Doom 4 in trouble, ID could be closed

[Clive Howlitzer]

I'd rather see no Doom 4 than the 'Call of Doom' described above. Is it so much to ask to have huge sprawling levels that you explore at your own rate? Instead of just everything being linear? As well as the monsters already existing on the level for the most part. That is really all I ask from a Doom game. It is something I haven't seen in a shooter in some time.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

When you've got stuff like this happening with greater and greater regularity in the industry, how can you think it's in anything other than terminal decline? I'm honestly interested to know where your blind optimism for the industry comes from, considering that every bit of info I've read has shown the industry's finances to be heading down the crapper.

Blind optimism? Because I mildly chide you for your rampant doomsaying, I'm a blind optimist now? Leave us not descend into this mudslinging. It is beneath you.

When you make DOOM and Quake, I'm kinda of the opinion that you can not make anything relevant the rest of your career, money still shouldn't be an issue. When was the last time the Rolling Stones had a relevant album? Yet there they are, millionaires every last one of them, and still selling out stadiums around the world.

If making a hit game, or a historically relevant game, gave you infinite time and money and infinite forgiveness for dubious followups, a lot of fine studios would still be with us. Doom 3 was a mediocre game. RAGE was a mediocre game. We are many, many years removed from the impact of Doom and Quake, and they are no longer leading the charge when it comes to engine design.

We can be sad about it and remember them for the good things they did long ago, but I say again...ID has not been relevant for a very long time. The industry has passed them by.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

It's id not ID.

Non-capitalized because id lower case i looks better than I which can be confused l. And the second letter isn't capitalized because no one capitalizes the letters in the middle of the word, that makes no sense. id is from the latin word for 'thing,' as in the id, ego and the superego. It is not a reference to identification cards.

See? This is how irrelevant they've become. I can't even remember how to spell their name.

 

[fix-the-spade]

No-one expects Blizzard to fail in the lifetime between their game releases, because they know Blizard have such phenomenal success in the past to be able to fund extended development. Reception to Rage be damned, id are one of the most important companies in the industry, and based on past successes alone they should be able to take as long as they want to make their games.

Blizzard a really bad comparison, Blizzard has two infinite money machines in Warcraft and Starcraft, games that continued to generate income for over a decade, not even counting that MMO. Only Valve truly compare to Blizzard in that their ability to generate revenue isn't directly and completely tied to their next release being a success.

There's a saying in sport that you're only as good as your last resul, Id should be very aware of that statement right now.

Regardless of Quake, Enemy Territory, Doom or Wolfenstein their last two releases were Doom3BFG and Rage, neither being what you'd call mega hits. What they're doing no doesn't even stack up to the competition, never mind their own past. Since it's Zenimax's money they're spending to make rubbish games, Zenimax is entirely within it's rights to cut them loose if it appears they're spending the money on doomed (haha) projects.

 

[Pr0]

Actually to say Id has not been relevant is only a half truth at best. A good portion of the mainstream industry did not pass them by, a good portion of the mainstream industry bought IdTech 3/4/5 and simply made better games than Id has.

Id is an engine developer mostly at this point, expecting good games out of them is something of the long past and to be honest they were only "good" games back then because they were the first games of their type.

Zenimax wants an engine developer to use its legacy IP's to increase stock point value, Id would have been better served not being absorbed by anyone and simply continuing to sell their engine to better game developers.

Point in case, Quake 2 was pretty good, Half Life redefined the entire genre, and Half Life was using a heavily refitted version Id Tech 1 from the original Quake, in its original form. A better developer used a lesser version of Id's own engine to eclipse Id's own IP's.

Its not as if Id hasn't been profitable on licensing rights alone over the last twenty years, though with the proliferation of Unreal, CryEngine and Source and of course the inestimable Unity, they're probably not as relevant as they used to be.

 

[KoudelkaMorgan]

I've always considered Id and Silicon Knights to be brother companies. They are/were headed by aggressively dickish people and its been over 10 years since either have made that one game that made their name mean something to anyone.

The only Id game I truly loved was Doom 64. Final Doom was okay, and the original Doom as well. Heretic and Hexen weren't that great. I hated Doom 3. That encompasses my Id experience.

At this point I'd like to see Doom 4, made by just about any other company. Id AND Zenimax? I'd rather see EA do a remake of Daikatana, because it might suck but at least it wouldn't be patched for a year before its playable.

 

[Chemical Alia]

None of this surprises me. I spent only a short amount of time working there, but there was a lot that frustrated me about the way the projects were managed, issues with big egos among some people who had been there for ages, and the overall culture clash between the id people themselves and Zenimax who are now in charge. It made me sad, because id was the first developer I ever knew and cared about when I was growing up.

I hope they get the game and their studio back in shape, it's one of the only big studios the Dallas area still has. Even if most of my friends are laid off or gone now.

That's a shame, id is my favorite developer. Appears that Zenimax was also why we barely got any DLC for RAGE, too. I have no idea what is going on, but this whole thing is making Zenimax look like a bunch of douches.

This is the Zenimax that sent me a letter threatening unspecified legal action against me shortly after I moved on to another job, because they found out I had made money off winning 3d art contest that led to some stuff I made being sold in the TF2 hat store. Maybe they didn't realize I was just an intern trying to work on my portfolio, but there was nothing in my contract that prevented me from taking part in what I did, and it really upset me. I still don't know how or why it happened, but to me it felt like some major greed-fueled bullying.

 

[sXeth]

"The reboot's story was "unfit for a late night sci-fi channel", said one source, "

Uhm, and the original was what? Pulitzer prize literature?

 

[Something Amyss]

And yet each of those games failed to live up to the sales expectations Square-Enix had for them.

Sales expectations that were likely bolstered by wishful thinking.

This is not what will hurt Square Enix. What will hurt them is what led to it in the first place, a restructuring issue known for two bloody years. Honestly, this is why you and others have been portrayed as wanting a crash. It looks like you're willfuly ignoring evidence to fit a doom and gloom scenario. It also looks like when it hits, you're gleeful about pronouncing it. They knew they done screwed up, and they predicted pretty much exactly what's happened (except game sales) and are trying to fix it. Is it enough? Maybe. Is it completely honest? Probably not. Does that mean that their projections spell doom?

Well, no.

 

[ResonanceSD]

iD software are good at one thing. Making engines. And that's all.

Their storytelling/game mechanics using their own fucking engine leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[xefaros]

How come so much credit has been given to only 1 source?Kotaku really?They take a topic and spin it around like that shock site.For heavens sake they post potato competitions.

Either way Zenimax aren't stupid they wont become the new EA,ID already had independence and unless they are sitting around on their hands yeah they should build something.Since John D. Carmack II's VR project got overshadowed by oculus rift he sure will pay more attention to the company and all know that he is the choice maker.

Either way ID has to make 1 game to make a whole bucket of money.Quake arena 2 and push the e-sport angle correctly which it will happen eventually

 

[PunkRex]

Games are just getting way to expensive to make these days.

I wouldn't say that, how much did Minecraft or Bastion cost?

When you get a bunch of people together to make a piece of media/art and they all want to do their own thing, including many individuals who will end up having no interaction with the finished product, shits proberly going to go tits up.

 

[Tom Waits' hat]

Games are just getting way to expensive to make these days.

I wouldn't say that, how much did Minecraft or Bastion cost?

When you get a bunch of people together to make a piece of media/art and they all want to do their own thing, including many individuals who will end up having no interaction with the finished product, shits proberly going to go tits up.

Ah yes, my bad. I didn't made it clear.
I'm talking about those big budget triple A titles.

It's like hearing stuff like Dead Space 3 needs to sell 5 million copies to be successful and how 3.4 million in a month for Tomb Raider still below their expectation.

 

[Vivi22]

Actually to say Id has not been relevant is only a half truth at best. A good portion of the mainstream industry did not pass them by, a good portion of the mainstream industry bought IdTech 3/4/5 and simply made better games than Id has.

Id is an engine developer mostly at this point, expecting good games out of them is something of the long past and to be honest they were only "good" games back then because they were the first games of their type.

Zenimax wants an engine developer to use its legacy IP's to increase stock point value, Id would have been better served not being absorbed by anyone and simply continuing to sell their engine to better game developers.

Point in case, Quake 2 was pretty good, Half Life redefined the entire genre, and Half Life was using a heavily refitted version Id Tech 1 from the original Quake, in its original form. A better developer used a lesser version of Id's own engine to eclipse Id's own IP's.

Its not as if Id hasn't been profitable on licensing rights alone over the last twenty years, though with the proliferation of Unreal, CryEngine and Source and of course the inestimable Unity, they're probably not as relevant as they used to be.

Actually, your last paragraph kind of hit the nail on the head of how id simply isn't as relevant as an engine developer as they used to be. Not to take anything away from them because their tech is generally great and god knows Carmack is a certifiable genius, but they haven't done much on the licensing end since id Tech 3: The Quake 3 engine. Epic has such a strangle hold on AAA engine licensing now that by comparison everyone else is small potatoes, even id. And there's no reason to expect that to change next gen. Meanwhile Unity has pretty much become the undisputed king of the indie/lower cost development end. Everyone else is pretty much fighting over scraps right now, and id hasn't even shown anything to indicate that they're going to be ready to compete with the Unreal engine 4 anytime soon.

 

[Rad Party God]

The only Id game I truly loved was Doom 64.

Ironic, because id didn't make Doom 64, it was Midway Games. And to be honest, Doom 64 was pretty good, I liked it's "horror" atmosphere, much better than Doom 3 IMO.

OT: Well... are people seriously hoping that id would make something worthwhile after Doom 3?, let alone after Rage?. I'm a huge fan of the first couple of Doom games, but... as many have already stated, the only thing they're good at is in making newer engines, wich they dropped the ball pretty hard after being bought by Zenimax.

 

[AD-Stu]

When you make DOOM and Quake, I'm kinda of the opinion that you can not make anything relevant the rest of your career, money still shouldn't be an issue. When was the last time the Rolling Stones had a relevant album? Yet there they are, millionaires every last one of them, and still selling out stadiums around the world.

The reason the Stones keep making boatloads of money is because people keep buying their old songs and albums and paying insane prices to see them play live. Plus they get royalties any time someone uses their music in a movie or plays it on the radio or whatever. Also sure, Mick and Keef are almost certainly still loaded, but on the flipside Ronnie Wood has gone from being a millionaire to broke more than once, despite being a member of the Stones for over 30 years. Having loads of money doesn't stop you doing stupid things with it.

And that's the difference between id and the Stones. id may still garner a ton of respect from basically inventing the FPS genre and coming out with titles like Wolfenstein, Doom and Quake, but those games aren't actually making them any money these days. And they don't play stadiums. And respect alone doesn't pay the bills.

They're not like Blizzard, which has the luxury of taking its sweet time developing games because ever since 2004 it's had WOW subscriptions paying the bills. They're not like Valve either, which has the profits from Steam keeping it afloat and in no hurry to release HL3. At best, id have had engine licensing and as others have discussed, they're not exactly the flavour of the month any more.

Quite simply, I don't see how they could possibly afford to take 10 years to develop a game. It'd be like the Stones giving up all their back catalog income, and trying to live off just the one stadium show every decade or something.

 

[Xdeser2]

While I sympathize with the (obviously) talented people that may be losing their jobs.....I can't say I feel terribly about this. I hold the unpopular opinion that the OG DOOM was just....not very good. None of their projects have really interested me :/

Eh, it's just the Ebb and flow of the Market at work. Once upon a time ID was at the top of their game but...times change. They make great engines and all, but their gameplay/story telling hasn't exactly kept up with the times.

That being said, I hope they stay open, if only for the people that work there and those that like ID's games.

 

[AyaReiko]

This is what happens when the only game you released in about a decade came out to a resounding thud. Zenimax probably saw the writing on the wall and knew making DLC for Rage would've been a money-losing project.

That, and everybody uses the Unreal engine now. id Tech 5 was never released for licensing. Barely anyone used id Tech 4. And EA and Raven were almost the only ones who used id Tech 3.