Does Trump have a motor disorder?

Eacaraxe

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I think this is an argument in favor of disclosure of medical conditions that a President suffers and how they are treated. Having a condition that is potentially detrimental to your cognitive processes is in the public interest when you're the person with the most vested power in the country and the public appointed you.
More to the point, what ought to be a question that should have an obvious and easily-agreed-to answer, is exaggerated to a needless degree and mutated into a partisan issue year after year.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that in one of the big allied powers conferences in WW2 towards the end, Churchill was frustrated because Roosevelt (clearly reaching the end) seemed extremely listless and was ineffectual at resisting Stalin's constant demands. That's not exactly ideal in a president.
*cough*insistingonfightingeverywherebutcontinentalEuropefortwoyearstocontroltheSuezCanalwhiletheSovietsfoughtandwonthewar*cough*

Sorry, I had something caught in my throat.
 

Schadrach

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, is exaggerated to a needless degree and mutated into a partisan issue year after year.
I mean, everything is.

In this particular case, it's because you want to use your opponents health situation against them, but not have your own used against you.
 
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Agema

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The only reason I wouldn't just call this whole thing bullshit is because apparently even before the media really started caring he started tweeting excuses for it. But, this is pretty close to the stupid bullshit side of news that you are better off just ignoring.
In this particular case, it's because you want to use your opponents health situation against them, but not have your own used against you.
Oh, I totally think Biden merits careful scrutiny, too. He doesn't appear to be firing on all cylinders.

The medical conditions of high ranking officials or candidates is I think an important issue.

Fundamentally, I think a cornerstone of healthy democracy is informed choice. Knowing that a candidate or official has a condition that significantly affects their capabilities - particularly a degenerative one where it can be expected to worsen - is a reasonable thing voters could be expected to know. I accept that a baseline has to be that a candidate or official has the same human right to privacy of their medical records that anyone does: we cannot force them to reveal it. But I think it is a sort of fraud to tell us to vote for X for a term of office, whilst being denied the knowledge that X is almost certainly going to be far less competent and even need to be replaced after a much shorter period than that.
 
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Hades

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Garner was a do-nothing machine politician concerned only with his own position who was against New Deal policies before we was for them as a matter of political convenience, and FDR dumped him against party bosses' will for being a useless sack of manure. Wallace and FDR did not like each other but had mutual respect and worked exceptionally well together, FDR gave Wallace more power and more say than was customary for any VP before him, and FDR wanted him as VP in the event FDR should die in office because FDR and Wallace strongly aligned on policy positions.

Party bosses revolted against FDR and popular support, to nominate Truman as FDR's running mate against FDR's will, in one of the most historic and notorious floor fights in Democratic convention history. Because Wallace supported ending segregation.
Its funny. Rooseveld didn't want, like or respect Truman and apparently did very little to prepare him but it still ended up an extremely lucky shot. By most accounts Truman is listed as one of the more successful presidents.
 
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CaitSeith

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No more or less than the President with a bad back who spent his entire term in office doped to the gills on painkillers and uppers, the one with paralytic polio, or the one with Alzheimer's syndrome.
All of them had a clear diagnosis. So what's Trump been diagnosed of?
 

Specter Von Baren

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Its funny. Rooseveld didn't want, like or respect Truman and apparently did very little to prepare him but it still ended up an extremely lucky shot. By most accounts Truman is listed as one of the more successful presidents.
Our country was very fortunate to get a more down to earth person as the president in that time.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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The only reason I wouldn't just call this whole thing bullshit is because apparently even before the media really started caring he started tweeting excuses for it. But, this is pretty close to the stupid bullshit side of news that you are better off just ignoring.
I mean Mainstream media weren't talking about Hillary being ill while less mainstream sources were suggesting something was wrong up to 2 weeks before hand. Hell even when she collapsed it was being passed off as nothing / heatstroke initially too.
 

Tireseas

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I'm going to echo what I've heard from some disability advocates on this subject: if he does, so what? (they've also been very critical of similar attacks on Biden)

Now, cognitive dysfunction and decline, that's a serious concern, especially given his erraticism in general, which was serious enough for some doctors to break professional codes of conduct to raise the alarm and nearly cause a 25th Amendment situation near the beginning of this presidency. I would be shocked, given how he has behaved since even before his presidency, that he would not have some kind of decline given the stress the position puts on healthy presidents (he remains the first president in my lifetime to not go from colored hair to grey hair during their first term, though that is likely due to his hair plugs).
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I mean Mainstream media weren't talking about Hillary being ill while less mainstream sources were suggesting something was wrong up to 2 weeks before hand. Hell even when she collapsed it was being passed off as nothing / heatstroke initially too.
Less mainstream ones were suggesting she would be dead within a week. So you will forgive me if I call them totally bullshit and ignore everything they say.

Oh, I totally think Biden merits careful scrutiny, too. He doesn't appear to be firing on all cylinders.

The medical conditions of high ranking officials or candidates is I think an important issue.

Fundamentally, I think a cornerstone of healthy democracy is informed choice. Knowing that a candidate or official has a condition that significantly affects their capabilities - particularly a degenerative one where it can be expected to worsen - is a reasonable thing voters could be expected to know. I accept that a baseline has to be that a candidate or official has the same human right to privacy of their medical records that anyone does: we cannot force them to reveal it. But I think it is a sort of fraud to tell us to vote for X for a term of office, whilst being denied the knowledge that X is almost certainly going to be far less competent and even need to be replaced after a much shorter period than that.
If you wanted someone younger then you should have gotten more of the younguns to go out and vote for them. But, young people don't vote, old people do.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Less mainstream ones were suggesting she would be dead within a week. So you will forgive me if I call them totally bullshit and ignore everything they say.
Thing is there was an element of truth even if the claims etc were exaggerated.
 

MrCalavera

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If you wanted someone younger then you should have gotten more of the younguns to go out and vote for them. But, young people don't vote, old people do.
Who would that younger candidate be? Sanders, who was overwhelmingly supported by young electorate, is himself ancient, and even that support wasn't enough to push him to the top, as you like to point out. All the top candidates in this race were over 70.

Thing is there was an element of truth even if the claims etc were exaggerated.
That can be be said about literally any piece of tabloid punditry being published out there. Those that aren't outright lies that is.
 

Agema

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I'm going to echo what I've heard from some disability advocates on this subject: if he does, so what? (they've also been very critical of similar attacks on Biden)
For most disabilities, it wouldn't matter. Being wheelchair-bound (for instance) doesn't stop a president doing the important parts of his job.

Now, cognitive dysfunction and decline, that's a serious concern...
Yes, and that's exactly what I mean. mere ageing I wouldn't count: voters should implicitly understand that a candidate of advanced years is not going to be at their peak. But a disorder which can involve very significant deterioration during the course of a term of office is a different matter.
 

Seanchaidh

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I'm going to echo what I've heard from some disability advocates on this subject: if he does, so what? (they've also been very critical of similar attacks on Biden)

Now, cognitive dysfunction and decline, that's a serious concern,
That's typically what observations about Biden have been about.
 

CaitSeith

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If Trump had a degenerative terminal disease, he'd probably blame the Democrats for it.
 

Agema

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If Trump had a degenerative terminal disease, he'd probably blame the Democrats for it.
Or that it was the GREATEST degenerative disease any president has ever had.
 

Eacaraxe

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Its funny. Rooseveld didn't want, like or respect Truman and apparently did very little to prepare him but it still ended up an extremely lucky shot. By most accounts Truman is listed as one of the more successful presidents.
If by successful you mean inheriting leadership of one of the only economies not razed to the ground at war's end, still nearly managing to screw that up by proceeding with the Morgenthau plan before letting rational adults make policy decisions, stacking the cabinet and alphabet agencies with war profiteers and Nazi sympathizers (not that those are exclusive to one another), boldly setting the course of history by launching a half-century-long pointless cold war...sure, I guess. That's not to say he didn't have good policy proposals, the Fair Deal for one, but once again southern Democrats proved themselves beyond doubt the biggest pricks in the country.

Who would that younger candidate be? Sanders, who was overwhelmingly supported by young electorate, is himself ancient, and even that support wasn't enough to push him to the top, as you like to point out. All the top candidates in this race were over 70.
In the old forums Agema and I had a brief but really interesting conversation about this, and parallels to the Soviet Union in the '80s. Namely, that in the case of the Soviet Union, it's ossified and ailing gerontocracy heralded its own failure, leaving the question open as to whether the United States may suffer a similar fate along the same time frame. The only problem being, the US doesn't have an ace in the hole the way the USSR did in the '80s (Siberian fossil fuels).
 

Specter Von Baren

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If by successful you mean inheriting leadership of one of the only economies not razed to the ground at war's end, still nearly managing to screw that up by proceeding with the Morgenthau plan before letting rational adults make policy decisions, stacking the cabinet and alphabet agencies with war profiteers and Nazi sympathizers (not that those are exclusive to one another), boldly setting the course of history by launching a half-century-long pointless cold war...sure, I guess. That's not to say he didn't have good policy proposals, the Fair Deal for one, but once again southern Democrats proved themselves beyond doubt the biggest pricks in the country.
Truman never approved the Morgenthau plan though. Gonna need a citation of Truman deliberately putting war profiteers and Nazi sympathizers in his cabinet for being such. I'm not sure where your idea that Truman caused the Cold War is coming from.

In the old forums Agema and I had a brief but really interesting conversation about this, and parallels to the Soviet Union in the '80s. Namely, that in the case of the Soviet Union, it's ossified and ailing gerontocracy heralded its own failure, leaving the question open as to whether the United States may suffer a similar fate along the same time frame. The only problem being, the US doesn't have an ace in the hole the way the USSR did in the '80s (Siberian fossil fuels).
If you think the only reason the Soviet Union failed was because it had old people in its government then I can only conclude that you don't read much.
 
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Hades

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If by successful you mean inheriting leadership of one of the only economies not razed to the ground at war's end, still nearly managing to screw that up by proceeding with the Morgenthau plan before letting rational adults make policy decisions, stacking the cabinet and alphabet agencies with war profiteers and Nazi sympathizers (not that those are exclusive to one another), boldly setting the course of history by launching a half-century-long pointless cold war...sure, I guess. That's not to say he didn't have good policy proposals, the Fair Deal for one, but once again southern Democrats proved themselves beyond doubt the biggest pricks in the country.
Sure Rooseveld left him a strong hand but worse leaders have failed with far better hands. Being able to identify and make use of your strong position is a sign of good leadership. A worse person could have wasted that chance. And with Truman not being prepared at all it wasn't a guarantee that he could handle the office of president. I'm also not too sure the cold war was pointless. Soviet Russia wasn't exactly a peaceful entity that could be trusted when left to their own devices. And Truman had to content with Stalin, pretty much the worst of the worst as far as Soviets go.