DotA vs LoL...which is better?

[Yeager942]

Well Valve's EU servers actually work most of the time so there's that, EU West OP. In terms of gameplay I prefer League because the engine DOTA 2 runs on is absolute wank. Apparently they just took the original DOTA Warcraft 3 engine or what have you and HD'd up with zero attempt at improvement.

Oh but don't worry guys, it means that all the guys who played DOTA 1 can still be familiar with the shit controls if they transition! Instead of taking a week at most to get used to how not shit the new engine would feel. Logic.

I could go on about the engine for all the minor annoyances but mainly, pathfinding. The amount of times my character has ran in a little circle then finally decides to move the way I fucking told her to five seconds ago when she's already been stunned senseless and killed. That or getting blocked on every single minion ever.


For hero balance, DOTA doesn't have any, League is trying to balance over 100 of the bloody things so it's a little bit trying for them, it's item balance they have trouble with (lol Trinity Force strikes again) DOTA 2 has a fucking hard on for stealth mechanics for fuck all reason, League has a strict meta and DOTA just does whatever and nobody cares.

It's not that Dota doesn't have a meta, it's just that hero roles are so much more flexible than LoL is.

I played LoL for nearly three years and I've since started transitioning into Dota 2. Dota is significantly more complex than LoL, but it's a complexity that I enjoy. The engine LoL runs in prevents the game from having as many varied mechanics as Dota (such as multiple unit control), so the hero design in Dota is much more varied. Additionally, LoL has painful power creep, which really puts me off of buying new champions. Both games have >120 characters to pick from so I love the fact that Dota gives you all of them up front. It's really painful to spend all your hard earned IP on champion you thought you may like only to discover that the champion sucks, and don't even get me started on runes.

However, all of this may mean for naught if Dota's complexity scares you. I have many friends who started LoL with me and refuse to make the transition into Dota merely because they have grown used to LoL's engine and mechanics. If you want the simpler, leaner game, go for LoL. If the complexity of Dota doesn't scare you, then Dota is better. That's not to say that Dota is IMPOSSIBLE TO LEARN, just that it more difficult when compared to LoL (which is already really complex when compared to other games).

It's kinda odd that of all the comments I've read so far, this is the one that actually offended me, but it did, so here goes.

I am not scared of complexity. I am a terrible multi-tasker. I don't do well when I have to consider what I am building, my wards, my cool downs, all of the same for my teammates and opponents, when to last hit, and all the rest. This only gets worse when I have to memorize just how long range my dash goes so I don't click too far away and waste a third of the distance, or just how the turret's range is going to mutate after I've pissed it off. I don't want to have to think about even more when I play a MOBA. That does not make me a coward.

I apologize that my post offended you, as that was my furthest intention. I only meant to address several issues that League players have regarding dota. I didn't mean to apply that you lack the intelligence to play Dota, just that Dota possesses relatively more complex mechanics than league, increasing the barrier of entry.

 

[AwesomeHatMan]

I don't think that's the case. The towers being weaker and the fact that heroes don't have a get out of jail free card with flash means the early game is less passive.

Yeah, good call on the easier to tower dive thing meaning earlier aggression but you also need strong towers so the more poke/kite/range champs aren't too dominant at the start. Of course all this sort of stuff needs to be in balance not too much turtling/not too aggressive. I just found the way LoL is designed allows for the better game dynamic for me and I reckon most people in terms of what is more fun.

However I reckon the Summoner Spells, such as Flash, aren't just a simple escape card as they can be used aggressively. I am sure (even though I have no statistics on this) that SS create far more kill opportunities than escape opportunities. In DotA doesn't everyone get a Blink Dagger anyway? Or is that not a thing in DotA2?

Other features I forgot to mention Teleporting and Couriers I reckon I prefer the LoL setup too.

 

[synobal]

At the end of the day Dota2 has the better business model, than LOL. Which ultimately in my mind makes it a better game.

 

[Naeras]

Dota 2 also has more gimmicky heroes overall(stealth heroes, illusion heroes, Tinker, etc), which might or might not appeal to your tastes.

How is that gimmicky? A gimmick is a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries. However, the special feature is typically thought to be of little relevance or use. In each case it's not a gimmick, but a central part of that character and playstyle. Stealth heroes terrorize enemy supports by ganking them and killing them in the middle of a teamfights. Illusion heroes with diffusal blade are capable of draining enemy heroes of mana in mere seconds and Phantom Lancer alone can fight entire enemy team. And Tinker! Give him Boots of Travel and he will become the most mobile and pushing hero in the game.

You're using the term differently from me, then, possibly because I learned the term from how it's generally used in RTSes or fighting games. By "gimmicky", I'm referring to a feature that sets a hero apart from others in terms of playstyle, but is something that a player would be wise not to overly rely on, as it's usually either relatively easy to counter for more experienced players, or (more often) a particular kind of playstyle that doesn't translate well to the rest of the cast. If you're new and play something "gimmicky" in this sense, you might have a tendency of developing bad habits.

In DotA and similar games, stealth heroes are a very good example of this. I've seen certain players go 15-0 with Rikimaru in one game, and the next game they're going 0-8 within 15 minutes followed by a ragequit. The entire success of these players hinges on stealth, and a lot of them tend to have massive troubles with adapting when people know how to play against it. They're too used to just being able to go wherever they want, so they tend to get caught horribly out of position when the opponents have some kind of invisibility detection. The stealth allowed them to succeed for a long time without having to bother learning intelligent positioning, so the players in question perform far worse once their stealth gets countered, or when they have to pick other kinds of heroes.

It's kind of like a guy I'm playing SF4 with. He's a pretty damn good T.Hawk-player, but since T.Hawk currently relies largely relies on the opponents not knowing the match-up properly, as well as some other stuff that a lot of stuff other characters just don't have, it means a lot of the things he learned playing that character translates very badly to other characters. As such, he'll generally blow me up with one character and lose when he uses other characters.

Of course, being gimmicky doesn't mean that the hero in question is bad or anything of that kind. Just see Nyx, Tinker, Bounty, PL, Naga and several others for examples of that. Played intelligently, all of these heroes are incredibly powerful, and commonly picked competitively for a reason.

 

[Lyri]

You're using the term differently from me, then, possibly because I learned the term from how it's generally used in RTSes or fighting games. By "gimmicky", I'm referring to a feature that sets a hero apart from others in terms of playstyle, but is something that a player would be wise not to overly rely on, as it's usually either relatively easy to counter for more experienced players, or (more often) a particular kind of playstyle that doesn't translate well to the rest of the cast. If you're new and play something "gimmicky" in this sense, you might have a tendency of developing bad habits.

In DotA and similar games, stealth heroes are a very good example of this. I've seen certain players go 15-0 with Rikimaru in one game, and the next game they're going 0-8 within 15 minutes followed by a ragequit. The entire success of these players hinges on stealth, and a lot of them tend to have massive troubles with adapting when people know how to play against it. They're too used to just being able to go wherever they want, so they tend to get caught horribly out of position when the opponents have some kind of invisibility detection. The stealth allowed them to succeed for a long time without having to bother learning intelligent positioning, so the players in question perform far worse once their stealth gets countered, or when they have to pick other kinds of heroes.

It's kind of like a guy I'm playing SF4 with. He's a pretty damn good T.Hawk-player, but since T.Hawk currently relies largely relies on the opponents not knowing the match-up properly, as well as some other stuff that a lot of stuff other characters just don't have, it means a lot of the things he learned playing that character translates very badly to other characters. As such, he'll generally blow me up with one character and lose when he uses other characters.

Of course, being gimmicky doesn't mean that the hero in question is bad or anything of that kind. Just see Nyx, Tinker, Bounty, PL, Naga and several others for examples of that. Played intelligently, all of these heroes are incredibly powerful, and commonly picked competitively for a reason.

In the context of DotA, your version of "gimmicky" is wrong.

Heroes have roles and niches they fit into, the gimmicky part comes with the builds.

Gimmicky is like Lion building a dagon to double burst, the build doesn't normally work and you shouldn't do it but it's a gimmicky way to play him for a stomp.

 

[Naeras]

In the context of DotA, your version of "gimmicky" is wrong.

Heroes have roles and niches they fit into, the gimmicky part comes with the builds.

Gimmicky is like Lion building a dagon to double burst, the build doesn't normally work and you shouldn't do it but it's a gimmicky way to play him for a stomp.

That's what I'd generally refer to as "cheese" or "a really bad idea unless you got five kills before 10 minutes passed, in which case you might as well do it", but okay, thanks for the clarification.

 

[MorphingDragon]

If I have to listen to Luna or Witch Doctor again I will have to hurt something

Oh my lord Dan, I think I've broken you with my soundboard =D

[HEADING=1]SELEMENE COMMANDS[/HEADING]

Anyway, I like both, but for different reasons. LoL is where all my tryhard goes, because I'm actually reasonably good at it (Gold IV and rising), DOTA is where I go to play stupid-fun heroes with absolutely no regard for people's sanity (Lycan, Slardar, AXE, Sand King, Night Stalker, AXE, Spectre, Windrunner, AXE...)

So yeah, that's my take on it.

Well if you would just put this video on repeat for an hour as my vengeance for all the bullshit Luna lines every two seconds that would be great. Just wait until I find that soundboard, all Anti Mage all the time.


TRUTH COMPELS ME!

I'll be honest, all the one liners are infuriating after a while.

 

[Lyri]

That's what I'd generally refer to as "cheese" or "a really bad idea unless you got five kills before 10 minutes passed, in which case you might as well do it", but okay, thanks for the clarification.

Well, it isn't really cheese.
It's not like being Forest Law and spamming rainbow kicks or playing Protoss in SC2 and two gate proxy rushing.

You can't cheese at all in DotA, you can play gimmicky builds that relay on advantages certain heroes has.
For instance, Warlock has an ultimate that will allow him to stun in a large aoe and summon a demon from the depths to fight for him, acquiring a refresher orb will allow him to refresh all his spells, allowing him to do two ultimates and
have two demons after two large stuns.
The gimmick is that Orb isn't usually picked up for most standard Warlock builds, but you can certainly go for one but at a cost.

 

[WenisPagon]

Dota 2 also has more gimmicky heroes overall(stealth heroes, illusion heroes, Tinker, etc), which might or might not appeal to your tastes.

How is that gimmicky? A gimmick is a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries. However, the special feature is typically thought to be of little relevance or use. In each case it's not a gimmick, but a central part of that character and playstyle. Stealth heroes terrorize enemy supports by ganking them and killing them in the middle of a teamfights. Illusion heroes with diffusal blade are capable of draining enemy heroes of mana in mere seconds and Phantom Lancer alone can fight entire enemy team. And Tinker! Give him Boots of Travel and he will become the most mobile and pushing hero in the game.

You're using the term differently from me, then, possibly because I learned the term from how it's generally used in RTSes or fighting games. By "gimmicky", I'm referring to a feature that sets a hero apart from others in terms of playstyle, but is something that a player would be wise not to overly rely on, as it's usually either relatively easy to counter for more experienced players, or (more often) a particular kind of playstyle that doesn't translate well to the rest of the cast. If you're new and play something "gimmicky" in this sense, you might have a tendency of developing bad habits.

In DotA and similar games, stealth heroes are a very good example of this. I've seen certain players go 15-0 with Rikimaru in one game, and the next game they're going 0-8 within 15 minutes followed by a ragequit. The entire success of these players hinges on stealth, and a lot of them tend to have massive troubles with adapting when people know how to play against it. They're too used to just being able to go wherever they want, so they tend to get caught horribly out of position when the opponents have some kind of invisibility detection. The stealth allowed them to succeed for a long time without having to bother learning intelligent positioning, so the players in question perform far worse once their stealth gets countered, or when they have to pick other kinds of heroes.

It's kind of like a guy I'm playing SF4 with. He's a pretty damn good T.Hawk-player, but since T.Hawk currently relies largely relies on the opponents not knowing the match-up properly, as well as some other stuff that a lot of stuff other characters just don't have, it means a lot of the things he learned playing that character translates very badly to other characters. As such, he'll generally blow me up with one character and lose when he uses other characters.

Of course, being gimmicky doesn't mean that the hero in question is bad or anything of that kind. Just see Nyx, Tinker, Bounty, PL, Naga and several others for examples of that. Played intelligently, all of these heroes are incredibly powerful, and commonly picked competitively for a reason.

Rikimaru is a bit iffy as an example of gimmicks. There are counters to invisibility, but Riki does not need to rely on it as a crutch and in play you'll notice the good players focus more on the advantages his blink, cloud, and passive give him.

E: If you're annoyed by the constant move-chatter in Dotes (I know I was) there's an option to disable them and only hear event-based voice. Really improves the experience IMO.

 

[The Wykydtron]

If I have to listen to Luna or Witch Doctor again I will have to hurt something

Oh my lord Dan, I think I've broken you with my soundboard =D

[HEADING=1]SELEMENE COMMANDS[/HEADING]

Anyway, I like both, but for different reasons. LoL is where all my tryhard goes, because I'm actually reasonably good at it (Gold IV and rising), DOTA is where I go to play stupid-fun heroes with absolutely no regard for people's sanity (Lycan, Slardar, AXE, Sand King, Night Stalker, AXE, Spectre, Windrunner, AXE...)

So yeah, that's my take on it.

Well if you would just put this video on repeat for an hour as my vengeance for all the bullshit Luna lines every two seconds that would be great. Just wait until I find that soundboard, all Anti Mage all the time.


TRUTH COMPELS ME!

I'll be honest, all the one liners are infuriating after a while.

Indeed they are. As Witch Doctor would say:

Spoiler

[HEADING=1]LOOK AT IT GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/HEADING]

 

[Naeras]

Well, it isn't really cheese.
It's not like being Forest Law and spamming rainbow kicks or playing Protoss in SC2 and two gate proxy rushing.

You can't cheese at all in DotA, you can play gimmicky builds that relay on advantages certain heroes has.
For instance, Warlock has an ultimate that will allow him to stun in a large aoe and summon a demon from the depths to fight for him, acquiring a refresher orb will allow him to refresh all his spells, allowing him to do two ultimates and
have two demons after two large stuns.
The gimmick is that Orb isn't usually picked up for most standard Warlock builds, but you can certainly go for one but at a cost.

I'm not sure I agree with that specific example of a gimmick, actually. Back when I played HoN, I do recall that the equivalent of Warlock had the refresher as the preferred very-late-game item. It's just not a realistic item to get in most games unless it progresses past the 50 minute point.

The Lion-example you gave, on the other hand, is something I can agree more with. That build only really works in specific scenarios(when you're winning heavily already), so that amount of money is usually better spent on, say, a Blink Dagger.

Either way, we're only arguing semantics right now. I get your point, and you're probably better versed in how Dota works than I am, so I'll shut up :8

Rikimaru is a bit iffy as an example of gimmicks. There are counters to invisibility, but Riki does not need to rely on it as a crutch and in play you'll notice the good players focus more on the advantages his blink, cloud, and passive give him.

Yeah, his other stuff is really good, and probably a better reason to play him than his invisibility is. The problem is really when someone that isn't very good is playing him. A common mistake you'll see newer players make, is that they will use his invisibility as a substitute for proper positioning, because they assume the opposition can't see him. This has lead to several games where the Riki is just wandering into five people and an invis ward.
Repeatedly.
>_<

 

[WenisPagon]

Yeah, his other stuff is really good, and probably a better reason to play him than his invisibility is. The problem is really when someone that isn't very good is playing him. A common mistake you'll see newer players make, is that they will use his invisibility as a substitute for proper positioning, because they assume the opposition can't see him. This has lead to several games where the Riki is just wandering into five people and an invis ward.
Repeatedly.
>_<

I've definitely seen this and can attest to this, but basing a character's gimmickiness based on the skill level of the person playing them is rather problematic. If that's the case you can say, for example, Ryu of Street Fighter is gimmicky, because bad players can beat other bad players by spamming hadoukens.

 

[Naqel]

doesn't promote the bad habits LoL does

The only bad habits LoL promotes are the ones that are considered bad in DotA, and DotA is the one of the two that punishes you for not killing your own dudes, so... Yeah...

 

[Naeras]

Yeah, his other stuff is really good, and probably a better reason to play him than his invisibility is. The problem is really when someone that isn't very good is playing him. A common mistake you'll see newer players make, is that they will use his invisibility as a substitute for proper positioning, because they assume the opposition can't see him. This has lead to several games where the Riki is just wandering into five people and an invis ward.
Repeatedly.
>_<

I've definitely seen this and can attest to this, but basing a character's gimmickiness based on the skill level of the person playing them is rather problematic. If that's the case you can say, for example, Ryu of Street Fighter is gimmicky, because bad players can beat other bad players by spamming hadoukens.

Let me try to rephrase that: what I consider to be 'gimmicky' is when this gimmick is used as a replacement for some kind of fundamental part of your skillset for that game, and/or it gets substantially less powerful once your opponents understand how to effectively deal with it. That's why I consider stealth to be a good example: it gets way less powerful once your opponent knows how to deal with it(yet it's still very usable), yet a lot of people will make the mistake of using it as a crutch to compensate for bad positioning/movement/timing, rather than as an addition to their arsenal on top of those fundamental abilities.

It's comparable to Eddy/Christie in Tekken(who pretty much defined "gimmicky" characters in a fighting game sense): a huge part of their moveset is actually really unsafe or easy to avoid, but a lot of people will still be relying heavily on specific parts of their game solely because their opponents doesn't know how to deal with it. Against an opponent that knows the match-up, you have to play far more carefully and intelligently. They're still not bad characters, but it does mean you'll probably get a lot of wins just because people don't understand how to play against them, and a lot of their stuff just won't pay off once people know what to do. When that happens, good fundamentals is a necessity.
Stealth is the similar in that regard: It's very, very strong against bad opponents, but against smarter opposition, while it's still a decent addition to your arsenal, you can't rely on that alone.

But, yeah, this is still mostly semantics.

 

[Tanakh]

The only bad habits LoL promotes are the ones that are considered bad in DotA

Not really, using mana for last hits instead of harass, not having a free camera and not pay attention to your pathing are bad habits that LoL promotes off the top off my head. And by bad habits I mean those that are marks of bad/lazy playing in both DotA and LoL.

Edit: That is not to say you can't get rid of those bad habits, just saying the current LoL promotes them.

 

[Sight Unseen]

I don't think that's the case. The towers being weaker and the fact that heroes don't have a get out of jail free card with flash means the early game is less passive.

Yeah, good call on the easier to tower dive thing meaning earlier aggression but you also need strong towers so the more poke/kite/range champs aren't too dominant at the start. Of course all this sort of stuff needs to be in balance not too much turtling/not too aggressive. I just found the way LoL is designed allows for the better game dynamic for me and I reckon most people in terms of what is more fun.

However I reckon the Summoner Spells, such as Flash, aren't just a simple escape card as they can be used aggressively. I am sure (even though I have no statistics on this) that SS create far more kill opportunities than escape opportunities. In DotA doesn't everyone get a Blink Dagger anyway? Or is that not a thing in DotA2?

Other features I forgot to mention Teleporting and Couriers I reckon I prefer the LoL setup too.

I just wanted to chime in here and say that heroes DO NOT get a blink dagger in Dota 2 except in certain circumstances. It's an item that costs 2150 gold and only initiators and some carries typically pick one up. Some heroes have blink abilities like antimage and Queen of Pain, but most do not. Also Blink Daggers are used mainly as an offensive item, since the dagger cannot be used if you've been damaged in the last 3 seconds so it's pretty difficult to use as an escape in most circumstances.

 

[MrBrightside919]

Ignore both and just play SMITE...

OT: LoLs community will drive you away or turn you into a monster. DOTA is a somewhat better in terms of player base but not by a whole lot. Most DOTA games I play go without a single word said by any players. LoL is way easier but DOTA has more strategy and is generally more rewarding. LoL is very colorful but DOTA looks better. I think LoLs biggest strength is it is super easy to run...

DOTA > LoL

Still...

SMITE > Both

 

[Lictor Face]

Here's my logic in this subject.

Does DOTA2 have a giant sentient Armadillo? No... [footnote]Actually I have no idea, if it does then wow, someone copied someone here. The world just isn't big enough for two giant sentient armadillos...[/footnote]

Does LoL have a giant sentient Armadillo? Yes!

Thus LoL is the better game![footnote]Honestly I've only ever played LoL. I'm not hardcore enough to want to try to switch over since LoL fills my need for MOBAs with the limited time I do have. Thus I have no say on which is better than the other, other than I enjoy LoL for its giant sentient armadillo killing machine. Who is Rammus. Who is awesome [/footnote]

We do have a short angry porcupine with an absolutely bitchin australian accent.


But anyway, if you ask me? Dota has more replay value so to speak due to the open metagame.

LoL has fixed static hero roles ( One jungler. One solo top. one mid etc ) while dota 2 can mix it and match it ( Dual mid? Go for it. Two duo lanes? Why not? Trilane. Get your shit on son! )

I won't lie though. The dota community does not take kindly to....fools. ( Fresh tip. Don't try out a brand new spanking hero in a MM game. Test it out in a bot match. Otherwise you'll piss everyone off, including yourself )

LoL is easier to get into and start, most of the heroes are relatively straight forward and don't have any quirky skill interactions with game mechanics etc.

I don't know much about the running gag that LoL players are wankers, but it seems to get better when you cross the elo skill borders.

Honestly, either way, you won't be able to decide which one you like purely based on opinions. Both are mobas, both technically play the same obvious differences aside.

Hell I chose dota 2 primarily because Garena bought out LoL in SEA, and FUCK Garena.

 

[AwesomeHatMan]

I just wanted to chime in here and say that heroes DO NOT get a blink dagger in Dota 2 except in certain circumstances. It's an item that costs 2150 gold and only initiators and some carries typically pick one up. Some heroes have blink abilities like antimage and Queen of Pain, but most do not. Also Blink Daggers are used mainly as an offensive item, since the dagger cannot be used if you've been damaged in the last 3 seconds so it's pretty difficult to use as an escape in most circumstances.

Yeah played DotA way back in the the day so I'm reasonably familiar with the game and I was referring to the item. I was (poorly) trying to convey that Flash is generally used more offensively to initiate rather then to escape (Flash stun combo is very scary, especially if you have a couple of stuns/slows in ganks, similar to Blink Dagger. If you use Flash to get away it's considered to be wasting it as you'd rather have it for use offensively and it has a long cooldown. Another misconception is Flash is enough to get you away whereas many times it isn't.

Quite surprised only initiators get it now. I always used to think it seemed like a good item for almost everyone (as well as Sheep Stick). Of course you'd need to get other items for damage first. Speaking of items reminds me of the Strength/Agility/Intelligence thing which is kinda lame and how there are issues with the orb effects and how there is no Ability Power due to DotA originally being made in WC3 editor. In LoL they were willing to get rid of these bad aspects from DotA which I really like.

(In case someone quotes me saying "Hah they admit it, they ripped off DotA... look up Guinsoo)

 

[prpshrt]

They're both HIGHLY toxic environments with both communities saying the other game is shit. It will make a racist and horrible person out of you. I first tried LoL and people cussed me out and I quit. However, I got into the Dota 2 beta after the first international and the Dota community was young and small and so it wasn't very nasty, so I got into playing dota. The community now is FAR worse with an awful match making system. That being said, I have over a 1000 hours into it, I still play daily and I love playing it. If you're looking for a fun casual game to blow off steam, then league hands down. But if you want something skillful, stressful, and VERY unforgiving then dota. Both games are amazing fun with assholes in it. Just expect to hate who you've become after investing sometime in either game.