DoA Dev Says Jiggle Physics Are Part of Japanese Culture

[Trishbot]

Lol. That's actually hilarious. I own every single Dead or Alive game (barring the beach volleyball games) because, as I said, I'm a fighting game enthusiast. Unlike some people, I actually DO try things to see for myself how they stack up.

Then, in my opinion, you hurt your case in the other direction. Clearly the problem is big enough for you to make noise over, but not big enough for you to stop giving them money. (I know others, like The Jimquisition, disagree with me on that, and acknowledge that it's an opinion).

Says who? I didn't give them a single cent. I bought them used. I never gave Team Ninja any of my money.

I walked away from Dead or Alive 1-4 very unimpressed... though Dead or Alive 2: Ultimate is actually pretty good, seeing as how it puts more emphasis on traditional tactics instead of counters and environmental damage.

What, may I ask, made you think that 3 or 4 would be different than 1 or 2? I ask that sincerely.

And you should be pleased about this, then, since you now know in advance that DoA5 will be more of the same.

Dead or Alive 2: Ultimate actually came after Dead or Alive 3, which I found to be rather rough, unpolished, unbalanced, and heavy on the rote memorization (called "dial-a-combo") and environmental damage. The challenge was placed on location, less on skill and mind-games, while Dead or Alive 4 came after Dead or Alive 2: Ultimate and put a heavy, heavy emphasis on counters above all else, to the point that a single counter could do more damage than a carefully executed 6-hit combo. If you didn't like all the countering, you were pretty much out of luck. DoA2: Ultimate was the right balance. It had elements of everything, but it felt fine-tuned to work towards everyone's style of gameplay; you could specialize in counters, environmental damage, combos, juggles, set-ups, knock-downs, etc. You were rarely FORCED to master the one specific tactic that ensured dominance, like the other games required.

 

[neoontime]

This is more of criticism as something they can change to make the game appear better to others than harm. You know, a game having a flaw doesn't do harm, it just be better without it.

I think your problem is that you are looking at attractive people with prospectively large breasts as a "flaw", I don't think a lot of people see it that way, especially their target audience and I don't particularly expect feminists to go out in droves and buy Dead or Alive 5 tomorrow even if they have managed to banish the evul boobs.

By the way, I always read this "gaming needs to grow up, these games are targetted at prepubescent teens!" etc. and even if it would be true that nobody over a certain age can appreciate well-formed virtual characters (which it isn't) or enjoy the game anyway (which they can), there will ALWAYS be a large amount of youthful people interested in video games, it's not like they stop being made. The only difference seems to be that most gaming media 10-15 years ago seemed to have recognized that and in the last 5 years or so have rather adapted some sort of holier-than-though attitude.

You know, I can bold you saying "I don't think a lot of people see it that way" and say prove it but I'm not other people and that would be pointless. It's pointless because my argument was to simply defend others arguments. You see, the way theheroofaction said his argument was if it doesn't hurt you physically, you shouldn't argue with something like this. That point annoyed me a little so I went to argue him about. Yes, I understand people overlook the boobs and enjoy them but some see them as a flaw for realism or feminism. I honestly don't really care about this topic because that's what team ninja does, boobs. But some people care and if there is players of the game series who may see this as a thing we can get over, let them have a chance to argue it with Team ninja. Both have opinions and no one gets to just say, "You have no arguement, SHUT UP" Glad I cleared up myself.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

This is pretty much proof of sexism and a boys club culture in gaming.

 

[Polite Sage]

Escapist Forums in a nutshell:

Gaming Related News = about 40 replies
Meme Related News = about 100 replies
Big Publisher Related News = 200 replies
News About Sexism or Women vs. Men = our forums broke because the overload of comments

I'm too lazy to scroll back and read every "well thought and written comment" and instead I'm just going to say this:

I'm fine with these games. I don't play DoA, but sex sells. Always will. Until a mainstream game starts representing women as "mindless cows that only exist for cooking and their wombs" and is getting general acceptance, I'm fine with any kind of fan service they pull out. It's not hurting anybody, it's not making people more "sexist against women" because people who buy these games already appreciate the female body.

These games ARE NOT going to affect their views on equality between sexes. I do enjoy some games that show a bit of skin, if it's that kind of a game (out of place uguu fanservice is a BIG no no). These kinds of games exist solely for catering to moe otaku audience, and that's just fine.
There are erotic novels catering to women which portray men as muscular casanovas and no one gives a shit.

And I want to throw a big FUCK YOU, both to uberfeminists / white knights who yell "waaah, this game degrades womyns" and actual chauvinists that don't respect women as equals.

 

[targren]

Says who? I didn't give them a single cent. I bought them used. I never gave Team Ninja any of my money.

Fair enough. There's the school of thought that buying used still helps them by increasing demand (the copy you bought used meant one copy that had to be bought new, sort of thing), but I don't subscribe to it.

Dead or Alive 2: Ultimate actually came after Dead or Alive 3, which I found to be rather rough, unpolished, unbalanced, and heavy on the rote memorization (called "dial-a-combo") and environmental damage. The challenge was placed on location, less on skill and mind-games, while Dead or Alive 4 came after Dead or Alive 2: Ultimate and put a heavy, heavy emphasis on counters above all else, to the point that a single counter could do more damage than a carefully executed 6-hit combo. If you didn't like all the countering, you were pretty much out of luck. DoA2: Ultimate was the right balance. It had elements of everything, but it felt fine-tuned to work towards everyone's style of gameplay; you could specialize in counters, environmental damage, combos, juggles, set-ups, knock-downs, etc. You were rarely FORCED to master the one specific tactic that ensured dominance, like the other games required.

So then you're talking about the mechanics. But every single one of them had the same aesthetic (adjusting for technology, naturally), yes?

 

[Reaper195]

....I have no problem with this. But if gamers want to get up in arms because Japanese want to visually represent their women like tits with sexy bodies attatched...they're idiots. That's not sexism, sexism is having a woman raped, then sending that woman to jail, and then forcing her to marry that man. Fuck, this shit is nothing compared to what goes on in the middle east, but we'll get all riled up because a japanese man says he show images of women wearing provocative clothing and jiggly goodies because that's how it's always been done...

 

[Overusedname]

Uh... don't worry Japan, I'm pretty damn sure that portraying women as jiggly pandering cheesecake isn't specific to your culture.

I'm honestly not sure what that guy's trying to say.

I can only assume he's actually going OUT OF HIS WAY to be as stupid and insensitive as humanly possible. He might be borderline insane.

Jiggle physics and culture can't be mentioned in the same sentence without creating a mass of lol's. I think the entire Island Nation just collectively face-palmed.

 

[TwiZtah]

I can't even pretend to care about these gender wars anymore, and I cannot stand all the damn white knights who just feign caring.

 

[Negatempest]

[
Even if that joy comes from supporting something morally wrong?
Something that has been a huge issue not just in games but the world in general?
Would you play a game supporting racism or ethnic cleansing if you had fun playing it?

I know right, like you would never support a game that focuses on violence and gore as well cause that is morally wrong too....oh...

Random violence and gore has been in media since a long time.
You see it all the time on the news. Kids play cops and robbers pretending to shoot each other.
However, this has to do more with social issue's like sexism which is a real problem.

You are telling me that detailed gore and violence is media is not morally wrong. Other societies see America's love of guns and violence as bothersome as we see Japan and their love of boobies. What I am saying is that over the top violence and gore in games is just as morally wrong as sex, nudity and boobs in video games. Did you just tell me that violence and gore is not as morally wrong as viewing sexy women in video games?

P.s. Great quoting is acting up now T^T[/quote]

Any sort of violence is morally wrong but that fact is that world culture accepts it as a part of daily life. People scream at each other, that's violence. Oh sure maybe there are games where you tear someone's intestines out and wear it as a scarf but even that is often censored or given restricted distribution/ratings.

But sexism is a social issue that should not be a part of our daily life.
Japanese culture is NOT about perversion or love of boobies. It's more complex.
Oh sure they have a Penis festival but then so did the Greek's (virility festival).
Ajanta Elora Caves in South East Asia have naked depictions of gods and goddesses.
But that originates from ancient times, customs and religions.

But you can't say, LOL! WE PUT GIANT TITTIES IN OUR GAMES CUZ LOL CULTURE!![/quote]

Censored? Not anywhere near was quick as censoring boobs and sex. Nor would I find it an issue if the guys were in S&M clothing as well if some of the audience wants it. Just because violence and gore is more accepted does not make a better alternative to sex and nudity. That is what I am saying. Nor does sexuality in itself promote the belittling of women. You know what does? When religious adults tell children that sexuality is evil and must be punished. When parents have no idea how to properly respond to a child and give them a proper advice on sex. If anything, what is truly wrong is when "adults" throw anything to do with sexuality under the rug for a later day that never comes.

 

[targren]

Yes, I understand people overlook the boobs and enjoy them but some see them as a flaw for realism or feminism.

Well, feminism is an ideology and/or a political movement, so calling something a "flaw" for it is a pretty arrogant claim (not that I expect otherwise. q.v. my comment on arrogance above). On the other hand, this "realism" junk needs to go away. I've only ever played one "realistic" game, and I quit after 15 minutes.

"Desert Bus."

Every other game eschews "realism" for "fun."

 

[Tony2077]

I can't even pretend to care about these gender wars anymore, and I cannot stand all the damn white knights who just feign caring.

white knights people who pretend to care to get some. yes i'm a jerk

 

[GangstaPony]

Nor would I find it an issue if the guys were in S&M clothing as well if some of the audience wants it. Just because violence and gore is more accepted does not make a better alternative to sex and nudity. That is what I am saying. Nor does sexuality in itself promote the belittling of women. You know what does? When religious adults tell children that sexuality is evil and must be punished. When parents have no idea how to properly respond to a child and give them a proper advice on sex. If anything, what is truly wrong is when "adults" throw anything to do with sexuality under the rug for a later day that never comes.

I actually agree with you here. People especially parents HAVE to be more open about discussing sex because it is literary a matter of life and death. Particularly an issue here in India where we almost have no sex education. The school's might have some formal info and the villages may get distributions of condoms but people still shy from talking about it.

 

[rbstewart7263]

'When you take that to countries outside of Japan, it tends to be very misinterpreted in some cases, people considering it sexist or derogatory etc."

How the hell is that misinterpretation. They are portraying women as sex objects. That's about as sexist and derogatory as it can get different culture or no.

I'm never going to buy a Team Ninja game again. I can see why Other M was such a trainwreck.

Well the men arent exactly filled to the brim with deep characterization either soooooooo....

And how many fighting games offer us anything other than eye candy? thats all ryu or that other ninja guy or that drunk guy are? swaggering handsome strong males? I dont even care to remember who they are except ryu and thats cause I played ninja gaiden.

I will say that team ninja has faltered ever since itagaki left(ironically he was accused of sexual harassment earlier)

Seriously when are we gonna quit acting like this is one sided objectification.

 

[targren]

Seriously when are we gonna quit acting like this is one sided objectification.

It's actually zero-sided objectification.

There's a difference between "sexualization" and "objectification."

A good classic example of an objectified female in video games: Pauline in Donkey Kong, or Princess Peach. She's an "object" because she's just a macguffin to mark the finish line. You could change her to a meatball sub and modify the story to Mario being hungry but DK/Bowser stole his lunch. That is objectification.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Team Ninja, how's that depiction of women helping current declining Japanese birthrates?

Team Ninja, how's that depiction of women helping current declining Japanese birthrates?

Same sex train carriages to stop the rampart rape and sexual assault is a sure sign of a healthy gender culture lol.

Oh and lolicon.

Sorry kids, but none of that stuff is actually to blame, despite the fact that you desperately wish that it were. Although I'll happily admit that some of the things mentioned were indeed vile, that is if you're interested in something in way of a consolation prize.

Ready access to family planning services and equitable levels of female education, combined with a lack of immigration to help balance the books has invariably led, for better or worse, to sub-replacement fertility.[footnote]http://www.thesolutionsjournal.com/node/919[/footnote] [footnote]http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine/issue/2012/4/how-civilisations-die[/footnote]Sure, I wouldn't say that they're helping Japan's demographical winter, but what you're doing is pointing at a little water on the deck of the Titanic and claiming that it is going to end up sinking the boat. While the hold fills with sea water.

I swear I do more research on these topics then most of the feminists end up doing.

There have been numerous studies between objectification and sexual assault not least of which between sexual violence and pornography and the consensus is that when men are exposed to these materials they are more likely to attack women on the view that they 'actually like it' or something along those lines. 49% of men that had admitted guilt said that sexually objective material was a preclusion to their performing sexual assault. as for Japan,

As discussed earlier, the common signifier used for Japan?s wartime mass rape camp victims is remarkably ?comfort women? which constructs the perception of this gross human rights violation as something non-problematically pleasant. Another notorious example from the Japanese language is?kinshin sou kan? which signifies incest. Now note that kinshin signifies ?blood-relative,? sou signifies ?mutually desired? and kan signifies ?copulation? (in a pejorative sense). This word for incest means ?mutually desired copulation between blood-relatives (family members)? and is being used for the rape of a girl child committed by her father.

It's okay folks it's just Japanese culture nothing to see here :|

Source : Tomo Shibata received a doctorate at l'Ecole des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales, and has written articles on chlid sexual abuse in the opinon section of The Japan Times, the U.S.-Japan Women's Journal, and other academic and popular journals both in English and Japanese. She is currently preparing a book in English provisionally titled Treating Sexual Violence in the Japanese Context: Wartime Sexual Slavery, Pornography and Father-Daughter Incest.

 

[4173]

Meh, niche game has niche aspects. All games aren't created equal, and jiggle physics once again being in a DoA sequel is not the same thing as a Call of Duty sequel suddenly getting them.

edit: That said, "it's part of mah culture dawg" is not a catch-all excuse for all behaviors.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Because it is. Men aren't sexualised and objectified in games, they are power fantasies. Someone asked me who the last playable character in a game was that I was attracted to and I had to actually sit there and think for a long time. I bet guys wouldn't have that same problem.

 

[D Moness]

I'm never going to buy a Team Ninja game again. I can see why Other M was such a trainwreck.

I keep repeating myself in this topic. Other M was seen as bad due to the terrible script what was made by Yoshio Sakamoto (the original creator of the metroid series) Most people agree the gameplay is rather solid (that is the part that team ninja worked on)

Team ninja only worked on the gameplay (even the fmv's were outsourced).


Also who the heck is staring at how boobs are bouncing when you get your bum kicked in a fight

 

[Polite Sage]

Seriously when are we gonna quit acting like this is one sided objectification.

It is. For games at least. You could argue and pretend that many games have muscular men in loinclothes, but that's there to convey badassness or manliness. Power and virility. I can hardly think of games that are sexist against men... Perhaps Analogue, but that's really an exception rather than a rule.

Not that I think these games shouldn't exists, they have every right to make these because THEY. ARE. JUST FICTION. AND. HARM. NO. ONE. Boycotting a company for making a moe game catering solely to moe audience is just fucking retarded. That's the same as bashing Twilight or Justin Bieber for catering to teen girls.

All other media has plenty of sexist portrayal of both sexes though and sometimes shifts to more misandrim too.