This could be either fantastic or disastrous, either way I'm getting some popcorn ready and possibly a riot shield.
Doctor Who May Head Towards a Woman as the Doctor
- Thread starter roseofbattle
- Start date
Ughhhhh. While I'm not against the principle, and am aware it's canonically sound, must we really? Are we so short of well written female characters that we need to gender change iconcic male ones? I wouldn't mind really, but the fact is that I like the Doctor as a man, just how he is. It works for me, it hasn't grown old, and I believe if it's not broken, don't fix it. I know some others may feel that the gender change would spice things up, and that's fair enough. I simply disagree. Besides that, doing it for the sake of it is a no no in my books. I'm all for good female characters in prominent roles, but I feel they should actually be new characters instead of having to write over another.
Also, as as been said, Moffat is a train wreck when it comes to writing good characters (not only females, Danny was a twunting shambolic annoyance), so if this must happen, it had better not be him.
Hey, with all that said, if they opt for a woman, I'll give it a try. There's a plethora of actresses who spring to mind as fitting the bill well, but I'd love it if they had a new character written for them.
Also, as as been said, Moffat is a train wreck when it comes to writing good characters (not only females, Danny was a twunting shambolic annoyance), so if this must happen, it had better not be him.
Hey, with all that said, if they opt for a woman, I'll give it a try. There's a plethora of actresses who spring to mind as fitting the bill well, but I'd love it if they had a new character written for them.
1. No, the doctor can't change into a different species, only an new Galifreyian body. His regenerations aren't a shape shifting ability.jFr[e said:
2. I do agree with your second part. This isn't as much about creativity than SJW and PC going overboard once again. IF a great female actor came along organically, then I have no real issue with this, seeing as it's established a Time Lord can do that (I don't think that ability to should have been added into the canon to begin with, but it is, and it can be worked with)
The companions as as much (if not more so) loved then the Doctors themselves, and saying one has to be the Doctor is kind of a kick in the teeth for every great actress that played a strong companion.
3. Jenny was a wasted opportunity. That would have been the best way to create a female protagonist, with a new, fresh story instead of trying to mix up things for a SJW checklist.
The ability to change genders during regeneration was added fairly recently, so why would there have been women trying for the role. Were they having men read for Scarlet O'Hear in Gone with the Wind, or women read to be Superman?Zachary Amaranth said:
So no, the statement isn't hollow.
What's hollow is the line of thinking "the Doctor needs to be a woman"! As above, if a great actress comes along (now that the gender changes is established canon) then that's great, as long as it's organic and with a great story, not to check off a list b/c the SJWs wanted to change it.
Here is some factual issues with your statementsBaresark said:
The Doctor hasn't always been "frail". The Third Doctor actually kicked a lot of ass with martial arts and fencing. The Fourth Doctor also engaged in some physical fights. The Fifth Doctor was a good Cricket Player, The Seventh fought an anaimalized Master, and the rest have all been pretty physically fit. Look at all the running they have to do! Even in his older forms, he never really showed being "frail". So, Fail 1
The Tenth Doctor was pretty damn interested in Rose Tyler... The Eleventh was kinda tempted by Amy, but MARRIED River Song. So, Fail 2
Matt Smith isn't gay in real life. He played a gay man in a role, but isn't gay. FAIL 3
And the rest is irrelvent to the conversation
1. The fact that you wished a physical aliment on a man b/c you dislike his writing is pretty damn pathetic. It's funny the mods will get mad at people for "making fun" of others, but the fact that you wished something that horrible on someone makes your opinion and humanity less than valid. You could just say "retires, moves on, ect" and gotten the same effect>Single Shot said:
2. River Song, Clara Oswald, Madam Vastra, or Jenni have hardly been "flat" characters. Now, I agree that the supporting characters in some of the stories have been, but great development isn't needed for someone that's in 45mins of TV. HE also created the Weeping Angels that fan girls go nuts over for some reason.
3. I know that it was probably for a joke, but the Doctor can't be a sontaran, they can only regenerate into a Time Lord body, and genetically become human thru their fob watch. That's it
IF you don't like the show, don't watch it. Moffet doesn't owe you anything and probably can't hear your whining through all that money he has.
You know what? I'd love a female timelord. But please, for the love of god, don't let it happen while Steven Moffat is still the head showrunner.
A year and a half ago, do you know what Moffat himself said about the possibility of a female Doctor? "I like that Helen Mirren has been saying the next doctor should be a woman. I would like to go on record and say that the Queen should be played by a man."
I mean, never mind that the queen is an actual person, and the Doctor is a centuries-old alien that can regenerate into the form of ANY HUMAN BODY. And every single time he's regenerated into a British white male, and-- you know what? I've ranted about this guy a lot in the past. Here's some really, really old posts I've reblogged on tumblr [http://rosrchach.tumblr.com/tagged/steven-moffat] that provide better insight than I can. I honestly stopped giving a shit about this show after series 6.
A year and a half ago, do you know what Moffat himself said about the possibility of a female Doctor? "I like that Helen Mirren has been saying the next doctor should be a woman. I would like to go on record and say that the Queen should be played by a man."
I mean, never mind that the queen is an actual person, and the Doctor is a centuries-old alien that can regenerate into the form of ANY HUMAN BODY. And every single time he's regenerated into a British white male, and-- you know what? I've ranted about this guy a lot in the past. Here's some really, really old posts I've reblogged on tumblr [http://rosrchach.tumblr.com/tagged/steven-moffat] that provide better insight than I can. I honestly stopped giving a shit about this show after series 6.
Brockyman said:
First: Your like the 8th person to tell me about the other doctors, so I don't care at this point. My context is how they compare to me, and by comparison they have all been really frail.
Second: I saw that whole season, David Tenant is either a poorly written Doctor or a poorly played a Doctor. I know he was supposed to be interested in her, but that failed to come through almost entirely.
Third: I will say that I could have sworn I had read an article about Matt Smith being gay, so that is my bad. I rechecked and I'm clearly eating my own foot on that one. Also, he married River Song but so what. That isn't proof of anything because so far as we know, he never once consummated his marriage.
Fourth: Last I checked, this whole article is irrelevant to life. My issue with the whole knighted and damed people is that this somehow makes them more of an authority on these things, which it does not. We are supposed to care more because Dame Helen Mirren said so. She was making a fine point that I don't disagree with one bit, but her opinion is not anymore relevant than anyone else's.
Fifth: In the future, if you don't like something just ignore it. You clearly had an issue with everything I said and the language you used was also hostile (ie. FAIL). I didn't attack anyone with what I said unless you had an attachment to the British Monarchy and how they do things.
I love that people get so mad about Moffet and a male character becoming a female one. I mean, it's almost comical. Also the fact that many of you don't look at the show with a critical mind, both in the production location, production eras, and the Universe the stories take place in.AetherWolf said:
1. (Canon) The Doctor doesn't regenerate into a HUMAN body, he regenerates into a Time Lord/Galifrayan body. Humans just "look like" Time Lords
2. (Real World) The show is produced in Great Britain. Therefore, most of the actors and actresses are going to be BRITISH! The fact that you bring this up makes me chuckle, than question humanity.
3. (Canon) A Black Time Lord wasn't canon until the "Sound of Drums". I know that it requires mind expansion to think in these terms, but until that footage, how do we know that there are Black Time Lords? Human evolved on Earth with different skin colors due to adaptation to environments and changes in genetics. Why does that mean that Galifrayans would have the same genetic features? They have 2 hearts, limit psychic abilities, larger brain capacity and efficiency, and the ability to regenerate, among other "powers".
4. (Canon) The ability for a Time Lord to change genders via regeneration is first mentioned after Eleven regenerated from Ten ("I'm a girl?!"). The next one was the Doctor talking about the Coursair (spelling) in "The Doctor's Wife, and not seen on screen until this series finale. So... why would they have thought to change the gender of the Doctor? It was stupid to even put into canon, but it's there and can happen.
5. (Real World) As much as you rant at Moffet, he was the one that introduced the concept of gender changes. Some people talked about it in fan circles, but he made it canon. HE shouldn't have, but he did
If they have a female Doctor and it leads to several unexplored and interesting story arcs then YAY.
If they have a female Doctor and it leads to nothing special and it's jsut a move done for publicity then BOO.
I really didn't like the last season if I'm being honest, but Capaldi was a fantastic Doctor, and if they got a better writer then I could see myself loving him in the role, but maybe a female doctor is just what they need to make the story feel a bit more fresh.
If they have a female Doctor and it leads to nothing special and it's jsut a move done for publicity then BOO.
I really didn't like the last season if I'm being honest, but Capaldi was a fantastic Doctor, and if they got a better writer then I could see myself loving him in the role, but maybe a female doctor is just what they need to make the story feel a bit more fresh.
Um, if people just ignored things on the internet, this forum wouldn't exist, so yeah, I commented.Baresark said:
Hostile is a bit of an overstatement... Hostile would have been like when another poster said he wanted Moffet to have a heart attack. I don't wish ill will on you, at all, but you noted things that aren't true. Some of the things are opinion and I respect that, but you presented them as facts, so I showed you that you weren't factually correct.
Reply to First: You said "All the Doctors have been frail". Granted I didn't read every post that responded to you, but you didn't say "in my experience" or "in my opinion". Your quote was stated as fact, which is untrue, and I presented evidence of it. If you think that healthy people like David Tennent, Chris Eccleston and Matt Smith are "frail" (weak, delicate, feeble), then we have different definitions of the word. Heck, Capaldi even looks quite spry being in his 60s!
Reply to Second: Again, another opinion. I could call up the times in the season they showed it, and all the fan fiction, stories, memes, ect, but I don't think that will matter. Could bring up how Ten was the saddest after Rose was lost in "Pete's World", and how that effected his relationships with Martha, Jack, and Donna. Could also bring up Journey's End when the Meta Crisis Doctor ended up with Rose (if he had no interest, I'm sure they would have kissed an such). But yeah, there wasn't any ANY sign... Again,
Reply to Third: Thank you for owning up to the Matt Smith error. Would have been better if you had said "I think Matt Smith maybe gay or bi" instead of stating it as a fact. Not that sexual orientation is something to be ashamed of, but it's mighty inappropriate to call some the wrong one without knowing the facts.
As far as the Doctor's marriage, yeah, we didn't actually see the Doctor and River in coitus (which Doctor Who never really shows anything over kissing), but the way the characters interact and the innuendo used by River when talking about the Doctor does show a form of familiarity that a husband and wife would have. So, not proven, but Eleven did show that he really cared about her, the scene in "Name of the Doctor" was a powerful showing of that affection.
Reply or Fourth: I didn't know what your rant on the British social system had to do with the gender the Doctor should play. I see the name and realize she was advocating a woman Doctor (I think, I'm unsure).
I agree, someone being a knight, lord (and female title equivelents) shouldn't matter more than an ever day person, but that goes for celebrities, politicians, and SJWs wanting the Doctor to be female
I was just talking to my friend about how funny it would be if The Doctor regenerated as a ginger woman and have him be really excited that hes ginger but be completely oblivious to the fact that hes now female.
It's fair to say that what I said sounded like statements of fact. They were all my opinion, except for the Matt Smith thing. Like I said, I could have sworn I read he was gay and that was my own misinformation.Brockyman said:Um, if people just ignored things on the internet, this forum wouldn't exist, so yeah, I commented.Baresark said:
Hostile is a bit of an overstatement... Hostile would have been like when another poster said he wanted Moffet to have a heart attack. I don't wish ill will on you, at all, but you noted things that aren't true. Some of the things are opinion and I respect that, but you presented them as facts, so I showed you that you weren't factually correct.
Reply to First: You said "All the Doctors have been frail". Granted I didn't read every post that responded to you, but you didn't say "in my experience" or "in my opinion". Your quote was stated as fact, which is untrue, and I presented evidence of it. If you think that healthy people like David Tennent, Chris Eccleston and Matt Smith are "frail" (weak, delicate, feeble), then we have different definitions of the word. Heck, Capaldi even looks quite spry being in his 60s!
Reply to Second: Again, another opinion. I could call up the times in the season they showed it, and all the fan fiction, stories, memes, ect, but I don't think that will matter. Could bring up how Ten was the saddest after Rose was lost in "Pete's World", and how that effected his relationships with Martha, Jack, and Donna. Could also bring up Journey's End when the Meta Crisis Doctor ended up with Rose (if he had no interest, I'm sure they would have kissed an such). But yeah, there wasn't any ANY sign... Again,
Reply to Third: Thank you for owning up to the Matt Smith error. Would have been better if you had said "I think Matt Smith maybe gay or bi" instead of stating it as a fact. Not that sexual orientation is something to be ashamed of, but it's mighty inappropriate to call some the wrong one without knowing the facts.
As far as the Doctor's marriage, yeah, we didn't actually see the Doctor and River in coitus (which Doctor Who never really shows anything over kissing), but the way the characters interact and the innuendo used by River when talking about the Doctor does show a form of familiarity that a husband and wife would have. So, not proven, but Eleven did show that he really cared about her, the scene in "Name of the Doctor" was a powerful showing of that affection.
Reply or Fourth: I didn't know what your rant on the British social system had to do with the gender the Doctor should play. I see the name and realize she was advocating a woman Doctor (I think, I'm unsure).
I agree, someone being a knight, lord (and female title equivelents) shouldn't matter more than an ever day person, but that goes for celebrities, politicians, and SJWs wanting the Doctor to be female
In my defense, "frail" is a value scale judgement. I am 250 lbs and lift weights 5 days a week for years now. I also have a background in self defense and MMA. Most people look frail next to me (as a personal opinion), even if they may not be. But, any of the more frail doctors next a 15 year old would not look so frail. If I were 12, Peter Capaldi would look physically daunting to me.
Also, I remember all the parts you brought up about Tenant. I know they were supposed to be in love, but they could not have looked less in love in my opinion. The actress who played River Song played it off much better than Matt Smith did, but a kiss here and there doesn't mean much. The fact they were married was always kind of mind blowing since they were traveling in reverse directions through time from each other. How could they hope to consummate said marriage when they crossed paths and it was always life or death. I will say... it's kind of strange to use fan fiction as a source (you mentioned it in passing). I'm a bit surprised we never saw a bit more if for no other reason than in Torchwood, it was basically softcore porn.
But, I digress. Thanks for the corrections and giving me something more to think about.
![jFr[e]ak93](https://eg-forums-escapist-data.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/data/avatars/l/91/91030.jpg?1620781506){kind=avatar}
All good bro. I'm 32, 260 and don't lift as much, but I'm a big guy, so I see your point.Baresark said:It's fair to say that what I said sounded like statements of fact. They were all my opinion, except for the Matt Smith thing. Like I said, I could have sworn I read he was gay and that was my own misinformation.Brockyman said:Um, if people just ignored things on the internet, this forum wouldn't exist, so yeah, I commented.Baresark said:
Hostile is a bit of an overstatement... Hostile would have been like when another poster said he wanted Moffet to have a heart attack. I don't wish ill will on you, at all, but you noted things that aren't true. Some of the things are opinion and I respect that, but you presented them as facts, so I showed you that you weren't factually correct.
Reply to First: You said "All the Doctors have been frail". Granted I didn't read every post that responded to you, but you didn't say "in my experience" or "in my opinion". Your quote was stated as fact, which is untrue, and I presented evidence of it. If you think that healthy people like David Tennent, Chris Eccleston and Matt Smith are "frail" (weak, delicate, feeble), then we have different definitions of the word. Heck, Capaldi even looks quite spry being in his 60s!
Reply to Second: Again, another opinion. I could call up the times in the season they showed it, and all the fan fiction, stories, memes, ect, but I don't think that will matter. Could bring up how Ten was the saddest after Rose was lost in "Pete's World", and how that effected his relationships with Martha, Jack, and Donna. Could also bring up Journey's End when the Meta Crisis Doctor ended up with Rose (if he had no interest, I'm sure they would have kissed an such). But yeah, there wasn't any ANY sign... Again,
Reply to Third: Thank you for owning up to the Matt Smith error. Would have been better if you had said "I think Matt Smith maybe gay or bi" instead of stating it as a fact. Not that sexual orientation is something to be ashamed of, but it's mighty inappropriate to call some the wrong one without knowing the facts.
As far as the Doctor's marriage, yeah, we didn't actually see the Doctor and River in coitus (which Doctor Who never really shows anything over kissing), but the way the characters interact and the innuendo used by River when talking about the Doctor does show a form of familiarity that a husband and wife would have. So, not proven, but Eleven did show that he really cared about her, the scene in "Name of the Doctor" was a powerful showing of that affection.
Reply or Fourth: I didn't know what your rant on the British social system had to do with the gender the Doctor should play. I see the name and realize she was advocating a woman Doctor (I think, I'm unsure).
I agree, someone being a knight, lord (and female title equivelents) shouldn't matter more than an ever day person, but that goes for celebrities, politicians, and SJWs wanting the Doctor to be female
In my defense, "frail" is a value scale judgement. I am 250 lbs and lift weights 5 days a week for years now. I also have a background in self defense and MMA. Most people look frail next to me (as a personal opinion), even if they may not be. But, any of the more frail doctors next a 15 year old would not look so frail. If I were 12, Peter Capaldi would look physically daunting to me.
Also, I remember all the parts you brought up about Tenant. I know they were supposed to be in love, but they could not have looked less in love in my opinion. The actress who played River Song played it off much better than Matt Smith did, but a kiss here and there doesn't mean much. The fact they were married was always kind of mind blowing since they were traveling in reverse directions through time from each other. How could they hope to consummate said marriage when they crossed paths and it was always life or death. I will say... it's kind of strange to use fan fiction as a source (you mentioned it in passing). I'm a bit surprised we never saw a bit more if for no other reason than in Torchwood, it was basically softcore porn.
But, I digress. Thanks for the corrections and giving me something more to think about.
Have a good one!
Um, yeah you can. I just gave you the examples. Superman has to be male, he's Superman, that's the character. Sometimes characters are just male or female. They added the gender change to the canon so if the Doctor is female, it makes sense, but all I'm saying is find the best person...Zachary Amaranth said:
If Peter Capaldi is doing a good job and isn't ready to leave, don't replace him.
If he leaves, don't just throw any female into the role for the "checklist", search and audition many males and females (b/c the character can be male or female) and the best person win