DoA Dev Says Jiggle Physics Are Part of Japanese Culture

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I'm sorry are you trying to use possibly the worst book ever written to defend sexualisation?
Okay so in your view DOA is the same quality as Twilight? Good to know. I want to read Twilight about as much as I want to play DOA so yeah, I agree -.-

Also as to what you said before, no one is suggesting there are 'plump middle aged housewives in fighting games' that is just making shit up. What we ARE saying is that women can be attractive without being oversexualised.

Look at this redraw of red sonja.

Do you see how the image at the bottom looks about 1 million times more fitting to the subject matter but is STILL attractive.

Spoiler: Also this picture of Power Girl compared to how she is usually portrayed.

Why do men have such a problem with making women look like heroes and not pole dancers...

 

[Nurb]

That's because the target audience is a majority of men. But I'm sure women NEVER sexualize or objectify men in fiction or fantasy to appeal to an audience that is mostly women to sell a product, no no no.... oh wait...

To be fair, that is completely beside her point which was that "video games never sexualize men". There is plenty of sexism against both genders in various media, but games really don't do that, not that I remember any past or recent cases apart from the one I mentioned earlier.

Like I said, it's because the majority of players for this game are men. People can't pick one game or one industry to make a case against real world views of one gender, when it happens in forms of other entertainment another gender happen to like.

And it's all OK. There's nothing wrong with sexy members of the opposite gender in your fantasy or fiction no matter if you're oogling jiggle physics or shirtless guys on a movie poster, but it's not a basis for making a case about social problems.

The issue I take is that this has to be an issue at all

 

[Nurb]

snip

I'm sorry are you trying to use possibly the worse book ever written to defend sexualisation?
Okay so in your view DOA is the same quality as Twilight? Good to know. I want to read Twilight about as much as I want to play DOA so yeah, I agree -.-

Also as to what you said before, no one is suggesting there are 'plump middle aged housewives in fighting games' that is just making shit up. What we ARE saying is that women can be attractive without being oversexualised.

Look at this redraw of red sonja.

Why do men have such a problem with making women look like heroes and not pole dancers...

And why do women have such a problem with men enjoying their fantasies when women enjoy fantsies of men in the exact same manner? I posted that pic as an example of this, not comparing quality of the product. SOME women do love the twilight books and movies and they LOVE young shirtless teenage boys representing characters in their fiction. And that's just as OK as jiggle phsysics in a fictional video game.

There is nothing wrong with men and women enjoying sexy members of the opposite gender in fantasy! Leave people their video games and books, it's an escape from a shitty reality.

 

[wulf3n]

What makes something culture? is there a committee or board that decides if something's cultural or not?

and is it really part of Japanese culture? would the majority of Japan agree that jiggle physics are truly cultural?

... I don't know, sounds to me like the DoA dev is just saying "We want to make a game with big bouncy tits... so shut-up because culture!

 

[Polite Sage]

Okay so in your view DOA is the same quality as Twilight?

It pretty much is. DOA is a fantasy for lone, fat, male gamers, while Twilight is a fantasy for lone, fat, fan girls.
No need to make a shitstorm about either one of them.

Look at this redraw of red sonja.

Do you see how the image at the bottom looks about 1 million times more fitting to the subject matter but is STILL attractive.

I'm not familiar with the comic, but it also depends on it's audience and tone. Is it a serious story about life in a harsh cold world? Yeah, the lowest one is maybe the best. Is it a super heroine type comic aimed at young males? Either one is okay, but the first one attracts customers the most.

Why do men have such a problem with making women look like heroes and not pole dancers...

Money. And this too depends on the tone and target audience of the game in question.

Seriously, there is no need to make a fuss about a game that caters to lonely nerds. It's much worse if a serious game such as "Heavy Rain" or "Skyrim" portrays women as washing machines (hypothetical situation). Let virgins have their fun.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Yeah, only women have to put up with being objectified in nearly every aspect of the media and daily life and then when they sit down at home alone to play a video game to get away from it they have to put up with it there too!

YAY.

Money. And this too depends on the tone and target audience of the game in question.

Okay since most male gamers are white let's make a totally racist game! I suppose that's okay since you think that demographic is an excuse for sexism.

I spent £345 on games last month, I guess Team Ninja don't want my money huh so I will happily spend it elsewhere.

 

[neoontime]

Yes, I understand people overlook the boobs and enjoy them but some see them as a flaw for realism or feminism.

Well, feminism is an ideology and/or a political movement, so calling something a "flaw" for it is a pretty arrogant claim (not that I expect otherwise. q.v. my comment on arrogance above). On the other hand, this "realism" junk needs to go away. I've only ever played one "realistic" game, and I quit after 15 minutes.

"Desert Bus."

Every other game eschews "realism" for "fun."

Are you using what I said as an example or is this actually directed at me because if it's at me. I don't want to repeat the point I previously said. (Maybe I'm not typing it right)

 

[Tony2077]

snip

Yeah, only women have to put up with being objectified in nearly every aspect of the media and daily life and then when they sit down at home alone to play a video game to get away from it they have to put up with it there too!

YAY.

Money. And this too depends on the tone and target audience of the game in question.

Okay since most male gamers are white let's make a totally racist game! I suppose that's okay since you think that demographic is an excuse for sexism.

I spent £345 on games last month, I guess Team Ninja don't want my money huh so I will happily spend it elsewhere.

they won't miss it or you so do what you like

 

[-|-]

Okay since most male gamers are white let's make a totally racist game! I suppose that's okay since you think that demographic is an excuse for sexism.

What would the equivalent racism be? Having a black fighter with a huge cock hanging out I suppose.

 

[Nurb]

snip

I'm sorry are you trying to use possibly the worse book ever written to defend sexualisation?
Okay so in your view DOA is the same quality as Twilight? Good to know. I want to read Twilight about as much as I want to play DOA so yeah, I agree -.-

Also as to what you said before, no one is suggesting there are 'plump middle aged housewives in fighting games' that is just making shit up. What we ARE saying is that women can be attractive without being oversexualised.

Look at this redraw of red sonja.

Why do men have such a problem with making women look like heroes and not pole dancers...

And why do women have such a problem with men enjoying their fantasies when women enjoy fantsies of men in the exact same manner? I posted that pic as an example of this, not comparing quality of the product. SOME women do love the twilight books and movies and they LOVE young shirtless teenage boys representing characters in their fiction. And that's just as OK as jiggle phsysics in a fictional video game.

There is nothing wrong with men and women enjoying sexy members of the opposite gender in fantasy! Leave people their video games and books, it's an escape from a shitty reality.

Yeah, only women have to put up with being objectified in nearly every aspect of the media and daily life and then when they sit down at home alone to play a video game to get away from it they have to put up with it there too!

YAY.

I have a point, and you don't, so you resort to the usualy cry of perpetual victimhood.

And for the record, I find some of the tightly dressed men in the DoA series as attractive as some of the women characters... So what do you make of that?

 

[Polite Sage]

Money. And this too depends on the tone and target audience of the game in question.

Okay since most male gamers are white let's make a totally racist game! I suppose that's okay since you think that demographic is an excuse for sexism.

I spent £345 on games last month, I guess Team Ninja don't want my money huh so I will happily spend it elsewhere.

It's a bit different than you make out it to be.

Team Ninja didn't make this game to spite on women and actually doesn't think that women should be objectified in real life. And I don't think any male that plays this suddenly becomes a sexist. It's a quilty pleasure similar to masturbation. People who play these kind of games don't hate women or think them as pleasure tools. Of course there are people who DO THINK so, but that has more to do with their upbringing and right wing / uber religious media than anything else. The game doesn't say or try to convey that women should be treated differently.

Equating it to racism is stupid. More sane example would be Call of Duty that has you shooting up muslims/russians/nazis all day. The developers don't want to imply (at least I hope they don't) that the enemies are "less human", but press the point of "America, fuck yeah!". I don't like that at all, thus I don't play those games, but I don't go around blaming people who play them for actually wanting to shoot foreigners up.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I have a point, and you don't, so you resort to the usualy cry of perpetual victimhood.

And for the record, I find some of the tightly dressed men in the DoA series as attractive as some of the women characters... So what do you make of that?

Heh and you resort to telling me I'm 'crying victimhood' when I'm actually telling it like it is.

I noticed you completely ignored my post where I pointed out to you that women can be attractive without being heavily oversexualised. I guess the fact that you find the guys attractive proves that point.

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

Hayashi has a point. Reminds me of some of the texts I've read on Japanese culture and their view of themselves. Yeah they might seem like unemotional work-bots to us, but Japanese sexuality does exist. There is acceptance and praise of breasts, sex, and oddly enough water. Which through the bath culture is associated also with sex and beauty. Jiggling is Japanese, just saying, the breasts are flowing in a manner pleasing to the Japanese male gaze.

 

[Nuke_em_05]

I like this guy. I don't quite agree with his culture or tastes, but he doesn't give a fuck what I think; and that's just great.

As for sex, violence, crime, etc. represented in video games, meh. The kind of person who translates such elements into real life has a pre-existing condition that they could have applied to anything.

If there are men who think that real women should be held to the standard portrayed by video game characters, they didn't need the video game characters. They were already douchebags. If a child picks up on sexualization in a video game, and no parent is around to prevent that kind of exposure or at least educate them on the lack of correlation to the real world, they'd just pick it up from somewhere else.

If you don't want objectification in video games, don't buy games that do it, and buy the games that don't. That's not just a "don't like it, ignore it" argument, that's a market strategy. People sell what others will buy. If there's no demand for something, no one will sell it (for long). So decrease demand for what you don't want, and increase demand for what you do want.

It's treating a symptom, not a cause. The problem isn't developers making hyper-sexualized games, it's that there are so many people willing to buy them. Taking away misogynistic games isn't going to stop people from being misogynists.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

The game doesn't say or try to convey that women should be treated differently.

The thing is it does.

Men = powerful heroes.

Women = sex objects according to these games. To me that's done deliberately to exclude women in favour of men.

It's demeaning and doesn't belong in modern society along with racism.

 

[Nieroshai]

We are referring to a country where the porn industry is a cultural thing, so I get it. I don't like it, but I get it.

 

[Nurb]

I have a point, and you don't, so you resort to the usualy cry of perpetual victimhood.

And for the record, I find some of the tightly dressed men in the DoA series as attractive as some of the women characters... So what do you make of that?

Heh and you resort to telling me I'm 'crying victimhood' when I'm actually telling it like it is.

I noticed you completely ignored my post where I pointed out to you that women can be attractive without being heavily oversexualised. I guess the fact that you find the guys attractive proves that point.

Are you suggesting there's something wrong with finding both genders attractive?

 

[neoontime]

You know, I can bold you saying "I don't think a lot of people see it that way" and say prove it but I'm not other people and that would be pointless. It's pointless because my argument was to simply defend others arguments. You see, the way theheroofaction said his argument was if it doesn't hurt you physically, you shouldn't argue with something like this. That point annoyed me a little so I went to argue him about. Yes, I understand people overlook the boobs and enjoy them but some see them as a flaw for realism or feminism. I honestly don't really care about this topic because that's what team ninja does, boobs. But some people care and if there is players of the game series who may see this as a thing we can get over, let them have a chance to argue it with Team ninja. Both have opinions and no one gets to just say, "You have no arguement, SHUT UP" Glad I cleared up myself.

You could, and I would point you to the over 1.3 Million copies they sold of their last game on the Xbox alone and tell the rest to "deal with it".
I wonder what amount of the people bitching about this would even be remotely interested in buying the game anyway, I kind of assume that a large part of them aren't even the target audience they are going for.

This entire thing annoys me to no end, because it's basically what FOX News and other right-wing/religious media did back in 2008 with Mass Effect (and several other games before that), and gamers all around fought against the accusations and stupidity:
Or this: http://nation.foxnews.com/culture/2011/02/28/parents-freaked-over-raunchy-wii-sex-video-game
Or this: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2011/02/08/bulletstorm-worst-game-kids/ (Yes, Bulletstorm causes rape!)

And the comments etc. also looked entirely different: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.53656-EA-Responds-to-Mass-Effect-Report-on-Fox-News
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.263481-Fox-News-Says-Bulletstorm-Could-Make-You-a-Rapist (this one has almost 800)

But now because another group of different radical extremists (feminists) have taken up the issue of games appealing to certain audiences, all of gaming needs to rally behind them to ban all the evul nudity and sexism in teh games! Screw that.

And trying to judge and push gaming into a certain niche in regards to "realism" or "moral values" is frankly kind of stupid, because a lot of players are commiting a lot worse than stare at a pair of virtual breasts e.g. murder, mayhem, mass genocide, blowing stuff up, even killing minors, it's apparently okay to spike someone to death or shoot him in the balls/head with gruesome animations, but this is not?
It's got to have something to do with this Angloamerican prudishness and seems like the "in" thing to do right now for seemingly no particular reason...

Umm, first why would you post a fox news link, and second why are you still quoting me. Did you know posting such an extremist link in the eyes of comparing them to me is what Fox News journalist would do. Now you're me sound like such an extremist. Look, I have a stable opinion about this. I already spoke about this in my last post. Team Ninja makes games like this and that makes them most comfortable. That's good. People get to argue about something they feel is unnecessary, not having to be there. I just have to say. You don't get to be more right by lumping people that don't agree with you, with people long established to bad. Sorry but it's just bad arguing. It's hypocritical and a thing I hate to see on escapist. Just understand that at least

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I have a point, and you don't, so you resort to the usualy cry of perpetual victimhood.

And for the record, I find some of the tightly dressed men in the DoA series as attractive as some of the women characters... So what do you make of that?

Heh and you resort to telling me I'm 'crying victimhood' when I'm actually telling it like it is.

I noticed you completely ignored my post where I pointed out to you that women can be attractive without being heavily oversexualised. I guess the fact that you find the guys attractive proves that point.

Are you suggesting there's something wrong with finding both genders attractive?

Nope I'm saying you find them attractive even though they aren't oversexualised. Proving my point that it isn't necessary.

Not entirely sure where you got that from.