Dragon Age Writer Calls BioWare Forums "Toxic"

[bug_of_war]

Well they havent released anything else in that time, so on a forum DEDICATED to those things, it is not unreasonable to be talking about the last thing released... And I like the casual insults thrown at people you dont agree with by calling them "whiny entitled neckbeards." I would offer a retort, but you know the escapist generally frowns upon insulting people. ~.^

Though it is probably healthy for the developers to see what their fanbase thinks about them in the wake of disappointing games. I pitty the idiot who wants nothing but yes-men talking about their property. If we had THOSE idiots in the gaming industry... all our developers would be stuck with EA levels of PR!

Yeah, I did kinda nullify my argument by saying that Neckbeard bit.

Anyways, I understand that the threads are about the game series itself, and not just Bioware in general. What I meant was that instead of bashing the game until the next in the series comes out, how about start talking about the new game. They have said it's in early development, so it probably wont be out until 2015. Instead of saying to them "OH MY GOD I HATE MASS EFFECT 3 YOU GUYS ARE IDIOTS AND I HATE YOU AND EA", it would be better to take what they said ages ago (They're asking the fanbase what they want to see in future installments) and then say something like, "I would prefer it go more forward with RPG/Combat/More choices/This time period". That way you're letting them know what the remaining people left with Bioware would like to see it go in this direction. Then, when the next Bioware game comes out (In the ME series) you wont have another game in which you don't like. Bioware have already proven that they listen to their fans by releasing the Extended Cut for free.

 

[bug_of_war]

Sorry, but pedestals are for people who don't condescendingly insult a group of people.

I'll have to impound that.


"Yeah! Bioware fans are discussing the last game made on a forum dedicated specifically to that game series! GAWD GET OVER IT!"

I would like to retract the "Neckbeardy" statement, as you pointed out, it makes me look like an ass who's opinion should be thrown out.

So, where you wrote "a forum dedicated specifically to that game series", you kinda brought me to a point where in which I touched upon in the post right above me (As I just answered another person's quote on my statement). IF, you are going on the Mass Effect page to discuss the series, why not discuss it's future? After all, it was announced that they're in the early stages of developing the sequel and would like to hear fan input on what they should try and do with the series. So instead of bitching about the last game in the series, talk about the future of the series. Same goes if you're on a Dragon Age specific forum. Don't go throwing crap at the previous game, discuss the new game so the develpoers get an idea on what their fanbase is looking forward to.

 

[Callate]

I was perfectly ready to reflexively give a "...if you can't stand the heat..." kind of response, but I have to confess he sounds pretty reasonable, honestly.

I do get tired of hearing the term "entitled" slung around so freely, though.

 

[TheRookie8]

To put it this way:

A guy honks his horn in traffic because there's another car not moving. A single, sharp honk is enough to make the car move. But the guy decides to just hold his hand down on the horn, blaring out a long, agitating honk.

Should the car move? Yes.

Is the guy with the horn being obnoxious? Yes.

Is the guy justified in his action? Yes.

Is his conduct? Probably not, because now all the other cars are agitated, too.

So what does the car do? It keeps driving and stays far away from the man with the horn, and tries not to stop traffic again in the future.

That's David in a nutshell, and I'm fine with that.

Dust yourself off, and keep driving.

 

[thanatos388]

I'll admit, Bioware fanboys are some of the worst forum goers around. Still, The way Bioware have been putting their fingers in their ears for the past 3 games whenever criticism rears it's ugly head shows how childish Bioware writers have become.

How have they been childish? They have listened and made changes to the ending over the controversy...why do people still care?

 

[thanatos388]

While the Bioware forums have never been full of love and enlightenment. Ever since they gave what amounted to a big middle finger to the majority of their fans, it has declined into a decidedly darker place.

What was this big middle finger?

 

[Rawne1980]

"I think there's something to be said there about the level of rhetoric and entitlement among online gamer communities in general,"

Stop it, just stop.

Every time I see someone use that word it makes me want to beat them with a giant sloppy kipper.

It's one of the most over used buzzwords thrown about recently (aimed a lot at BioWare "fans" as well) and it's annoying. The only people who still use that word are, what we like to call them in poilte and mature terms .... WANKERS.

"Perhaps there is also something to be said about whether the games BioWare makes still satisfy our core fans."

The sad truth is that the BioWare a lot of us used to love is not the same BioWare that is around now.

A hell of a lot of the core team have left including the founders, it's BioWare in name only.

I don't blame BioWare for recent games I haven't liked, I don't blame EA and I don't blame the "fans" .... it's a combination of all 3.

BioWare games, for me at least, have slipped in standard over the years. As people have left who worked on the older games it truly has shown in the games i've played recently.

I'll use Dragon Age 2 as an example. The first one was fantastic, I still play it now and have clocked in almost as many hours with that as I have with Oblivion (mainly thanks to mods though ... yes you can mod Dragon Age Origins and DA2). The writing was good, the locations were good and the characters were great.

Dragon Age 2. The locations were re-used, the writing was half arsed and a lot of the main characters were terrible. It was a lot shorter and not as varied as the first and didn't get more than one and a bit playthoughs (I managed 30 minutes the second time but got bored).

The main thing is the PR bullshit though.

SW:TOR - The PR was all about it being different to any other MMO yet it wasn't. It was just a reskin of the tried and slightly dull formula that's being done to death.

Mass Effect 3 - Again sorry about bringing the ending up. Casey said "it's not a case of getting ending A, B or C" which was exactly what we got. Okay maybe not exactly ... we got green, red or blue rather than A, B or C but still.

But you are right David, perhaps the games you make now aren't what some BioWare fans want.

I was never a "fan" so to speak. I liked some of their games but the only thing i'm truly a "fan" of is my Football team (note the Liverpool badge as my avatar). But I did like some of their games. Sadly none of their recent ones.

So maybe I need to stop looking to BioWare to get my story RPG fix. I do hope Dragon Age 3 turns out okay but I don't have high expectations for it.

 

[Nimcha]

It kind of sucks to be a bioware fan thease days...

I wonder why people keep saying that. I and a few people I know are actually perfectly happy with the company and the games they make. That's why we're 'fans'.

The less Bioware tries to cater to its so called 'core audience' the better as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Tony2077]

i haven't been there in ages so i don't know if its a bad as he says but if the bs about the me3 ending is any indication it may just be

 

[Legion]

While the Bioware forums have never been full of love and enlightenment. Ever since they gave what amounted to a big middle finger to the majority of their fans, it has declined into a decidedly darker place.

What was this big middle finger?

Well not so much towards the "majority" seeing as we haven't exactly got accurate numbers, but when the ME3 ending issue came about they did press releases which basically said "We know a lot of people weren't happy, but the majority clearly are as we got over 75 perfect review scores."

Some saw this as them saying that peoples criticisms don't matter considering that responding to criticism with "Well lot's of other people liked it" seems somewhat dismissive.

Personally I just felt it was typical childish EA/Bioware PR crap as opposed to them trying to be rude. They cannot make any comments about criticisms of any kind without mentioning sales figures and favourable reviews/press.

It kind of sucks to be a bioware fan thease days...

I wonder why people keep saying that. I and a few people I know are actually perfectly happy with the company and the games they make. That's why we're 'fans'.

You are quite possibly reading a bit too much into that. She didn't say it sucks to be a Bioware fan because of anything they did wrong. She could very well mean that it sucks to be a Bioware fan because all you hear about is how much Bioware suck. It isn't pleasant constantly hearing the things that you like being insulted, especially if you cannot discuss what you like without people trying to start arguments over it.

Although of course she may very well have meant that Bioware were the problem, but it's best not to jump to conclusions.

 

[Misterian]

I was thinking about putting in a joke about Gaider writing for Dragon Age, but decided against it.


I personally didn't let ME3's ending get to me, because I used the awesome powers of fanon discontinuity to pretend that ending didn't happen.

If anything, I suggest we put behind the mistake Bioware made and simply pray they don't pull off any similar ending with the Dragon Age franchise (Or at least have Dragon Age 3 give you the option to side with the mages in the Templar-Mage war, I'd want to do that regardless of how it turns out in the end).

 

[Lieju]

Perhaps the Dragon Age forums are more toxic than before because you actually released a good game, and then released a sequel which was utter shit, a complete embarrassment and an insult towards the fans.

I liked it. I actually like Dragon Age 2 better than Origins, and just mentioning that will earn me such ire and flaming in the Internet that I just prefer not to discuss any Bioware games on the net.

 

[NortherWolf]

Snip

Oh yes, we hang people like you here! That's why what, a dozen or so people in this thread has said it without repercussion...But you, you will be the exception!

I honestly hate the victim-coat people put on. You like a game, fine, deal with it. People didn't like it. Also fine, let them deal with that. Don't play a god damn martyr.

 

[OrokuSaki]

The thing that I've found about recent BioWare games is that they're not THAT bad. Sure, it seems that the best Bioware Games have come and gone (Dragon Age, NeverWinter Nights, Mass Effect 2) but what's left is still above average. For instance: I was not overly impressed with the dialogue and story for Skyrim. The gameplay was nice (if buggy) and it was very immersive, but the characters, motivations, and plot just seemed utterly nonexistent.

BioWare can still make good games, it just seems like they're not taking the time to make GREAT games anymore. Dragon Age 2 was actually not that bad, and if they'd just spent some time making new environments and giving the game a more conclusive ending (instead of saving the conclusive ending to be added on in a DLC that never released....... not that I'm bitter or anything) it could have at least been in the same league as Dragon Age: Origins.

Also they could have thought of a better name, Dragon Age: Origins was called "Origins" not "1" so Dragon Age 2 could have just been called "Dragon Age" and made just as much sense.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

I've been to the BioWare forums only once and I can say this:

I'm glad The Escapist has the rules set like they do. Hell, if The Escapist rules were in effect there, the mods would've had Hammer Streak-Banillionaires by now.

Which sounds sort of entertaining, actually! ^.^

 

[Eric the Orange]

Perhaps the Dragon Age forums are more toxic than before because you actually released a good game, and then released a sequel which was utter shit, a complete embarrassment and an insult towards the fans.

So you think there game is bad and that gives you the right to be a ass hole to them without repercussions.

 

[Lieju]

Oh yes, we hang people like you here! That's why what, a dozen or so people in this thread has said it without repercussion...But you, you will be the exception!

I honestly hate the victim-coat people put on. You like a game, fine, deal with it. People didn't like it. Also fine, let them deal with that. Don't play a god damn martyr.

Um, thanks for proving my point. If you even meant to quote me, in which case, I guess I'm sorry?
I'm fine with people liking different things, and in fact it's useful (and fun) to discuss things you like with people who have different views. But it's annoying when it's difficult to find actual discussion, because as soon as you mention the game, you get 'That sucked!' without any reasoning, too often accompanied by insults to your intelligence.

It's a matter of finding a good forum for discussion, obviously. I just haven't found a forum where (some) people weren't so overly emotional and unable to discuss Bioware-games in a civilized manner.

BioWare can still make good games, it just seems like they're not taking the time to make GREAT games anymore. Dragon Age 2 was actually not that bad, and if they'd just spent some time making new environments and giving the game a more conclusive ending (instead of saving the conclusive ending to be added on in a DLC that never released....

Were they planning to add DLC that would come after the ending? I never knew that.

I actually really liked the way it ended, and it didn't seem to me like there was content missing, it was about how the war started and Hawke became influential and was forced to pick a side, and it told that story.
But I agree they should have taken more time to make more different environments. I liked how you were in the city, though, and how it handled the missions, though. It fitted the game, but I'd like it if DA3 took a different, more open-world approach.

 

[NortherWolf]

Hmm, I came across as a bit asshole-y didn't I? Sorry about that.
But it's about games, like movies they tend to divide people. More so even, as I've noticed gamers either being in the "OMG IT SUCKS!" or "OMG IT*S THE BEST!" camp rather than. "Yeah, I enjoyed it, but it wasn't very good." or "I didn't enjoy it though I know it's a good game."