Donald and Melania Trump Test Positive for Covid

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I imagine Pelosi knows it won't pass, and she's only pursuing this avenue because it'll play well among the people who matter. The Democratic voterbase expect her and the DNC to pursue every avenue open to them, regardless of how likely they are to be successful in the American political system. If she doesn't pursue this approach, she'll be seen as complicit.
I don't even think it would play well there. I mean impeachment only kinda did despite how loud the left were yelling for it and trump still got a boost from it. Same situation here if she actually does try and do it.
 

Seanchaidh

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I don't even think it would play well there. I mean impeachment only kinda did despite how loud the left were yelling for it and trump still got a boost from it. Same situation here if she actually does try and do it.
They did impeachment quite stupidly, weirdly narrowing the issue to the only part that had anything to do with Joe Biden-- and didn't make him look good.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
They did impeachment quite stupidly, weirdly narrowing the issue to the only part that had anything to do with Joe Biden-- and didn't make him look good.
Because it didn't matter. Republicans were never going to vote to impeach, just getting them to even hear witnesses was a huge issue. The turtle wanted to just do a vote straight up when it got to them.

Not to mention that there tend to not be many charges brought up with impeachment. Clinton only had 2 charges brought up against him, perjury and obstruction of justice.

Even Nixon only had 3 articles brought up against him, obstruction of justice, abuse of power and contempt of congress.
 

Seanchaidh

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Because it didn't matter. Republicans were never going to vote to impeach, just getting them to even hear witnesses was a huge issue. The turtle wanted to just do a vote straight up when it got to them.

Not to mention that there tend to not be many charges brought up with impeachment. Clinton only had 2 charges brought up against him, perjury and obstruction of justice.

Even Nixon only had 3 articles brought up against him, obstruction of justice, abuse of power and contempt of congress.
They should have charged him with everything relevant, not just the shit that can easily be framed as Nancy Pelosi getting angry about Donald Trump threatening the nepotism and corruption of families of Democratic Party officials.

They could have gone after his racist speeches: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...recedent-andrew-johnson-proves-it-ncna1035951

They could have gone after him on both the domestic and foreign emoluments clauses.

They could have gone after him on fraud.

They could have gone after him about kids in cages as the practice is both torture and a violation of international law.

They could have gone after him for launching air strikes against Syria without Congressional approval.

And they didn't. They only seemed to care about the President using his office to try to dig up dirt on one at the time potential presidential candidate. The other stuff, we may assume, does not matter that much to them. He's a fascist! He won't respect the results of the election! Also, let's not impeach him for anything terrifically important and let's enhance his surveillance powers and dump money on his military. The contradiction between rhetoric and action is so transparent that it approaches the absurd.
 

Agema

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They should have charged him with everything relevant, not just the shit that can easily be framed as Nancy Pelosi getting angry about Donald Trump threatening the nepotism and corruption of families of Democratic Party officials.

They could have gone after his racist speeches: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...recedent-andrew-johnson-proves-it-ncna1035951

They could have gone after him on both the domestic and foreign emoluments clauses.

They could have gone after him on fraud.

They could have gone after him about kids in cages as the practice is both torture and a violation of international law.

They could have gone after him for launching air strikes against Syria without Congressional approval.

And they didn't. They only seemed to care about the President using his office to try to dig up dirt on one at the time potential presidential candidate. The other stuff, we may assume, does not matter that much to them. He's a fascist! He won't respect the results of the election! Also, let's not impeach him for anything terrifically important and let's enhance his surveillance powers and dump money on his military. The contradiction between rhetoric and action is so transparent that it approaches the absurd.
No, they couldn't practically have gone after him for most of those things.

Some would have been viewed as outrageous by the wider public at large and been public relations disasters. Some would have been much wider attacks on the executive itself (air attacks without Congressional approval) that would not only have implicitly tarnished earlier presidents, but also tied their own hands with a Democratic president.

Fraud was a possible goer, except that Trump had already lost court cases and been made to pay a penalty, and standards of law would suggest the matter is therefore resolved and a second trial and punishment injustice. Other fraud cases were undergoing, but the evidence was not sufficiently avaialble. The domestic and foreign emoluments, however, may have been a reasonable shot.

Left-wing wank fantasies don't necessarily work well out there in the real world.
 
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tstorm823

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No, they couldn't practically have gone after him for most of those things.

Some would have been viewed as outrageous by the wider public at large and been public relations disasters. Some would have been much wider attacks on the executive itself (air attacks without Congressional approval) that would not only have implicitly tarnished earlier presidents, but also tied their own hands with a Democratic president.

Fraud was a possible goer, except that Trump had already lost court cases and been made to pay a penalty, and standards of law would suggest the matter is therefore resolved and a second trial and punishment injustice. Other fraud cases were undergoing, but the evidence was not sufficiently avaialble. The domestic and foreign emoluments, however, may have been a reasonable shot.

Left-wing wank fantasies don't necessarily work well out there in the real world.
100% all of this.

But on the subject of tying their hands with a Democratic president, it's worth analyzing the current scheme from the perspective of what it actually means to someone in Pelosi's position. Attacking the position of the president for doing things without Congress voting on it could be bad for Pelosi because she doesn't want to vote on those things. She wants them done without her being tied to it. This "25th Amendment" nonsense doesn't have that weakness, it doesn't limit what she can have a president do for her, it only limits what a president can do against her.

But also, those limits only exist with the support of the cabinet and vice president. There is no situation where Pelosi's panel declares a Republican president incompetent and the Republican cabinet and vice president just go along with it. They aren't going to join Pelosi in that unless the need is so obvious that this panel was irrelevant. No, the only way I see this being relevant is in the case that the House and presidency are the same party. Say, perhaps, just spitballing, you had elected a 78 year old who got voted in as the moderate option, and you could easily make the argument that he was losing his mental capabilities and bump him out for the vice president or maybe even the speaker of the house who would never be inclined to stand in the way of Pelosi's personal agenda.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
They should have charged him with everything relevant, not just the shit that can easily be framed as Nancy Pelosi getting angry about Donald Trump threatening the nepotism and corruption of families of Democratic Party officials.

They could have gone after his racist speeches: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...recedent-andrew-johnson-proves-it-ncna1035951

They could have gone after him on both the domestic and foreign emoluments clauses.

They could have gone after him on fraud.

They could have gone after him about kids in cages as the practice is both torture and a violation of international law.

They could have gone after him for launching air strikes against Syria without Congressional approval.

And they didn't. They only seemed to care about the President using his office to try to dig up dirt on one at the time potential presidential candidate. The other stuff, we may assume, does not matter that much to them. He's a fascist! He won't respect the results of the election! Also, let's not impeach him for anything terrifically important and let's enhance his surveillance powers and dump money on his military. The contradiction between rhetoric and action is so transparent that it approaches the absurd.
Racism is immoral but not illegal.

Emoluments is seen more as tradition then hard law.

Fraud might have been outside the purview of things. Not to mention to being really complicated to prove and above the head of most of the people and he was doing everything in his power to block access to financial records.

Technically kids in cages isn't really illegal either.

Even the air strikes in Syria isn't really illegal.

You seem to be under the assumption that republicans in the senate would have voted to impeach him. This is almost certainly false no matter what they brought against him. I mean its totally possible that trump is right when he said he could shoot someone in times square and get away with it. No, the impeachment was a show, it had no ability to be anything more than that and at the end of it we saw his approval ratings go up.
 

Shadyside

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Maybe this will swing lots of voters to vote against him. He comes across as gloating that nothing bad happened to him when catching the flu. Lots of people are being offended that he just assumes that everything is fine with this situation.
 

SilentPony

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Maybe this will swing lots of voters to vote against him. He comes across as gloating that nothing bad happened to him when catching the flu. Lots of people are being offended that he just assumes that everything is fine with this situation.
As an in-shape 29 year old it pisses me off to no end I got Covid for 2 months and was refused all treatment because this was January and Covid hadn't been officially recognized in the US so they refused to test me. I didn't find out later(I suspected) until I was tested for the antibodies and they found them.
And this little clown just get a cough for a day and they shove everything up is lard ass and he's back to gambling man Donald Trump in a week.
 
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Agema

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There is no situation where Pelosi's panel declares a Republican president incompetent and the Republican cabinet and vice president just go along with it.
I'm not really sure what Pelosi's game is here. I don't like Pelosi, I think she's one of those dead-eyed cynics who has spent so long playing politics she doesn't even really know what she's playing for any more. But she's very effective, in her way - parties need some people like her to get things done. What they don't need is people like her setting the agenda, because that agenda will be political points-scoring delivering little to the voters she's supposed to represent.
 

Avnger

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I'm not really sure what Pelosi's game is here. I don't like Pelosi, I think she's one of those dead-eyed cynics who has spent so long playing politics she doesn't even really know what she's playing for any more. But she's very effective, in her way - parties need some people like her to get things done. What they don't need is people like her setting the agenda, because that agenda will be political points-scoring delivering little to the voters she's supposed to represent.
At the same time, this panel might not be Pelosi's wish. One of the last things Democrats need this close to an election is party infighting; it could simply be she's throwing one faction a bone to get their agreement for something else. Like you said, she's a career politician with all the benefits and drawbacks that brings.
 

lil devils x

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Isn't she doing what Revnak was calling on her to do? There have been some pretty widespread calls for her to do exactly this..
 

Seanchaidh

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Racism is immoral but not illegal.
Impeachment has not historically required a specific statutory crime. Did you read the link I posted about that very subject at all?

Emoluments is seen more as tradition then hard law.
It's literally in the constitution.


and the domestic emoluments clause is Article 2 Section 1 Clause 7:

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.
This is admittedly a less strong case than the foreign emoluments clause, but it's arguable.

Fraud might have been outside the purview of things. Not to mention to being really complicated to prove and above the head of most of the people and he was doing everything in his power to block access to financial records.
He has literally been settling numerous cases accusing him of fraud.

Technically kids in cages isn't really illegal either.
Torture violates international law and treaty obligations, and treaty obligations are (supposedly) to be treated along with the Constitution as "the Supreme Law of the Land"

Here, let me bring that up:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
Even the air strikes in Syria isn't really illegal.
It was a violation of the war powers act.


You seem to be under the assumption that republicans in the senate would have voted to impeach him.
No. I'm of the opinion that they would have done the opposite of that. The Democrats also need to make a case to the public that the Republicans would be wrong to do that. They picked something which they could not make that case about.

No, the impeachment was a show, it had no ability to be anything more than that and at the end of it we saw his approval ratings go up.
Shows can be politically useful. Putting opponents on the record supporting a guilty president is useful if you're also making the case strongly and acting like you actually believe what you say. The Democrats, as I noted above, have generally done the opposite of that. Trump is a fascist and yet we need to expand his military budgets and so forth. It's absurd.

No, they couldn't practically have gone after him for most of those things.

Some would have been viewed as outrageous by the wider public at large and been public relations disasters.
Which ones and why?

Some would have been much wider attacks on the executive itself (air attacks without Congressional approval) that would not only have implicitly tarnished earlier presidents, but also tied their own hands with a Democratic president.
Good!

Fraud was a possible goer, except that Trump had already lost court cases and been made to pay a penalty, and standards of law would suggest the matter is therefore resolved and a second trial and punishment injustice.
In the case of suitability for high public office, this logic should fly out the window.

Other fraud cases were undergoing, but the evidence was not sufficiently avaialble. The domestic and foreign emoluments, however, may have been a reasonable shot.

Left-wing wank fantasies don't necessarily work well out there in the real world.
It's hardly even a left-wing wank fantasy so much as the #Resistance living up to some semblance of that word. The very least they could do is stop funding his military and Allgemeine SS-- sorry, I mean ICE.
 
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lil devils x

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Impeachment has not historically required a specific statutory crime. Did you read the link I posted about that very subject at all?



It's literally in the constitution.


and the domestic emoluments clause is Article 2 Section 1 Clause 7:



This is admittedly a less strong case than the foreign emoluments clause, but it's arguable.



He has literally been settling numerous cases accusing him of fraud.



Torture violates international law and treaty obligations, and treaty obligations are (supposedly) to be treated along with the Constitution as "the Supreme Law of the Land"

Here, let me bring that up:





It was a violation of the war powers act.




No. I'm of the opinion that they would have done the opposite of that. The Democrats also need to make a case to the public that the Republicans would be wrong to do that. They picked something which they could not make that case about.



Shows can be politically useful. Putting opponents on the record supporting a guilty president is useful if you're also making the case strongly and acting like you actually believe what you say. The Democrats, as I noted above, have generally done the opposite of that. Trump is a fascist and yet we need to expand his military budgets and so forth. It's absurd.



Which ones and why?



Good!



In the case of suitability for high public office, this logic should fly out the window.



It's hardly even a left-wing wank fantasy so much as the #Resistance living up to some semblance of that word. The very least they could do is stop funding his military and Allgemeine SS-- sorry, I mean ICE.
Trump's Emoluments Clause violations involve BOTH foreign and domestic issues. We also have numerous abuse of power, ordering numerous officials to break the law.. the list just goes on and on here:
 
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Agema

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It's hardly even a left-wing wank fantasy so much as the #Resistance living up to some semblance of that word. The very least they could do is stop funding his military and Allgemeine SS-- sorry, I mean ICE.
Beware what you wish for, because if you one day get power, you might find all those well-intentioned plans get killed stone dead because you destroyed all the means you had to cause change yourself.