Doom 4 in trouble, ID could be closed

[Pr0]

Actually to say Id has not been relevant is only a half truth at best. A good portion of the mainstream industry did not pass them by, a good portion of the mainstream industry bought IdTech 3/4/5 and simply made better games than Id has.

Id is an engine developer mostly at this point, expecting good games out of them is something of the long past and to be honest they were only "good" games back then because they were the first games of their type.

Zenimax wants an engine developer to use its legacy IP's to increase stock point value, Id would have been better served not being absorbed by anyone and simply continuing to sell their engine to better game developers.

Point in case, Quake 2 was pretty good, Half Life redefined the entire genre, and Half Life was using a heavily refitted version Id Tech 1 from the original Quake, in its original form. A better developer used a lesser version of Id's own engine to eclipse Id's own IP's.

Its not as if Id hasn't been profitable on licensing rights alone over the last twenty years, though with the proliferation of Unreal, CryEngine and Source and of course the inestimable Unity, they're probably not as relevant as they used to be.

 

[KoudelkaMorgan]

I've always considered Id and Silicon Knights to be brother companies. They are/were headed by aggressively dickish people and its been over 10 years since either have made that one game that made their name mean something to anyone.

The only Id game I truly loved was Doom 64. Final Doom was okay, and the original Doom as well. Heretic and Hexen weren't that great. I hated Doom 3. That encompasses my Id experience.

At this point I'd like to see Doom 4, made by just about any other company. Id AND Zenimax? I'd rather see EA do a remake of Daikatana, because it might suck but at least it wouldn't be patched for a year before its playable.

 

[Chemical Alia]

None of this surprises me. I spent only a short amount of time working there, but there was a lot that frustrated me about the way the projects were managed, issues with big egos among some people who had been there for ages, and the overall culture clash between the id people themselves and Zenimax who are now in charge. It made me sad, because id was the first developer I ever knew and cared about when I was growing up.

I hope they get the game and their studio back in shape, it's one of the only big studios the Dallas area still has. Even if most of my friends are laid off or gone now.

That's a shame, id is my favorite developer. Appears that Zenimax was also why we barely got any DLC for RAGE, too. I have no idea what is going on, but this whole thing is making Zenimax look like a bunch of douches.

This is the Zenimax that sent me a letter threatening unspecified legal action against me shortly after I moved on to another job, because they found out I had made money off winning 3d art contest that led to some stuff I made being sold in the TF2 hat store. Maybe they didn't realize I was just an intern trying to work on my portfolio, but there was nothing in my contract that prevented me from taking part in what I did, and it really upset me. I still don't know how or why it happened, but to me it felt like some major greed-fueled bullying.

 

[sXeth]

"The reboot's story was "unfit for a late night sci-fi channel", said one source, "

Uhm, and the original was what? Pulitzer prize literature?

 

[Something Amyss]

And yet each of those games failed to live up to the sales expectations Square-Enix had for them.

Sales expectations that were likely bolstered by wishful thinking.

This is not what will hurt Square Enix. What will hurt them is what led to it in the first place, a restructuring issue known for two bloody years. Honestly, this is why you and others have been portrayed as wanting a crash. It looks like you're willfuly ignoring evidence to fit a doom and gloom scenario. It also looks like when it hits, you're gleeful about pronouncing it. They knew they done screwed up, and they predicted pretty much exactly what's happened (except game sales) and are trying to fix it. Is it enough? Maybe. Is it completely honest? Probably not. Does that mean that their projections spell doom?

Well, no.

 

[ResonanceSD]

iD software are good at one thing. Making engines. And that's all.

Their storytelling/game mechanics using their own fucking engine leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[xefaros]

How come so much credit has been given to only 1 source?Kotaku really?They take a topic and spin it around like that shock site.For heavens sake they post potato competitions.

Either way Zenimax aren't stupid they wont become the new EA,ID already had independence and unless they are sitting around on their hands yeah they should build something.Since John D. Carmack II's VR project got overshadowed by oculus rift he sure will pay more attention to the company and all know that he is the choice maker.

Either way ID has to make 1 game to make a whole bucket of money.Quake arena 2 and push the e-sport angle correctly which it will happen eventually

 

[PunkRex]

Games are just getting way to expensive to make these days.

I wouldn't say that, how much did Minecraft or Bastion cost?

When you get a bunch of people together to make a piece of media/art and they all want to do their own thing, including many individuals who will end up having no interaction with the finished product, shits proberly going to go tits up.

 

[Tom Waits' hat]

Games are just getting way to expensive to make these days.

I wouldn't say that, how much did Minecraft or Bastion cost?

When you get a bunch of people together to make a piece of media/art and they all want to do their own thing, including many individuals who will end up having no interaction with the finished product, shits proberly going to go tits up.

Ah yes, my bad. I didn't made it clear.
I'm talking about those big budget triple A titles.

It's like hearing stuff like Dead Space 3 needs to sell 5 million copies to be successful and how 3.4 million in a month for Tomb Raider still below their expectation.

 

[Vivi22]

Actually to say Id has not been relevant is only a half truth at best. A good portion of the mainstream industry did not pass them by, a good portion of the mainstream industry bought IdTech 3/4/5 and simply made better games than Id has.

Id is an engine developer mostly at this point, expecting good games out of them is something of the long past and to be honest they were only "good" games back then because they were the first games of their type.

Zenimax wants an engine developer to use its legacy IP's to increase stock point value, Id would have been better served not being absorbed by anyone and simply continuing to sell their engine to better game developers.

Point in case, Quake 2 was pretty good, Half Life redefined the entire genre, and Half Life was using a heavily refitted version Id Tech 1 from the original Quake, in its original form. A better developer used a lesser version of Id's own engine to eclipse Id's own IP's.

Its not as if Id hasn't been profitable on licensing rights alone over the last twenty years, though with the proliferation of Unreal, CryEngine and Source and of course the inestimable Unity, they're probably not as relevant as they used to be.

Actually, your last paragraph kind of hit the nail on the head of how id simply isn't as relevant as an engine developer as they used to be. Not to take anything away from them because their tech is generally great and god knows Carmack is a certifiable genius, but they haven't done much on the licensing end since id Tech 3: The Quake 3 engine. Epic has such a strangle hold on AAA engine licensing now that by comparison everyone else is small potatoes, even id. And there's no reason to expect that to change next gen. Meanwhile Unity has pretty much become the undisputed king of the indie/lower cost development end. Everyone else is pretty much fighting over scraps right now, and id hasn't even shown anything to indicate that they're going to be ready to compete with the Unreal engine 4 anytime soon.

 

[Rad Party God]

The only Id game I truly loved was Doom 64.

Ironic, because id didn't make Doom 64, it was Midway Games. And to be honest, Doom 64 was pretty good, I liked it's "horror" atmosphere, much better than Doom 3 IMO.

OT: Well... are people seriously hoping that id would make something worthwhile after Doom 3?, let alone after Rage?. I'm a huge fan of the first couple of Doom games, but... as many have already stated, the only thing they're good at is in making newer engines, wich they dropped the ball pretty hard after being bought by Zenimax.

 

[AD-Stu]

When you make DOOM and Quake, I'm kinda of the opinion that you can not make anything relevant the rest of your career, money still shouldn't be an issue. When was the last time the Rolling Stones had a relevant album? Yet there they are, millionaires every last one of them, and still selling out stadiums around the world.

The reason the Stones keep making boatloads of money is because people keep buying their old songs and albums and paying insane prices to see them play live. Plus they get royalties any time someone uses their music in a movie or plays it on the radio or whatever. Also sure, Mick and Keef are almost certainly still loaded, but on the flipside Ronnie Wood has gone from being a millionaire to broke more than once, despite being a member of the Stones for over 30 years. Having loads of money doesn't stop you doing stupid things with it.

And that's the difference between id and the Stones. id may still garner a ton of respect from basically inventing the FPS genre and coming out with titles like Wolfenstein, Doom and Quake, but those games aren't actually making them any money these days. And they don't play stadiums. And respect alone doesn't pay the bills.

They're not like Blizzard, which has the luxury of taking its sweet time developing games because ever since 2004 it's had WOW subscriptions paying the bills. They're not like Valve either, which has the profits from Steam keeping it afloat and in no hurry to release HL3. At best, id have had engine licensing and as others have discussed, they're not exactly the flavour of the month any more.

Quite simply, I don't see how they could possibly afford to take 10 years to develop a game. It'd be like the Stones giving up all their back catalog income, and trying to live off just the one stadium show every decade or something.

 

[Xdeser2]

While I sympathize with the (obviously) talented people that may be losing their jobs.....I can't say I feel terribly about this. I hold the unpopular opinion that the OG DOOM was just....not very good. None of their projects have really interested me :/

Eh, it's just the Ebb and flow of the Market at work. Once upon a time ID was at the top of their game but...times change. They make great engines and all, but their gameplay/story telling hasn't exactly kept up with the times.

That being said, I hope they stay open, if only for the people that work there and those that like ID's games.

 

[AyaReiko]

This is what happens when the only game you released in about a decade came out to a resounding thud. Zenimax probably saw the writing on the wall and knew making DLC for Rage would've been a money-losing project.

That, and everybody uses the Unreal engine now. id Tech 5 was never released for licensing. Barely anyone used id Tech 4. And EA and Raven were almost the only ones who used id Tech 3.

 

[Tanakh]

-snip-

I don't think I have told you lately how much I love you. Writing what I would have but with better humor and syntax, I save time and read my thoughts in a more congruent presentation! Win-win.

 

[Stryc9]

I'm conflicted. "Call of Doom" sounds awful and I'm glad that's been knocked on the head. On the other hand I really want to see a good next-gen Doom, though I'm not sure if the things I love about the originals - giant levels, tons of enemies, freedom to explore - could be replicated with modern visuals without it making my pc explode.

Which is where id comes in. id was never about making games with a great story all that, id was always about building great engines and making a mediocre game to show it off with. If anyone can make a modern FPS engine that will do the kinds of things the original Doom games could it's id.

There's really no FPS I can think of that delivers a real Doom-like experience. Serious Sam gets mentioned a lot but that's really all about circle strafing waves of enemies in an arena-like environment, as was Painkiller. Not really the same thing.

I see nothing in the quoted bits that implicitly says id could be shut down. Anywhere. All I saw was that they canceled Rage 2 and scaled back the DLC for the first game because let's face it, it was crap and probably didn't sell enough to really warrant a sequel.

They also scrapped the original plans for Doom 4, but that doesn't mean they're pulling a Duke Nukem Forever and porting the game over to a whole new engine, which happened to DNF multiple times. Rather they're just taking the story back to the drawing board and starting over from there, which considering how bland Doom 3's story was might not be a bad thing.

I didn't really see anything in there to really get all that worked up about, I know that LucasArts got closed down today and there's been shakeups at EA and SquareEnix but it's really not the end of the world. I doubt id is going anywhere anytime soon unless Doom 4 ends up being total shit.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

even on a 56k modem.

God I am so glad I didn't get into multiplayer/PC gaming until long after broadband was introduced.

OT:
It'd be a shame to see id go, but they're not really relevant any more. Doom 4 is pretty much their last chance. They better hit this one for six.

 

[Kenneth Spaziani]

iD just needs to do what they do best; id Tech 5.5 as its being called will need to be mind blowing for the release of Doom 4 and iD said tha Quake 5 was to follow with the original Quake 1 "Cthulu" Theme back.
- I say Make Doom 4 a gorgeous gorgeous innovative game in terms of graphic engine (an engine that will sell) and add on a more of Quake 3 (or quake live) type of Multi-Player; expanisve and big in the E-sports market rather than how Doom 3's Multiplayer is / was. Single Player has many many options being "Hell on earth"; Carmack has never failed me yet and I hope these are mostly out of panic type of speculations.

I really dug RAGE. - Raven did a pretty darn good job with Quake 4; and an alright job with new Wolfenstein. Splash Damage did a WONDERFUL job with ET:QW in 07' but really blew it with Brink. (now they are on their own with Dirty Bomb; thus far an amazing game via alpha testing - but this is a Compet. MP only game).

Doom 4 needs to have various ways to approach situations; hell I'd be happy with Doom 2 with iD Tech 5.5 and some innovations in exactly "What" you can do. - Basically throw some story along with being able to approach situations as you want, have Carmack's brilliance make it all work together as an engine and gameplay mechanics.. - I still say The best focus for iD right now is Multiplayer; E-Sports is exploding and they created FPS MP, FPS CTF, FPS Dedicated Servers, They made my favorite Shooter of all time with Quake 3... (quake live I play competitively still); so Deliver a B+ or A- Single Player maybe even a solid "B-" SP story and campaign etc; but Deliver a A+++ 12/10 rated Multi-player. with a 10/10 iD Tech 5.5 Engine overhaul which I heard was being over-hauled and would blow us away.

I don't want to believe any of this; but if its true... As a fan since playing Doom 1 and Doom 2 as a kid *Played Doom 1 before Wolf 3D as a kid, then Quake 1 blew me away.. Quake 2 with VOODOO GPU.. then Quake 3 -droooools-* I will Lend my aid for free; I'm a sound engineer, Musician, and I'm an "idea man" style game designer for some indie titles - I would do anything to aid iD Software's Doom 4 project... so that it can be successful and that Quake 5 can come out; and perhaps a Rage 2 or a new IP. I believe iD needs to get a faster development cycle for games that are not the legendary games (Doom and Quake) Wolf can have another sequel for example MP orientied like W:ET was (even though that was not the initial Mp and it was Splash Damage...) along with 2 or 3 new IP ideas and atleast 1-2 becoming reality; and perhaps being released a year after Doom 4; just to show that iD is still competing - it can have similiar tech as Doom 4 but completely different innovations and gameplay style / themes - and then be a set-up for the Quake V launch a year later etc or if it needs 2 years after new IP release a new Wolfenstein game keep the money churning iD; You guys are LEGENDS. FN LEGENDS. I will not accept The greatest FPS studio in history go under.

 

[Zetatrain]

Games are just getting way to expensive to make these days.

I wouldn't say that, how much did Minecraft or Bastion cost?

When you get a bunch of people together to make a piece of media/art and they all want to do their own thing, including many individuals who will end up having no interaction with the finished product, shits proberly going to go tits up.

Ah yes, my bad. I didn't made it clear.
I'm talking about those big budget triple A titles.

It's like hearing stuff like Dead Space 3 needs to sell 5 million copies to be successful and how 3.4 million in a month for Tomb Raider still below their expectation.

Well may be if EA spent less on marketing and didn't set unreasonable goals like trying to turn every game into the next big hit they wouldn't be in the position they are now.

 

[Kenneth Spaziani]

When you make DOOM and Quake, I'm kinda of the opinion that you can not make anything relevant the rest of your career, money still shouldn't be an issue. When was the last time the Rolling Stones had a relevant album? Yet there they are, millionaires every last one of them, and still selling out stadiums around the world.

The reason the Stones keep making boatloads of money is because people keep buying their old songs and albums and paying insane prices to see them play live. Plus they get royalties any time someone uses their music in a movie or plays it on the radio or whatever. Also sure, Mick and Keef are almost certainly still loaded, but on the flipside Ronnie Wood has gone from being a millionaire to broke more than once, despite being a member of the Stones for over 30 years. Having loads of money doesn't stop you doing stupid things with it.

And that's the difference between id and the Stones. id may still garner a ton of respect from basically inventing the FPS genre and coming out with titles like Wolfenstein, Doom and Quake, but those games aren't actually making them any money these days. And they don't play stadiums. And respect alone doesn't pay the bills.

They're not like Blizzard, which has the luxury of taking its sweet time developing games because ever since 2004 it's had WOW subscriptions paying the bills. They're not like Valve either, which has the profits from Steam keeping it afloat and in no hurry to release HL3. At best, id have had engine licensing and as others have discussed, they're not exactly the flavour of the month any more.

Quite simply, I don't see how they could possibly afford to take 10 years to develop a game. It'd be like the Stones giving up all their back catalog income, and trying to live off just the one stadium show every decade or something.

iD Tech 5 was really really impressive in its developed state; it was not "ready" to be released to our hardware especially not the console hardware; I believe by the time Doom 4 comes out it will be at that "5.5" stage; and will really shine and blow people away. I wish I could find the link but someone who uses SLI 680 GTX's like myself, has an upload of RAGE Gameplay driving near the end of the game and combat, shadows and lighting etc; textures looking amazing on the "Original" quality above 1080P option as he unlocked the games Texture scale to be ?64x64? which is huge as the game launched 4x4 if I remember correctly on PC; and trying to get it 6x6 or 8x8 would result is overheats and crashes etc. But that video is mindblowing in its own right.

The art tool-set iD Tech 5's engine at a core allows is pure artistic vision brought to life at a more ease driven pace; it really allows the artists to create a game world which every detail of the world is different and unique; without having to hassle over it - that alone is brilliant.