Dragon Age Inquistion players: How do you feel Bioware handled Dorian?s sexual orientation?

[Terminal Blue]

Yes, but sten clearly says that people of the qun don't choose what they do, but it is determined by their birth and training. So a women would never become a warrior in the first place, if it was a profession that's considered male.

Depends what you mean by warrior, I guess.

Warrior in the sense of "someone who kills people with pointy objects", or warrior in the sense of "member of the vanguard". In universe example: Tallis is clearly female and kills people quite proficiently with pointy objects, but is not a member of the vanguard.

Qunari don't choose their professions in the sense that noone ever asks them "would you like to be a soldier or a farmer?" but it's kind of implied that they "choose" their professions by being good at them. It's implied in a DA2 codex entry (and I guess in Sten's dialogue in DA1 as well) that Qunari culture doesn't see much point in doing something you're not good at, which is the in game reason why Qunari always come across as really terse when speaking to non Qunari (they find speaking a second language embarrassing).

 

[Thorn14]

More or less. I think a lot of people just don't like being confronted with this kind of thing in it's unabashed, unashamed, FABULOUS glory.

Well, that's my suspicion, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

It's more that his entire companion story quest revolves around daddy issues about him being gay. It about as cliched as it sounds and plays out the same way.

More clichéd than, say, helping your ally perform a rite of passage so his people will welcome him (as in M.E.2)? The hero freed at the last minute from execution (as in Skyrim)? The older, guardian-type ally sacrificing himself during a climactic battle to save the day (as in GW2)?

My point being that similar formulae are used in countless RPGs, and we can make them sound clichéd if we describe them in mundane terms. As it happens, I can't think of many other instances of fathers trying to forcibly change their sons' sexuality in games... I can't think of it coming up in any other games, actually.

In real life, yes, but not games. Portraying a real-life occurrence that isn't often portrayed in media isn't fairly described as clichéd.

Bioware has a daddy issue fetish, so people are tired of it in Bioware games.

 

[Arshaq13]

I actually found Sera funny(and pretty darn powerful in your party) in a 'chav' sort of way until my male daelish inquisitor had a chat with her after the whole Temple of Mythal quest. That chat, even though it didn't seem like much, changed my opinion of her entirely and I just did not like her after that.

For anyone wondering(video has spoilers):

 

[Silvanus]

See, those cliches are general and prevalent enough to get a pass. They're classic tropes related to the "heroes journey". As for the one related to Dorian, it's basically the "father puts son in a Jesus camp because he doesn't want him to be gay" crap you see in most media involving gays in a christian family. It's made all the more stupid that you're seeing this done in a basically high fantasy type setting. Just because you doesn't see it much in games doesn't mean doing so makes it "fresher" somehow.

Wait, the fact that it's not actually commonly portrayed in media doesn't discount it from being clichéd? A cliché is defined by its overuse.

I'm not sure why it's "stupid" that this should appear in a high fantasy setting. Could you elaborate?

Bioware has a daddy issue fetish, so people are tired of it in Bioware games.

Righto, but a fair deal of the criticism focuses on his sexuality.

 

[Silvanus]

Well technically a cliche doesn't stop being cliched if the story is the same but in a different medium.

Indeed, but that formula isn't particularly common in film or literature or television, either. I can think of an episode of South Park, and that's about all. I'm sure there are books covering it, but it's certainly not common enough in fiction to be considered "cliched".

As for why I think it's kind of stupid to see in a high fantasy setting, it feels like something you would only ever see in a decidedly "modern" setting. Plus, "magic the gay away" just sounds stupid as a plot point.

High fantasy often takes a great deal of influence from the Middle Ages, as well as norms of old English/ European nobility. Ingrained prejudices fit logically in both, it would seem to me.

 

[Phasmal]

I love Dorian, and I really liked his quest.
People seem to have absurd standards for gay characters that aren't there for straight characters. There's this sense that they have to be done perfectly and live up to this weird standard or they shouldn't be there at all. That's dumb.

I enjoyed it, and I romanced him too, to see if there was any truth to him being JUST about his sexuality. Nope. He's fantastic.

 

[Steve Waltz]

But he's a million times better than the other "pure gay" character, Sera, who was just terrible in every single way.

Thank goodness. I thought I was going crazy or something given how many people seem to like her. I couldn't stand her for even a second. She was just grating beyond any measure I could come up with.

Sad fact: I work with people with neuropsychiatric disorders, such as autism and ADHD, and Sera to me felt like all the worst aspects of those patients mixed with an unhealthy dose of "spoiled baby syndrome". There wasn't a single redeeming aspect to the character that I could find.

The only ?redeeming aspect? I could find for the annoying, crass brat is that she?s a ***** to nobles for ?the poor people.? Still, as much as I hate Obama, I wouldn?t want someone to shoot an arrow in his face, and I imagine the same would go for the poor people being abused by nobles in Thedas also. And yea, she talks about lesbian sex quite a bit.



As far as Dorian?s sexually, it never really popped up with me. I talked with Dorian quite a bit in both my 2 runs, and his sexuality never really popped up, or it was so subtle it?s hardly worth noting in a serious discussion. Seriously, the only reason I know Dorian is gay is 100% thanks to the internet whining about it. Dorian?s preference for men is something you?d have to dig at to uncover and since I never went digging it never came up and that?s FINE with me. Dorian?s a pretty fun character, so I?m 100% cool with him.

 

[Burnouts3s3]

To put my two cents about the Sera discussion, I believe she was written purposely to be kind of annoying and alienating. I never had a problem with her. To me, at least she didn't steal a priceless Tome or blow up a Chantry with the Grand Cleric in it. She's alright by me.

 

[Steve Waltz]

A number of people have mentioned that they felt it was "ham-fisted", or "forced", or something similar. I haven't played the game, so I don't know personally.

I'd like someone to tell me in a little more detail what they mean by this, though. Is it just "ham-fisted" because it's unambiguous? How is it more so than straight characters' interest in the opposite sex?

It?s not forced at all. In fact, it?s not even mentioned unless you go looking for Dorian?s preferences (which I didn?t). Seriously, if it wasn?t for the internet, I wouldn?t even know Dorian was gay. Sera will burp out hints towards her sexually, but it?s pretty mild. Krem?s transsexuality is brought up a bit more bluntly, but if it?s all inconsequential side dialogue that I didn?t bother with after my first run. It might have been a bit ham-handed, but if the game was written by a bunch of straight people that have never met a transvetite than I couldn?t expect anything more. Seriously dude, none of this is relevant to gameplay or the plotline and it?s mostly only brought up if you choose the flirt option with these characters.

The whole ?forced? is in absolute lie because this whole romance deal is optional and not even brought up outside of the flirt dialogues. As far as being ?poorly written? or ?ham-handed? or what not, I haven?t a clue because I never talked to those characters about their sexuality. However, I?d say good on them for at least trying to fit some missing demographics in; it?s better than ignoring their existence. I saw a thread accusing DA:I about all of this and it seriously just sounding like a bunch of white boys not wanting to share their game with LGBTs. I don?t see how these guys can look on optional stuff and call it ?forced.? Ridiculous.

 

[voltair27]

Bioware doesn't really do a bad job with exclusively gay characters.

Both Samantha Traynor and Steve Cortez were gay but were notable for many things outside of that.

Still need to play Inquisition to judge if Dorian was as well handled.

 

[JayElleBee]

I enjoyed Dorian's quest a lot, actually. Mainly because it was the first time I've heard of blood magic being used for something evil in a way that I can relate to. Sure, Danarius put those tattoos on Fenris and the Magisters barged into the Golden City, blah blah blah. I have no reference point for these things. They don't effect me on an emotional level.

Dorian's story does. Other people might say his quest was 'ham-fisted' for directly addressing the issue, but I say it gave me an actual damn reason to distrust blood magic beyond 'teh evuls'.

 

[NemotheElvenPanda]

I'm a gay guy and I think Dorian is pretty awesome. He's smart, talented, snarky as hell, and he's trying to do the best thing for his country by fighting against the worst parts of it. His hat is the rebelling paragon with a cause, not the gay best friend. I didn't even find his personal quest to be that ham-fisted; Tevinter is obsessed with perfection and power at all costs so naturally someone who's an heir to a powerful legacy who doesn't go by what society expects of them, i.e. marrying someone of good breeding to have prodigies, would get in trouble, especially if your father is an important official. I don't really get all the hate he's at the end of. The situation he's in for his personal preferences is pretty much the reality for most gay men for nearly all of human history and in many parts of the world like today. If you won't marry or produce heirs, you were seen as a failure, and there's been plenty of cases of people forcing their gay children to change with dangerous consequences, especially now though many "gay-therapy" organizations have been shut down for malpractice and abuse. I don't think people who hate Dorian or his sexuality actually realize on how much of a big deal it is to be gay in societies that put high expectations on you.

 

[ReservoirAngel]

I'll say this for Dorian's quest to speak with his father: It really tested my limits of how willing I was to play my Inquisitor as the nice guy. I did eventually end up going for all the "just talk to him" and encouraging options during that scene, but every part of me wanted to just slam the "fuck this, this guy's terrible, let's get out of here" option as fast as I could once I hit the reveal of Dorian's father wanting to use Blood Magic to make him straight.

In general, however, I liked Dorian. Especially since I immediately started flirting with him and the flirty banter between Dorian and a snarky Inquisitor is fucking delicious. I never felt like his sexuality was made a massive issue, it was always just something there but it's not like they made every conversation about it. Until that quest or until you go for romance they make it actually pretty vague. There's enough there in his whole "parents don't approve of my lifestyle" stuff he mentions in conversation, but it's never explicitly stated until you meet his father or you start trying to put the moves on the guy.

Also, I hate Sera. Holy crap. I'm actually tempted to make my next Inquisitor a ranged rogue just so I'll never have to put up with her or Varric.

 

[Joccaren]

I liked the backstory that revealed he was homosexual. I didn't read up on any advertising that he was homosexual, I just found it out whilst playing the game - though it did have things hinting to it, much like Zevran did in Origins. Just something about the way they talk, act and look.

Honestly, I found the backstory to be an analogue to the real world. Homosexual people with families who don't accept them could probably relate. Yeah, it wasn't the best written, and it was a bit forced, but him coming out to you, and revealing he is homosexual, and the problems he's having with his family because of it, isn't bad in and of itself.

Woah, what's with all the Sera hate? What'd she do? I haven't played the game yet, but she did look kinda annoying...

I'll run through some of her dialogue from her, paraphrased as I don't remember it exactly:
"I had one of my friends sabotage them for us. They'll be fighting without their breeches. Haha, without their Breeches hahahahaha"
"Hey Solas, how do you say [x] in Elven", Solas: "[x in Elven]. I'm surprised you want to know", Sera: "Yeah, its just so whenever you say it from now on, you'll know I'm not ignorant, I'm just ignoring you".
Solas: "[Says prayers for the dead, or something in Elven]", Sera: "Pfffts ds. Speak actual people talk. You know. People talk. Like this".

She's alright when she's just being a prat and annoying the nobles, its when she goes into full on selfish, ignorant, rude, unfunny, underpants and fart humour that she gets annoying. I hate having her around, because that's 90% of what she is. Its like having 10 year old Timmy from CoD in your party and playing with him. It gets old. Fast.

 

[happyninja42]

While a bit on the cliche side - he's practically Freddy Mercury's more magically-inclined twin - at least he didn't talk with a lisp.

I find it interesting you make that comparison, simply because of how Freddy Mercury was a real, flamboyant man. It's interesting to me, the people(not you, just the people in general), who don't want the characters to be overtly gay, as if people who are overtly gay are non-existent in the world. I think we've all met a few that were very openly gay, and your "stereotypical" gay. So it's not like it's an unknown thing. Of all the gay men I've known, I'd say it was about an even split between those who were very open and flamboyant about their orientation (The Freddy Mercury example), and the ones who are gay, but don't really advertise it. They don't hide it, they just don't broadcast it. So having a gay character who is a little flamboyant and direct about it doesn't really bug me at all. There is precedence for it IRL. My only issue is whether or not that trait is the only defining trait the character has. Then he's just a 1 dimension character, and far less interesting than other, more fleshed out characters. If he's a very well realized person, with quirks and charms, and also just happens to be flamboyant a bit, then so what?

 

[AntiChri5]

Woah, what's with all the Sera hate? What'd she do? I haven't played the game yet, but she did look kinda annoying...

She was designed to be really annoying to a lot of people. It's glorious.

BioWare knew people would hate her, she is the only person you can kick out at any time.