Draw Harley Quinn Naked, Killing Herself, To Win DC Artist Contest

[Paradoxrifts]

You'll have to get a soapbox and a megaphone sweetie. Because I can't hear you over all the schlicking, and I certainly can't see you over all these lady boners.

If you're finished with your nonsense, I'm still waiting for you to prove your statement -- or indeed provide any evidence at all.

Like I said earlier, it is self-evident. There would be no great feminist outcry over this contest if it were about a man. You can add onto that certainty that if it weren't for the feminist angle then Escapist wouldn't have found it a newsworthy story, which would mean that we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

 

[siomasm]

Such is the internet, but everyone really seems to be arguing semantics. They could have specifically requested it for several reasons, least of all simply being a squeamishness or lack of creativity in some artists should they attempt to simply draw her with clothes on.

They may not necessarily be asking for TnA, they want to see how well you can capture the human form and perhaps further, sensibly censor some bits with only the tools at hand. She has to be nude, she doesn't have to be entirely exposed however. So I could see it as an opportunity to say... put a well placed rubber ducky and few soap suds in key locations that keep a rather grim situation both somewhat humerous and tasteful.



When people go bathing, they tend to be naked. When they commit suicide, I would suppose it varies. Thus emphasis on "She must be naked." but there was no demand for "Tits or gtfo".

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Ok, so I mean this is kind of stupid in general but if this were a male character, would anyone bat an eye at it at all? I mean the bathtub image is the only one remotely questionable, the rest of them are just goofy. And yeah, she's in the bath, she's probably going to be naked. They specified naked to clarify that she isn't dressed in her usual harley quinn getup.

Is it sexist? Debatably slightly, but hell, Harley Quinn as a character isn't very dignified in the first place. Her whole deal is being the sidekick to the man she's in an abusive relationship with. She's more of an anti role model than anything. Everything would be better for everyone, herself included, if she just left the joker, but she doesn't. As a reader/viewer, you're supposed to see that she's not making the right choices. Plus broken down to the simplest black and white way to evaluate her, she's a villain. You're not supposed to want to be like her.

In general Harley is much more conventionally sexist than being naked in a bath. Yes, in context it's portrayed as tragic, but honestly the character is a really easy target anyways if you want to make that claim. It's not like it's wonder woman or batgirl who are supposed to be strong and dignified.

 

[SinisterDeath]

And here's what you're missing:

It wouldn't be a sexualized thing if they didn't explicitly state Harley Quinn had to be -naked- in the 4th pannel. Right now it's a mixture of both "What? Why are they killing Harley Quinn?" and "What? Why does she have to be naked?!" along with a dose of "Why the hell are they even running this contest?!"

Again, if it were batman, or the joker, the outrage would be over it being the batman or the joker killing themselves. Not because they were nude, or sexualized.
The same should be true for Harley Quinn (up to a point, because she's just flipping insane..)

As for the naked thing.
Where do they say we have to see her naked?
They say she has to be naked, but that doesn't mean we have to see it.

How would you do this?
Show her costume draped on the floor next to the bathtub.
Showing a typical women in a bathtub scene without nudity.. Sexualized? Possibly, but that should be irrelevant.

And ask your self this.
What if they requested a picture, of the Joker swinging from a noose, a chair by his feet. And his pants down around his ankles?

Or Batman, naked under his cape, in an alley, with a gun to his head.

The point I'm making here is that nudity =/= sexualized. The joker case would definitely be sexualized (as it was a sexual act) but still not exactly something normal people would find sexy.

They don't want an image where she happens to be nude though. They want to *see* nudity. They want her exposed. They want to see skin. They want the artist to make it known she has no clothes on. Her nakedness isn't par for course like it would be expected in the bath. Her figure isn't mundane. They go out of their way to demand her body be seen.

While she's killing herself.

Again, consider these: "Draw for me a woman killing herself in the bath."
"Draw for me a woman killing herself in the bath. Make sure she's naked."

Guess which one is seedy.

Harley Quinn is always seen in her costume/s. Without it. Is she Harley Quinn? Why is she naked, and not in her costume? Could it be, perhaps there intent is that she is no longer Harley Quinn?

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

Look seriously? A singular person making a suggestion as one of the POSSIBLE picks in a drawing contest doesn't mean that the entirety of DC is sexist, come on people. It doesn't necessarily even mean that the person making the comment is sexist, you people are reading in way way too fucking much into something so small.

Yes it was badly phrased, but that's probably ALL IT WAS.

Starfires remodel means that everyone in DC is sexist.

 

[anthony87]

I was talking to my boyfriend about this. He pointed something out that someone had pointed out to him.

Why mention her being nude? If she's in the bath, that's expected, right? So why go out of your way to stress it?

They specifically make a point of requesting she be nude. Not just in the bath. Not bathing. Nude. Why? Because stressing that she be naked means the artists stress that she is naked. Her being visibly nude is part of the requirement. DC is going out of their way to ask that her body be exposed. While turning women into bodies to ogle is nothing new, doing it on top of the subject of suicide is profoundly tasteless.

It's not really sexist, but it is objectifying and objectionable. It's also really fucking dumb.

EDIT: If this is how DC wants to act, they can consider their logo an automatic deal breaker for me on any product. I'm not offended personally. I'm sickened by their tact.

......Boudica?

Boudica is that you?

Misquote? Or I don't get the joke lol.

Nah no joke. You just remind me a lot of someone who used to post around here, it's uncanny really.

Nice knee-jerk.

The irony....

 

[Hagi]

I realize it's a thrill to be offended, to feel that righteous anger for the wrongs that others do

On the contrary, I find these incidents depressing, and the arguments that inevitably spring up emotionally draining. They leave me feeling dejected and disgusted with humanity about 90% of the time.

Yet still you're here, jumping to conclusions that this contest might possibly result something sexist and offensive.

Why not just wait until the results? If it turns out innocent and the nudity used for non-sexual purposes then you've saved yourself both depression and the emotional drain. If it does turn out to be a vile sexualization of suicide then you'll still be depressed but not nearly as emotionally drained as there'll be a lot less arguments since you'll actually have some proof on your hands instead of merely assumptions.

There's absolutely no benefit to jumping the gun and becoming offended before something offensive has actually happened beyond righteous indignation. It's just simple self-destructive behavior if you're not even getting that out of it.

I'd take a look at yourself first before feeling dejected and disgusted by the rest of humanity.

 

[Bruce]

DC really has come to mean Dumb and Crappy since infinite crisis hasn't it?

Okay, "It's not necessarily sexy" and all of that, yeah sure. And I am sure every entry will be absolutely tasteful, particularly the winning one. Sure.

It is still a company asking artists to draw a beloved character in such a total broken state that she commits suicide.

Har. Har. Har.

You can argue that it isn't sexist, that isn't objectifying or anything like that, it is still the sort of mean spirited crap that serves as a mark of the people running DC being shitty people.

 

[anthony87]

I was talking to my boyfriend about this. He pointed something out that someone had pointed out to him.

Why mention her being nude? If she's in the bath, that's expected, right? So why go out of your way to stress it?

They specifically make a point of requesting she be nude. Not just in the bath. Not bathing. Nude. Why? Because stressing that she be naked means the artists stress that she is naked. Her being visibly nude is part of the requirement. DC is going out of their way to ask that her body be exposed. While turning women into bodies to ogle is nothing new, doing it on top of the subject of suicide is profoundly tasteless.

It's not really sexist, but it is objectifying and objectionable. It's also really fucking dumb.

EDIT: If this is how DC wants to act, they can consider their logo an automatic deal breaker for me on any product. I'm not offended personally. I'm sickened by their tact.

......Boudica?

Boudica is that you?

Misquote? Or I don't get the joke lol.

Nah no joke. You just remind me a lot of someone who used to post around here, it's uncanny really.

Nice knee-jerk.

The irony....

Stunning contribution to the thread and all, but anything else? Or is that it? You remind me of someone and stating that there is irony. Nice discussion >_>

Now now, I'm just thinking out loud. No reason to be snippy ^_^

Besides, it's less of a discussion and more people talking to each other about why they're right and others are wrong. Par for the course with these kinds of things really.

Regarding the topic anyway, I happen to think the outcry is partly due to poor wording on DC's part and partly due to people looking for something to be outraged at. Kinda like the whole Tomb Raider nonsense.

 

[Proverbial Jon]

I don't read comics but when I saw this headline I reacted with mild curiosity rather than disgust.

I already had the Looney Tunes style humour in my head before I read on because that's my understanding of Harley's character from other media.

Would this have met the same outrage if it had been the Joker's suicide? Besides gender, are his character and Harley Quinn's really so different that this act would feel out of place for one and not the other?

 

[Rawbeard]

DC is going Full Retard. Never go Full Retard.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Sometimes I wonder why I'm not up to date with the comic world. Then shitstorms like this happen and I remember.

I think I'll just watch this one from the sidelines and let this thread revolve around me.

 

[Mahoshonen]

It's not the sexism flag that bugs me, but the 'lol suicide' part. This shit is no joke and if DC wants to make light of it, then they can get fucked

 

[Darth_Payn]

Keep it classy, DiDio!

Seriously, someone fire him.

I may not be entirely clear on the DC entertainment hierarchy, but I thought DiDio and Jim Lee are CO-publishers, and Geoff Johns, a living example of the Promoted Fanboy trope, is Chief Creative Officer, which sounds like he outranks Publisher. If anyone has the power to fire DiDio, it sounds like Johns.

OT: Well, this is a fine way to start my Monday. Open up The Escapist and I read "Draw Harley Quinn Killing Herself & Naked, Get A Job at DC Comics!" I understand how people would be offended by that, what with how Harley changed when the Nu52 began, but I can see also it's TOTALLY in character for Quinn. Why? Because she's a MAD PERSON! Drawing humor from death and other dark subject matter is her and the Joker's shtick! Although, the Joker as seen in the Death of The Family crossover wasn't funny at all, just pure High Octane Nightmare Fuel. But with her Puddin' possibly pushing up daisies now, it looks like Harley doesn't have much reason to keep going. I will save my outrage for how this looks in an actual drawing, when it happens.