DRM Systems and the Publishers Who Love Them

Triangulon

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Personally I do like steam. I know it has problems, particularly with the offline mode, however it it the best of a bad bunch. As far as other games with particularly restrictive DRM go I don't buy them anymore. I think the last one I bought was Spore (totally not worth it). I seem to be getting more and more resistant to big-name titles. I had a look the other day and the list of games I expected to get that I haven't (for various reasons) is quite big (Borderlands, Mass Effect 2, Bioshock 2, Modern Warfare 2, L4D 2 etc). Assassins Creed 2 will certainly join that list, although I'm too busy with STO and my umpteenth Dragon Age playthrough...
 

Lord_Gremlin

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I really like Steam to the point I only buy steam games for PC. It's not that much of DRM but it's a vital service - it automatically updates game and repairs game files when they're damaged (!!!). Also, it allows you to play on any PC anywhere anytime as long as internet is OK. And with it's community functions (especially groups) you can find people to play with in your favorite MP.

Don't compare Steam with Ubisoft's shit. Steam IS a service. A very useful service for PC games. Ubisoft's DRM is not a service. It's a fraud.
If I will ever want AC2 I'll buy it for PS3. Preferably GOTY version.
 

Doug

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ItsAPaul said:
I don't see why registering a game is so bad, but I do agree that Ubisoft's DRM won't work. They're paying out of pocket to turn people into pirates.
Registering I don't care about if its optional, and/or if I get extra goodies for doing so (see Dragon Age for a good example, Mass Effect 2 for a not so good example (Damn armour hides his face!)).

But Ubisoft's system is, frankly, a kick to the testicles/vagina (delete as appropiate). If my modem decides to break, I can't play the game anymore - hell, I can't even finish what I'm doing an save - it'll kick out straight away.
 

Doug

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Treblaine said:
Hmm, I can't tell if you're joking but it bears exploring the economics of whether the publishers as really trying to "destroy the PC market" with restrictive DRM because for almost any business that seems counter-intuitive and schizophrenic but publishers like all companies are aggregates of people working together as one "intelligence" only each element is not entirely honest to each other... which is very much like schizophrenia.
Honestly? I would think gaming companies are trying to kill of the PC market...BUT... it doesn't make sense.

If you REALLY don't care about the PC market, why have the expense of porting it from the console in the first place? Just say "XBox360, PS3 (and Wii if it'll handle it) only". Its cheaper and if people really want it, they'll have to buy it on whichever console.
 

Onyx Oblivion

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Sep 9, 2008
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One day...handheld gaming systems will have DRM.

You will need to activate your DS3 games.
 

Treblaine

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asiepshtain said:
ps. To all of you out there who don't steal games, thank you from me and from all the developers. Sadly, knowing the usuall PC crowd, there are too few of us.

EDIT: The final step in DRM will be this: you pirate a game, the game company sees and informs local police officers. Who come to your house and arrest your stealing, stupid, criminal ass. You then go to jail where you fucking belong, you fucking thief.
What's that? Punish those who ACTUALLY PIRATE the game? Whoa, calm down there buddy, radical thinking like that might make the head of some pencil pusher in Ubisoft office literally explode at the concept of such common-sense justice! No clearly their strategy is to punish the loyal customers.

I can just imagine a Ubisoft publishing CEO at a games store (of course with a ridiculous french accen't):

Monsieur Pen: "oouuur, yoo naugh good sauun of a peeeig. I cee you are trying to heartlessly VIOLATE zeh "Peh Ceh" verzion of ourrr bell game de la France for your dirty English pirate desires!"

Sane Frenchman: "but if I am going to pirate this game... why am I paying money for it? And why are we speaking english when we are both French?"

Monsieur Pen: "Haw haw haw, ma petit garcon, yoo whill naught tRRick moi wiff you Logique Fantastique. Tu es un Peh Ceh gameRRR, zerh is a lot of piracy on le PC, zerfooour, all gamers on PC are le pirate and deserve all that you get"

Sane Frenchman: "But that is insane, that will not inhibit piracy at all. If you want to punish PC gamers why don't you never release it in PC?"

Monsieur Pen: "Zerh are FARRR worse things to do than not release it, far better to release a hoRRRibly crippled verzion to torture the Peh Ceh gamers with the dilemma of ignoring le game or get le game and WHORE out their computer pour le rootkits."

But Seriously, I wouldn't say most PC gamers are pirates... or at least no more than most movie fans are pirates or most music enthusiasts are pirates.

I mean Casino Royale was HUGELY pirated but do all new Blu-rays have to "phone home" constantly? Of course not, it mean what ubisoft is planning is not DRM. DRM is something like a couple encrypted files, this is deliberate market sabotage. Why? Maybe to justify to shareholder them pulling out of the PC market. Or maybe they are just as retarded as my fictional Monsieur Pen example.

The thing is Assassin's Creed and most ubisoft games are not like other franchises, they aren't THAT good and really I could just do with skipping them.
 

Hurr Durr Derp

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As I said in a previous topic: Frogs, meet slowly boiling water.

We're the frogs, and the increasingly restrictive DRM is the boiling water. People will buy these games anyway because they're cool games regardless of DRM (be realistic, the average customer doesn't care enough about DRM to not buy a game that has it, if they care at all), and while minor victories might be won here and there, they do nothing to slow down the rise of DRM in the long run. Every next step seems like an insignificant one, because whenever someone does make a significant step (like Ubisoft is doing now) they get a bunch of consumer backlash. But before long the exact same thing is considered normal and we're all ready to grudgingly accept the next little step. Just think back a few years and it's easy to see what an enormous impact all these little steps have had when added up.

And apart from hindering paying customers, have these measures had any effect? Nope, piracy is going stronger than ever in spite (or perhaps because) of increasingly restrictive DRM. So, as said many times before by myself and others, what we've got is a system that treats customers like criminals and allows the actual criminals to merrily continue their business. Great job, guys.
 

Denamic

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Reminds me of when my copy of Fallout 3 refused to run because of some 'conflict' with a virtual drive software, even after I uninstalled it.
I was literally forced to illegally crack a game I owned to even play it at all.

Nowadays, I just crack everything, because when the protection doesn't prevent me from playing at all, it randomly crashes other games, or causes extreme 'loading times' when I launch a game of up to 2-3 minutes when the copy protection is verifying the disc.

Not to mention the disc swapping.
It fucking sucks.
 

alexelric

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There is a reason PC piracy is a huge thing that cannot be killed off: allows players to skip DRM. ever since the floppy disk era I remmember modding communities that removed the "insert code that comes in the manual"from the games. After that, it was the patches that allowed you to play without disk verification. Hell, even secuROM got hacked and turned into a (even more) useless piece of malware.

Online activation is a good concept (within reason, Steam at least offer something in return). I rarely use PC for gaming but I tend to go towards games without intrusive DRM, or patch it myself in case it has it, why? because I just want to play.

Ubisoft idea is stupid, a minor connection glitch (that can happen to ANYONE, even if you have a top connection) and you are screwed. Not to mention people like me who has a poor internet system that coughs up every hour or so. What about people WITHOUT internet access (as alien that sounds nowadays) or that cannot be logged in 24/7?

Eventually someone will break the DRM and the the game will be pirated to no end just because IT HAD A DRM THAT DROVE OFF PLAYERS FROM BUYING IT. Why publishers don't see this?
 

matrix3509

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Denamic said:
Reminds me of when my copy of Fallout 3 refused to run because of some 'conflict' with a virtual drive software, even after I uninstalled it.
I was literally forced to illegally crack a game I owned to even play it at all.

Nowadays, I just crack everything, because when the protection doesn't prevent me from playing at all, it randomly crashes other games, or causes extreme 'loading times' when I launch a game of up to 2-3 minutes when the copy protection is verifying the disc.

Not to mention the disc swapping.
It fucking sucks.
That exact thing happened to my copy of Fallout 3. The disk fucked up, I downloaded a no CD crack, and now none of my mods work.
 

TitsMcGee1804

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acturisme said:
TitsMcGee1804 said:
but has anyone ever honestly had to install a game more than 5 times on 5 different computers?
To answer your last question, yes. I was using the game to test different configurations of pc components with Quake 3 Arena.
fair enough, but I highly doubt that the average gamer is going to be needing to do that, thats no disrespect to you but you dont represent the average gamer, maybe like 0.001% of people buying the game, its not enough to sway me

Im not saying that there should be a limit on installs, just that its never been a problem to me, and it does convince me not to go giving away my games to my friends, if i know im going to lose an activation

Im saying that if i have bought a game legit, for the most part DRM hasnt got in the way
 

Denamic

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matrix3509 said:
Denamic said:
Reminds me of when my copy of Fallout 3 refused to run because of some 'conflict' with a virtual drive software, even after I uninstalled it.
I was literally forced to illegally crack a game I owned to even play it at all.

Nowadays, I just crack everything, because when the protection doesn't prevent me from playing at all, it randomly crashes other games, or causes extreme 'loading times' when I launch a game of up to 2-3 minutes when the copy protection is verifying the disc.

Not to mention the disc swapping.
It fucking sucks.
That exact thing happened to my copy of Fallout 3. The disk fucked up, I downloaded a no CD crack, and now none of my mods work.
Use the Fallout Mod Manager (FOMOD).
It's pretty much essential for anyone who likes to play with a lot of mods.
 

Silva

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Oh, dear. This is what happens when people come out of business school and demand "security measures" from programmers too antisocial, lazy or inept to explain the basic impossibility of their success. To them, it's good business to "combat piracy". To anyone with half a grain of technical know-how, it's idiocy.

The only solution, as per usual, is education, education, education. Tell it to them, Shamus. I hope some future developers, if not some present ones, are reading closely.

KDR_11k said:
I'm getting the impression that DRM is just a security theater to fool investors. Investors demand growth (after all if you stay the same size inflation will cut you down) and the company must show the investors that it can achieve growth. However most companies just push out sequel after sequel, few people will be interested in the sequel to a game they haven't played and others won't buy the sequel after buying the original game so growth is limited or possibly reversing. By talking about piracy the publisher creates the appearance that there is massive untapped demand for the products they make that can be reached "simply" by tightening the DRM to make piracy harder.
You have a good point here. The reasoning behind this could be cynical and attuned to investor appeal.

On the other hand, are investors always technically uneducated about the processes of DRM? Who could say? Not to mention that, in any crowd of uninformed listeners, at least one is going to have a background in games or some IT knowledge, and very likely they will write in answer to a false sense of security.

Unless, of course, it is to their profit to ignore it, which they might believe. Investment is a balancing act, and I think that taking a rubber gun approach to the fight against piracy is a very risky business venture. You might be right - these companies might be taking that risk - but it's impossible to be sure. Usually, you'd expect a multinational like EA to be slightly more careful than that. Then again... we're in a recession for a reason, aren't we?

On a larger scale the industry is facing disinterest issues, investments are receding, so are gamer numbers (what happened to all those PS2 owners? Since the Wii has mostly new users that didn't have a PS2 that leaves millions of PS2 owners unaccounted for!). For now they can claim it's the recession but the entertainment businesses are supposed to be recession proof or even helped by recessions (pinball was invented during a recession). This disinterest cannot be fought by simply making the same games over and over again, if they didn't get more interest before why would they now? Piracy is a neat way to sidestep the product appeal issue and simply claim there are many people who want the product. Turning pirates into paying customers sounds easier than re-engineering your product to turn completely uninterested people into paying customers.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the entertainment industry is not recession proof. Anyone who says that is bonkers, and has no clue how people respond to economic crises. Only one type of industry is recession proof, and that's the essentials - food and water. Anything else is disposable - people can and will go without luxury if they believe that they are in danger of losing their potential to have more luxury later. The exception being addiction (which makes us believe something non-essential IS essential), which may have been held more true for the pinball machine than for the games any of the companies Shamus listed have designed.

The_root_of_all_evil said:
Next for DRM? You can only rent the game from their website. Which they can delete at any time.

Microtransactions as standard?
Too late, you know that whole server-side gaming thing some people are still in love with? That's precisely how it works.
 

UnravThreads

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asiepshtain said:
My fellow escapists "Pirates",

damn you, for stealing games and bringing this on us
damn you, for hurting the companies making our favorite meduim
damn you, for taking money from the hands of people slaving for years for our fun

You deserve this, every inch of it.
For every stolen game on your HD, for all the crimes you commited. And make no mistakes, you are criminals. You STEAL these games from people whose livlihood depend on the games income.
You are responsible for people losing jobs and going broke, damn each one of you stealing, thieving, "Pirate" bastards.

You boldly state you will steal stuff then act insulted when they install locks, damn you.
Well said, I was going to say something similar.

DRM has not, and will not, stop me buying a game. I don't see why the developer should be punished for the publisher's "mistakes" as it were. Is it a pain? Sometimes it can be, although I've not really had many DRM related issues.

P.S. I love Steam <3
 

dead_rebel

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Maybe the developers should make a game WORTH buying. I know a pirate and he buys originals every so often. Guess what games he buys? Good ones.

Mass Effect 1+2 because of how he doesn't mind activating it online with the added value concept of carry over save games.

The Orange Box, it's the best value in a package EVER and with Team Fortress 2 updates for free adding MORE to the game it's worth the purchase.

Any game with amazing online multi-player, Bad Company 2, Left4Dead2, Unreal Tournament 3. No, NOT MW2 because of lack of dedicated servers.

The Movies because of the great community that used to exist.

The point I'm trying to make is take it from a pirate...if a game is worth it, they will buy it. Stop being greedy and make us a game worth buying.
 

Nazrel

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This DRM is ridiculous.

You're making the pirated version a superior product.

I'm going to be yelled at for this, but the best way to combat piracy is to abandon the PC as a platform.
 

Anaphyis

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Nazrel said:
This DRM is ridiculous.

You're making the pirated version a superior product.

I'm going to be yelled at for this, but the best way to combat piracy is to abandon the PC as a platform.
Yeah, cause there is no such thing as pirated console games. IIRC the only console safe at the moment is the PS3 and isn't it a commercial success story.
 

Nazrel

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Anaphyis said:
Nazrel said:
This DRM is ridiculous.

You're making the pirated version a superior product.

I'm going to be yelled at for this, but the best way to combat piracy is to abandon the PC as a platform.
Yeah, cause there is no such thing as pirated console games. IIRC the only console safe at the moment is the PS3 and isn't it a commercial success story.
I didn't say it would end piracy, I said it was the best way to combat it.

It's a more difficult to pirate a console game, and they may actually be in a position to do something about it since they control the hardware. Though I admit all this lets DD everything attitude is probably enabling it (Online connections were the biggest mistake consuls ever made.)

The PC on the other hand is "thee" pirated format, you can get pirated versions of theses games day 1 sometimes, it is by far the easiest platform to pirate from. It is the lush fields that pirates harvest.

If companies suddenly decide that the PC is no longer a viable format, then those lush fields lay fallow, and they have nothing. And maybe, though I wouldn't hold my breath on this, some pirates rethink the viability of pirating.

P.S: The PS3 is doing fine.

P.P.S: Yes, much of the "but they control the hardware." can be countered by getting it modded, but to do that you need to know how to mod it, know some one how could mod it or pay someone to mod it. Either way this requires certain knowledge on your part, has the possibility of messing up the hardware in someway, and voids the warranty. (which with an Xbox 360, you might need.) Regardless it creates an enbuggerence on the part of the end user trying to pirate.

P.P.P.S: There has also been over a million people banned from Xbox Live for having pirated games.
 

WCG

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Personally, I'm finding plenty of great games from Indies and just... dedicated hobbyists. No DRM, no hassles, and cheap (sometimes free). Right now, I'm having a great time with Aurora, UnReal World, and Dwarf Fortress, while firing up Mount&Blade whenever I can for a change of pace, and trying to get back to any number of other games I haven't finished.

Mainstream developers haven't come close to the originality and depth of those games, not anywhere near. And yeah, I'm buying old games from GOG.com. There's not enough time in a day to play everything as it is, so why waste time with mainstream developers who have their heads up their...
 

TarkXT

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So has Shamus been crowned the champion of those against DRM idiocy? It would seem so. I really don't mind rage fests but you should be doing more than ripping into one company or another about DRM's every other article.

You're so much better than that.