Doom Eternal thoughts thread.

[Hawki]

Hayden popped Doomguy away at the end of 2016, but he wasn't trying to kill him or stick him somewhere he'd lose track of. Hayden's also into Sentinel stuff, so a logical dumping place would be the inert Sentinel station.


However, since Doomguy has VEGA in his pocket (since he autonomously grabbed the backup, never mentioning it to Hayden), he uses VEGA to take over the station and get out.

Assuming that Hayden teleported the Slayer and VEGA to the fortress at the end of the last game could work, but one problem - it's still an assumption. I shouldn't have to assume such things for core plot points. I mean, what, they can (try to) explain everything through the codex, but can't explain how the protagonist got from point a to point b between games?

- None of the OG Doom dev team might still be at id Software, but it's nice to know the new blood is still upholding their time-honored tradition of straight up stealing designs from tabletop games. The first boss you fight is pretty much a knockoff of a Necron Destroyer from 40K.

I can see the resemblance, but I think it's more a reference to Kelly's demon form in Doom 3.

How can someone play this kind of game with a controller?

Relatively easily actually.

 

[Marik2]

I want a mod that puts golbin slayer or alex jones in the game.

 

[sXeth]

Halfway-ish through now.

I'd deduct at least a solid 2/10 points for all the obnoxious platforming. The monkey bars in particular stand out, which might be an easy patch if they let you melee onto them the same way the climbable walls do, rather then relying on their questionable hitbox. And the ones where you have to turn on them frequently seem to refuse and send you at the original angle.

 

[gsilver]

My biggest gripe is, why the hell do you only get 16 shots with the shotgun? You'll go through your entire capacity with even mid-tier enemies. Best hope you left some grunts alive to use the ammo reload key!
And it feels really lame that I have yet to be able to kill anything over a grunt with the chainsaw. You run out of ammo *constantly* and the chainsaw is the only reliable way to get it back. The chainsaw ammo recharges the last point, so you're more likely to run out of grunts than ammo with the chainsaw completely depleted, but ammo beyond that is extremely rare, making it next to impossible to ever save up the three points that you need to kill any of the stronger enemies.
This is in stark contrast to Doom 2016, where I had enough ammo that I almost always saved the chainsaw for tougher enemies.

//Or the classic doom games, where the chainsaw was a regular part of your arsenal, and not a "refill ammo" button

Halfway-ish through now.

I'd deduct at least a solid 2/10 points for all the obnoxious platforming. The monkey bars in particular stand out, which might be an easy patch if they let you melee onto them the same way the climbable walls do, rather then relying on their questionable hitbox. And the ones where you have to turn on them frequently seem to refuse and send you at the original angle.

It also really throws me that dashing into a bar ruins your angle, causing me to miss jumps over and over until I managed to jump up to it without a dash.

 

[Dalisclock]

I suspect all the wierd plot stuff is because that's what DOOM 2 did back in the day.

Doom 2 didn't do anything near as crazy as Doom Eternal. And while the game is taking inspiration from it, stuff like Argent D'Nur, and all the associated stuff, most certainly doesn't stem from Doom 2.

The extra content(basically a DLC nowadays but at the time it was called an Expansion Pack) had no justification.

https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Thy_Flesh_Consumed#Plot

It's an interquel between Doom 1 and 2. It fits in rather nicely actually.

I mean, sure, it supports the "Hell Demons invade mars then earth because science experiments" plot. I haven't played DOOM 2016 or DOOM Eternal but I was under the impression the plot was much along the same lines(other then the "We're mining for Hell energy which is totally not a terrible idea that's going to end badly for all of us" plot point). So I'm not sure where the inherent disconnect is here.

 

[sXeth]

I mean, sure, it supports the "Hell Demons invade mars then earth because science experiments" plot. I haven't played DOOM 2016 or DOOM Eternal but I was under the impression the plot was much along the same lines(other then the "We're mining for Hell energy which is totally not a terrible idea that's going to end badly for all of us" plot point). So I'm not sure where the inherent disconnect is here.

Eternal dives way more into the space fantasy plotline that was presented in the final act of Doom 2016.

Spoiler

(this may incomplete, haven't finished game yet)

The Argenta were an alien race way back when that allied wiht the Maykir (essentially space angel cyborgs). This was fruitful and Argenta became a warrior race (kind of like space Vikings or CrusaderS) who went around liberating other planets. At some point they get into conflict with the "first ones" (Hell), and start fighting them. One of the Maykir went rogue and joined Hell, and provided false info to the Argenta Sentinels that they could defeat Hell by destroying the Foundry of Souls. Several Sentinel Priests organzied this mission also appafrently having turned traitor).


So the Sentinels send all their best into the Foundry of Souls, but its a trap, and their Commander deactivates their escape route after being promised his sons ressurection by the demons. Most of the Sentinels are killed, and become the Wraiths that were powering the Foundry in Doom 2016 that you had stab, the Commander becomes the Betrayer living in Exile in the Hell world, and Argenta itself gets merged into Hell, along with various other worlds.


The Doom Slayer, while apparently human, is also one of these Sentinels, somehow. (that hasn't been explained yet that I found). Anyhow, he wandered Hell doing his thing. A Seraphim (probably another Maykir) gave him super strength/speed etc, and a rogue demon smith rebuilt his armour so he coudl draw hell energy from his fallen foes to become more powerful.



In Doom 2016, humans led by Samuel Hayden, a scientist who has several Sentinel artifacts, and got or rebuilt a Maykir body, is leading attempts to solve an energy crisis by siphonung Hell's argent energy. Predictably, this goes poorly, and the First corrupt most of his organization. Who set off a series of events that opens the Argent portal on Mars. Hayden being all up on Sentinels had retrieved Doomguy as a backup plan though, and releases him. He thwarts all that, picks up Hayden's AI (which may also be of MAykir origin), and destroys the Foundry of Souls by final-deathing the physical forms of the Night Sentinels and freeing their souls with an Hell artifact called the Crucible.


Hayden pulls Doomguy back, incapacitates him with a device he'd implanted earlier, and takes the Crucible (Eventually back to Earth to try and use it to replicate non-HEll based Argent energy). He then teleports the Doomguy to parts unknown to end 2016 (most likely the Sentinel Fortress that Eternal has the Doomguy on at the beginning, though that is not clarified).


Then its not clear that I've run across yet whether Hayden opened a gate by muchking around with the Crucible, or the rest of the UAC (who were being led by the Deagic Priests in secret now) managed to open it, but hell forces started invading earth. Which comes to the start of the game.

 

[Hawki]

I haven't played DOOM 2016 or DOOM Eternal but I was under the impression the plot was much along the same lines(other then the "We're mining for Hell energy which is totally not a terrible idea that's going to end badly for all of us" plot point). So I'm not sure where the inherent disconnect is here.

Yes for the first, no for the second.

You can basically think of Doom 2016 as being a remake of the original (plotwise) in the same vein that Doom 3 was a remake. Same basic premise, only with added window dressing. All three games have the premise of "portal to Hell is opened, bad stuff happens," only with Doom 2016, the reason the UAC is on Mars is Argent energy. There's hints at the wider lore that Eternal would explore, but it's pretty academic. Any real hints of that lore is right at the end bar some statues in Hayden's office. Oh sure, it's got codex entries before that, but as I've stated numerous times, it all felt like it was made up on the fly.

Doom Eternal, on the other hand, does take inspiration from Doom 2, but it really does its own thing. Plot of Doom 2 goes spaceport-city-Hell. Doom Eternal has you constantly leapfrogging between dimensions, and it engages with the wider lore Doom 2016 hinted at directly. That said, it doesn't do it that well, because so often stuff you see onscreen is only contextualized if you're reading the codex, and some things are simply never explained at all. I'll avoid direct examples because of spoilers, but to give you a sense of what this is like...

Take the Lord of the Rings movie trilogy. Fellowship ends as it does. Cut to Two Towers, and as soon as we see Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli, Gandalf the White is with them. How and why Gandalf is with them is never explained, and the characters never draw reference to it. The only explanation we do get is much later into the film with an offhand comment of "yeah, we met Gandalf in Fangorn, the Valar sent him back as Gandalf the White after he killed the Balrog and died himself," and then the conversation moves on. That's not a 1:1 system, since films don't use codex systems or appendecies, but it's the same feeling of disconnect you'd get from playing Doom Eternal. Something will play on-screen, the Doom Slayer clearly understands what the context is, but the player doesn't until later, and will only understand if they read the codex entries.

I'll say that the plot of Doom Eternal is technically better than Doom 2016, but it's kind of a pick your poison scenario. Doom 3 seemed to get the balance right between what its data pad entries said and what was going on-screen, but its successor games haven't managed that balance.

 

[Dalisclock]

Appreciate the Clarification. I honestly got the impression DOOM Eternal was basically gonna have an excuse plot typical of games such as this, not a bunch of space fantasy lore. So yeah, I was wrong.

 

[sXeth]

*snip*

Yeah, I'd say there's a definite pickup around when you go to the Resistance HQ. The levels start to have some flow, and the arenas aren't as obviously displaced arenas. The soundtrack even picks up, and more of the narrative is presented on screen. Even when you land in the level back in not-Anor Lond thats just a giant lore dump before a boss fight, you're getting a mix of codex and actual ingame/cutscene flashbacks.


Whereaas the first part just has you slogging through demons in a variety of not particularly notable backdrops, with brief interludes of unexplained fantasy backstory. And full on omissions.

 

[Hawki]

So I've been playing more of Doom Eternal and I've been dying. A lot. Like, really a lot. On normal.

To specify, in singleplayer, I'm up to Urdak. What I want to know is that, if the codex says that demons can't enter Urdak, why there's all these freaking demons around. I dunno, maybe the Icon of Sin broke the barriers or something? Also, I have a feeling that Id might have run out of time, because I was hoping to fight angel enemies in the game, but all I get are these drones. Also, demons. Killing me. A lot. And FFS Hayden, I know that the Icon of Sin gets stronger the longer it remains on Earth. You made it clear after telling me at least three times.

To top it off, I've tried the battlemode as well, where I'm also dying. A lot. Like, I've always been assigned the Doom Slayer role, and I'm left to ask if the mode is unbalanced or if I just suck, because I've lost every time. And speaking of multiplayer, where's Deathmatch? Yeah, the Doom 2016 deathmatch mode had problems, namely loadouts and a lack of players, but it was fairly fun when I got a match. Here, we get a different mode that's fun in its own way, but I'm left to ask, why not both?

Yeah, I'd say there's a definite pickup around when you go to the Resistance HQ. The levels start to have some flow, and the arenas aren't as obviously displaced arenas. The soundtrack even picks up, and more of the narrative is presented on screen. Even when you land in the level back in not-Anor Lond thats just a giant lore dump before a boss fight, you're getting a mix of codex and actual ingame/cutscene flashbacks.


Whereaas the first part just has you slogging through demons in a variety of not particularly notable backdrops, with brief interludes of unexplained fantasy backstory. And full on omissions.

I noticed that too. Though it's funny how the Slayer goes to the HQ just as Hell attacks, and goes to Phobos just as Hell attacks as well. Guy must have extremely lucky timing (or unlucky, depending on how you see things).

 

[sXeth]

I noticed that too. Though it's funny how the Slayer goes to the HQ just as Hell attacks, and goes to Phobos just as Hell attacks as well. Guy must have extremely lucky timing (or unlucky, depending on how you see things).

Well, if we give the Hell guys some credit. Slayer took out two Hell priests, and they know he was gunning for the third. And potentially that Hayden would be the one who could get him there. So hitting the Resistance makes sense (why they didn't do it before is kind of odd, but maybe they were content to just rampage willy nilly while they hid wherever that was).


Phobos is an odd one. Again it makes sense that Hell would know the Slayer was coming to Mars at the time. But how was there an apparently untouched human military installation there set up with the BFG-10000. Also why were they all UAC guys, when UAC was taken over by the cults (Hayden left to form the resistance)

Spoiler

I don't know if you also caught it, but Hayden and the hooded Maykyr who puts the Slayer in the Divinity MAchine have the same voice

 

[Hawki]

I don't know if you also caught it, but Hayden and the hooded Maykyr who puts the Slayer in the Divinity MAchine have the same voice

I didn't, though I'm not sure how he could be the Seraph. Hayden is definitely human (I think we see his portrait in the previous game) before getting upgraded and all that, and if he is the Seraph, I'm left to ask what his motivation is. Surely he'd know that argent energy isn't the most...moral of energy sources, given what he tells us in Eternal.

 

[Hawki]

I did it.

It took me about 2.5 hours, but I did it.

I beat the Khan Makyr. On normal. Without Sentinel armour.

She kept yelling "suffer!" I did. A lot. My wrists are sore.

But I did it.

Two and a half hours, and I did it.

...God, I need sleep.

(Yes, I know that isn't much to brag about, and that I've still got the Icon of Sin, and I've got the feeling that I've just witnessed "nice job breaking it hero" in action, but shadup, let me have this...)

 

[Hawki]

So I played more of battlemode.

I'm still being assigned to the Slayer, but had some more luck. Demons won two rounds, I won two rounds, then they won the last round. TBH, I'm not sure about the mechanic of you having to kill both demons at around the same time, lest one of them respawn. Like, I get why, in a sense (player boredom), but it felt really cheap when I kept killing one of them, and it respawned before I could kill the other.

Edit: I'll add that I'm in agreement that the game could benefit from a PvE mode. Like, players take the role of Sentinels and fight off demons or something. If we take it as writ that Doom's strength as a franchise has been in singleplayer rather than multiplayer (as opposed to, say, Quake, where the reverse is true), then PvE seems like a better fit.

 

[sXeth]

I don't know if you also caught it, but Hayden and the hooded Maykyr who puts the Slayer in the Divinity MAchine have the same voice

I didn't, though I'm not sure how he could be the Seraph. Hayden is definitely human (I think we see his portrait in the previous game) before getting upgraded and all that, and if he is the Seraph, I'm left to ask what his motivation is. Surely he'd know that argent energy isn't the most...moral of energy sources, given what he tells us in Eternal.

Well it could obviously be slack writing/retcon.


Hayden's apparent face turn between games is kind of unexplained. He somehow ends up outside the UAC leading the resistance and tells his guys to give the Crucible back to the Slayer. At the end of 2016, he was, while not on the Hell side obviously. Still firmly Captain UAC, and took the Crucible when he sent the Slayer away.


(Honestly, you'd half expect there be some kind of interquel game, or comic or something)


Although we do only ever Hayden talk once he's in the Maykr body (which is confirmed when it plug and plays with the Maykr tech fortress)/ So the human could have just found the Maykr body (since the Seraph would presumably have faced potential death for his role in creating the Slayer) and uploaded himself into it as well.

 

[Hawki]

Hayden's apparent face turn between games is kind of unexplained. He somehow ends up outside the UAC leading the resistance and tells his guys to give the Crucible back to the Slayer. At the end of 2016, he was, while not on the Hell side obviously. Still firmly Captain UAC, and took the Crucible when he sent the Slayer away.

I also want to know what caused Hayden's body to be so badly damaged (unless I missed something).

Anyway, I can buy Hayden going rogue, so to speak. He was never corrupted on Mars (likely due to being a machine), so if the UAC is corrupted and facilitates the invasion of Earth, he can walk away and help lead the defence.

(Honestly, you'd half expect there be some kind of interquel game, or comic or something)

I think it's a shame that Id hasn't done more EU stuff with its settings. Doom, Quake, Rage, Wolfenstein - all could support an EU of sorts, but only Doom and Rage have been given the EU treatment, and Doom's EU has been bonkers over time (see the original Doom novels for instance). Which is a shame, because you could easily take the lore presented in Doom Eternal and make a novel out of it, such as narrating Doomguy's history in Argent D'Nur. Heck, someone on ff.net is already trying to.

 

[SupahEwok]

Hayden's apparent face turn between games is kind of unexplained. He somehow ends up outside the UAC leading the resistance and tells his guys to give the Crucible back to the Slayer. At the end of 2016, he was, while not on the Hell side obviously. Still firmly Captain UAC, and took the Crucible when he sent the Slayer away.

I also want to know what caused Hayden's body to be so badly damaged (unless I missed something).

There's codex entries in the level where you grab him (or maybe the one right before) which state that he led a Hail Mary counterattack which got its shit kicked in, and he's been on life support ever since. I guess he led from the front.

 

[sXeth]

Funnily, amidst the gaming crew, we were kind of noting that Doom Eternal is possibly the first game to really hammer down the idea of a FPS-mechanics applied across the gameplay.



We were actually cross-comparing it with Destiny, and (besides noting that Doomguy has a wider array of powers then a guardian, and an upgrade tree for every weapon that can unlock actual mechanical shifts). And its somewhat impressive that DE kind of avoids bullet sponge DPS checks almost entirely, instead every single enemy past basic fodder instead has some strategy or requires a shift in attack method to take it down efficiently or reduce its threat to manageable levels.


That its able to do that smoothly in the midst of horde-shooter levels of combat is fairly impressive (The other similarly oriented game I can think of is Horizon Zero Dawn, but that was much more limited in what it would throw at you)

 

[Worgen]

Civvie 11 has his take on the game out now too. Looks like he really liked it and found it pretty damn hard.

 

[Ravinoff]

There's codex entries in the level where you grab him (or maybe the one right before) which state that he led a Hail Mary counterattack which got its shit kicked in, and he's been on life support ever since. I guess he led from the front.

That's actually really consistent with a few of the lore entries from 2016, he specifically installed his brain in a nine-foot-tall cyborg body to be able to do shit like lead expeditions into Hell.

When his decision to choose such a mammoth mechanical physique was questioned, Samuel responded "Dedicating the future of mankind is dangerous work. You never know when we may need a hero."