Dragon Age II Review

[jonyboy13]

Christ, the internet really hates this game. Then again, they DID play a demo, and from that demo they all seem to have discovered it's a 10-hour long hack and slash dynasty warriors clone. Clearly.

Seriously though, what the hell is with you people questioning the sites integrity, just because they disagree with your views on a game? Fine, leave, the site would be a better place with people like you gone anyway.

They don't disagree with the views, they disagree with the facts.

 

[tzimize]

BioWare realizes sth most story tellers dont. You can have the most amusing and captivating story in the world at your disposal, but it means NOTHING if you cannot connect or understand the personas involved in it. There are only TWO devs, of the bigger ones that come to my mind, that actually understand that a story is about its characters. BioWare and Atlus. Mass Effect series is one of the best RPGs ive played since im addicted to games, because it focuses and creates sooooo well rounded characters. Williams, Tali, Garrus, Joker, Mordin, Grunt, Thane, Legion, Shepard. And for Atlus, prety much everyone in Shin Megami Tensei. They make you connect to characters, and thats why, even if its a standard go kill baddie story, you like it. Cause you connect emotionally.

It's honestly a double edged argument you make. I will completely agree with you on Bioware making interesting characters in there games. Mordin, Tali, etc. gave me a real sense of being in ME2. They didn't feel like plot devices (re: most other video game characters, and most Hollywood ones too honestly) they felt likepeople, with their own motives and desires. Even outwardly cliched ones were developed into something more (Jack). The main plot... more holes than swiss cheese at points.

DA:O had some interesting characters, and some bland ones. Overall character quality is lower. The setting though is interesting. Sure it is a generic fantasy trope fest. Diminishing elves, drunk dwarves, bland humans, blah blah blah. The main plot - kill the darkspawn, beat the big bad, save the world - also generic. Backstory is good, with a good amount of detail in the world. Hints of a deep history are nice touches.

What DA:O excelled at though was setting up the factions to be believable and unique. Things like the Anvil of the Void, there are two distinct sides that each have BELIEVABLE motives. The werewolves and elves, Harroment and Bhelen, and on. Their success was that they made two or more sides that I could see why they acted the way they do. It would have been easy to make the game have the factions be objectively 'good' or 'evil', but it painted shades of grey wonderfully. Few games succeed there, Bioware has risen to this recently, and I applaud it. I will gladly play through a lackluster main story if the game is sprinkled with little delightful tidbits that make me stop in my tracks and really think. Mordin's mission with the research, I sat and stared at my choices, and actually was challenged by the choice. Same with the Anvil of the Void.

The best works of fiction will challenge you to think about your own preconceived notions, and beliefs. They make you look at the world through a different lens. Asimov, Ender's Game, Planet of the Apes, Blade Runner, Minority Report, Lord of the Rings, and now Bioware they all have moments that transcend the story to communicate with the reader. Now we haven't hit the point yet (that I've seen) where a game is able to convey that tone cohesively throughout the entire game. For now we have little snippets, gems that come up from time to time. I have great hope that this is a trend that will grow, and someday soon we will have a game where the story as a whole will stand up and demand we take note. These glimpses of brilliance from Bioware make me believe that day could be soon.

Edit: I forgot my original point. Their style is double edged because characters have been great, and I appreciate the focus, c'mon guys is a better than generic main plot too much to ask. Character focus- good, character focus at expense of stupid main plot - less good.

Great post. This is what made DA:O stand out to me too. I was completely thrown off my beat when I first saw the dialogue options, and went: "Errrr...where is the good guy option I usually choose? Er...is there a good guy option?". When I saw the dialogue wheel on DA2 I was extremely disappointed (I played the demo). It wasnt half as interesting as their previous options. I just hope the full game is interesting enough.

Dont get me wrong, Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite games of all time, but DA:O was great in a different way. Different does not always mean bad. I dont understand why DA could not be allowed to be the way it was. Be gray and pondersome.

 

[chainguns]

So this game is perfect, apart from a few minor annoyances which can be switched off? Nothing at all to criticize, or suggest what could have been improved? What is this, an objective review or an EA bulletin? The problem with DA2 is not that it *has* become a hack&slash, arcade adventure ..... but has taken a huge stride in that direction. There are thousands of changes, any one on its own too subtle to stand in isolation as the 'smoking gun', but when taken together, paint a clear picture. Here are some of these:

* The length of the story, where the main quest takes 12-15 hours and required DLC to fully finish.

* The dialog wheel with emoticons for those who don't want to exert themselves by reading, and instead just want broadly a good, neutral and evil option (or witty, flirty etc). The paraphrasing that this gives rise to cases where you pick "But I'm not working for Cerberus" and Shepard says "I'm just working for Cerberus right now".

* The voiced protagonist, which meant cutting out race and origins customization. Because Bioware decided people lacked the imagination to 'role play' the lines in their minds, incapable of adding their own inflection and personality to the words.

* The cartoon-like combat animations, with back flipping ninja rogues, teleporting party members and exploding darkspawn.

* The removal of equipment optimization for your allies, because clearly deciding if armor offering +1 strength, was better than armor offering +30 Mana, was too complex for the new target audience of this game. Instead there are little stars to tell you which is better.

* Optional pause and play, so that instead of thinking how you'd play an encounter, you could just rush in and "that would be cool too". Pause and play seems redundant anyway given the frantic pace of the combat. Pause for half a second and you probably missed 3 or 4 things, so you just give up and focus on Hawke.

* And finally the tactical camera - basically gone. And the snarky phrase in the review

you can micro manage the tactics *if you have OCD*

. So according to the reviewer, I have to have a *disorder* to want to get out of the scrum and get a feel of the battle?

Brent Knowles, the lead designer of Dragon Age Origins, calls this game a sad inevitability of today's times. He resigned when he saw the direction DA2 was going: lots of cinematics, simplified and shorter gameplay. RPG fans should also read the editorial on hookedgamers.com. So whose opinion is more interesting, Greg's or Brent's? You decide with your dollar today.

 

[BlindChance]

They don't disagree with the views, they disagree with the facts.

They are also getting some of the facts wrong, mainly about the dialogue wheel.

There is no Paragon or Renegade. There's no game mandated right or wrong, good or evil, ruthless or idealistic. Your motives remain their own. Astalano [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.269209.10329650]'s comments to that effect ("If I had a wheel there I would have ended with some stupid "+10 renegade points" rubbish.") are flatly false. While not objectively wrong (If he found it misleading, I trust it mislead him), I completely disagree with P47R1CK [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.269209.10329760]'s comments about the comment wheel being misleading; the dialogue symbols are designed specifically to fight that and for the most part (I think) succeed; although I would like a key to what the symbols are all intended to mean in general. (What's the freaking jewel mean?) Again, there is no Renegade or Paragon response. This is clearly demonstrated in the demo and has been discussed at length. People are taking a useful mechanic (a radial menu, which on a console is much more friendly than a list) and reading too much into it from Mass Effect.

The arguments about the graphics, to me, are the most solid. Dragon Age 2 looks okay, but it's a long, long way from 'one of the best looking games of the generation'. (And for me the killer proof of this is the weird, blocky knife the chantry seeker sticks into a book. You can point to other weak points here and there, but that one is just undeniably bad looking.)

The rest, I'm not prepared to say either way yet. I hated the new combat when I first played it, but after a few playthroughs of the demo I'm understanding how it works a lot more. (Hint for Rogues: Evade on every single damn cool-down.) It still feels clunky to me, albiet clunky in a wholly different way to the equally annoying, clunky combat of DA:O.

But, and here's the thing; we can't comment on the main feature (The story) yet at all. We've not played it, and we can't discuss it until we have. I like the sound of the new, more personal focus. I definitely like the idea of it being set in all one city. (Though others disagree, and that's their right: It's completely a color call.)

I'm maintaining cautious optimism, but I admit this review is making that harder, not easier, to maintain, because it does feel hyperbolic to me as well.

 

[Shirokurou]

Stylistic comment.
DA2 is very what do you say, "macho". At least in the demo.
The guys dual-wield weapons you'd never dual-wield. Their swords are always HUGE, even when using the sword/shield tandem. Even mages have a blade attached to their staffs.

And blood, blood,
gallons of the stuff,
give them all that they can drink and it has never been enough
So give them blood, blood, blood.
Grab a glass because there's going to be a flood. (c) MCR.

Just sayin'
Still gonna buy it though.

 

[IamGamer41]

No controller support for PC =

Really no need for it on Dragon age 2.Wile some PC games do work better with controllers(I play the assassin creed games with one)this one it will be a lot better without.

 

[BlindChance]

The guys dual-wield weapons you'd never dual-wield. Their swords are always HUGE, even when using the sword/shield tandem. Even mages have a blade attached to their staffs.

All of that was true of DA:O, though. Did you see what a 'dagger' was like in that game?

 

[BlindChance]

Snip

I do just want to say, I agree with your whole post. I'm trying to remain more on the fence here, but you're making great points and I'm glad you sent me that editorial. I'm wishing I hadn't pre-ordered now.

 

[Lillowh]

Auto attack isn't in the 360 version because they forgot to include it.

Yeah I just found out about this. ARE THEY SERIOUS? THE GAME HAS BEEN GOLD FOR 24 FRIGGIN' DAYS! Bioware reps on the Bioware forums have been saying very recently even that Auto attack is in the 360 version. So, nobody over there bothered to play the disks? I call bull. I especially don't buy their "story". Posted by Bioware's Chris Priestly

OK: Here is the story.

Auto-attack option for consoles was added in to the games late in the development cycle after the initial certification build was sent. The auto-attack functionality was sent to be added to the game for testing and approval. This was why staff said it was in game.

Due to an error during mastering, the auto-attack file was omitted during manufacture.

We apologize for this. It was meant to be in game, but it is not currently in the console versions. We are working on how best to distribute this to console users. When we have information, we will let everyone know.

This was posted 8 hrs before release of the game.

Like I said the game has been gold for 24 days. They have obviously known about this and just kept their mouth shut until a few hours ago when many people who pre-ordered can't cancel because it's already shipped, or won't hear about it before they go to work and pick it up on the way home only to find out they've been lied to.

Don't get me wrong, I LOOOOOVE Bioware. Played everything from the Original Baldur's Gate to KOTOR to DA:O and Mass Effect. This, on the other hand, is a serious betrayal of trust of the consumers on Bioware's part. One forum user on the Bioware forums made a really good statement that you can't really argue against that sums up this situation.

We Tigers wrote...

If you force your customers to commit to you two months in advance to get major content that could have been included on the disc, you really ought to be holding yourselves to an extremely high standard of quality when that release date comes.

I was one of the people who are stuck in their pre-order because of their blatant omittance of information that we, the customers, deserved. I am also ashamed at you Mr. Tito for also not mentioning this in your review, which it really should have been, especially since you said you are able to micromanage the characters if you are OCD, which means you must've tried it out and must've realized it's impossibly hard to concentrate on micromanaging and switching between characters while also having to mash the A button like we're playing God of War or Fable. It'll be so fun to look around the battlefield by moving the right analog stick with my left thumb because my right thumb is too busy contracting arthritis. Also it should have been mentioned because you were playing on a console, which have the problem and not on PC, which doesn't.

Let me reiterate: I most likely wouldn't have canceled my Sig. Edition anyways even if I had found out about this earlier. The problem is they have lied about it's inclusion right up until 8 hours prior to launch. That is not how you win over customers. Also, anyone remeber how long it took for patches to DA:O? Way too long. Or how about the patch to fix the texture glitches for the Armor in Awakening? Oh wait, that one never happened.

 

[DracoSuave]

It's a betrayal of trust because you can't turn on autoattack until they make a patch for it?

Wow.

I just plan on sucking it up and button mashing until they fix it, cause... you know... it's not like it's deleting my save files or bricking systems or anything like that. Seriously. Get perspective. Bethesda puts out games that can become unplayable because of bugs and people take long drinks from their hose of fail... but BioWare misses fricken AUTOATTACK and people go absolutely crazy.

It sucks that I have to wait a couple days for auto-attack to get patched through Sony and Microsoft's systems, so I'll cancel my preorder and instead post about how great Skyrim is because of Bethesda's trackrecord for perfectly coded and non-bloated game engines! They'll do yet another perfect game I'm sure!*

This is why we can't have nice things.

*I love bethesda games, but let's be honest, if Skyrim comes out with three times as many bugs as any give bioware game does at launch, that'd be a cause to party because that would mean they actually managed to catch more bugs than they ever have before.

 

[sanzo]

Dear god the anger in this thread; calm the fuck down people

 

[Paxel]

I hate that the release date in Europe is the 10th?, I want it now!

 

[jonyboy13]

They don't disagree with the views, they disagree with the facts.

They are also getting some of the facts wrong, mainly about the dialogue wheel.

There is no Paragon or Renegade. There's no game mandated right or wrong, good or evil, ruthless or idealistic. Your motives remain their own. Astalano [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.269209.10329650]'s comments to that effect ("If I had a wheel there I would have ended with some stupid "+10 renegade points" rubbish.") are flatly false. While not objectively wrong (If he found it misleading, I trust it mislead him), I completely disagree with P47R1CK [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.269209.10329760]'s comments about the comment wheel being misleading; the dialogue symbols are designed specifically to fight that and for the most part (I think) succeed; although I would like a key to what the symbols are all intended to mean in general. (What's the freaking jewel mean?) Again, there is no Renegade or Paragon response. This is clearly demonstrated in the demo and has been discussed at length. People are taking a useful mechanic (a radial menu, which on a console is much more friendly than a list) and reading too much into it from Mass Effect.

The arguments about the graphics, to me, are the most solid. Dragon Age 2 looks okay, but it's a long, long way from 'one of the best looking games of the generation'. (And for me the killer proof of this is the weird, blocky knife the chantry seeker sticks into a book. You can point to other weak points here and there, but that one is just undeniably bad looking.)

The rest, I'm not prepared to say either way yet. I hated the new combat when I first played it, but after a few playthroughs of the demo I'm understanding how it works a lot more. (Hint for Rogues: Evade on every single damn cool-down.) It still feels clunky to me, albiet clunky in a wholly different way to the equally annoying, clunky combat of DA:O.

But, and here's the thing; we can't comment on the main feature (The story) yet at all. We've not played it, and we can't discuss it until we have. I like the sound of the new, more personal focus. I definitely like the idea of it being set in all one city. (Though others disagree, and that's their right: It's completely a color call.)

I'm maintaining cautious optimism, but I admit this review is making that harder, not easier, to maintain, because it does feel hyperbolic to me as well.

Well I don't know which comments you read exactly but I refered to, as some others, to the simplicity of the option wheel. It is not misleading but it is very simple and quite boring.
I'm pretty sure that when people say that it is "paragon" like, they mean that the basic options are simple: Good - Kind, Evil - mean and for some reason they added Jerk - Tries to be funny.

I understand your point that it doesn't really mean that your character is evil if you choose the evil option but the point is that the choices are bland. While some games (BG, NWN) choices could reach 5+ diffrent choices that doesn't necessery translate to good, evil etc', with the choice wheel you got only 3 which you can probably guess what they will be just from listening to the cutscene.

Oh, I just wanted to add that it is absurd to have the pause option and not have a tactical, really zoomed out view.
It is just horrible, even when paused it will take you a while to understand what the hell is going on since you can't really see where everyone standing with all the blood and poor camera view.

 

[Ashsaver]

The game was already released in my country yesterday.....and it sold out in a matter of hours!

Good thing i preordered them!

But i have to say.....it's surprisingly short.

You've already completed it?!?!

Yes, I sorta endurance run the whole game in one setting yesterday,according to the timestamp on my last checkpoint just before the final fight,I spent 15 hours,23 minutes and 47 seconds playing.

 

[Lillowh]

It's a betrayal of trust because you can't turn on autoattack until they make a patch for it?

Wow.

It sucks that I have to wait a couple days for auto-attack to get patched through Sony and Microsoft's systems, so I'll cancel my preorder and instead post about how great Skyrim is because of Bethesda's trackrecord for perfectly coded and non-bloated game engines! They'll do yet another perfect game I'm sure!*

I see you didn't read my entire post and just assumed, from what little it seems you did read, you knew what the content of the post would be. Here's the TL;DR version for you. At no point whatsoever did I mention X game/company being better than Y game/company. I stated that it is a betrayal of trust that somehow nobody working at Bioware had played the game since it's been gold for 24 days, and that they just found out about it and happened to post about the issue 8 hrs before launch. How convenient that they don't tell people bad news until money starts flowing in and people are locked into pre-orders.


Oh! Plus we found out just recently that the import feature is screwed up so there will be no importing of save files for decisions from DA:O and DA:A. These aren't bugs that happen with these types of games. These are things that relate to really obvious, advertised features that will affect people from the moment they start playing. There is absolutely NO REASON that something like this should happen in a game. This isn't the same as glitches such as the FO:NV freezing glitch where it might not happen to you(I know many people who never froze and some that did all the time). No, these are things that are blatantly obvious from the moment you play the game, even if you only had like 10 testers. These are advertised features that should have been tested thoroughly and found within 15 minutes and been rectified for a day 1 patch.

How about another sum up by a Bioware Forum member

Posted By: Mousers
Looks like they had some failures in several areas when you look at it from a manufacturing standpoint.
Flow of control failed
Quality Control failed
Testing failed
Beta testing failed
and most importantly it looks like they had no testers for the master before it was sent. Wherein you have to have testers that know every aspect of what is suppose to happen so they can double and triple check it does, in fact, happen.
Which takes us back to Flow of control which monitors the flow of all the pieces to arrive at the end by a certain date in perfect condition (no bugs).
And we can't forget Time Management failed also which is part of Flow.
They have a great team and put out great games bit this time I think they had too much on their plate for the time they had. Sad because their reputation and trust is sliding. If someone only would have stood up early on and said no, not enough time.

 

[Smooth Operator]

This is what you call looking impressive? I am so very confused... Have you not played games since 2005?

I hope the PC version is a little better, but the demo maps really weren't anything worth mentioning, it seems all their time went into character design.