Dragon Age II Review

[Paxel]

I hate that the release date in Europe is the 10th?, I want it now!

 

[jonyboy13]

They don't disagree with the views, they disagree with the facts.

They are also getting some of the facts wrong, mainly about the dialogue wheel.

There is no Paragon or Renegade. There's no game mandated right or wrong, good or evil, ruthless or idealistic. Your motives remain their own. Astalano [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.269209.10329650]'s comments to that effect ("If I had a wheel there I would have ended with some stupid "+10 renegade points" rubbish.") are flatly false. While not objectively wrong (If he found it misleading, I trust it mislead him), I completely disagree with P47R1CK [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.269209.10329760]'s comments about the comment wheel being misleading; the dialogue symbols are designed specifically to fight that and for the most part (I think) succeed; although I would like a key to what the symbols are all intended to mean in general. (What's the freaking jewel mean?) Again, there is no Renegade or Paragon response. This is clearly demonstrated in the demo and has been discussed at length. People are taking a useful mechanic (a radial menu, which on a console is much more friendly than a list) and reading too much into it from Mass Effect.

The arguments about the graphics, to me, are the most solid. Dragon Age 2 looks okay, but it's a long, long way from 'one of the best looking games of the generation'. (And for me the killer proof of this is the weird, blocky knife the chantry seeker sticks into a book. You can point to other weak points here and there, but that one is just undeniably bad looking.)

The rest, I'm not prepared to say either way yet. I hated the new combat when I first played it, but after a few playthroughs of the demo I'm understanding how it works a lot more. (Hint for Rogues: Evade on every single damn cool-down.) It still feels clunky to me, albiet clunky in a wholly different way to the equally annoying, clunky combat of DA:O.

But, and here's the thing; we can't comment on the main feature (The story) yet at all. We've not played it, and we can't discuss it until we have. I like the sound of the new, more personal focus. I definitely like the idea of it being set in all one city. (Though others disagree, and that's their right: It's completely a color call.)

I'm maintaining cautious optimism, but I admit this review is making that harder, not easier, to maintain, because it does feel hyperbolic to me as well.

Well I don't know which comments you read exactly but I refered to, as some others, to the simplicity of the option wheel. It is not misleading but it is very simple and quite boring.
I'm pretty sure that when people say that it is "paragon" like, they mean that the basic options are simple: Good - Kind, Evil - mean and for some reason they added Jerk - Tries to be funny.

I understand your point that it doesn't really mean that your character is evil if you choose the evil option but the point is that the choices are bland. While some games (BG, NWN) choices could reach 5+ diffrent choices that doesn't necessery translate to good, evil etc', with the choice wheel you got only 3 which you can probably guess what they will be just from listening to the cutscene.

Oh, I just wanted to add that it is absurd to have the pause option and not have a tactical, really zoomed out view.
It is just horrible, even when paused it will take you a while to understand what the hell is going on since you can't really see where everyone standing with all the blood and poor camera view.

 

[Ashsaver]

The game was already released in my country yesterday.....and it sold out in a matter of hours!

Good thing i preordered them!

But i have to say.....it's surprisingly short.

You've already completed it?!?!

Yes, I sorta endurance run the whole game in one setting yesterday,according to the timestamp on my last checkpoint just before the final fight,I spent 15 hours,23 minutes and 47 seconds playing.

 

[Lillowh]

It's a betrayal of trust because you can't turn on autoattack until they make a patch for it?

Wow.

It sucks that I have to wait a couple days for auto-attack to get patched through Sony and Microsoft's systems, so I'll cancel my preorder and instead post about how great Skyrim is because of Bethesda's trackrecord for perfectly coded and non-bloated game engines! They'll do yet another perfect game I'm sure!*

I see you didn't read my entire post and just assumed, from what little it seems you did read, you knew what the content of the post would be. Here's the TL;DR version for you. At no point whatsoever did I mention X game/company being better than Y game/company. I stated that it is a betrayal of trust that somehow nobody working at Bioware had played the game since it's been gold for 24 days, and that they just found out about it and happened to post about the issue 8 hrs before launch. How convenient that they don't tell people bad news until money starts flowing in and people are locked into pre-orders.


Oh! Plus we found out just recently that the import feature is screwed up so there will be no importing of save files for decisions from DA:O and DA:A. These aren't bugs that happen with these types of games. These are things that relate to really obvious, advertised features that will affect people from the moment they start playing. There is absolutely NO REASON that something like this should happen in a game. This isn't the same as glitches such as the FO:NV freezing glitch where it might not happen to you(I know many people who never froze and some that did all the time). No, these are things that are blatantly obvious from the moment you play the game, even if you only had like 10 testers. These are advertised features that should have been tested thoroughly and found within 15 minutes and been rectified for a day 1 patch.

How about another sum up by a Bioware Forum member

Posted By: Mousers
Looks like they had some failures in several areas when you look at it from a manufacturing standpoint.
Flow of control failed
Quality Control failed
Testing failed
Beta testing failed
and most importantly it looks like they had no testers for the master before it was sent. Wherein you have to have testers that know every aspect of what is suppose to happen so they can double and triple check it does, in fact, happen.
Which takes us back to Flow of control which monitors the flow of all the pieces to arrive at the end by a certain date in perfect condition (no bugs).
And we can't forget Time Management failed also which is part of Flow.
They have a great team and put out great games bit this time I think they had too much on their plate for the time they had. Sad because their reputation and trust is sliding. If someone only would have stood up early on and said no, not enough time.

 

[Smooth Operator]

This is what you call looking impressive? I am so very confused... Have you not played games since 2005?

I hope the PC version is a little better, but the demo maps really weren't anything worth mentioning, it seems all their time went into character design.

 

[Dana22]

3) The mass-effect wheel. Cause lists are better than circles?

Yes. Because in Dragon Age, you would make dialogue choice based on WHAT would your character say. In Dragon Age 2, its based on HOW would you like to say it ("roleplay dialogue options are genuinely funny" - Greg T.). You are not even presented with an full answer, only one sentence sum up.

4) The amount of pause-and-go you will have in your game is exactly what you want it to be. Want to pause-and-go? Play it on a harder setting

I would like pause-and-go on easy setting as well.

 

[spartandude]

I must say i'm very dissapointed with my retailer, i pre ordered the Signiture edition with the exiled prince DLC for £25 at Game, they have just emailed me to say that they can no longer meet this order and have canceled it, while i have been refunded they are no longer doing the signiture edition and the regular edition is like £30 now, i think its just bollucks tbh

tbh, i wasnt too impressed with the demo and the only reason i was still going to play it was because i though the Sig edition with free DLC was a pretty sweet deal tbh, but now im not too sure im gonna bother with this game

 

[silasbufu]

The game is very good. Maybe the reviewer praised it a bit too much, but those of you who just throw a huge list of bad things about this game are crying for attention by hating a popular much expected game or you are just too much of a baldur's game fan ( I'm not bashing BG, just your nostalgia attacks ).

 

[BlindChance]

Well I don't know which comments you read exactly but I refered to, as some others, to the simplicity of the option wheel. It is not misleading but it is very simple and quite boring.

I admit, for me it's just odd. There's no real difference in a list of options in a radial menu, and a list of options in a straight list. I don't think the choices are any more (or less) boring than the first game's. There were lots of dialogue lines there that also neatly fit the 'good guy response' vs. 'jerk response' dichotomy, they just weren't so clearly flagged by position or icon. Still, they were unmissable if you simply read the line.

I'm pretty sure that when people say that it is "paragon" like, they mean that the basic options are simple: Good - Kind, Evil - mean and for some reason they added Jerk - Tries to be funny.

I think the better comparison than Mass Effect is Alpha Protocol, and its three stances: Suave, Professional and Aggressive. This system is a bit more sophisticated, I counted at least six stances in DA2's demo, and you don't get to use each stance in each conversation. But the basic idea remains: You get to define the idea of your character's personality from a set of rough archetypes, and it interprets that for dialogue. I'm willing to entertain the idea that it's a bad system (I didn't like Alpha Protocol's system much, but DA2's seems to have a bit more welcome complexity)

I understand your point that it doesn't really mean that your character is evil if you choose the evil option but the point is that the choices are bland. While some games (BG, NWN) choices could reach 5+ diffrent choices that doesn't necessery translate to good, evil etc', with the choice wheel you got only 3 which you can probably guess what they will be just from listening to the cutscene.

Perhaps, but I felt the choices in the demo were for the most part OK. My issues with the dialogue aren't actually related to the wheel -- I think it worked fine -- but to a certain, I dunno, machoness to a particular moment. (It's right after the ogre dies.) I was struck, really struck, by the fact that I couldn't grieve. I couldn't cry, I couldn't be weak, I couldn't break down. I had options of 'strong and comforting' 'strong and angry' or 'strong and urgent'. That's it. I really wanted to let my character cry.

I also worry about the moral choice the game gives you, after that. (It's the moral decision involving Aveline.) There's one choice there which gains the most 'friendliness' toward that character, and to me it seemed mind-boggling that that's the way it went. I kind of wished they'd had the wit to make all three choices gain 'rivalry' toward your character there, but to different amounts, and then maybe to open up a conversation later that could push you back to friendly when you explain your choice. Maybe that happens.

 

[pepitko]

Great review, this looks like a game with a great story, something I've been longing for in quite some time now. The year of 2011 looks promising so far with DA2, MA3, LA Noire, ES:Skyrim. I will have to leave some of them for 2012, which could otherwise be a dry year.

 

[Carne]

Honestly I don't really care about the camera. And people who complain about the main quest being fifteen hours must not have been playing the same game as me as I seem to remember killing the archdemon, and completing most side quests in about twenty. The stylization of the art and animations don't really bug me, however I can understand why they might bug some.

As for the pause and play issue that people have I'm rather annoyed. You don't /have/ to, that doesn't mean you can't. It's obviously trying to bring in new players. Hell the new elf warrior you get looks straight ripped from a JPG. While I loved to play Dragon Age tactically it got annoying during my fourth play through. Being able to mix it up will be nice.

What bugs me? I will admit that the armor being dumbed down frustrates me. I can live with it though. In the same way that the radial menu bugs me. I'd much rather have more dialogue choices, but I can deal. The number one annoyance for me is that I have to play a human. But once again most games don't give me the option to be anything other than the preset protagonist anyway. I'm not going to make a huge fuss.

Over all I know I'm going to like the game regardless of these flaws. Bioware has a good writing team and makes fun characters. 15 hours is still pretty good when most games these days run between 5 - 8. I can't help but think a lot of this unfounded whining is just hipster nonsense. You gotta hate it to be cool am I right?

As for people who are trying to say Skyrim will be better I can't help but chuckle. Let's face it. Oblivion sucked, Fallout 3 was decent and Morrowind was good in it's prime. The only reason I ever even play Bethesda games is for the modding communities. Without mods I probably wouldn't even touch one of their games.

 

[Edli1]

I can't take this review seriously. The guy said you can turn on auto attack on consoles and that's not true. That means he didn't check for it because he played on normal like a button masher alla Bayonetta.
More tactical? Did you ever play DA:O on pc? They removed the isometric view and the detachable camera.

 

[Canadish]

That review sounded a little over generous if you ask me...
Some of the best graphics this generation? Get real, they're only slightly less dated then DA:O.

And how is Fable meets WOW meant to be a positive point!?

 

[BlindChance]

Oh! Plus we found out just recently that the import feature is screwed up so there will be no importing of save files for decisions from DA:O and DA:A.

Oh, WHAT? That's just insane! That was a major selling point!

 

[Triangulon]

The big question really is 'is it like the demo?'The demo was utter pants. If the full game is substantially better I may get it, otherwise I'll just play Origins again.

 

[Carne]

Oh! Plus we found out just recently that the import feature is screwed up so there will be no importing of save files for decisions from DA:O and DA:A.

Oh, WHAT? That's just insane! That was a major selling point!

It's apparently one of the bugs Bioware already knows about, has informed us about, and intends to fix. Apparently bugs =! a feature that we will never have.

 

[BlindChance]

It's apparently one of the bugs Bioware already knows about, has informed us about, and intends to fix. Apparently bugs =! a feature that we will never have.

I'm just stunned I'd not heard about this. Frankly, that's a pretty big deal.

 

[Carne]

The main problem with the dialog wheel combined with a voiced protagonist is that you will never be sure what your character will say or do. Then it ceases to be your character and becomes something else. Bioware has been moving this way for years, and frankly I find it a step back for my enjoyment of their games. With the old lists, at least you have more options to interpret your characters personality instead of relying on icons and hard-coded "personality" types.

However, at least you have more freedom than in the Witcher, were you "roleplay" a character which has been the main character in several books and is so deeply defined that anything you do must by defintion be either extremely limited or grossly out of character.

And save me from Oblivionesque "freedom", were you have the freedom to do anything and it means nothing. No one cares,and so it makes no difference.

So if those are my choices, my pick is still Dragon Age and Bioware. At least they seem to grasp that the essence of roleplay is choice, meaningful consequences and character development.

I totally agree with you. Honestly they could even have the old lists and voice acting. The radial menu with just a sentence makes me feel I'm playing Fable. God, how I hate the expressions.

 

[HapexIndustries]

I hated Dragon Age Origins far too much to even give this sequel a try, which is a shame because it sounds pretty good. However I can't bring myself to play a sequel without beating the original and I can't even IMAGINE playing the original again. I've never played a game with more annoying party NPCs or a more boring, generic story (ok maybe I have but not from Bioware). The reviews for the first game were ecstatic, and almost everyone loved it, so I am hesitant to believe anything about the sequel until someone says "I hated the first game but this second one is awesome." I'll be waiting.

 

[SFMB]

I liked the bit with "it's good until Skyrim comes out". That's propably true. Didn't like the first installment of Dragon Age, but still played it. Might get this one from Steam summersale...