Dragonage The Veilguard - Tween RPG

[FakeSympathy]

I genuinely don't care if the companions are of different race, sexuality, and gender identity. As long as they are well-written

I mean in DA:O both Leliana and Zevran were bisexual, and they were really well-written characters. In DA: I, Dorian is Gay, Sera is Lesbian, and Iron Bull and Josephine are bi. Most of these characters I found to be really well-written. They have their own personal conflicts that you can help to resolve, and their character development depending on your choices are pretty damn good to watch as you progress through the game.

But I have to draw the line where the dialogs and characters are entirely built around being of different sexual orientations and gender identities.

I just feel like stuff like this being the only thing special about the characters is doing a huge disservice to the actual people of LGBTQ+ community. I have met a few of them, and all of them certainly bring fun personalities to the table. They don't build their entire identity around it, but rather as part of it.

DA: V seem to stop at a surface-level exploration, and quite stereotypical and condescending if you ask me. Is this really what being part of LGBTQ+ is about? How about a quest where they have to put down their former lovers who were brought back to life via necromancy? Or help them hunt down their former lovers who betrayed them?

Not to mention, would words like "non-binary" or "transgender" really exist in a fantasy world like this? If you are gonna write racism and hate, make it in-world friendly and part of the lore.

For example, in DA:O and 2, mages receive horrible treatment especially when they are apostates. They don't choose to be mages, but just are born with their powers. I actually felt really bad for mages who were tranquilized, but with the likes of Ulred or Orisino proves just how dangerous they can be if left unchecked. This is the type of representation of opression/segregation that I expected to see from dark fantasy, not this "did you just misgendered?!" crap.

 

[CriticalGaming]

@FakeSympathy i agree. I feel like people are defending this pigslop writing just because they have to defend the lbgt elements of it.

But take away the LBGT aspect and pretend they're talking about something else with that same writing and it is still terrible. The way it communicates to the player is like that of a middle school teacher presenting information easily and without metaphor so that literal children can understand it.

Except it is a M rated game. It is for adults. There doesn't have to be this stupid explanation for things. And everything doesn't have to be so literal as you said. It is a fantasy world so these emphasis on gender don't really fit. And a clever writer could have blended the same themes into a fantastical way in order to push the same ideas in a way that fit and doesn't scream "modern day bullshit" at us.

Veilguard's writing sucks all the way through because it is all presented in that same juevinelle way. While also at the same times removing the dark fantasy appeal the series used to have. Leaving a game with a very jarring tone and presentation that just stinks.

Veilguard isnt a bad game because it has heavy LBGT pandering. It is a bad game that just so happens to have that pandering, which unfortunately ruins a lot of criticism because chuds blame it the badness on the pandering when they shouldn't.

What is worse is that all the LBGT defenders will rush to this game's defense and prevent any reasonable discussion of the game being shit. Which really doesn't help the industry learn anything and only provides ammo to activism.

 

[BrawlMan]

What is worse is that all the LBGT defenders will rush to this game's defense and prevent any reasonable discussion of the game being shit.

I wouldn't go that far. There are plenty of those from the L-T community that can spot the difference between good and bad writing. You're always gonna have blind defenders on some angle or whatever politics, but most of them have it together. The worst you're gonna get as a vocal minority.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Yeah not all rpgs these days are like this game. BG3 is the obvious example but also Pathfinder 2 was incredible and it came out only a couple years ago. And recently there's been a game by the pathfinder people set in the 40k universe called Rogue Trader, which I also hear great things about, though I've yet to play it myself.

Honestly, I feel like we're living in kind of a golden age for story-focused CRPGs.

I don't think Dragon Age as a series was ever actually that good, but for a while around the early 2010s it was the high point because there just wasn't much else around, and a lot of what was around was bad and forgettable.

But we've had a whole bunch of really strong RPGs since then. I get that BG3 is kind of an impossible standard to hold other games to, but as you say, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is still amazing. We've had stuff like Disco Elysium which has really pushed the boundaries of what the genre can be. Go a few years further back and we had Tyranny, which was kind of a mess but also full of really interesting ideas. Heck, fucking Elden Ring has lore so deep you literally need to know dead languages to get the references.

I know absolutely nothing about Veilguard because I haven't felt any need to follow it. I feel like the genre has moved on from Joss Whedon dialogue and self-congratulatory references to swooping being bad.

I just feel like stuff like this being the only thing special about the characters is doing a huge disservice to the actual people of LGBTQ+ community. I have met a few of them, and all of them certainly bring fun personalities to the table. They don't build their entire identity around it, but rather as part of it.

I have to agree. The standard of representation has actually improved dramatically and frankly, this kind of stuff feels archaic, weird and borderline fetishistic.

 

[bluegate]

To my defense I didn't say anything about wokeness. This game is just plain bad without even worrying about that stuff.

Wasn't directed at you specifically, but at the grander discours as implied by posted videos and links.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Wasn't directed at you specifically, but at the grander discours as implied by posted videos and links.

Sadly it is bound to happen. Try not to pay it much attention. People do have a right to push back against content or themes they don't want in their games.

If the developers were more clever about the inclusion, these complaints would be far more minimal. You have to admit the dialog and pandering is pretty poorly done

 

[Terminal Blue]

If the developers were more clever about the inclusion, these complaints would be far more minimal. You have to admit the dialog and pandering is pretty poorly done

I'm pretty sure that's the point.

It's the standard woke brands grift. Rile up a bunch of thin-skinned lolcows who lack the self-awareness to realize they are the joke. Watch as the few surviving twitter libs who also lack the self-awareness to realize who owns the platform they're on eviscerate those cows in a desperate attempt to find someone to feel superior to. Congratulations, people now know your otherwise utterly forgettable game exists. Your masters degree in marketing communications was not a terrible waste of money.

The thing is, I don't think this actually works any more. Right wing youtube/tiktok has disappeared so far up its own grift-hole that noone pays any attention to it, and even if they did there just aren't enough insufferable liberals left on Twitter to generate much of a counter-response.

Maybe EA will adopt the Disney method and get a bunch of bots to post about how Veilguard gave them literally all the feels, but I'm not sure that's working either any more. The dead internet is real. The kind of people who are very online enough to do free marketing in their spare time have probably seen this kind of low-effort attempt at virality before.

As it is, I have seen nothing that convinces me that anyone is going to remember this game existed in a couple of months time, and again we just don't have to settle for that any more. There are a lot of really good CRPGs people could be playing instead.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

I'm pretty sure that's the point.

It's the standard woke brands grift. Rile up a bunch of thin-skinned lolcows who lack the self-awareness to realize they are the joke. Watch as the few surviving twitter libs who also lack the self-awareness to realize who owns the platform they're on eviscerate those cows in a desperate attempt to find someone to feel superior to. Congratulations, people now know your otherwise utterly forgettable game exists. Your masters degree in marketing communications was not a terrible waste of money.

The thing is, I don't think this actually works any more. Right wing youtube/tiktok has disappeared so far up its own grift-hole that noone pays any attention to it, and even if they did there just aren't enough insufferable liberals left on Twitter to generate much of a counter-response.

Maybe EA will adopt the Disney method and get a bunch of bots to post about how Veilguard gave them literally all the feels, but I'm not sure that's working either any more. The dead internet is real. The kind of people who are very online enough to do free marketing in their spare time have probably seen this kind of low-effort attempt at virality before.

As it is, I have seen nothing that convinces me that anyone is going to remember this game existed in a couple of months time, and again we just don't have to settle for that any more. There are a lot of really good CRPGs people could be playing instead.

You're alive! Am bad at compliments or anything positive, sorry, but is good to see you around again.

 

[CriticalGaming]

It's the standard woke brands grift. Rile up a bunch of thin-skinned lolcows who lack the self-awareness to realize they are the joke. Watch as the few surviving twitter libs who also lack the self-awareness to realize who owns the platform they're on eviscerate those cows in a desperate attempt to find someone to feel superior to. Congratulations, people now know your otherwise utterly forgettable game exists. Your masters degree in marketing communications was not a terrible waste of money.

You think they purposefully wrote bad "woke" dialog to rile up a hate mob of youtubers? In what world would that make good business sense?

This idea alone would imply that developers are purposefully making terrible content just to rub it in the face of the anti-woke sector of social media, meanwhile the silent majority simply don't buy the game and the lack of sales tanks the studio.

Wouldn't the better plan be to make quality content with clever and well made LBGT content that becomes hugely successful, and thus proving to everyone that those things belong in games? Instead you not only make a bad game, you also make bad examples of LBGT inclusion, as some sort of "gotcha" to the anti-woke youtube crowd.

Meh, I think it's more likely these writers are incompetent.

 

[Terminal Blue]

You think they purposefully wrote bad "woke" dialog to rile up a hate mob of youtubers?

Even when they were making supposedly good games, Bioware always had an extremely social-media-centric worldview which could, at times, be pretty cringe. A lot of the egregious fanservice in their games was made up of intentional references to the meme culture around them. That Bioware doesn't exist any more, all the people who made it what it was have gone and all that's left is EA wearing its skin, but I think EA still has a very particular concept, rooted in social media stereotypes, of who Dragon Age as a series is for and by extension who it isn't for, and I think with that idea comes a belief that setting those groups against each other will create drama and thus publicity. The problem is that both those demographics stopped being culturally relevant years ago.

So yes, it is incompetence. They actually do think they're being brave and groundbreaking, because their understanding of LGBT discourse is based on listening to a sad and mercifully dwindling bunch of cishet people on Twitter who think the frontline of the culture war is some middle aged dude complaining about pronouns in video games, rather than protecting trans people's right to legal recognition or access to healthcare.

 

[Dreiko]

Honestly, I feel like we're living in kind of a golden age for story-focused CRPGs.

I don't think Dragon Age as a series was ever actually that good, but for a while around the early 2010s it was the high point because there just wasn't much else around, and a lot of what was around was bad and forgettable.

But we've had a whole bunch of really strong RPGs since then. I get that BG3 is kind of an impossible standard to hold other games to, but as you say, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is still amazing. We've had stuff like Disco Elysium which has really pushed the boundaries of what the genre can be. Go a few years further back and we had Tyranny, which was kind of a mess but also full of really interesting ideas. Heck, fucking Elden Ring has lore so deep you literally need to know dead languages to get the references.

I know absolutely nothing about Veilguard because I haven't felt any need to follow it. I feel like the genre has moved on from Joss Whedon dialogue and self-congratulatory references to swooping being bad.

You're most likely right. Back in the time of Origins I wasn't much into Crpgs outside of fallout 2 because most of them did the real time with pause thing which I really hated back then, but nowadays more and more of them embrace being fully turn based, which as a Jrpg fan primarily is instantly fun for me.


I will say though, I did really love Origins back then, and it wasn't even a Crpg for me cause I played it on ps3 which lacked the isometric view. It felt like FFXII to me due to the programmable behaviors and autoattack. But I just loved the setting and choices and all the cool characters. I must have replayed it the most out of every game besides legend of dragoon.





The first such game I played in recent times that reinvigorated my interest was Divinity OS 2. Which makes sense would be great cause the same dev would go on to make BG3. But yeah after that one I was hooked. And honestly I may like the main plot in Pathwalker WotR more than BG3 because of all the supernatural beings you can end up becoming. My golden dragon playthrough was so damn satisfying.

I genuinely don't care if the companions are of different race, sexuality, and gender identity. As long as they are well-written

I mean in DA:O both Leliana and Zevran were bisexual, and they were really well-written characters. In DA: I, Dorian is Gay, Sera is Lesbian, and Iron Bull and Josephine are bi. Most of these characters I found to be really well-written. They have their own personal conflicts that you can help to resolve, and their character development depending on your choices are pretty damn good to watch as you progress through the game.

But I have to draw the line where the dialogs and characters are entirely built around being of different sexual orientations and gender identities.

I just feel like stuff like this being the only thing special about the characters is doing a huge disservice to the actual people of LGBTQ+ community. I have met a few of them, and all of them certainly bring fun personalities to the table. They don't build their entire identity around it, but rather as part of it.

DA: V seem to stop at a surface-level exploration, and quite stereotypical and condescending if you ask me. Is this really what being part of LGBTQ+ is about? How about a quest where they have to put down their former lovers who were brought back to life via necromancy? Or help them hunt down their former lovers who betrayed them?

Not to mention, would words like "non-binary" or "transgender" really exist in a fantasy world like this? If you are gonna write racism and hate, make it in-world friendly and part of the lore.

For example, in DA:O and 2, mages receive horrible treatment especially when they are apostates. They don't choose to be mages, but just are born with their powers. I actually felt really bad for mages who were tranquilized, but with the likes of Ulred or Orisino proves just how dangerous they can be if left unchecked. This is the type of representation of opression/segregation that I expected to see from dark fantasy, not this "did you just misgendered?!" crap.

Yeah Sera was my fav char in Inquisition and while I was very sad you couldn't bone her I still loved her to bits. I think people are being a bit too focused on identities and use them as a replacement for personalities.

 

[FakeSympathy]

I'm also kinda surprised Bioware survived this long. Knowing EA I thought they were gonna axe Bioware after Anthem. Doesn't matter how much legacy a studio leaves, one or two fuck ups and EA axes them; Yet BW survived.

Maybe this game will be the end of Bioware?

 

[BrawlMan]

Maybe this game will be the end of Bioware?

I honestly stopped caring about their fate years ago. Nothing against BioWare, but none of the same people are even there anymore. I doubt it personally but I wouldn't be surprised if it finally happens. Then what? We're all gonna move on and not really pay much mind in either scenario. Especially when there's a whole ocean full of CRPGs out there that have already surpassed the franchise and does a much better job.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

All of that sounds like a game I'd absolutely hate to play.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Maybe this game will be the end of Bioware?

Bioware ended a while ago. All that's left is a husk that EA parades around and says "remember when they made good games? This one might be good too; gib moniez plz".