Dragon Age: Inquistion - Can Bioware Survive Another Misstep?

Gor Kur

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Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Only someone with their head in the sand, or up their butt, will trust BioWare again. Despite all the apologists on here lying and saying their last three games didn't suck, they sucked, and the next game will probably suck too. I do not buy EA or BioWare games new anymore and I won't again.
 

ZombieOutbreak

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Aug 15, 2013
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What, after they survived the failure that was to some people DA 2, the complete failure of Mass effect 3, the new Ultima game*Shivers in horror*, and now this?

Yea, they are going to survive. Because you let it happen.
 

Rack

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Assuming it's dreadful and still gets 90%+ I don't think that will be the end of Bioware per se but I think it will mark a long slow death. Mass Effect 4 will sell okay no matter what but you need to sell ridiculous amounts to justify good levels of support. If the trust isn't there it might do well on the long tail but that's only going to warrant DE4/5 and ME5 being DA2 style releases.

If reviewers actually start calling Bioware on repetitive game design and terrible writing then... I don't know. It would help me trust in future releases certainly but it does seem most people are perfectly happy with most of the drek they put out so long as the ending is halfway decent.

Maybe DA:I can have worse writing than ME3 as long as the games design is just a little better than DA2 just so long as they go for a simple cornball ending.
 

veloper

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When you look at what happened to previous EA acquisitions, Bioware's future doesn't look too good.
It's only a matter of time, even if the next game turns out to be miraculously good.
 

Silly Hats

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They don't have anything to be concerned about, i'd think. Regardless of what the vocal minority says they'll still do well. Honestly, noone that I know was really even aware that there was a controversy about ME3/DA2.
 

CloudAtlas

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Kingjackl said:
To be fair, one flawed game, one average MMO, and one great game with a dodgy ending that they at least made an effort to fix does not make a company on the edge of failure. The hardcore RPG purists have been crying foul on these guys since Mass Effect 2, but to people who judge on more than blind principle, Bioware are still a pretty good game company. The recent DLC for DA2 and ME3 has actually shown a lot of improvement.
Yea. Anyone who believes that Mass Effect 3 was a "complete failure" lives in a bubble. It garnered critical acclaim across the board, sold well, and is still loved by many.

I didn't really like DA:O, and I had good reasons for that, but you won't see me proclaiming that it is, objectively, the worst game ever. You gotta learn to differentiate your personal opinions from the facts.

So, no, I don't believe BioWare is in trouble.
 

Ruzinus

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Well, I'm sure as hell not buying it sight unseen.

But if it comes out and then everyone and their mother is like, "hey, this is amazing!" Then yeah, it'll go in the want pile.

I think Bioware's already at the point where a lot of people that used to blind purchase their games will wait for more info. So if the games are good... great. If not, those people just won't buy it after hearing the general response.
 

Radoh

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Jun 10, 2010
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You know, it gets really tiring seeing this same argument again and again.
Mass Effect 3 was a commercial success, and so was SWToR.
Even Dragon Age II did okay for itself, so naturally, even after these three games, if Inquisition was a misstep, they'd do just fine. Because despite everyone's continued insistence that Bioware murdered your mother and ate your dog, they still make games that a LOT of people enjoy.
So yeah, even if Inquisition is a failure, Bioware will still be fine, so long as Papa EA doesn't pull the plug. It could kill Dragon Age, maybe.
 

Tomeran

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As some people have said already, Mass effect 3 was by no means a failure. In terms of customer and fan opinion it was a downer(almost exclusivly due to the ending), but most seems to have stuck with Bioware. Personally to me they redeemed themselves with the extended cut and above all, the citadel dlc. If you havent tried citadel, then well, your loss.

Financially ME3 was a major success. In fact it was one of Bioware's best selling games yet.

DA2 is a slightly different story, because there they faced review criticism as well as customer criticism. But the game still did reasonably well financially, and its a long stretch to name it a "disaster".

The only game that could possibly fit the "disaster" category in Bioware's eyes would be SWTOR, due to the extreme amounts of money invested and how few that ended up playing it, thus providing a relativly poor net return on the investment.
Amusingly enough it is not considered an equal fan or reviewer failure compared to ME3 and DA2 most of the time.

It comes down to how you value it: Fan and reviewer appeal, or sales appeal? Its obvious which any game company has as the top priority. Either way, none of these three games have truly been the disaster in both categories that people paint them out to be.

So yes, Bioware would survive another game going "poorly", because these last three games havent(again, with the possibly exception of SWTOR) gone that poorly.
 

Anachronism

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Honestly, I think it's really unfair that their reputation has been so destroyed by their last three games, and it's only because their output prior to that had been so consistently brilliant that people have really high standards for BioWare games. Gearbox's reputation is still more or less intact as far as I can tell, and Duke Nukem Forever and Aliens: Colonial Marines were orders of magnitude worse than DA2, ME3 and TOR.
Kingjackl said:
To be fair, one flawed game, one average MMO, and one great game with a dodgy ending that they at least made an effort to fix does not make a company on the edge of failure. The hardcore RPG purists have been crying foul on these guys since Mass Effect 2
This is pretty much my take on the matter. Mass Effect 3's ending was disappointing, but the final fifteen minutes can't erase the previous 29 hours - it was an absolutely fantastic game. And I wouldn't be surprised if the "true fans" have been crying foul since KotOR came to Xbox before PC, to be perfectly honest, and I say that as someone whose favourite game of all time is Baldur's Gate II.

Fact is, in a lot of people's eyes, BioWare are already dead, and Inquisition isn't going to change that. I think that's pretty unfair, personally, and I think a lot of people's criticisms of them are just misdirected anger with EA. I'm a little sceptical about Inquisition because, while I thoroughly enjoyed ME3, DA2 didn't particularly appeal to me, but I'm going to give it its fair chance. I thought Origins was great, and even though my saves are long gone, I'd definitely like to see the Dragon Age franchise go back to being great.
 

Xdeser2

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I just want to point out some of the absurdity here from people:

"Argh, One bad game and one bad ending arghghgh Bioware is so dead to me!"

Personally, I'm excited for DA:I form what I've heard, but If this is just DA:2 with playable Dwarves and Elves, Imma be a little mad. Honestly, I'd like to see the combat just go back to the style in Dragon Age: Origins, but I'm not keeping my hopes up for that lol.

Getting back on topic though, I honestly don't know if Bioware could survive this game being a fluke. Whether for the right reasons or not Bioware's lost ALOT of credibility with gamers lately and one more big hit to it's PR could be, while not fatal, REALLY bad for them.
 

Demandred20

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I´m firmly in the who cares brigade. They´ve pretty much shown that they dont want me as a customer so why should I care about their games? I´m not mad or acrimonious, just hugely disinterested in their new stuff. If something gets rave reviews (from people I trust) I might take a closer look at the item in question maybe but considering its likely to be released on Origin it has to be something special to overcome my dislike for that system.
 

Maximum Bert

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They will survive for a time but EA will destroy them eventually regardless of what they make. Bioware have been all over the places in their releases its not like they were making solid gold and now make crap or vice versa.

I will keep an eye on inquisition but I am not sure I will buy it I was sort of done with Dragon Age after finishing Origins and never even looked at 2 (busy at the time).

I expect EA to market the hell out of Inquisition so it will sell regardless of quality but faith has been shaken in them for a lot of people. For me personally I dont care either way I have no affection or harbour any hate towards Bioware I like some of their games and dislike others.
 

CloudAtlas

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sumanoskae said:
The quality of Inquisition will be less indicative than it's artistic direction, good or bad. I'm more concerned that Bioware will abandon the ideas they presented in DA:II and return to their normal mode or operations. The boiler plate story they usually work with became the source of Mass Effect 3's problems, because the themes of the story were to complex to be presented properly within the simplistic story structure; Everything they couldn't fit into the rest of the game they pour on you at the very end without taking the time to let it sink in or explain it. They even turned around and wrote a better idea for an overarching plot with the Leviathan DLC right afterwards, so I know they can do better than "Those guys are evil (Because we say they are, shut up), go get your friends and curb stomp them".

So I say to Bioware

1: Don't release Inquisition until it's really done.

2: Don't use your previous writing habits as a crutch just to save time.

3: Don't let your artistic inspiration be circumvented by your fear of change or dependency on familiarity; trust that the artists that populate your teams are good enough that they don't need to rely on a formula to succeed.
I share your concerns. I hope BioWare is not drawing the wrong lessons from the controversy surrounding ME3 and DA2. If I look at how much DA:O or ME2 are praised by many who loathe ME3 and DA2, I just hope that Bioware doesn't come to the conclusion that their audience prefers conventional stories over original ideas or deep themes. Because for all the merits DA:O or ME2 might have had, originality was none of them.

I'm afraid though that this is exactly what's happening with DA:I. Sure, you have your mages and your templars, but from what is known so far, it looks like you'll be ultimately fighting against demons falling from the sky who want to end the world or something just because.

As much as I loved ME 3, I also think that Bioware wasn't able to fully realize the potential of its narrative. I just finished Bioshock: Infinite a couple of days ago, and I couldn't help but to wonder how much better ME3 could have been if its story had been told with the same degree of expertise and courage.
 

verdant monkai

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I would LOVE DA:I to do well.

Dragon Age has never disappointed me but Mass Effect 3 ruined me. I will be buying DA:I but if it turns out bad i'm done with Bioware.
 

Aulleas123

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No, I don't think that Bioware would be done if Inquisition is bad. Yes, it would be one mistake of many and these mistakes are not inexpensive. However Bioware, in my opinion, has a lot of credit already and it would take a lot to dissuade me, and probably some of you, that Bioware is no longer a good company for producing quality games.

First of all, let's not forget that they have a fairly good track record. They created the Mass Effect series, which has had a deep impact on games at multiple levels. So much so that the ending infuriated us because it was a terrible ending to a great story. One does not get angry over a bad ending if the story and gameplay are bad too, correct?

They also created the Dragon Age mythos and while many claim it to be another version of a D&D world (elves, dwarves, wizards, knights, etc.), there is a fair amount of originality to the world and the stories that are shaped in this world. From raging caste-like ogre-ox-men to the eternal struggle between guys with swords and guys with magic being played out in an actual political struggle, Bioware created a fusion between traditional and contemporary fantasy elements to give life to their stories. This originality mixed with things that we find comfortable makes a series fun to watch.

Then, there's the gameplay. Not many people accuse Mass Effect or Dragon Age of being clunky or difficult to maneuver. The combat in these games is usually solid and the other mechanics of these games make these games interesting as well. Sure, a lot of us got tired of the repetitive fights in DA2 as well as the same areas explored over and over again. However many game companies do this much more blatantly, we just expect more from Bioware.

Which is why we're having this discussion. We expect so much from Bioware because they produce good games that keep us hooked for hours with replays and retries. Even Dragon Age 2, with it's missteps, it's still not a horrible game and many of us have played it through once or even two or three times. When a Bioware game comes out, we have very high expectations, ever since Knights of the Old Republic, because Bioware is not a typical game company. It sucks that they're owned by EA but this doesn't stop them from putting forward good products. I think that their record speaks for itself. It'll take a lot more missteps for me to stop giving my money to Bioware.
 

The_Scrivener

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Square Enix has survived a thousand missteps by now. BioWare is probably fine. They have the signs now of creative bloat--homogenized ideas and streamlined shoddy execution in lieu of inspired and interesting storytelling.
 

Rastrelly

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Mar 19, 2011
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After ME3 BioWare went into "Forget about my money" category, and they'll have to make a miracle to change that.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Sep 8, 2011
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The good thing about Dragon Age is that the latest installment comes out after so much outrage that they can't afford to screw up. But that doesn't mean they won't. As a consumer it would be wise not to pre-order any Bioware game, EVER. Just wait a few days after it's released and visit this forum. If there is outrage about it on the internet, avoid the game at all costs.