Dragon Age Writer: Same-Sex Romance is Here to Stay
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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and this is exactly how it should be, everyone free to do as they wish. just wish those people who went off at a homosexual scene would go back to their, and i quote off topgear, "hick town" in Alabama (i realize that many arnt like that and it was probably staged, but it gives me a face to put on people like this)
Ironic how Bioware is so often attacked for actually making *choices* regarding their own games.
I don't see where the big fuss over having romance in a game is coming from either. At least in DA:O you could tell the person to back off or purposely do things that make them a little wary about being so close to your character. Or you can go through the game without talking to the party until they come to you and ask what the heck you're trying to do. It's better than games where the main character is made to be sexual, stereotypical, and straight as an arrow; or so blatantly over the rainbow that they're nothing more than the comic relief. BioWare has taken a rather mature angle with the whole race/gender/sexuality role, and it's my hope that other companies follow their lead and weather the storm of criticism until the next major issue hits the world.
I'm certainly not making a fuss. I would respect BioWare's decision about excluding male homosexuality from the Mass Effect franchise if they were just honest about the reasoning behind it.jamesworkshop said:
Because they're not being honest about it, as the claim that every Shepard is heterosexual is contradicted by what the player is allowed to do as a female Shepard.
One can't say "BioWare are cowards". BioWare is a big company at this point, with multiple studios that have their own producers and franchises with different target demographics.jamesworkshop said:
David Gaider and Casey Hudson are different people.
well said Gaider, well said. It's not as if anyone can claim you're forced to have a relationship at all, much less a same sex one. Even the romance achievements can all be gained via heterosexual relationships if it's that important to you.
Haha male Shepard and Zaeed! Now that I... well to be honest I wouldn't like to see it. Not at all....PoliceBox63 said:
Male shephard is not female shepard I really can't see many comparisons with either I don't think many lesbians consider themselves carbon copies of gay men, maybe they do can't say i've seen much to support the idea.JediMB said:
No contradiction, the reasoning is sound not every character is going to be gay and like I said in another post gay shephard needs another character to have the option available, it's not all about shepard.
Why are people not seriously asking why Shephard had to be a human and it would be just as valid a question, that's just not the story they were trying to tell.
I see no need to speculate futher.
I mean come on being hetrosexual basically is a minority in biowares world.
More like Shepherd and Jacob xD
Frankly, it's about time.
Do I think that it's a horrible thing that same-sex relationships have been so infrequent in games as to be nonexistent until now? No, I would say that the industry simply hasn't been ready to tackle issues like this. I mean, c'mon, we're still churning out Dead or Alive, for crying out loud. Jiggle physics. I'm going to say it again. JIGGLE PHYSICS. So are we ready to handle the complex issue of same-sex relationships when we're still standing around giggling at boobies?
...maybe.
See, here's the thing: sure, games are being advertised with sexually immature themes to them. And sure, some of them are still selling; there will always be the "horny 16-year-old" demographic. (And don't knock them, they help to support good games too.) Thing is...as time goes on, I'm starting to see less and less of this sort of game, and more open acknowledgment that they kind of suck. Maybe we're growing up as an industry and starting to come to terms with our bodies. Maybe the kids who got a brand new NES for their 5th birthday are now 30 years old and are starting to mature.
We can certainly hope so. And why? Is this post about sexual maturity? YES. That's really what this is all about. As an industry, as a community, we are growing up and coming to terms with the fact that not only are breasts not the end-all-be-all of existence (though they're pretty great, don't get me wrong), but there are some people who are gay...and we're getting used to the idea. It's mostly the little kids who are shouting "fag" at each other over X-Box Live at this point, and they have competition now: adults who know better than to do that sort of thing, who have reached a level of enlightenment that tells them that there might just not be anything wrong with two people loving one another *regardless* of their gender.
I think this is a fantastic boon to our public image. In a world that is slowly coming to terms with same-sex unions, the gaming industry is taking a step forward before many other facets of society and saying, "We acknowledge this, we're okay with it, and it's not going away." We're on the forefront of this crucial societal change, and we're using our clout - and my, do we have a lot of it these days - to help create the world we want to live in.
Bravo, David Gaider. +10 awesome points to you.
Do I think that it's a horrible thing that same-sex relationships have been so infrequent in games as to be nonexistent until now? No, I would say that the industry simply hasn't been ready to tackle issues like this. I mean, c'mon, we're still churning out Dead or Alive, for crying out loud. Jiggle physics. I'm going to say it again. JIGGLE PHYSICS. So are we ready to handle the complex issue of same-sex relationships when we're still standing around giggling at boobies?
...maybe.
See, here's the thing: sure, games are being advertised with sexually immature themes to them. And sure, some of them are still selling; there will always be the "horny 16-year-old" demographic. (And don't knock them, they help to support good games too.) Thing is...as time goes on, I'm starting to see less and less of this sort of game, and more open acknowledgment that they kind of suck. Maybe we're growing up as an industry and starting to come to terms with our bodies. Maybe the kids who got a brand new NES for their 5th birthday are now 30 years old and are starting to mature.
We can certainly hope so. And why? Is this post about sexual maturity? YES. That's really what this is all about. As an industry, as a community, we are growing up and coming to terms with the fact that not only are breasts not the end-all-be-all of existence (though they're pretty great, don't get me wrong), but there are some people who are gay...and we're getting used to the idea. It's mostly the little kids who are shouting "fag" at each other over X-Box Live at this point, and they have competition now: adults who know better than to do that sort of thing, who have reached a level of enlightenment that tells them that there might just not be anything wrong with two people loving one another *regardless* of their gender.
I think this is a fantastic boon to our public image. In a world that is slowly coming to terms with same-sex unions, the gaming industry is taking a step forward before many other facets of society and saying, "We acknowledge this, we're okay with it, and it's not going away." We're on the forefront of this crucial societal change, and we're using our clout - and my, do we have a lot of it these days - to help create the world we want to live in.
Bravo, David Gaider. +10 awesome points to you.
ME existed as an idea long before commiting to paper, DA:O was far larger in scope and within the production means of a company of this size.JediMB said:
This paranoia is just strange Bioware writes one particular character as being exclusivly heterosexual and it's all...
EA suppressed it because they obviously pander to the homophobe market they also are chasing.
No the lead script writer hates gays.
The marketing department said no cos Halo fan won't be interested. after all thoses other bioware RPG's they loved
All entirely baseless accusations.
So people are fine with lesbians in Mass Effect, but when it comes to packing fudge, OMG! THE GAMES INDUSTRY IS GOING TOO FAR!!!
Is this news, really? Bioware is saying they will keep doing something that they have, to my knowledge, been doing for about 7 years now. They aren't standing up to anybody except maybe the Phelps, the debate in America is over violence, not same sex relationships. Maybe they might censor this thing in the Middle East, but no first world country government gives a damn unless you show actual nudity- even then, it is the nudity that is the problem.
It seems to me like this is an attempt to jump on a gay rights bandwagon- an attempt at generating positive publicity among the gaming populace by saying they will support gay rights. However, this information is not news to people who have been playing Bioware games, hardcore gamers don't care as long as it is optional, and the vast majority of the censors screaming "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!" are concerned with violence.
I support gay marriage and the ability to have homosexual relation in video games if you want to, but quite frankly, it seems to me like you are obsessing over the "gay gamer rights" angle to a nonsensical level.
What I want to know is: Is Bioware going to support heterosexual rights? Are you going to treat the heterosexual male attraction to breasts, long hair and a padded butt as perfectly natural, or as some sort of mysogynistic crime? I am sick and tired of game reviewers and game makers acting as if male heterosexuality is a crime. It is the inherent nature of monosexuals, both homosexuals and hetersexuals, to focus on gender specific traits, and I am tired of people acting like it is a crime against women for men to be attracted to female specific traits.
Being attracted to large breasts, wide hips, long hair, and a padded butt, does not mean you see women as possessions, inferior, or mere sex objects. It means you are attracted to pronounced gender specific traits. And I am tired of that being criminalized. Yes, women have been oppressed for millenia, but no, that does not mean that every accusation of sexism or mysogyny is valid. This idea that heterosexual male attraction to female specific traits is inherently a form of mysogyny is in itself bigoted.
I have seen many game reviewers and game makers say they will stand up against conservatives, and that they will stand up against the oppression of minorities, I have yet to see many say they will oppose discrimination against the majority, or that they will fight against women such as Gloria Steinem who make feminists look bad.
In Dragon Age I had the ability to alter my Female Character's face and choose her sexuality. But I could not choose her Breast Size. Why? Because it is "sexist" for me to be attracted to gender specific traits? Because it demeans women for men to be monosexual instead of Bisexual? Because it is somehow degrading for us to be attracted to traits that aren't gender neutral? Being attracted to gender specific traits defines both heterosexuality and homosexuality, it defines monosexuality in general. The idea that attraction to gender neutral traits, such as eyes and skin and teeth is acceptable, but that attraction to gender specific traits is wrong, is inherently offensive to monosexuals, as it inherently implies that both heterosexuality and homosexuality are morally wrong.
For crying out loud, why does Square Enix keep reducing Lara Croft's and Tifa Lockhart's Breast sizes!?
/cry
EDIT: To be perfectly clear, I support gay rights, and women's rights. But it makes me angry to have game reviewers claim that it is a crime against women for men to be attracted to traits specific to women's bodies. Quite frankly, there seems to be a large number of reviewers advocating the idea that male heterosexuality is inherently a crime, and a significant number of developers who are caving into them. For some reason, these people think that being attracted to gender neutral traits is perfectly fine...but that being attracted to gender specific traits is inherently sexist. This is ultimately offensive to heterosexuals and homosexuals, as attraction to gender specific traits is what defines both.
It seems to me like this is an attempt to jump on a gay rights bandwagon- an attempt at generating positive publicity among the gaming populace by saying they will support gay rights. However, this information is not news to people who have been playing Bioware games, hardcore gamers don't care as long as it is optional, and the vast majority of the censors screaming "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!" are concerned with violence.
I support gay marriage and the ability to have homosexual relation in video games if you want to, but quite frankly, it seems to me like you are obsessing over the "gay gamer rights" angle to a nonsensical level.
What I want to know is: Is Bioware going to support heterosexual rights? Are you going to treat the heterosexual male attraction to breasts, long hair and a padded butt as perfectly natural, or as some sort of mysogynistic crime? I am sick and tired of game reviewers and game makers acting as if male heterosexuality is a crime. It is the inherent nature of monosexuals, both homosexuals and hetersexuals, to focus on gender specific traits, and I am tired of people acting like it is a crime against women for men to be attracted to female specific traits.
Being attracted to large breasts, wide hips, long hair, and a padded butt, does not mean you see women as possessions, inferior, or mere sex objects. It means you are attracted to pronounced gender specific traits. And I am tired of that being criminalized. Yes, women have been oppressed for millenia, but no, that does not mean that every accusation of sexism or mysogyny is valid. This idea that heterosexual male attraction to female specific traits is inherently a form of mysogyny is in itself bigoted.
I have seen many game reviewers and game makers say they will stand up against conservatives, and that they will stand up against the oppression of minorities, I have yet to see many say they will oppose discrimination against the majority, or that they will fight against women such as Gloria Steinem who make feminists look bad.
In Dragon Age I had the ability to alter my Female Character's face and choose her sexuality. But I could not choose her Breast Size. Why? Because it is "sexist" for me to be attracted to gender specific traits? Because it demeans women for men to be monosexual instead of Bisexual? Because it is somehow degrading for us to be attracted to traits that aren't gender neutral? Being attracted to gender specific traits defines both heterosexuality and homosexuality, it defines monosexuality in general. The idea that attraction to gender neutral traits, such as eyes and skin and teeth is acceptable, but that attraction to gender specific traits is wrong, is inherently offensive to monosexuals, as it inherently implies that both heterosexuality and homosexuality are morally wrong.
For crying out loud, why does Square Enix keep reducing Lara Croft's and Tifa Lockhart's Breast sizes!?
/cry
EDIT: To be perfectly clear, I support gay rights, and women's rights. But it makes me angry to have game reviewers claim that it is a crime against women for men to be attracted to traits specific to women's bodies. Quite frankly, there seems to be a large number of reviewers advocating the idea that male heterosexuality is inherently a crime, and a significant number of developers who are caving into them. For some reason, these people think that being attracted to gender neutral traits is perfectly fine...but that being attracted to gender specific traits is inherently sexist. This is ultimately offensive to heterosexuals and homosexuals, as attraction to gender specific traits is what defines both.
JediMB said:
Really, let's be honest:
"The only reason MaleShep can't be gay is because they don't want to risk scaring off the stereotypically homophobic Halo crowd."
Your words, on the second page of comments
So I leave it upto the good judgement of the rest of the escapist if my 4th point is a strawman, that such a statement may well be a hypothesis to be considered, but not taken as a valid point of comdemnation.
I can't make my point clearer than it is, it is more logicaly consistant to believe that Bioware's narrative desicion on the sexuality of the character they envisaged and created was not beholdend to outside influence.
Look at the statement this thread is a result of, a firm conviction that Bioware is operating as normal
(full expresion of the spectrum of sexuality is not a new idea, Bioware is about the only ones attempting to master it maybe not in everygame still I see no issue with ommision in what is only 2 games)
we do what we want, they don't care they are not going to back down, for the acceptance of a bigoted crowd with no other argument than
"you simply can't..why not..because you can't"
"oh but we can and will continue to do so"
That as much as I have left to say on the matter
There's a thread over at the social.bioware forums about how to mod your games to get that to work. Apparantly there's a gender flag that pops up during ONE conversation making those options unavailable in the actual game, but if you change your character's gender, have that conversation, then switch back, you'll be able to engage in those pairings. The thread has links to programs that can be used to edit the savegame for both the PC AND the xbox 360. I can't remember the exact thread, but if you go to the forum and search for "savegame editor" or something along those lines, you'll find it.cocoro67 said: