Draw Harley Quinn Naked, Killing Herself, To Win DC Artist Contest

[Rebel_Raven]

Naked men are sexualized unless they're unplesant to look at which is the same case for women. C'mon, all these commercials, TV shows, and movies where a guy's shirt gets removed? Ladies clubs with male strippers?

Not necessarily, I don't think Daniel Craig's torture scene in Casino Royal is supposed to be sexy, nor is Maggie Gyllenhaal's strip search scene in Strip Search.

While invariably someone will find it sexy, it doesn't necessary mean it was intended to be sexy or sexualized.

I prolly should've expanded on "unless they're unplesant to look at" with "unless they, or the situation is unplesant to look like," yes, you're right on that.
Still, do note that they're not looking for the results of her suicide attempts, they want her in the act of attempting it. That said the unplesant to look at factor does kinda go down from the actual results, especially a successful attempt.

That does sort of leave that stipulation that Harley has to be naked in the 4th pannel out there. Either it's going to be understood that she should be naked, or she's going to be in costume. Roughly 2/3 (her harlequin outfit, her revised look, and her nurse look) leave little to the imagination as far as her body shape goes. It's a similar result either way. It certainly leaves some morally ambiguos lee way allowing more modest artists to interpret the scene while more open/lewd/etc. artists to go their way.
Lets face it, Harley Quinn has decent odds to be dressed when she comnmmits suicide so she's more immediately recognizzed and it's the less sane thing to do, yes?

This could've been handled way better than it was, IMO.

 

[wulf3n]

I prolly should've expanded on "unless they're unplesant to look at" with "unless they, or the situation is unplesant to look like," yes, you're right on that.
Still, do note that they're not looking for the results of her suicide attempts, they want her in the act of attempting it. That said the unplesant to look at factor does kinda go down from the actual results, especially a successful attempt.

That does sort of leave that stipulation that Harley has to be naked in the 4th pannel out there. Either it's going to be understood that she should be naked, or she's going to be in costume. Roughly 2/3 (her harlequin outfit, her revised look, and her nurse look) leave little to the imagination as far as her body shape goes. It's a similar result either way. It certainly leaves some morally ambiguos lee way allowing more modest artists to interpret the scene while more open/lewd/etc. artists to go their way.
Lets face it, Harley Quinn has decent odds to be dressed when she comnmmits suicide so she's more immediately recognizzed and it's the less sane thing to do, yes?

This could've been handled way better than it was, IMO.

True and I wouldn't be surprised if they were going for sexy in their description given their reputation.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

I'm also surprised that no one has pointed out that the current comic that most features Harley Quinn is called Suicide Squad. Grr, controversy, grr.

That makes sense of this how?

Suicide Squads are named not because the people in them want to kill themselves, but because they are willing to accept missions that have a high chance of getting them killed.

People saying that Harley would be in character trying to kill herself aren't making a good argument.

For one, we are given no reason for why she wants to do it. This isn't like the short Mickey Mouse comic where we are told Mickey is suicidal because Minnie dumped him.

And we actually have a recent example of what Harley would do at "her lowest point".

Spoiler: Batman Arkham City spoilers!

First off, we all know Harley's whole life pretty much revolves around the Joker. And at the end of the game, he is dead.

In Arkham City, there's also a bit of an easter egg that suggests that she is pregnant with his kid. Later in the dlc we find out, along with Harley herself, that the test she took was wrong, and she is in fact not pregnant.

Her love dead, and then she finds out she isn't going to be having his kid. Good time for a suicide, right? WORNG!

Instead, she whips the last of joker's gang under her command, and goes after Batman one last time(for now at least).
If not for Robin coming in to save him, she might have actually killed him.

If just being crazy made you want to kill yourself, Batman would have a lot fewer villains to fight.

In the end, even if ya took out the nudity. This whole thing would still be in very bad taste, and I'd even go as far to say a misuse of a good character.
Especially sense they started it so close to suicide prevention week.
God I hope they just didn't realize how bad the timing was.

 

[Seydaman]

....No. That is not, at all, okay. Not even slightly.

Are people just this fucking retarded? Suicide has been done humorously (Or at least light heartedly) before, but come on, zero class here.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Yeah, blame society but get mad at the people who may not be a part of that society you hate. Think I wouldn't be disgusted if it were Batman, or Joker in the exact same spot as Harley killing themselves in the same 4 ways in a contest open to the public? You'd be wrong. 'm sure a lot of people would be proving you wrong.
Society's going to have to change to get rid of why you're angry at it. I don't really have much of a solution to this.

Here's the thing your missing though.

Because its Harley Quinn, and she is female. The outrage is that they are sexualizing a female committing suicide. The outrage is not because they are trying to kill Harley Quinn!
If this were batman, or the Joker. The outrage wouldn't be over sexualizing male suicide. it would be, because they were killing batman/joker!

And here's what you're missing:

It wouldn't be a sexualized thing if they didn't explicitly state Harley Quinn had to be -naked- in the 4th pannel. Right now it's a mixture of both "What? Why are they killing Harley Quinn?" and "What? Why does she have to be naked?!" along with a dose of "Why the hell are they even running this contest?!"

You're dismissing the possibility that a Naked Batman, or a Naked Joker committing suicide via bathtub electrocution would generate similar responses about sexualization, disgust at the situation, and so forth.

Lets not forget that this isn't an in house project here. They're getting the public in on it. Infact they're letting pretty much anyone that knows about it participate, and this isn't exactly a wholesome, innocent request.
Oh, and the fact that it's clearly implied they have to be naked.

The thing is, we don't know how replacing Harley Quinn with a popular DC character would work. I can't blame you for jumping to the worst case scenario as I often do the same (I.E. They'd NEVER do this with Joker, or batman, so we will never know what sort fo reaction would be garnered), but I feel we should keep in mind some of the better scenario cases, and look at things from other angles.

 

[wulf3n]

Spoiler: Batman Arkham City spoilers!

First off, we all know Harley's whole life pretty much revolves around the Joker. And at the end of the game, he is dead.

In Arkham City, there's also a bit of an easter egg that suggests that she is pregnant with his kid. Later in the dlc we find out, along with Harley herself, that the test she took was wrong, and she is in fact not pregnant.

Her love dead, and then she finds out she isn't going to be having his kid. Good time for a suicide, right? WORNG!

Instead, she whips the last of joker's gang under her command, and goes after Batman one last time(for now at least).
If not for Robin coming in to save him, she might have actually killed him.

If just being crazy made you want to kill yourself, Batman would have a lot fewer villains to fight.

Spoiler: Different Batman Arkham City spoilers!

Are you forgetting that she tries to blow herself and batman up so that she can be with joker. Her words not mine.

 

[LazyAza]

I'm a digital artist and a Harley Quinn fan and I could easily create an entry for this but I completely and utterly refuse. They could pay me to do it and I still wouldn't. This isn't dark humor this is completely horrible shock for shocks sake, a giant middle finger to Harley fans and comic readers. DC what the hell is going on with you lately, seems like every new decision you make is an awful one.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Spoiler: Batman Arkham City spoilers!

First off, we all know Harley's whole life pretty much revolves around the Joker. And at the end of the game, he is dead.

In Arkham City, there's also a bit of an easter egg that suggests that she is pregnant with his kid. Later in the dlc we find out, along with Harley herself, that the test she took was wrong, and she is in fact not pregnant.

Her love dead, and then she finds out she isn't going to be having his kid. Good time for a suicide, right? WORNG!

Instead, she whips the last of joker's gang under her command, and goes after Batman one last time(for now at least).
If not for Robin coming in to save him, she might have actually killed him.

If just being crazy made you want to kill yourself, Batman would have a lot fewer villains to fight.

Spoiler: Different Batman Arkham City spoilers!

Are you forgetting that she tries to blow herself and batman up so that she can be with joker. Her words not mine.

Very True.
Granted, that was her last resort. Her and Joker have both been shown before willing to kill themselves to seceded in killing Batman.

Spoiler: Arkham City spoilers!

Harley's reunion with Joker would just be icing on the victory cake. And still kind of fits with how her just killing herself is out of character. She would try to take Batman[sub](and maybe some more people)[/sub] with her.

 

[Seanfall]

I like Harley Quinn I like how dark and tragic her story is....I don't like it when DC abuses a character like her for publicity. DC has shown time and time again that it doesn't give a shit about it's characters in any regards expect for who gets money from marketing them. And that's what this is, publicity and I am so glad it is exploding in their faces. Maybe if they mentioned the fourth wall thing earlier people wouldn't have been so upset you could draw her looking at the reader 'Yeah this fuckwit is into this shit.' But they didn't they didn't mention it until after the shitstorm was in full swing. This is a continuation of the blatant misogyny shown by DC.

DC...women read comics a lot of them do. keep this up...and they won't be reading YOUR comics. That's half a market your alienating at least. And more of the other half who find this kind of shit...disturbing and wrong. I am not here to start an arguement so I won't be saying anything is fact, it's just that I personally find this...wrong. I personally find it to be them trying to sexualize or make light of Suicide. You can say that 'harley is crazy' all you want but does that really make it better? Does sexualizing the suicide of a mentally unstable person make any of this more palatable? I don't think it does.

Erm, the "4th wall breaking" was said from the start. The media sites that decided to report on it conveniently forgot to say that part. And no, they are anot alienating anyone but the people who love to be offended at everything. Other people will not give a shit and just continue to read the comics instead of trying really hard to see things that arent there and being offended about it.
And no, they are not sexualizing suicide. People that are in bathtubs, are usually naked. Do you know that?

Trying so hard to be offended at something and not even looking at the context of the story.... /sigh

The 4th wall breaking was mentioned on Twitter first as far as I know. it was not reported with the first script. Yes people get offended at stuff. Stuff that is offensive and meant to incense and anger. And those people who don't give a shit? Good for them, but I and many others aren't any of them. This things are there subtext matters. Yes I know people are naked there's not need to try to insult my intelligence. But they didn't need to draw attention to that point in the script, and you know what...SHE DOESN'T NEED TO BE KILLING HERSELF! I wouldn't have a problem with this if the Joker for instance had the rope that would be fine why? Cause the jokers fucked like that.

Yes I am looking at the context and Yes I am offended and no I didn't have to try. Stop assuming that...I don't know why i'm even making this post. As everything i've said is just going to be disregarded in favor of straw man arguments. And what story? the reporting of this event? The event itself? The event is to draw An attractive woman in various dangerous or suicidal situations. The first three I don't mind their almost comical it's the final one that gets me.

Wait, you just said you would be fine if it was Joker doing it? And im the one using straw man arguments?

And of course they have to mention that in the script. Do you even know how scripts work? Like, at all?

I said I'D be fine if Joker was doing it. Because that's the dynamic they set up. Because it would fit the Character I didn't say Harley would look happy during it, but it would fit. And yes I know how Scripts look here's the original post that DC Made from there site: http://www.dccomics.com/node/305151 do you see anythinga bout breaking the fourth wall? I don't. Only the descriptions we were given. Other people have brought up the naked and all I have to add is that well look at how sexualized women are in DC comics when they don't need to be. So chances are, that the most Cheese cake one is what's going to be picked, is it certain? No but given past examples it's a good chance.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

I'm also surprised that no one has pointed out that the current comic that most features Harley Quinn is called Suicide Squad. Grr, controversy, grr.

That makes sense of this how?

Suicide Squads are named not because the people in them want to kill themselves, but because they are willing to accept missions that have a high chance of getting them killed.

People saying that Harley would be in character trying to kill herself aren't making a good argument.

For one, we are given no reason for why she wants to do it. This isn't like the short Mickey Mouse comic where we are told Mickey is suicidal because Minnie dumped him.

And we actually have a recent example of what Harley would do at "her lowest point".

Spoiler: Batman Arkham City spoilers!

First off, we all know Harley's whole life pretty much revolves around the Joker. And at the end of the game, he is dead.

In Arkham City, there's also a bit of an easter egg that suggests that she is pregnant with his kid. Later in the dlc we find out, along with Harley herself, that the test she took was wrong, and she is in fact not pregnant.

Her love dead, and then she finds out she isn't going to be having his kid. Good time for a suicide, right? WORNG!

Instead, she whips the last of joker's gang under her command, and goes after Batman one last time(for now at least).
If not for Robin coming in to save him, she might have actually killed him.

If just being crazy made you want to kill yourself, Batman would have a lot fewer villains to fight.

In the end, even if ya took out the nudity. This whole thing would still be in very bad taste, and I'd even go as far to say a misuse of a good character.
Especially sense they started it so close to suicide prevention week.
God I hope they just didn't realize how bad the timing was.

Games, movies, and TV shows do not follow the comic book continuity. They are spin offs and not related to the actual continuity.

Arkham city uses the OLD joker. The OLD universe that was written out of existence. Its not a guide book for modern continuity, not a guide book for new 52.

This is the new 52. This is the joker that's been used a for a couple years now.

Spoiler: this is the new 52 joker

And everyone got a revamp, even going as far as personalities. So we can't bring in Arkham city as evidence, because DC hasn't really rolled out the new 52 into the main stream because people only remember the 1990s continuity.

Wasn't talking about comic continuity.(also Harley is from the TV show first, not the comics) More about how the character generally acts in situations.

But lets go with that for a bit.
All the characters are now different, and not really like what they use to be? Then aren't people still wrong in saying that killing herself is "in her character". Since they are using an old and outdated version of her?

 

[LordMonty]

Cool concept bad exicution. Nice idea to give a new artist a few wacky scenes to draw. But maybe a little tactless, could've said she was just sitting in a bath tub as people would assume nude 90% of the time and that sentance would've probally gotten past the bad press that is following.

But hey DC ain't marvel... Marvel have Disney to watch there ass

 

[Atmos Duality]

What's the matter DC? Did you finally run out of staff willing to go through with your pointless shock deaths?

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Spoiler: Full in here.

I swear the more I read into the internet's outrage the more I honestly think that the next moral movement will come from people who spent their whole life playing video games. Kinda like the same people who participated in the hippie movement goes full bore to enforce their new found morality upon others.

First off, Harley Quinn is not a real person. She is a character. Can we just get that straight? I'm really tired of the argument that fictional characters especially women should be treated as real life people and should be given the same rights and dignity as actual people. There is a reason it is called fiction in the first place that enables writers, artists and anyone else to use their imagination and think of impossible situations not bound by reality. So let's just realize that just cause a fictional character is put into a situation does reflect anything on real life people.

Second, in terms of canon can we just admit that Harley as a character is one messed up character and is intended to be as such? I mean being in an abusive relationship and being constantly manipulated doesn't exactly make a character sane. The whole point in the most terrible situations she puts on a smile and yet in the best situations she'll be sad.

Finally, as for the art. It's just art and still open to interpretation to the artist. Sure there are guidelines but one could certainly make a strong statement through said contest. So even if you disagree with the premise a good artist could easily meet the criteria and also by making their own interpretation could certainly show the criteria but have the viewer interpret as against suicide.

The only people who should feel bad right now are those who feel as if their opinion is some sort of moral fact because the last thing people need is someone enforcing their morality upon others. Also, given the guidelines and the requirement that said bathtub requires water you could easily have Harley be "naked" and just have the water cover up her entire body with the exception of her shoulders and head. The guidelines didn't say of having to explicitly show her breasts or vagina.

A few things.

First off, Harley Quinn is not a real person. She is a character. Can we just get that straight?

Who said she was real?

I'm really tired of the argument that fictional characters especially women should be treated as real life people and should be given the same rights and dignity as actual people.

Again, I don't think anyone is calling for "equal rights" for fake people.
Also, why can we "especially" not treat fake women better?

Second, in terms of canon can we just admit that Harley as a character is one messed up character and is intended to be as such? I mean being in an abusive relationship and being constantly manipulated doesn't exactly make a character sane. The whole point in the most terrible situations she puts on a smile and yet in the best situations she'll be sad.

Messed up? Yes. Suicidal? Not really.

The only people who should feel bad right now are those who feel as if their opinion is some sort of moral fact because the last thing people need is someone enforcing their morality upon others.

You mean like what you said about fictional characters? Or even that very sentence above?

Look. Here's why I don't like this whole idea;

1. The way they're going about this is kind of making light of suicide, with no context as to why she is committing it.
2. They are doing such a thing at about the worst time they could have picked(right before Suicide Prevention week).
3. I like the Character, and don't appreciate how they are using her, symbolically.

Do I think fictional characters should be treated like real people? No more than I think businesses should be treated like people[sub](the answer is no, not at all)[/sub]

Do I think they can show more respect to a character who is important to a lot of people, and an issue that affects probably even more people? Yes. Yes indeed.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

I'm also surprised that no one has pointed out that the current comic that most features Harley Quinn is called Suicide Squad. Grr, controversy, grr.

That makes sense of this how?

Suicide Squads are named not because the people in them want to kill themselves, but because they are willing to accept missions that have a high chance of getting them killed.

People saying that Harley would be in character trying to kill herself aren't making a good argument.

For one, we are given no reason for why she wants to do it. This isn't like the short Mickey Mouse comic where we are told Mickey is suicidal because Minnie dumped him.

And we actually have a recent example of what Harley would do at "her lowest point".

Spoiler: Batman Arkham City spoilers!

First off, we all know Harley's whole life pretty much revolves around the Joker. And at the end of the game, he is dead.

In Arkham City, there's also a bit of an easter egg that suggests that she is pregnant with his kid. Later in the dlc we find out, along with Harley herself, that the test she took was wrong, and she is in fact not pregnant.

Her love dead, and then she finds out she isn't going to be having his kid. Good time for a suicide, right? WORNG!

Instead, she whips the last of joker's gang under her command, and goes after Batman one last time(for now at least).
If not for Robin coming in to save him, she might have actually killed him.

If just being crazy made you want to kill yourself, Batman would have a lot fewer villains to fight.

In the end, even if ya took out the nudity. This whole thing would still be in very bad taste, and I'd even go as far to say a misuse of a good character.
Especially sense they started it so close to suicide prevention week.
God I hope they just didn't realize how bad the timing was.

Games, movies, and TV shows do not follow the comic book continuity. They are spin offs and not related to the actual continuity.

Arkham city uses the OLD joker. The OLD universe that was written out of existence. Its not a guide book for modern continuity, not a guide book for new 52.

This is the new 52. This is the joker that's been used a for a couple years now.

Spoiler: this is the new 52 joker

And everyone got a revamp, even going as far as personalities. So we can't bring in Arkham city as evidence, because DC hasn't really rolled out the new 52 into the main stream because people only remember the 1990s continuity.

Wasn't talking about comic continuity.(also Harley is from the TV show first, not the comics) More about how the character generally acts in situations.

But lets go with that for a bit.
All the characters are now different, and not really like what they use to be? Then aren't people still wrong in saying that killing herself is "in her character". Since they are using an old and outdated version of her?

Halrey from the kids show, to the game, and comics are all different. It doesn't matter if she is from a TV show, the comics are way different. Its the reason Mr. Freeze is a joke in the 60s TV show but got more serious in the comics.

We can't expect the kid show Harley to kill herself because the joker ripped his face off. Its a kids show.

We can't use Arkham to show who she is, because the new 52 revamped and changed everything. Its old continuity.

The new 52 Harley sets her own identity, and that identity just so happened to be suicidal. Since this is a comic we are talking about, other media sources are irrelevant. You can't say "comic continuity doesn't matter to the comics."

And yes, if they use Arkham city they are still technically wrong for using non canon sources.

I wasn't saying each next version is exactly like the last, but indeed. They do get very different from time to time.

That said, I still think it's not unreasonable to say that some aspects can still carry over.
Like the Joker using "humor" in his crimes, and Batman being a bit bummed about his parents being killed in front of him.

I think some of the issue is that we aren't given any context about why Harley wants to die.
Everyone wants to die at some point, but they didn't really give us a reason this time.
Then again, I guess to do that they would have to make the comic bit longer.