Dragon Age Writer: Same-Sex Romance is Here to Stay

JediMB

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Straying Bullet said:
JediMB said:
Firstly: "Aka, hetrosexual". What? Also known as heterosexual?

Secondly: Heterosexual... except if Shepard is female, because then it's okay to be gay or bi. Just ask Liara, Samara or Kelly.

And just so you don't bring up the gender issue for asari, I'll point out right away that...

1) Asari are not non-gendered. They are mono-gendered. They have one gender, and it's female.

2) Regardless of what the asari would consider themselves, gender-wise, they are female from a human's perspective... and Shepard is human.

And, finally...

1. Hetrosexual person is a person who engages/attracted to the opposite sex. Is this so hard, really?

2. Asari are like you said, mono-gendered. What humans think of them doesn't change the fact they have no gender, they merely have the appearence of one. So this is for me rather grey/hard situation but technically, not a female. Thus not a lesbian/bisexual act on the behalf of female Shep'

3. Nice mod but I see this as a bonus addition, not a serious contribution to what I have said.

The Male/Female shepard is guided towards a more Hetrosexual approach. There is no open Bromance or ghey-bashing like with the Elf in DA:O. Or actual lesbian romance/action taking place. Sure, they can flirt but we never know if Female Shep would actually date the Asari Justicar.

Either way, it's what I THINK and picked up from the game, I never will know BioWare's twisted minds.
1) You misunderstand. That was a comment on your nonsensical use of the abbreviation "a.k.a.". I was trying to be subtle about it, but I assume it's a problem with the English language on your part.

2) A human female views an asari as female, and as such it is from her perspective a homosexual relationship. The asari, whose attraction to others is not based on physical gender, simply views it as "a relationship". Shepard would be lesbian/bi, but the asari would simply be asari.

3) That's actual Shepard/Kaidan romance content that was created by BioWare and left within the game's files, although it remained unused.

4) A female Shepard is perfectly capable of telling Samara that she desires either a relationship or casual sex. Both options are there.
 

jamesworkshop

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Burck said:
PedroSteckecilo said:
And here I was worried that Bioware was caving under the pressure of being part of a big studio who might want to avoid "real controversy" in their best selling games. I'm glad that Bioware has proven me wrong on that count, very glad indeed.

Keep on with the Socially Progressive Gaming guys!
Indeed, its great to see games catching-up with (and possibly furthering!) social movements.

We need to see more of this progression. <3's out to Bioware-

But what's up with the difference between Dragon Age and Mass Effect? Why weren't there a(ny) same-sex relationship(s) in ME2 when there was (albeit only one) in ME1?

In the article posted here (on the Escapist) BioWare Explains Why There's No Homosexuality in Mass Effect 2 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/99710-BioWare-Explains-Why-Theres-No-Homosexuality-in-Mass-Effect-2], Ray Muzyka and Casey Hudson of Bioware commented on why this had been removed. Hudson explained, "We still view [Mass Effect] as... if you're picturing a PG-13 action movie," he said. "That's how we're trying to design it. So that's why the love interest is relatively light." However, this strikes me as odd. Was this the original vision for the Mass Effect series or was it shaped by its popularity, especially after the fiasco in which one branch of Fox News slandered it as a "porn simulator".

Muzyka further identified this action as a way of designing the story, explaining, "Sometimes, in some of our games, we are going to have a defined character with a more defined view. Almost like a third-person narrative -- where Mass Effect is more in that vein, Dragon Age isn't in that vein ... For some other franchises we've had more defined characters and sort of approaches to things, and they've had a more defined personality and a more defined approach to the way they've proceed through the game and the world."

The way Muzyka talks about who defines the character, it appears that, at least for Mass Effect, Bioware does not want Shepard as a homosexual character while in Dragon Age, a homosexual character may result via the choice of the player, not Bioware.

It seems that with Mass Effect, Bioware put too many eggs in one basket. When they came under fire for the (brief) sexual content in ME1, they may have brought too much negative attention onto the series, and feared to face a second controversy that might use the first controversy as a quasi-precedent for the pressuring of Bioware.

While I'm happy to see Bioware keep Dragon Age as a socially liberal series, I'm curious about how they will handle matters of homosexual protagonists under pressure on their current and future games. Luckily, outright journalistic and activist antagonism against homosexuality is regarded as an extremist act in the United States (i.e. The Westboro Baptist Church), so they have only to fear a focused, but small protest.

However, (and I realize while this may nullify my concerns, it is still important that the matter be discussed!) as the crew from the Extra Credits weekly show has discussed, not all games need to explore issues of homosexuality or other social matters. But it still concerns me that Mass Effect took effort to change its image, possibly out of fear.

Maybe Mass Effect is telling of enough social issues already, however. The matters of xenophobia versus compassion across species despite past conflict does make an important analogy to present (and tightly-knit) issues of racism and xenophobia. Maybe homosexuality would be better served in another game where it could receive its own attention and discussion.

(In an uncertain world, let a strong thesis be your guide.)
I think people are missing the point Bioware does not see it as a problem or a social issue we have gay character or anything else because we write the characters in the games we make.

Nobody notices or cares that you can spend the entire game not wearing anything in DA:O
(BTW the grey warden ritual is hillarious when you steal everybodys clothes)

ME was done and sold way before Fox news got hold of it, the decisions had already been made.

I really can't see the links people are making especially after DA:O same company, same publisher, risk of new IP and yet made the most comprehensive PC possible because it was a function of a totally ground up player agency designed character.
Having a fully voiced character involves more than just script readings

It remindes me or something, ask a 50's republican if they would vote for a second rate hollywood actor that's been divorced as the president

they haven't met Reagan yet
 

Jaded Scribe

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I'm so happy to see this, and so glad BioWare recognizes that these relationships are optional, so the nay-sayers haven't a leg to stand on.
 

Screamarie

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I believe that I'm getting this game for Christmas and I'm SO happy to hear this. Yay! Equality! Gotta love Bioware.
 

ZiggyE

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Leliana was my favourite character in DA:O (infact, my favourite character in any Bioware game to date), and she was bisexual. Felt good coz I could romance her in both my playthroughs as male and female :) So go Bioware, for including same sex relationships.

Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to do any relationship in this game as I feel I'd be betraying my beloved Leliana.
 

jamesworkshop

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Zachary Amaranth said:
jamesworkshop said:
And excatly where is this flak coming from.
Probably the same people who thought Mass Effect was a virtual lesbian sex simulator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKzF173GqTU

nothing about lesbians

Look at it like this if you're going to get flak then you might as well give them something to cry about.

they have relationships and sex in their games because they write stories first
 

The Forces of Chaos

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So dose this mean Mass Effect and Dragon Age are heading towards the Dating simulator or Hentai games? Not that i would object to it but when ever people say "more romance option" it seems people want to turn the game from action RPG to another type of game. I would prefer a more believable relationship then one just stuck in at random just because of fanboyism demand.
This is purely from a quality point of view.
 

Burck

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jamesworkshop said:
Burck said:
1)I think people are missing the point Bioware does not see it as a problem or a social issue we have gay character or anything else because we write the characters in the games we make.

2) ME was done and sold way before Fox news got hold of it, the decisions had already been made.

3) I really can't see the links people are making especially after DA:O same company, same publisher, risk of new IP and yet made the most comprehensive PC possible because it was a function of a totally ground up player agency designed character.
Having a fully voiced character involves more than just script readings

4) Nobody notices or cares that you can spend the entire game not wearing anything in DA:O
(BTW the grey warden ritual is hillarious when you steal everybodys clothes)
*Enumerations edited in.

The first and second issues are connected. The fact that the protest and the following flak came after release gave a reason for Bioware to not change the aspects of the game that had been released (ME1) because it would change the romantic sub-plot too much, but Bioware could still change their plans regarding the romantic sub-plot in ME2 which hadn't been finished yet. Surely, the negative attention brought onto ME1 fueled vigilance in the niche of people against this kind of sexuality in games.

While the stylistic change in the "sex scenes" in ME2 (from obscured nudity to clear not-even-ludity) reflect this change to Hudson's "PG-13 Action Movie" vision, I don't quite see how removing homosexuality isn't. And removing such the option from the game seems odd: while the player can make the character, the developer dictates what options the player has. Once again though, this is not necessarily an act against homosexuality, but perhaps merely an abstention for the rest of the series or perhaps just until Mass Effect 3 (I've heard nothing regarding this yet).

In regards to the third point, yes, a fully voiced character does mean that either the voice actor must take extra lengths to act a role foreign to him/herself or that the script writers must mold the character to fit the voice actor. But ME2 had the same voice actors for Shepard, so what changed?

That's really what I'm wondering. I'm trying to convince myself of a reason, hence these long posts.

In regards to the fourth argument, sexuality and nudity are not treated the same in the United States. The U.S. public is generally much more comfortable with nudity than homosexuality.

But it certainly is funny to steal clothes for the Grey Warden scene. It reminded me of this comic. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/6831-Stolen-Pixels-147-Naked-Greed] :D
 

Dorian6

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And now I will be a fan of Bioware until the day I die.

They make great games, and they're willing to say "look, homosexuality is a thing that's not going away. These are real people, and they deserve representation. We are going to write a story that we think is good, and if you don't want to have in-game sex with a dude, don't say yes when the elf asks if you wanna bang."
 

jamesworkshop

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Burck said:
jamesworkshop said:
Burck said:
1)I think people are missing the point Bioware does not see it as a problem or a social issue we have gay character or anything else because we write the characters in the games we make.

2) ME was done and sold way before Fox news got hold of it, the decisions had already been made.

3) I really can't see the links people are making especially after DA:O same company, same publisher, risk of new IP and yet made the most comprehensive PC possible because it was a function of a totally ground up player agency designed character.
Having a fully voiced character involves more than just script readings

4) Nobody notices or cares that you can spend the entire game not wearing anything in DA:O
(BTW the grey warden ritual is hillarious when you steal everybodys clothes)
*Enumerations edited in.

The first and second issues are connected. The fact that the protest and the following flak came after release gave a reason for Bioware to not change the aspects of the game that had been released (ME1) because it would change the romantic sub-plot too much, but Bioware could still change their plans regarding the romantic sub-plot in ME2 which hadn't been finished yet. Surely, the negative attention brought onto ME1 fueled vigilance in the niche of people against this kind of sexuality in games.

While the stylistic change in the "sex scenes" in ME2 (from obscured nudity to clear not-even-ludity) reflect this change to Hudson's "PG-13 Action Movie" vision, I don't quite see how removing homosexuality isn't. And removing such the option from the game seems odd: while the player can make the character, the developer dictates what options the player has. Once again though, this is not necessarily an act against homosexuality, but perhaps merely an abstention for the rest of the series or perhaps just until Mass Effect 3 (I've heard nothing regarding this yet).

In regards to the third point, yes, a fully voiced character does mean that either the voice actor must take extra lengths to act a role foreign to him/herself or that the script writers must mold the character to fit the voice actor. But ME2 had the same voice actors for Shepard, so what changed?

That's really what I'm wondering. I'm trying to convince myself of a reason, hence these long posts.

In regards to the fourth argument, sexuality and nudity are not treated the same in the United States. The U.S. public is generally much more comfortable with nudity than homosexuality.

But it certainly is funny to steal clothes for the Grey Warden scene. It reminded me of this comic. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/6831-Stolen-Pixels-147-Naked-Greed] :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKzF173GqTU
Mentions nothing about homosexuality

I think people are making more of a fuss than warrented, they could change but they didn't because the original point still stands i'm not seeing anything to convice me that bioware are cowards when literally everything else even this news story contradicts.
Why would it change in ME2 if the reason was they decided that Shepard was not gay, no protest used orientation because their was no gay Shepard to complain about.

I wish people wouldn't resign themselves to things, America will only be non-accepting of homosexuals if everyone keeps say that they will.

Would Republicans vote for president a second rate hollywood actor thats been divorced, they had not met Ronald Reagan before, Won't have a black president and if we do someone will take the brother down (they did, and they didn't (so far) they hadn't met Obama before.
Will never have a non-christian president Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Andrew Johnson
didn't believe in God.

what i'm saying mainly is why is this such a talking point Shepard can't be non-human or run around half nakked (just as left out in the cold by not being included) it's doesn't require paranoid horrorshow nonsence about censorship when its how they envisage the character.

Abbsence of evidence is not evidence of abbsence.
 

RobfromtheGulag

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Forget Zevran -- how many guys are upset about being able to make a female character and have Leliana giggle at them when asked about sharing her bedroll?
 

Mikeyfell

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Aug 24, 2010
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alright Bioware
way to go
now release a patch for Mass Effect 2 that makes Tali bisexual
please
 

MoNKeyYy

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Jun 29, 2010
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I'm conflicted.

This is a complex issue that I'm not sure I understand.

And it's raising conflicting concerns from regional and nationalistic loyalties.

One side says yay, but the other says nay.

I mean, on the on hand they quoted a Canadian PM. On the other hand, it's Pierre Trudeu...