Doctor Who May Head Towards a Woman as the Doctor

[DarksideFlame]

ak93]

The Doctor could technically change gender, but he could also regenerate as a Sontaran or an Ood for that matter.

Unlike the now fully established possibility for changing gender, I don't think they're going to make the Doctor change from Time Lord to a different alien race. Granted, they could do it as DW isn't known for having many rules.

ak93]


This is like making James Bond a girl. Just... doesn't... work...

I don't understand this argument, The Doctor is an alien from another planet that looks very similar to humans (but with 2 hearts) because reasons, has the ability to cheat death via process that fully recovers the body but also changes appearance which seemingly can be done an infinite number of times, goes by "The Doctor" which is quite gender-neutral.

James Bond on the other hand, is human and belongs to a franchise in which there are no aliens, magical or supernatural elements. If they wanted a woman as Bond they could make an alternate universe where that is so. Like Elementary, the American-produced Sherlock Holmes show, they did some changes like casting Lucy Liu as Watson, and in my opinion that worked out well.

 

[Raidenko]

A very interesting idea, we also have very able volunteers.

http://www.themarysue.com/helen-mirren-doctor-who/

 

[Suhi89]

I can't really see the downside if they find the right actress. It doesn't change the lore of the show, and even if it did, that has been done many times before. Not doing it because you're scared it will be perceived as pandering is a terrible reason not to do it. The companion could quite easily be male or female or she could have more than one.

In universe, it's rather silly that the Doctor is always a white guy, virtually indistinguishable from humans, with a British accent (although this makes sense from a real world perspective). I don't see that it's any sillier that he's lived for thousands of years as a man and then becomes a woman. It would be for the exact same casting reasons.

What I do hope, is that the show is about the Doctor, rather than the 'most important person in the universe' companions. I find Clara incredibly irritating for reasons I can't quite work out.

 

[totheendofsin]

I'm not surprised, I figured the female Master was a way of testing the waters for time lords changing genders, which (for those who bring up the shows "canon") has way more going for it than against it

I have two theories regarding time lords changing gender that could theoretically be used to explain how it went so long without it happening, either it has to be a conscious choice during regeneration (time lords have been shown to have some degree of control when regenerating, it's just the Doctor doesn't exert it) or the initial change is a 1/1000 chance, afterwords the chance increases significantly.

of course they likely won't bring up a reason for The Doctor changing genders, which is probably for the best

as for sexuality... ehh, I preferred it when The Doctor didn't really have a love interest... but I wouldn't really mind if The Doctor were gay if it did come up

 

[Baresark]

The very second they revealed that woman was the Master, my first thought was that this is gonna be a thing for the Doctor at some point. Fine by me. It won't change much. The Doctor has always been frail. No Doctor is physically gifted in any way. They are always skinny "girly" men anyway.

Also, I feel Gay is completely unnecessary. I don't know if anyone has ever noticed, but the doctor has always seemed completely uninterested in women anyway. I mean, Matt Smith is gay in real life and he turned down Amy Pond (who was pretty damn hot). I think there has already been at least one gay Doctor anyway.

I have to put this in here: Does anyone legitimately care about the British Monarchy's seemingly random need to knight and dame people? It's just ridiculous. It's like what she says means more because of that... which it does not. Sorry, that has always gotten to me a little bit. I was just had to rant a bit. This is not an attack on Helen Mirren, who is a legitimately good actress and deserves everything she has been given.

 

[Boba Frag]

I've not really been a fan of this aspect of Gallifreyan potential regeneration, but I am a minority, so I'll just say I don't like the idea of a female Doctor, I also didn't like the idea of a female Master, and leave it at that.

I'd rather see some other Gallifreyan who happens to be female with a T.A.R.D.I.S solving space mysteries.

I'm (sort of) in the same camp as you, but I loved that Missy was the Master. Like, after seeing those amazing links from deviantart, I certainly don't hate the idea, (Ruth Wilson would be fucking perfect Time Lord material) but I would be all over the idea of a female Time Lord (not all Gallifreyan people are Time Lords, after all) coming back to the show, just like in the Classic Who era when Romana became part of the show.
(Seriously, Ruth Wilson)


On the other hand, I'd be all for Idris Elba to play the Doctor, though I can't really see it as his cup of tea.
I might be wrong, maybe he's a giant Doctor Who nerd.

Mind you, sometimes I've found it more satisfying to get my Doctor Who fix from Big Finish.

 

[AstaresPanda]

I dont see the point. The Dr's an Alien. Feels forced and politically motivated.

 

[Vault101]

"I know I'm going to get in trouble for saying that - you cast a person, you don't cast the gender.".

but you DO cast a gender...that's how casting works

or is it just a coincidence 90% of main characters in out media are men?

There are two reasons I'd oppose a female Doctor right now.

1) It would shake up the formula a bit too much. You'd need to overhaul the current companion structure to accomodate a female Doctor (i.e. Less Amy Ponds, more Jack Harknesses)

there's no reason you can't have a female doctor with a female lead

[quote/]I'm not opposed to the idea, but certain requirements need to be met so that the prospect isn't a total disaster.
Not to mention the idea that the decision is too politically charged, and one that one of the BBC's flagship franchise's can afford to allow time to tell.
[/quote]
if a female lead is too politically charged then that's kind of sad

I mean this is Doctor Who FFS through its entire run its always been weird/off the wall "oh hey I'm a woman now" is not far off the mark

This seems like a very "you can, but should you" type of situation. In-universe it makes no sense (2000 years of living as a man doesn't exactly lead to there being a logical reason for such a change) .

2000 years of living as a man..there's your reason doctor wants to try something different (assuming he/she has control over the regen process)

 

[Redryhno]

but you DO cast a gender...that's how casting works

or is it just a coincidence 90% of main characters in out media are men?

Or could it maybe be a majority of male actors and therefore it is easier to write for that when you will get a wider array of ethnicity, looks, acting schools, degrees, credentials, and backgrounds? You've got Rhys Ifans coming from a Shakespearean background and Tom Cruise originally wanting to be a Catholic Priest, then we did have Michal Clarke Duncan, who came from a community college and construction work and didn't even get to start acting until his mid-thirties, William Peterson and Idris Elba, both theatre actors, etc..

The last twenty years or so,this is just from what I've seen so feel free to correct me, the majority of new actresses could easily be carbon copies of one another and do not have the wide variety of backgrounds that decades past had or their newer male counterparts have.

Then you also have to take into account that even if they are writing male characters, it could just as easily be because it is males writing males because it is easier to write your own gender than it is to write the opposite.

But this is all on a tangent because you wanted to bring up gender politics again,(as seems to be the case whenever I see your name) when the quote and reason I was using it was for all castings, not just females.

You want to know what I hate? That AmerInds have yet to really have a majority of AmerInd actors playing AmerInd characters in the 60+ years they've been in film, pretty much the only exception to this rule seems to be Adam Beach and Graham Greene, and nearly as often as they appear on film as said characters, it is only as caricatures.

But, in the interest of argument, I'll say that Western media has a problem in the prevalence of male characters, so don't watch them, complain about the bad/highly offensive ones,praise the ones you like that have female characters, and watch something else from another place. Korean dramas are pretty good, and have female MC's just as often as males, not to mention most of the time, the music is head and shoulders better than the west's. Then you could also go back in time here in the west and watch some of the bigger grossers, some of the female characters may be considered sexist now, but their involvement in the plot makes the plot do what it does, and without them, nothing would happen.

This seems like a very "you can, but should you" type of situation. In-universe it makes no sense (2000 years of living as a man doesn't exactly lead to there being a logical reason for such a change) .

2000 years of living as a man..there's your reason doctor wants to try something different (assuming he/she has control over the regen process)

It's been alluded to that he has no control over it beyond regrowing a hand or something very minor the last 6 hours of a regen cycle.

 

[nyarlathotepsama]

There are a few non canon female Doctors so why not a canon one? I think I might like to see that if not just to see how a woman might portray the character. She might even be able to bring a total fresh outlook to the series. I'm a very long time watcher of the series and this news doesn't upset me at all, which in and of itself is a pretty good thing considering I'm a long term Doctor Who fan with access to a computer. Don't believe me? Oh don't tempt me into writing a fifty page treaty on the slow decent into monster of week the Daleks have gone through! I'll do it!!!

 

[Kingjackl]

That's cool, but let's no get too ahead of ourselves. Peter Capladi's only just started, and I reckon he's shaping up to be one of the best.

 

[Vault101]

[snip

no its got nothing to do with the availability of actors

most of the time you cast the actor [I/]for the part[/I] NOT the [/I]part for the actor[/I] <-and yes the latter does happen quite a bit when you've got a star/the writers have someone specific in mind/or they adjust the role because the actor impressed them. And yes there have even been exceptions for female characters...like Ripley was written as a man and I'm not sure at what point they decided to go with a she but they did <-but that right there is the exception

fundamentally [b/]the actor is there to fit the part[/b] and one of the first things when it comes to characters is the gender

the part is pre-determined by both writing AND as a marketing/business decisions, you want to have a very clear idea of who you have in mind before you go casting

now as I said there are exceptions AND if they actually did decide "ok were gonna write this part as gender neutral and see who impresses us at the auditions" <-that would be cool and different and really interesting


[b/]but its not how it works[/b]

[quote/]But, in the interest of argument, I'll say that Western media has a problem in the prevalence of male characters, so don't watch them, complain about the bad/highly offensive ones,praise the ones you like that have female characters, and watch something else from another place. Korean dramas are pretty good, and have female MC's just as often as males, not to mention most of the time, the music is head and shoulders better than the west's. Then you could also go back in time here in the west and watch some of the bigger grossers, some of the female characters may be considered sexist now, but their involvement in the plot makes the plot do what it does, and without them, nothing would happen.[/quote]

I'm sorry did I ask for advice in what stuff to watch?

oh wait no I didn't

EDIT: and you know it was actually kind of exist for you to imply female actors are all the same/shallow your looking at the wrong end the equation

most roles for women are shallow and require them to be super conventionally attractive, so of coarse they are all gonna come out looking the same in the end (not that I equate attractiveness with being boring/shallow...not by a long shot)

 

[jFr[e]ak93]

ak93]

SNIP

Sorry for the confusion with the alien thing. I meant he could take on the appearance of them. As in, he looks human now, but is time lord. He could look Sontaran while still being Time Lord.

I get the James Bond counter point too... however, James Bond is a Time Lord.... at least in that special place in my heart...

I donno, I'm just really sick of the amount of hype stuff like this gets. I feel like it's more for press and being "trendy" than benefiting the story.

 

[Redryhno]

I'm sorry did I ask for advice in what stuff to watch?

oh wait no I didn't

EDIT: and you know it was actually kind of exist for you to imply female actors are all the same/shallow your looking at the wrong end the equation

I was simply trying to give you other options if you despised modern western media's representations of women as much as you seem to. No need to get hostile kiddie. Wasn't meant as some kind of "get out of the club" response.

You can think what you think, I can think what I think, and we can all just live in harmony because neither of us know the truth of any of it outside a handful of examples and personal experiences.

And go ahead and say it's sexist for me to think they all look and act the same, it's what I see, and I asked you to go ahead and correct me with examples if you had any. I'm still asking and waiting when you're ready to not be as heated as you seem to be now.

 

[pandorum]

NO no no no. It all screams really bad fan-fiction, don't we have enough women on the show who are Timelords? I mean their is the doctors daughter the clone blond chick from tennant's run, there is river song, there is Donna, there is Missy remastered. For fuck sake its enough, now a SPIN OFF revolving around Donna would be awesome. Changing the Doctor to a woman for the sake of pleasing fan-fiction is not a smart move.

 

[Vault101]

I was simply trying to give you other options if you despised modern western media's representations of women as much as you seem to. No need to get hostile kiddie. Wasn't meant as some kind of "get out of the club" response.You can think what you think, I can think what I think, and we can all just live in harmony because neither of us know the truth of any of it outside a handful of examples and personal experiences.

because this is not about immediate "solutions" I and others like me don't spend our lives frothing at the mouth unable to enjoy things (or find anything TO enjoy)

but if I think things are BS then I'm gonna say things are BS, even IF I play Dragon Age:Inquisition after watching Orange is the New Black

the same "solutions" are just a way to derail the issue....this is about the bigger picture

[quote/]And go ahead and say it's sexist for me to think they all look and act the same, it's what I see, and I asked you to go ahead and correct me with examples if you had any. I'm still asking and waiting when you're ready to not be as heated as you seem to be now.[/quote]
I shouldn't have to explain that female actors are different fully rounded different people....like seriously

and again you were looking at the wrong end of the equation, MOST roles for women are of a certain type a very similar type save for the odd niche definitely visually

 

[the December King]

I'm (sort of) in the same camp as you, but I loved that Missy was the Master. Like, after seeing those amazing links from deviantart, I certainly don't hate the idea, (Ruth Wilson would be fucking perfect Time Lord material) but I would be all over the idea of a female Time Lord (not all Gallifreyan people are Time Lords, after all) coming back to the show, just like in the Classic Who era when Romana became part of the show.
(Seriously, Ruth Wilson)


On the other hand, I'd be all for Idris Elba to play the Doctor, though I can't really see it as his cup of tea.
I might be wrong, maybe he's a giant Doctor Who nerd.

Mind you, sometimes I've found it more satisfying to get my Doctor Who fix from Big Finish.

Crap, you're right- I meant 'Time Lord' in a T.A.R.D.I.S, not just some Gallifreyan schlub! And Romana is a perfect example- in some ways she was a far more qualified Time Lord- in fact, as I recall, her only handicap was that she was fresh from the testing/academy(?) on Gallifrey and thus lacked experience, and thus got to be a little naive, even while being a technical genius(although not obsessive, I am a big fan of the Tom Baker/ Fourth Doctor era).

Aaaah, well, as to the sex-changing regeneration, I'm just going to have to roll with whatever the new generation of writers want to do... but I won't lie, I probably won't watch it if it happens. What I mean is, is that I'll accept that it's different, and in demand, possibly a cheap token effort, or maybe inclusive and brilliant... and just too different for me.

 

[Redryhno]

but if I think things are BS then I'm gonna say things are BS, even IF I play Dragon Age:Inquisition after watching Orange is the New Black

the same "solutions" are just a way to derail the issue....this is about the bigger picture

What do either of those have to do with one another...Haven't played Inquisition and Orange is a boring character drama excuse for porn from the three episodes I've watched.

[quote/]And go ahead and say it's sexist for me to think they all look and act the same, it's what I see, and I asked you to go ahead and correct me with examples if you had any. I'm still asking and waiting when you're ready to not be as heated as you seem to be now.

I shouldn't have to explain that female actors are different fully rounded different people....like seriously

and again you were looking at the wrong end of the equation, MOST roles for women are of a certain type a very similar type save for the odd niche definitely visually[/quote]

Tell where I said they weren't, all I said were they look and act the same, not that they weren't individuals, you can't even provide examples of anything beyond an off-hand remark about the worst navigator in the universe Ripley for crissakes.

Look, this is all tangential to the original point of the thread,and what I was saying,as I've repeated, so if you'd be so kind, drop this and start your own thread about it if it's so important.

And to take a page out of your book, I'm going to call alot of what you're saying is BS and go on about my business enjoying what I approve of in media, condemn what is actually bad, praising what is done well in my opinion, and watch something from another country when everything else fails me and start the process over again.

 

[Vault101]

What do either of those have to do with one another...Haven't played Inquisition and Orange is a boring character drama excuse for porn from the three episodes I've watched.

my point was I think both of them are really good in terms of gender (and in some cases race) representations and I enjoy them

but just because they exist (and I enjoy them) doesn't mean I don't think there is a problem in media or I'll stop "complaining" about it

[quote/]
Tell where I said they weren't, all I said were they look and act the same, not that they weren't individuals, you can't even provide examples of anything beyond an off-hand remark about the worst navigator in the universe Ripley for crissakes.[/quote]
I've lost track of what you're asking at this point


[quote/]And to take a page out of your book, I'm going to call alot of what you're saying is BS and go on about my business enjoying what I approve of in media, condemn what is actually bad, praising what is done well in my opinion, and watch something from another country when everything else fails me and start the process over again.[/quote]
well.."yay!" ..that makes two of us