Doctor Who May Head Towards a Woman as the Doctor

[Something Amyss]

I just gave you the examples.

That contradict the sentiment. All these mental gymnastics you're doing complaining about SJWs when you seem to be the one with the issue. Hell, you're actively complaining that Moffat shouldn't have done this.

 

[Brockyman]

I just gave you the examples.

That contradict the sentiment. All these mental gymnastics you're doing complaining about SJWs when you seem to be the one with the issue. Hell, you're actively complaining that Moffat shouldn't have done this.

No, it didn't contradict the statement... Some characters are male and some are female. You don't traditionally change character gender.

As far as me being "mad" about it, I think it was done for SJW reasons, nothing to do with creativity or original story telling. Instead of coming up with fresh ideas, characters and stories, they want us to change the gender of one of the most iconic, long lasting characters in sci-fi, or television in general.

If Moffet and crew were sitting around and thought about it organically with new ideas that it could bring, than I would be just fine with it, but the fact I've seen these "news" stories and articles for the last 5 years means they are bowing to unneeded, unjustified SJW pressure.

And, not only is it stupid to try to change the Doctor's gender for "checklist" reasons, but it's also a slap in the face to all the strong, well written female characters that have been on the show... like they are good enough. Barabra, Clara, Rose, Martha, Donna, Ace, and Sarah Jane. Were they not good role models and strong characters?

I'm not gamegate. I'm not threatening women in industry or denying issues or tropes, but the solution is less whining, less demand of change in existing stories, and creating new stories. You don't censor or ban Grand Theft Auto, you make ANOTHER property and let market decide what it wants to play. You don't make Spiderman or Batman a lady, you create a new superhero. I know there use to be a male Captain Marvel, but he died in an organic story way (they cancelled the comic), and she took up the mantle later on. That's called storytelling.

But.... as long as it's well done, with a great actress, I'm not going to stop watching Doctor Who if the character is female

 

[FalloutJack]

This is fine so long as the character is still most-definitely 'Doctor' in attitude.

 

[DrOswald]

even Dame Helen Mirren [http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-07-03/dame-helen-mirren-a-gay-black-female-doctor-who-would-be-the-best-of-all] asked for a new Doctor who was a woman, black, or gay - preferably all three.

It'd be a diversity triple whammy!

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

I don't watch Dr. Who, so take what I'm about to say with the appropriate amount of salt.

While the whole shapeshifting-regeneration aspect of Dr. Who does make this possible in lore from my limited understanding (countering my usual gripe with gender / racial swaps), I can't help but feel like this would be a ***** to write properly for one main reason: Every incarnation of the Doctor is suppose to all be the same alien-person, meaning that the character would have to be written in a way that appropriately respects that fact. The character would have to believably act like someone who has been a man countless times but is now female, and thus couldn't be written quite like an ordinary woman. I believe that the Doctor does undergo some personality shifts during the regenerative process, but that can only be taken so far before the suspension of disbelief falls apart.

Could they write such a character in an effective and believable manner? If the above comments about Moffat are true, then I'm going to guess not.

 

[Something Amyss]

As far as me being "mad" about it, I think it was done for SJW reasons, nothing to do with creativity or original story telling.

That you're tilting at the SJW bogeyman makes my point. It's a cop-out.

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't watch Dr. Who, so take what I'm about to say with the appropriate amount of salt.

Done and done.

Well, they just had a female regeneration of The Master that people seemed to like, so I'd say it doesn't have to strain disbelief.

I'd also say that a character who has never been particularly self aware about other aspects of individual forms is probably a bad time to bring up issues of gender swap. Now, maybe this is some bizarre form of "Time Lord Privilege," but honestly, The Doctor already bucks so many social norms I have trouble seeing this one as being worth batting an eyelash at. We're also talking about a character who was largely asexual until the revived series, so even less so?

This is fine so long as the character is still most-definitely 'Doctor' in attitude.

In a continuity with William Hartnell, John Pertwee, and Chrisopher Eccleston all as the same character, what does that even mean, though?

It'd be a diversity triple whammy!

I would win my SJW fantasy league!

 

[Single Shot]

Some days I really hope Muppet, I mean Moffat, has a heart attack and can't write anymore. He wrote a passable "hipster/twat" for the last few incarnations but every side character has been one dimensional and flat. Capaldi doctor has been horribly treated in favour of building up a Clara arc that isn't going anywhere, and the lizbians seem to highlight his inability to write women characters, relationships, and with consistent tone perfectly.

If he does this we'll just end up with generic eccentric girl #2536 complete with standard "believe in yourself" or "be empowered" story arc. Hell, I'd prefer they made Commander Strax the next incarnation than that since he is the only character that fits his role and makes sense in it. It'd be nice to have a Sontaran doctor for a change. It might make the episodes a little shorter though.

1. The fact that you wished a physical aliment on a man b/c you dislike his writing is pretty damn pathetic. It's funny the mods will get mad at people for "making fun" of others, but the fact that you wished something that horrible on someone makes your opinion and humanity less than valid. You could just say "retires, moves on, ect" and gotten the same effect>

2. River Song, Clara Oswald, Madam Vastra, or Jenni have hardly been "flat" characters. Now, I agree that the supporting characters in some of the stories have been, but great development isn't needed for someone that's in 45mins of TV. HE also created the Weeping Angels that fan girls go nuts over for some reason.

3. I know that it was probably for a joke, but the Doctor can't be a sontaran, they can only regenerate into a Time Lord body, and genetically become human thru their fob watch. That's it

IF you don't like the show, don't watch it. Moffet doesn't owe you anything and probably can't hear your whining through all that money he has.

Did I run over your dog or something? Calm down.

1) It's a figure of speech, don't take everything so seriously because one day hyperbole will kick your ass.

2) River - 'the mysterious one' to the point any decision she made could be explained as either 'she must know something we don't' or 'I don't know', Clara - The 'Dr Vs Danny' arc was her only character and now that's over (I'd even go so far as to say Danny's army days and the conflict they caused in his behaviors during that arc made his character more rounded than Clara, we even got to see his past and future incarnation to explain where he came from and what he could become) Without that arc she's just the disproving child again, Vestra - Lesbian lizard (part 1 of the lizbians and the dominant half), Jenny - The subservient half of the lizbians (Part 2).

Of those 4 you chose as examples only one has had any real character development, and only one has developed anything even remotely resembling a complex back-story. River bailed as soon as her character could have been explained without giving away a related plot point, and the Lizbians are terribly written and most of the time just don't fit/aren't needed for the storys they randomly appear in, making them feel like a gimmick.

3) It was a joke, although I was serious when I said it would make a great series. Strax has a personality simple enough Muppet can keep him consistent, a backstory that seems interesting in the 3 off-hand comments we've heard about it, and as a Sontaran he's opposed to change enough Moffat could hide his inability to write character arcs. I'd love to see a Strax spin-off.

4) You're right, Moffet doesn't need to cater to my every whim, but I have the right to share my views as much as you have the right to disagree. If you can't take criticism of your favorite show you also have the right to not read what I post. It's amazing how that works for everyone isn't it.

5) If you want to call someone out for 'whining' it's probably best not to be whining about their comment in the first place.

 

[DrOswald]

As far as me being "mad" about it, I think it was done for SJW reasons, nothing to do with creativity or original story telling.

That you're tilting at the SJW bogeyman makes my point. It's a cop-out.

Well, Zach, you have to admit that at this point there is a ton of external pressure to change the gender of the doctor purely for reasons of diversity and inclusiveness. Dame Helen Mirren did not ask for a female doctor because she thought it would be an interesting for the character development of the doctor, she asked because she wants more diversity on TV. And that is a laudable goal, something we should certainly strive for. But I can also see why some people might think this sort of external pressure crosses over into "diversity quota" territory. I mean, Helen Mirren specifically asked for a doctor that was black OR gay OR female OR any combination of the above 3. I think you would be hard pressed to find a more clear example of check box diversity.

Now, I disagree that it is a case of "diversity quota" because of the softness of the request. No one (that I know of) is yet saying that not changing the doctors gender/race/sexual preferences would be sexist/racist/homophobic. They just think it would be a good idea, and I agree.

 

[Brockyman]

Some days I really hope Muppet, I mean Moffat, has a heart attack and can't write anymore. He wrote a passable "hipster/twat" for the last few incarnations but every side character has been one dimensional and flat. Capaldi doctor has been horribly treated in favour of building up a Clara arc that isn't going anywhere, and the lizbians seem to highlight his inability to write women characters, relationships, and with consistent tone perfectly.

If he does this we'll just end up with generic eccentric girl #2536 complete with standard "believe in yourself" or "be empowered" story arc. Hell, I'd prefer they made Commander Strax the next incarnation than that since he is the only character that fits his role and makes sense in it. It'd be nice to have a Sontaran doctor for a change. It might make the episodes a little shorter though.

1. The fact that you wished a physical aliment on a man b/c you dislike his writing is pretty damn pathetic. It's funny the mods will get mad at people for "making fun" of others, but the fact that you wished something that horrible on someone makes your opinion and humanity less than valid. You could just say "retires, moves on, ect" and gotten the same effect>

2. River Song, Clara Oswald, Madam Vastra, or Jenni have hardly been "flat" characters. Now, I agree that the supporting characters in some of the stories have been, but great development isn't needed for someone that's in 45mins of TV. HE also created the Weeping Angels that fan girls go nuts over for some reason.

3. I know that it was probably for a joke, but the Doctor can't be a sontaran, they can only regenerate into a Time Lord body, and genetically become human thru their fob watch. That's it

IF you don't like the show, don't watch it. Moffet doesn't owe you anything and probably can't hear your whining through all that money he has.

Did I run over your dog or something? Calm down.

1) It's a figure of speech, don't take everything so seriously because one day hyperbole will kick your ass.

2) River - 'the mysterious one' to the point any decision she made could be explained as either 'she must know something we don't' or 'I don't know', Clara - The 'Dr Vs Danny' arc was her only character and now that's over (I'd even go so far as to say Danny's army days and the conflict they caused in his behaviors during that arc made his character more rounded than Clara, we even got to see his past and future incarnation to explain where he came from and what he could become) Without that arc she's just the disproving child again, Vestra - Lesbian lizard (part 1 of the lizbians and the dominant half), Jenny - The subservient half of the lizbians (Part 2).

Of those 4 you chose as examples only one has had any real character development, and only one has developed anything even remotely resembling a complex back-story. River bailed as soon as her character could have been explained without giving away a related plot point, and the Lizbians are terribly written and most of the time just don't fit/aren't needed for the storys they randomly appear in, making them feel like a gimmick.

3) It was a joke, although I was serious when I said it would make a great series. Strax has a personality simple enough Muppet can keep him consistent, a backstory that seems interesting in the 3 off-hand comments we've heard about it, and as a Sontaran he's opposed to change enough Moffat could hide his inability to write character arcs. I'd love to see a Strax spin-off.

4) You're right, Moffet doesn't need to cater to my every whim, but I have the right to share my views as much as you have the right to disagree. If you can't take criticism of your favorite show you also have the right to not read what I post. It's amazing how that works for everyone isn't it.

5) If you want to call someone out for 'whining' it's probably best not to be whining about their comment in the first place.

Sorry, but hyperbole of that nature just gets to me as its so real to so many people. If you had said something more satirical, I probably would have laughed my ass off and not even responded to the post at all.

The rest of the angry nature came from that part, along with all the super whining I hear about Moffet all the damn time, it just gets old to me. He's not perfect but he isn't nearly as bad as he's billed. Many people bash him more than Micheal Bay and he's 10x worse than Moffet

 

[Brockyman]

As far as me being "mad" about it, I think it was done for SJW reasons, nothing to do with creativity or original story telling.

That you're tilting at the SJW bogeyman makes my point. It's a cop-out.

No, it isn't a cop out. I listed many reasons why. The cop out is yours for wanting to paint me into a corner when I'm pointing out something that deserves to be pointed out. I wish I had you as an opponent on a debare team

 

[Brockyman]

As far as me being "mad" about it, I think it was done for SJW reasons, nothing to do with creativity or original story telling.

That you're tilting at the SJW bogeyman makes my point. It's a cop-out.

Well, Zach, you have to admit that at this point there is a ton of external pressure to change the gender of the doctor purely for reasons of diversity and inclusiveness. Dame Helen Mirren did not ask for a female doctor because she thought it would be an interesting for the character development of the doctor, she asked because she wants more diversity on TV. And that is a laudable goal, something we should certainly strive for. But I can also see why some people might think this sort of external pressure crosses over into "diversity quota" territory. I mean, Helen Mirren specifically asked for a doctor that was black OR gay OR female OR any combination of the above 3. I think you would be hard pressed to find a more clear example of check box diversity.

Now, I disagree that it is a case of "diversity quota" because of the softness of the request. No one (that I know of) is yet saying that not changing the doctors gender/race/sexual preferences would be sexist/racist/homophobic. They just think it would be a good idea, and I agree.[/quote

There have been a few posts that I've responded to on the forum that have alluded to the fact the doctor is always 'a British white dude' along with 'how many females had read for the part'.

I'm not a mysogonist, homophobe, or racist. If there is a great story that grew organically along with a great actor/actress that can do a great job, I have no real issue with it, now that there is a canonical reason. However it doesn't look like that. I also doubt Mirren is the main reason this came up. I've seen fan speculation and cries for this before I saw her statement

True diversity in media will come with new organic, intelligent and creative ideas and story telling, not repurposing existing material

 

[Single Shot]

Snippy

Fair enough, he definitely gets more hate than he deserves on the Micheal Bay scale but I think that's because he's failed to find a target audience. You see a Bay film and you know exactly what you're going to get, explosions and 'MERICA served up with a dose of slow-mo and doves. If that's all you want Bay is exactly what you need. Moffet on the other hand doesn't really have that consistent target audience so even though he's not as bad (still pretty bad though), he gets more hate.

 

[FalloutJack]

Foom!

I can actually explain that. While the personalties may differ, there are certain things about the Doctor that have always remained. Before anything else, he has always been curious, scientific, and 'an idiot in a box with a screwdriver'. (Hartnell didn't have the screwdriver, but it was something that Troughton had.) He's a strange man who comes in a box to fix things in his own sort of way.

 

[The Lunatic]

The writing is already pretty bad, this just seems like it'd make it even worse.

You're essentially asking the writing team to completely change the gender of a well-established character in order to cater to a small group of people.

That's probably going to have some affect on the quality of things. Taking writers out of their depth and removing established traits is usually quite bad for a character's development.

But, I guess it can't get much worse than it is presently.

So, while, I guess it sounds like it'd be completely awful, it's their choice.

Female master was pretty "Eh". Yeah, Michelle Gomez did a rather good job, but, ultimately, it didn't feel anything like "The Master" but instead a new villain.

Really, it seems they'd be better off testing the waters with a spin-off rather than suddenly and dramatically changing a character who has existed for decades at this point.

 

[Gone Rampant]

That's cool, but let's no get too ahead of ourselves. Peter Capladi's only just started, and I reckon he's shaping up to be one of the best.

Drop Clara and I'll agree completely. Capaldi's just begun and he's bloody brilliant- let's give him another season or two BEFORE getting him worried that he'll be replaced.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Can you have a female Doctor Who? Yes you can. But the question is do you need to have a female doctor? What would she add to the character that a male actor lacks? A change is great but if its just done for cosmetic reasons then whats the point?

I guess they could give the reins to his helper for a few episodes - that might be interesting to see? Though the idea of Helen Mirrem as the Dr is an idea i like.

 

[Something Amyss]

Foom!

I can actually explain that. While the personalties may differ, there are certain things about the Doctor that have always remained. Before anything else, he has always been curious, scientific, and 'an idiot in a box with a screwdriver'. (Hartnell didn't have the screwdriver, but it was something that Troughton had.) He's a strange man who comes in a box to fix things in his own sort of way.

Well, that should be easy to do.

Except for Moffat, because it doesn't fit into the three type of women he can write.

Edit: Well, two.

Well, 1.5.