if she says no you keep following her around waiting for her to "come to her senses".

They are incredibly dumb choices. Don't you worry, it would be crazy for me to do any of those things, that just isn't me at all. Thanks man!

 

[Darken12]

You got that OP? here, it'll help if you distill it down to the core points and write it onto a to-do list:

brb, engaging in self-abasement for not exalting this girl's trust above all personal feelings
brb, distancing myself from this girl indefinitely even though that would mean staying away from the mutual friends I mainly hang out with
brb, acting as if i have dissociative identity disorder and that my other identity is a rapist
brb, incorporating hyperbolic usages of the word "predator" and its various forms into my daily vocabulary

You and I both know that I only said about one third of what you're suggesting here and that the rest is entirely of your own fabrication. For what purpose would you do this, I do not know. But I'll make it clear for anyone who might be fooled into thinking that's actually what I said:

1) You did get this one right. I do think that he should put that girl's trust above his own personal feelings. It's what friends do. You don't betray a friend's trust because you want to satisfy your desires and feelings. If you do that, you're a shitty friend, period.
2) I never said indefinitely or that it would involve staying away from mutual friends. That was all completely of your invention. You can easily reduce socialisation with someone while maintaining healthy friendships with mutual friends. Making small talk with them during parties or gatherings every so often is not incompatible with distancing yourself from them.
3) I never said anything even remotely similar to that. I said that his actions looked predatory from an external observer, not that he was one. It's entirely possible to accidentally do things that come off as creepy without meaning to, and I even acknowledged such a thing at least twice.
4) Yes, because goodness forbid we talk about how sometimes we can accidentally come off as creepy and make other people uncomfortable. No, clearly if anyone thinks that, they are being hyperbolic and unreasonable. Why try to become better people when we can just shush anyone who tries to point out things we can improve in ourselves?

For a start, can you just assume that I'm not a predator, and that you're not giving me advice on how to potentially murder and/or rape this girl? Theoreticising about the potential predator capacity of a poster on an internet forum does nobody any good, especially as I haven't shown any predatory behaviour.

How...? What...? Where...? How would I be giving you advice on anything like that? I am literally telling you to stop acting like you want to take advantage of her, not the other way around. Holy crap, way to completely and utterly miss my point.

Secondly, that is ridiculous. Creepy? Really? I am not telling her that I like her in order to spare both our feelings. I am continuing to be her friend (read: not stalker, hanger-on etc.) because her friendship means a lot to me. Yes, maybe I should tell her. Yes, maybe it is selfish of me not to, although I know that she values me as a friend and that it would hurt her too if we ended up not speaking anymore. Calling somebody who has feelings for his friend but doesn't want to risk telling her 'creepy' is extremely Puritan, and in all honesty you sound to me like a bit of a wanker mate. You obviously have some kind of superiority complex going on that makes you think that what I am doing is wrong and that it therefore makes we weird and predatory.

No, I think you have a reading comprehension problem or a penchant for being wilfully obtuse, since you keep assuming I'm saying things I'm not actually saying. I have repeatedly stated that I acknowledge that your intentions might not be predatory, but that I am focusing on your actions, which may look predatory to an outsider observer (and, more importantly, to this friend of yours). You know that intentions aren't the same as actions, right? That what's in your head isn't the same as the things you do, correct? And that we cannot see what's in your head so we have to react to the things you do, yes? I'm going to assume you understand all that and move on.

I will repeat myself: I am not judging your actual intentions. I acknowledge that you might have the purest and noblest intentions, but they do not matter at all when it comes to judging your actions from an external perspective. We cannot observe your intentions, we can only observe your actions. And your actions are compatible with someone with innocent intentions and with someone with predatory intentions. That is what I am saying, that if she wanted to assume that your intentions were predatory and take your lies as a personal betrayal, she would be justified in doing so because your intentions can be innocent or predatory.

I do respect her. A lot. And if she asked me straight if I had feelings for her, I would tell her straight that I do. But not telling her is hardly a terrible crime, and who the fuck do you know that just goes up and tells a girl he likes that he likes her? Because if they are 'predators' then I know a huge number of them.

Firstly, people who go up and tell a person that they have feelings for them are called "normal adults". It's what you do when you have feelings for a person. You sit down with them and you talk to them with honesty. Then you either ask them out or say that it's not going to get in the way of your friendship/work/acquaintanceship/etc and that you will attempt to find someone else instead.

Secondly, I have no idea how you derived the idea that confessing your feelings to someone is predatory. I said the exact opposite. The people who keep their agendas hidden while they befriend someone with ulterior motives are predators, not the people who come clean.

Basically, you're an idiot.

Your maturity astounds me.

EDIT:

*snip of excellency*

This is exactly what I meant. boots, as usual, has it completely right.

 

[The Funslinger]

Well, at the time that she believed she'd led me on, she did like someone else - her ex.

If you think that's why, then the best thing to do is just ask her out. Not like 'I LOVE YOU!' But ask her out on a date in a way that it's clearly a date. A date between two people who may or may not start doing the horizontal monster mash.

Better to do it now than let it simmer. Or you might end up being seen as one of those guys who just becomes friends with someone because she might touch your eruption button.

Basically, do it now or don't do it at all.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

[HEADING=1]Highway to the Friend-a-zone![/HEADING]

[sub][sub]I miss these threads [/sub][/sub]

Go for it dude.

Better to crash and burn than to be left pondering if it would have worked, just try not to come across as desperate, pile it on slow like.

[HEADING=1]Friend-a-zone![/HEADING]

Your use of h1 has significantly improved, and it makes reading your intellectual spurts of love and attention so much more palatable, no matter how crude, snarky or offensive.

However,

market research tells me there seems to be a disconnect between you and the bold. Bold is not happy about it.

 

[The Funslinger]

In my opinion, you have two legitimate choices and three stupid choices you should never do.

Legit choice 1: Ask her out. You will likely crash and burn, but don't feel bad about it. If she says no, move on and don't creepy-stalk.

Legit choice 2: Pursue other options. If something comes up in the future, so be it but you value your friendship with her too much to risk the plausible ruining of friendship because you asked when she didn't want it.

Dumb choice 1: Sit there patiently, waiting for her to realize how awesome you are together.

Dumb choice 2: Ask her out, and then get mad/sullen if she says no.

Dumb choice 3: Ask her out, and if she says no you keep following her around waiting for her to "come to her senses".

They are incredibly dumb choices. Don't you worry, it would be crazy for me to do any of those things, that just isn't me at all. Thanks man!

They do sound dumb but I've encountered people that genuinely executed them.

I had to explain to a girl how far gone one guy was when he actually tried to sabotage her relationship with her boyfriend at the time after being constantly rejected. And said 'friend' telling both of them their relationship wasn't going to last anyway.

Other amusing moments including the boyfriend stopping the guy getting into a massive drunken brawl with three people about twice his size. Guy then went on to be arsey to said boyfriend throughout the rest of the night.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Friendly relationships between friends can easily last a lifetime, ending only when one carrier of a brain and ideas ceases to be metabolically active.

Friendly relationships between friends that have occasional sexual intercourse can last a lifetime, ending only when one friend gets married, discovers religion or gets clobbered to death by a jealous partner.

Friendly relationships that get invaded by that evasive, funny little cuntmuffin called 'love' tend to break apart, explode or generally degenerate in the most astounding ways possible.

If you want it to be, if you want it to happen, there's really no advice or blah that can or should keep you from living your dream. Except the state of mind and ideas of that special friend of yours, that is.