DotA Creators "Counter-File" Trademark Against Valve

Cherry Cola

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Jun 26, 2009
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I don't see a problem here.

What, they're mad that Valve is possibly making a DotA clone? How is that bad? Valve are one of the biggest developers out there, how is it bad that they are making their own DotA? Odds are that their version is going to be superior to the WC3 community one as it's going to have superior man power working on the game.

That's if Valve are actually making a clone of course.
 

DTWolfwood

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Oct 20, 2009
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Shocking how Defense of the Ancients was never trademarked to begin with. DotA games need a Genre name damn it (Hero Defense?)! Tired of referring to games like them in terms of a MOD.
 

Cherry Cola

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FinalDream said:
Outlaw Torn said:
Did it not occur to them that Valve are probably being the clever bastards that they usually are and will probably turn everything on its head by revealing something that has nothing to do with DotA but just happens to be called DOTA?
like Defence of the Ancestors? :D
Defiance of the Androids?

Defecating on the Anglo-saxons?

Dora on the Alps?
 

SomeBoredGuy

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Nov 18, 2009
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cainx10a said:
I respect his opinion, and agree to it. It would go to waste that Valve will be recognized by new players as the "creators" of DOTA, same kinda goes for Alien Swarm: everyone was praising Valve for releasing the game, but few even acknowledge the real creators of the game, those good folks at Black Cat Games.
Actually, last I checked, the game was still created by the original makers of the Alien Swarm mod. I just so happened that they were employed by Valve at the time and used it to their advantage to make the game a big Valve title to draw more people into it.

Pretty much the same thing is happening here, I believe. They have hired the creators of the original DotA mod to create a new version which benefits Valve since they get props for releasing it to everyone who hasn't played and had no intention of playing the original (and also money if they're intending to make it a commercial release, not like Alien Swarm) while the original team benefit from having loads more people see their work and get all that purdy Valve money.
 

GiantRedButton

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Mar 30, 2009
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Hubilub said:
I don't see a problem here.

What, they're mad that Valve is possibly making a DotA clone? How is that bad? Valve are one of the biggest developers out there, how is it bad that they are making their own DotA? Odds are that their version is going to be superior to the WC3 community one as it's going to have superior man power working on the game.

That's if Valve are actually making a clone of course.
It gets even better. The guys that try to nip the trademark away from Valve made a dotaclone, while the original creators are at Valve.
But since Valve would be competing with their heroshop based game they try to sabotage it. (If that even happens^^)
The title is a bit misleading though^^
 

Grey_Focks

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Jan 12, 2010
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I understand where these guys are coming from. They're fine with Valve making their own DOTA clone, they just don't want them to control all things DOTA, which would presumably happen if they got the copyright. This means they could shutdown the WC3 map if they wanted to. This is a bad thing.
 

Delusibeta

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Mar 7, 2010
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FinalDream said:
Outlaw Torn said:
Did it not occur to them that Valve are probably being the clever bastards that they usually are and will probably turn everything on its head by revealing something that has nothing to do with DotA but just happens to be called DOTA?
like Defence of the Ancestors? :D
Death of the Ages? Actually, that's a good one.
 

Nailz

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GiantRedButton said:
Hubilub said:
I don't see a problem here.

What, they're mad that Valve is possibly making a DotA clone? How is that bad? Valve are one of the biggest developers out there, how is it bad that they are making their own DotA? Odds are that their version is going to be superior to the WC3 community one as it's going to have superior man power working on the game.

That's if Valve are actually making a clone of course.
It gets even better. The guys that try to nip the trademark away from Valve made a dotaclone, while the original creators are at Valve.
But since Valve would be competing with their heroshop based game they try to sabotage it. (If that even happens^^)
The title is a bit misleading though^^
I think your taking away from the point they raised. Dota should be owned by the community and if Icefrog wants to work with Valve that's great but it should not be called dota. Stop acting as if they're trying to fuck over valve somehow.
 

qbanknight

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Valve bought the creator of DOTA, the creator should have whatever say in how he uses his precious little mod. If he's tired of making a freeware game and wants to join the big boys, and he couldn't have picked a better company, then he should be allow to carry the name wherever he goes. The DOTA community, as the selfish internet hellspawn nerds they are, can properly shove it if the creator wants to tag with Valve. Besides it's not like their precious FREE mod is going anywhere.
 

Kilo24

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I'd imagine that Valve releasing "DOTA 2" would damage the further development of DOTA for Warcraft 3, and also erode the player base. It's pretty odd to still be working on a game while its sequel is already released, and can be a bit demoralizing as people will generally assume the sequel is better.

That's the primary problem I thought of when I heard Pendragon's/Guinsoo's complaints, anyway.
 

GiantRedButton

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Mar 30, 2009
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Nailz said:
GiantRedButton said:
Hubilub said:
I don't see a problem here.

What, they're mad that Valve is possibly making a DotA clone? How is that bad? Valve are one of the biggest developers out there, how is it bad that they are making their own DotA? Odds are that their version is going to be superior to the WC3 community one as it's going to have superior man power working on the game.

That's if Valve are actually making a clone of course.
It gets even better. The guys that try to nip the trademark away from Valve made a dotaclone, while the original creators are at Valve.
But since Valve would be competing with their heroshop based game they try to sabotage it. (If that even happens^^)
The title is a bit misleading though^^
I think your taking away from the point they raised. Dota should be owned by the community and if Icefrog wants to work with Valve that's great but it should not be called dota. Stop acting as if they're trying to fuck over valve somehow.
Valve shutting down modders seems pretty rediculous considering that they are pretty much the nly developer that lets fans do whatever they want with their ips. Valve is as pro modding as anyone gets.
A competing buisness trying to hamper a upcoming competitor is usual and certainly the most propable option.
Also i think icefrog or now his studio deserves the ip he created.
Riot games isnt trying to keep the Ip to the modders but filed to get it themselfs. Thats a pretty important difference.
They aren't attempting to make it free but they want the trademark to belong to their company.
John Funk said:
Riot Games, which makes the free-to-play DotA clone League of Legends, filed a competing trademark for Defense of the Ancients that attempts to block any claim Valve would have to the name.
>
You can sue against trademarks but they specifically filed it for themselfs. That they just try to get it so that valve doesnt seems like a weak excuse
 

Outlaw Torn

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Delusibeta said:
FinalDream said:
Outlaw Torn said:
Did it not occur to them that Valve are probably being the clever bastards that they usually are and will probably turn everything on its head by revealing something that has nothing to do with DotA but just happens to be called DOTA?
like Defence of the Ancestors? :D
Death of the Ages? Actually, that's a good one.
I was thinking more like it being the name of Gabe's new cat. Or maybe Valve have new fish too and want to protect their fishellectual rights?
 

NLS

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Jan 7, 2010
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I don't think Valve would shut down the WC3 version of DotA, even if they could. That would possibly be seen on as an act of war by some persons.
 

Kebabco

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Jun 5, 2010
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Wow, I actually expected people to be much more enraged about this. Valve is buying the trademark of a community project and everyone is ok with this. It's like Microsoft would buy Wikipedia and the whole internet community would be ecstatic about the "better support" wiki's would be able to get....

/brain hemmorage
 

wildcard9

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Aug 31, 2008
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I'm no legal annalist or a trademark expert...but two things:

1. DOTA refers to a map, not a form of game. Riot invented the term "MOBA" for Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. If Valve were to trademark that, it'd be like Blizzard trademarking MMO.

2. IceFrog is not the orginal developer, so he and Valve can't lay claim to the map in the first place. The original developer has claim, not the guy who helped to perfect it.

3. Blizzard has the final say in the whole thing. It was made by their game: if anyone has the final say it'll be Blizzard.

I see this as Valve sticking it to Blizzard as a petty feud. The two biggest third-party PC developers with the most consistently good games on the PC are playing a proxy war, and Valve's fired the first shot.

You know what? This is an EA/Activision Proxy War. EA wants to pour salt in Activision's wounds after the Infinity Ward debacle earlier this year by having Valve press trademark on a game developed by a Blizzard property who's now owned by Activision. Valve and Bizzard where the nicest guys compared to the rest of the dick developers, but money trumps all and it's all about who will win the Dick-Swinging contest: EA or Activision.

BTW: If this Activsion/EA proxy war does come into fruition: I CALLED IT. You heard it here first.

PS: I've got 5-1 odds on EA/Valve. Place your bets, people!
 

Nincompoop

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May 24, 2009
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As a former Dota player and now HoN player, I say that I don't give a sh*t about how it's called. The Dota title can be the whore of a thousand clones for what I care.
 

Popcicle42

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Feb 25, 2010
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In the end, I think this become "much-ado-about-nothing". While I appriecate LoL's sentiments, it's not going to fly in court; they would have to prove that "DotA" is the common parlance for that kind of video game - and while it probably is, may not be enough at the moment for the courts to decide against them - or that the trademarking of "DotA" will damage the "LoL" brand - again unlikely, as they have been running concurrently with DotA as a community game for some time now.

Three thoughts:

1) Interesting enough, Valve has chosen to trademark "DOTA", not "Defence of the Ancients". This is important, as the trademark is specific to the title; by calling the game "DOTA" they can't enforce a trademark against "Defence of the Ancients", as that's not the name they actually trademarked. Oh, they can tell those above-mentioned designers that they can't call it "DOTA", but ok, sure, we'll call it by it's full name instead, and users will just call it DotA anyway, probably saying its "DotA - All Stars", or "DotA for WC3", or whatever.

2) Valve, by trademarking "DOTA", could indeed tell others that they cannot use that name for thier games/mods. As I said above, they might ask the current "designers" of DotA for WC3 to change the name to something else, which the designers might or might not do. However, I doubt that company would waste gads of money/time on the process for two reasons... A) They are fairly respectful to the mod community; after all, many of thier successful games came from mods of thier own games. They understand that community and understand that to come down on the community would cause a large amount of bad blood with the same consumers they are trying to woo. and B) The original DotA was frought with multiple designers, variations, mods-on-mods, etc. There are a large enough group of people who have "DotA" maps for WC3 that, while they could target the largest groups, such as the "All-Stars" map producers, it would likely be costly of them to try to target every person who's made a version.

3) Valve may be setting themselves up to fail (trademark-wise) in the long term. Yes, the name is bringing in alot of emotional connection (and lets face it, that's what they want), but it's also very much a name of the style of game. The suit will likely say that at the moment, it's a clear-enough distinction, but that would not necessarily stay that way. To maintain a trademark, you have to defend it from becoming the generic term for that item: Xerox has spent literally billions to protect it's name from becoming the standard name of a copier, and Google is now having to spend big bucks to make it so "Googling" something only refers to searching on Google, not using a search engine in general. If Valve can't protect the "DOTA" in the long term, the trademark may be declared invalid and undefendable. Which places them in an interesting situation, doesn't it? Either work to make the name "dota" not generic and fight any game that offically calls itself a "Dota" style game, or potentally have problems down the road defending it's trademark. Of course, this is big maybe, but it's food for thought.

Wow, I just realized how lengthy this post became. This kind of stuff facinates me as a graphic designer, so I tend to get carried away!
 

HT_Black

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May 1, 2009
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this is how it's going to go down, word for word:

DoTAT: Our trademark belongs to gamers everywhere!
Gabe Newall: But we need to make sure people can't steal our crap.
DoTAT: Fuck that! It belongs to gamers everywhere!
GN: Did you see what we did last month? You know, that FREE GAME we released over Steam? The one you can download like, right now?
DoTAT: Who cares? DoTA belongs to gamers, not a corporation!
GN: Here-have-a-beer-and-a-copy-of-left-4-dead-2-and-a-picture-of-your-lovely-daughter.
DoTAT: Never mind.
 

Desworks

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qbanknight said:
Valve bought the creator of DOTA, the creator should have whatever say in how he uses his precious little mod. If he's tired of making a freeware game and wants to join the big boys, and he couldn't have picked a better company, then he should be allow to carry the name wherever he goes. The DOTA community, as the selfish internet hellspawn nerds they are, can properly shove it if the creator wants to tag with Valve. Besides it's not like their precious FREE mod is going anywhere.
Just to clear something up here, Icefrog did not create DotA, nor did he create the version of DotA, DotA Allstars, that made him famous. He is probably the best developer who ever worked on the mod, but DotA was created by Eul, while DotA Allstars was created by Steve "Guinsoo" Feak, who's name you might notice in the article as one of the people who filed the counter claim.