DotA Creators "Counter-File" Trademark Against Valve

[gerrymander61]

Pendragon and Guinsoo are fools. Icefrog brought the game to where it is today. It is chiefly because of him that the game became and is still wildly popular. DotA pre 6.01 was poorly balanced and not nearly as popular as it has been since Icefrog took over.

That's just nonsense. Yes he brought the game to where it is today. But I played the original DotA back in RoC, long before there was a DotA Allstars in TfT, and no matter how much effort Icefrog might have put into the game, he would have had nothing to work with if not for the people that came before him. As far as I'm concerned, he has no exclusive right to a trademark. And Valve certainly do not either.
They can copy the gameplay (just like DotA did), but please let them come up with their own setting and name.

Welcome to the forums.

I too played DotA back when it was in RoC and while yes the core gameplay of control one hero, make said hero big, push enemy base has remained the same, I think you'll agree with the statement that DotA in RoC was far from the highly polished, tight, and well balanced game that is DotA Allstars in its current incarnation. I'll agree with you that if anyone deserves the trademark it'd be Eul since he was the original creator, but I would rather see Icefrog and Valve have it than Guinsoo and Riot Games because Icefrog more than Guinsoo is responsible for making DotA what it is today and also because League of Legends eats a hundred dicks.

 

[GideonB]

Because Valve are really gonna send a "Fox-like" Cease&Decist to a mod thats been going on for years.

I think it's just for a game probably using that acronym.
Like
Dying on the Assholes.
Or something more creative than that.

 

[Pilkingtube]

Defense of the Antlions!

/relevant

 

[Atmos Duality]

\

I too played DotA back when it was in RoC and while yes the core gameplay of control one hero, make said hero big, push enemy base has remained the same, I think you'll agree with the statement that DotA in RoC was far from the highly polished, tight, and well balanced game that is DotA Allstars in its current incarnation. I'll agree with you that if anyone deserves the trademark it'd be Eul since he was the original creator, but I would rather see Icefrog and Valve have it than Guinsoo and Riot Games because Icefrog more than Guinsoo is responsible for making DotA what it is today and also because League of Legends eats a hundred dicks.

If we must give real credit for DotA give it to Icefrog, simply because he has put more man hours of work into the game than any other two people combined; including Pendragon and Guinsoo. Or if you're still a stickler for the "chronological choice", then give it to whoever made Aeon of Strife for Starcraft 1, because that's really where DotA was born.

But for fuck's sake, don't give Eul any promotion. He took credit for the work of others.
Sithis and Kegsta took over the map for a damn good reason.

 

[TraderJimmy]

I'm hoping this is more of the hype and biased reporting that's been slowly infiltrating the Escapist's newsroom (the "anything to make an interesting story" attitude that's been becoming slowly more and more prevalent). Entertaining as that stuff is, it makes it even harder to swallow when a previously-respected company like VALVe does something like this.

I don't want to believe it + this site's newsroom has little credibility (for me only, perhaps) = I won't believe it until a REPUTABLE source confirms it.

 

[Dys]

If Valve will let me download their new maps so that I can actually play their DotA clone, then I fully support them and their tyrannical trademarking.

[sub]I've never been able to play DotA because I've never been able to download the damn map before I get booted <,<[/sub]

It's far quicker and easier to just download the map from www.getdota.com or by following the links on the official dota website. People tend to not like waitint for the relatively slow downloads.

OT:As a dota player I don't much care what valve do with the game should they win the rights to the name. The WC3 mod is somewhat irreplacable, there are plenty of clones out there and none of them are as popular as the original, this isn't because of the name. It's because the old one is familiar, dynamic (not boring, each game is different) and the playerbase already own the game. I can't see people switching to anything else without good reason.

 

[mxfox408]

Im suprised blizzard hasnt stepped in on this lord knows the activision nazi kotick would try to make it subscription based.

They can't say jack shit. Because they don't own DotA. Nobody does (well, not yet anyway).

Blizzard owns the map coding, and editor coding, but NOT the concept (which can't be copyrighted anyway, that is like saying Adobe owns the content of every PDF file in the world).
They can say whatever they like in their EULA, but copyright law does not respect any claim Blizzard can make on DotA as a concept or as a name. Period.

EDIT: (Doh. Check messages more often)

Which would be impressive, considering they signed The Beatles. AFAIK they're part of EMI now.

Even the mighty can fall in due time. That, and 30 years of poor signing contracts.

Honestly? While I'd prefer it if neither of the two get the copyright, I can't help but feel that both are going to get away with it, considering they Valve applied specifically for "DOTA", while Riot has applied for "Defence of the Ancients", (and presumably DOTA too). Ultimately, I'd imagine the DotA AA community wouldn't be best pleased.

I don't see this ending well either way, because even if Pendragon and Guinsoo manage to win this, they can still effectively lose the copyright due to loose enforcement.
When you file for a copyright, it's up to the OWNER to determine how liberally it can be used by others, not the court of law.

For example, if I owned Mickey Mouse, and I let some random schlub make a movie, and then publicly OK that as long as they didn't make a direct profit. That's one thing.
If I let them make a movie, then sell merchandise based on that movie, and I don't call for a cease and desist, but later encounter another schlub making a movie in the same manner, I can't prosecute the latter dude because my first decision set precedent.
The law is made that way to prevent legal fraud while enabling artistic license without drowning it completely in impractical legalese.

Hence, why it's best to send a "Cease and Desist" statement to the offender BEFORE engaging them in court.

Now, that's an overly simplified butchering of the basics (get a real lawyer in here), but that's what's at stake here.
If Guinsoo and company win, they have to write up an open public license for it, AND enforce that license.
If Valve wins, then you can bet there will be no open public license, but that shouldn't matter because GUINSOO AND FRIENDS ALREADY DROPPED DOTA FOR THEIR OWN PROJECT.
That's why this baffles me.

I ment exactly how i said it, valve is attempting to take control of the nameso why not blizzard???

 

[jerrrry]

It gets even better. The guys that try to nip the trademark away from Valve made a dotaclone, while the original creators are at Valve.
But since Valve would be competing with their heroshop based game they try to sabotage it. (If that even happens^^)
The title is a bit misleading though^^

Actually, Guinsoo and Pendragon worked on the original DoTA before Icefrog did (although I don't think they were among the creators either). Icefrog basically took over from them (and others). Granted, he did a great job and most people associate DoTA with him, it wasn't his originally. They now work for the LoL developer, but that doesn't mean they weren't involved in the original DoTA.

 

[DeadAccountMoveAlong]

[/quote]

Someones hating without knowing what he's talking about or reading past the title. Pen and Guinsoo also were responsible, and made their -own F2P DotA game. They started their own company, and are just as responsible for DotA as Ice, if not more. The two are arguing that DotA itself belongs to the community and nobody should "carry the name" or full ownership.
Don't be ignorant.

I'm going to honk my Inaccuracy Horn here and point out that, according to Wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_Games] and Riot's own home page, Riot started out in 2006 and that Pendragon and Guinsoo joined Riot during the development of League of Legends. So yeah, slight inaccuracy there.

Thank you for keeping me honest with the Inaccuracy Horn, I was in the car and didn't have the data on hand. I'd go correct myself but it's done. :3

 

[Asehujiko]

So basicaly:
-Eul steals somebody's starcraft map, ports it to WCIII and abandons it.
-Guinsoo takes Eul's half finished map and ports it to TFT, where he abandons it too.
-Icefrog continues development of Guinsoo's old project with Guinsoo's blessings and works on it for 6 years.
-Pendragon is the self appointed admin of a fan forum and hasn't ever touched the map editor.
-Icefrog finally gets some recognition for his work and gets hired by Valve(who have a history of hiring talented modders or indie studios, see: counterstrike, team fortress, portal, alien swarm)
-Guinsoo throws a hissy fit and demands control over something he hasn't touched for years and officially transfered control of to Icefrog.
-Pendragon starts whining too because he's thinks he's important.

 

[GiantRedButton]

It gets even better. The guys that try to nip the trademark away from Valve made a dotaclone, while the original creators are at Valve.
But since Valve would be competing with their heroshop based game they try to sabotage it. (If that even happens^^)
The title is a bit misleading though^^

Actually, Guinsoo and Pendragon worked on the original DoTA before Icefrog did (although I don't think they were among the creators either). Icefrog basically took over from them (and others). Granted, he did a great job and most people associate DoTA with him, it wasn't his originally. They now work for the LoL developer, but that doesn't mean they weren't involved in the original DoTA.

Interesting thanks for the info
But Icefrog still did most of the work and control has pretty much been handed over to him?
Or do other ppl still work on it?

 

[Antari]

And another tyranical corporation wins out against the public. Whoever piles the most money on the scales of justice wins. This planet is such fail.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I ment exactly how i said it, valve is attempting to take control of the name so why not blizzard???

Ask Blizzard. I have no idea why they didn't jump on that pile of money when they had the chance.