"dumbed down for the console gamer"

[Spacewolf]

I play the Pc most often but i havent really noticed any dumbing down RTS dont seem to do to well on the consoles which is strange because i only use the mouse usually in them, but otherwise i carnt really see a different i mean there arn't any Pc games that i play that need all the buttons to play even when people go on about mouse control being better i carnt really see what there talking about as i can aim more precisly with an analog stick (yes even without aim assist before people start complaining)

 

[00slash00]

Its probably because you have ruined every awesome franchise, EX: look at Fallout 2 compared to 3. One was awesome, the other was a dumbed down buggy piece of trash. Just please play Halo Wars, and leave the rest of the RTS's alone.

finally, someone who agrees with me about the fallout series! i was so pissed when they turned my beloved rpg, into a first person shooter

Thanks, can you please tell that to the twenty people who message me about trolling because I think Fallout 3 is a disappointment.

god people are stupid, "your opinion differs from mine, so you must be a troll!" people do the same thing to me when i say that i thought kotor was overrated . i mean you cant call something a sequel and then make it a completely different genre of game. it would be like if they made halo 4, and made it a turn based rpg

 

[SyphonX]

It really doesn't have much to do with the supposed level of 'intelligence' of the console gamer. It's the fact that consoles are extremely limited in their presentation of games. You can only do so many things with a confined control scheme and lackluster hardware.

You can still put out some really awesome games on consoles, but the fact remains they are very limited, and always have to remove features due to size constraints. The games are always less complex and not as grand as they should be.

PC gamers in general are just tired at this point, because very, very few developers make a worth PC game anymore. They either just port or copy the same version to all platforms, when the PC could do so much more.

So when someone says "dumbed down", they usually mean the game itself being lessened in quality. Usually, anyway.

 

[badgersprite]

I'm a console gamer, and when they say, "Dumbed down", they aren't referring to anything about the gamers who play on consoles. What they're referring to is that the analog stick controls on a console game are inherently slower than a mouse, meaning that needs to be compensated for in order for games to be balanced, fair and competitive.

It's not a criticism of maturity or anything. It's just that the differences in the systems need to be taken into account when putting a game on multiple platforms.

 

[Eduku]

I'm a console gamer, and when they say, "Dumbed down", they aren't referring to anything about the gamers who play on consoles. What they're referring to is that the analog stick controls on a console game are inherently slower than a mouse, meaning that needs to be compensated for in order for games to be balanced, fair and competitive.

It's not a criticism of maturity or anything. It's just that the differences in the systems need to be taken into account when putting a game on multiple platforms.

Yes, this. It's good to see that some console gamers are above those knee-jerk reactions that PC gamers are looking down on them and instead give thoughtful responses.

 

[10zack986]

I play the Pc most often but i havent really noticed any dumbing down RTS dont seem to do to well on the consoles which is strange because i only use the mouse usually in them, but otherwise i carnt really see a different i mean there arn't any Pc games that i play that need all the buttons to play even when people go on about mouse control being better i carnt really see what there talking about as i can aim more precisly with an analog stick (yes even without aim assist before people start complaining)

Sweet jesus use a period.

OT: As people may or may not know, the system specs of consoles don't increase with time, therefore the graphics of console games will eventually stop getting better (at least until a new system is released). PCs do not have such restrictions on graphics, so one would assume that we will see an influx of high performance games rolling in. Now here's the problem; there is an ever growing market for console games. If developers wish to make more money, they must make games for consoles as well as PCs. Developers could very well make games with incredible graphics, but they won't be able to develop for the consoles.

So what do you do? You dumb down the game! Give it console graphics, which are sub-par by current PC standards. We haven't seen a PC game with cutting edge graphics since Crysis, and that was 3 years ago! (Except maybe Shattered Horizon, but that was a glorified benchmarking program)

I for one want a game that will make my graphics card sweat. A game that no console can play.

 

[Spencer Petersen]

Its mostly a reaction PC gamers go through from the great sense of abandonment that the major developers are heaping on them now. Every day it seems there's a big announcement that so and so game company are going to make games exclusively for the console market and the PC gamers will have to put up with a shitty port at console price. As such, they tend to react with hatred toward the new target audience because they falsely see them as the guilty one.

I'd liken it to a child whose parents clearly favor their sibling, they are understandably angry, but instead of being angry at the parents, they blame their sibling, because they see it as their fault.

Moral of the story, console gamers are being blamed for the acts of shitty developers who sell out and abandon those who put them on the map in the first place. The anger may be misguided, but don't insult them by saying they should get over it, that makes you a twat.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Agreed. 'Dumbed down', while perhaps being technically correct, has some derogatory connotations. I'd say 'simplified' would be a good way to put it, but then, as you said, console gamers might still be offended by that.

Well let's just spare everyone's feelings and go with 'streamlined' then.

 

[EvilMaggot]

It's used because people are ridiculous. I did a blog post on this recently, and the entire notion is beyond silly. 'Dumbed down for consoles' is just the insecure PC elitist's excuse to push blame from poor development (Because they love the developer) to other, 'inferior' platforms. It's a joke.

That's a nice blog post - I agree with pretty much everything you said there.

I sigh in irritation whenever I hear a PC elitist say "OMG DUMBED DOWN 4 CONSOLES!!!" the same way I sigh whenever I hear a an idiot fanboy say "OMG HALO SUCKS HALF-LIFE 2 IS SOOO MUCH BETTER AND YOU'RE A COCKFAG FOR LIKING ANYTHING ELSE!!!". Elitism annoys me to no end.

funny i hear that about Halo instead of half life from console gamers that halo is the most awesome made gamer EVA! and half life series suck... tho i got nothing against the ppl who are calm about it, ive played halo 1&2 on PC wich i think is okay so i understand the halo fans. Halo is a universe of its own so you could never compare it to half life.

I have managed, through a combination of dumb luck and... er, more dumb luck, to avoid the raging Halo fanboys that give the series its bad name. I visit a grand total of 3 forums - one of these is a tiny little fan forum for an internet author which receives very few posts per day, another is a very civil and nice fan-forum for Relic (LONG LIVE THE GLORY OF HOMEWORLD), and the third is... this place. Which has a whole bunch of reasonable people and the odd elitist PC-gaming Valve/Bioware fanboy (usually Valve). The author's forum has about 1 other guy who's into freaking FPS games, let alone Halo, other than me - though Mass Effect is very popular. The Relic fan-forum is such ridiculous levels of civil, trolling is damn-near nonexistant (well, those few who fail to realise this and troll are quickly punished - discipline is harsh there, but it's all definitely for the better as it's an absolutely wonderful community). As for the Escapist forums, I haven't seen any raging prepubescent Halo fans yet - I can only assume they get drowned out by the loud, bullhorn-wielding Valve fans who do much the same thing, only with better grammar and a more extensive vocabulary.

I want to play Half-Life 2, if only so I can see what all the goddamn fuss is about, and plan to when I'm able. At that point, I will see how it compares to the Halo games (I'm expecting - from what I've heard - to go in, get terrified out of my wits and have to fight frantically to finish the game before I lose control of my bladder).

Wow that was a massively, hugely offtopic post. Eh, whatever.

haha i actulley dont enjoy HL2 anymore in the singleplayer without the "Substance" mod it brings like 25-30 more weapons in the games and different solid snake "modes"... or else the SP is just to effing boring :/ yes the gravity gun was fun the first 10 times.. now its boring.
sorry for OFFtopic xD

but yes there have been some major halo fanboys in the past... they prob went over to 4chan

 

[Romidude]

Find a console gamer who won't call me a fag, then you can make this thread.

 

[Eduku]

Agreed. 'Dumbed down', while perhaps being technically correct, has some derogatory connotations. I'd say 'simplified' would be a good way to put it, but then, as you said, console gamers might still be offended by that.

Well let's just spare everyone's feelings and go with 'streamlined' then.

Sounds good to me. My, this does sound awfully politically correct. I'm not 'short', just 'vertically challenged'.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Agreed. 'Dumbed down', while perhaps being technically correct, has some derogatory connotations. I'd say 'simplified' would be a good way to put it, but then, as you said, console gamers might still be offended by that.

Well let's just spare everyone's feelings and go with 'streamlined' then.

Sounds good to me. My, this does sound awfully politically correct. I'm not 'short', just 'vertically challenged'.

Well if you don't want to sound politically correct I suggest going with "gang raped by retarded flipper children"... I doubt many people would see that as a politically correct statement.

 

[Eduku]

Agreed. 'Dumbed down', while perhaps being technically correct, has some derogatory connotations. I'd say 'simplified' would be a good way to put it, but then, as you said, console gamers might still be offended by that.

Well let's just spare everyone's feelings and go with 'streamlined' then.

Sounds good to me. My, this does sound awfully politically correct. I'm not 'short', just 'vertically challenged'.

Well if you don't want to sound politically correct I suggest going with "gang raped by retarded flipper children"... I doubt many people would see that as a politically correct statement.

Well it's all about balance I guess...

 

[Lancer723]

PC Gamers: "Console gamers are ruining our games, which are so much better for a number of reasons which I will now state in an orderly and logical manner"

Console Gamers: *Too busy playing their games to respond*

What about us who are both? What do EVERYONE who plays both say about it?

People like that (You and me both) sit here and shake our heads sadly and go about our day.

 

[Luke5515]

Well, although there is a much larger portion of console gamers who are loud mouthed brats who couldn't play a game more complex than point and shoot for their life, I think the main reason that everything gets "dumbed down" is the consoles controller limitations.

 

[IkeGreil29]

The difficulty of console games has been going consistently down... I think the last difficult games were on the N64 generation, and then it started plummeting. Just look at Project D by Nerdballoon; 11 year old kid thinks the games most of the oldschool gamers would pay to see a better but faithful to the original version of are not as fun as Halo or COD WaW.

In a way, there has always been a dumming down for console, simply because it is a more limited platform, and recently been established as the non-hardcore console, simply because of market strategies. Look at MS, making Kinect games and appealing to the FPS Generation, but pretty much nothing else. Look at Nintendo, offering family friendly shit (I will debate that there is stuff for hardcore gamers there, though, if you look for it). Sony is perhaps the best balanced, but even then has to come up with their own versions of what the Wii did for their Move.

Console has recently emerged in the VG market, and as such attracts a larger audience, therefore inviting all gamers, even the ones who don't know the difference between a bumper and a trigger. On the other hand, less games are on the PC, making it less appealing for a large amount of people, but the few that remain are usually more informed and are better at Video Games, because they were the geeks to begin with.

I am both a PC and Console gamer...

And please, I mean no offense, I'm just expressing a quick reflection on the topic.

Edit: I just thought about something else too. Console gamers usually want and do spend less time gaming, so certain PC titles, like a The Witcher RPG which is extremely complicated, have to be supposedly "dummbed down" because those gamers spend less time playing their games and can't dedicate enough time to go:

"Hmmm... if I put all my points into dexterity, I wonder what will happen? And then how about I put some on strength? Or maybe try this other build?" They just don't have the same willingness to spend time and save games trying out different stuff.

But that doesn't mean it's bad. I'd say it's good; if you want a more complete and complicated gaming experience because you enjoy that, go for PC.
And then if you establish PC is not for you, you have THREE excellent consoles to choose from, and most people I think end up mixing, anyway.

 

[Iwata]

Because there will always be elitist douchebags who like to claim superiority over the stupidest things. It really is that simple.

 

[zHellas]

Its probably because you have ruined every awesome franchise, EX: look at Fallout 2 compared to 3. One was awesome, the other was a dumbed down buggy piece of trash. Just please play Halo Wars, and leave the rest of the RTS's alone.

Damn trolls.

Hmm coming from the dude with a two a word post thats a bit insulting. Atleast I adressed the OP, your trolling other peoples posts. And I'm sorry that I wanted to end this persons post early before they talk about how games today are golden encrusted gods and how the games of yesteryear have bad graphics and confusing mechanics. I hope that when your done with puberty, people will destroy you beloved franchise.
Damn trolls.

Hi Pot! Meet Kettle!

OT: We should probably just stop talking about this subject.

 

[T3chn0s1s]

(And now, another random poorly flowing word salad from T3chn0s1s)

Okay, I'm going to be honest. I got to the third page, skipped over to 7, and decided to drop my already stated but seemingly ignored two-cents worth without checking to see if someone actually has bothered to acknowledge a similar point even though it doesn't continue the argument.

Why is dumbing down a game suddenly a BAD thing?

When did this become about the players, anyway? I just went back to the OP to check and it seemed to be a question about whether or not it is about the players. I've still not seen a PC gamer who seemed even moderately coherent state that it's a player thing. That seems to be the console's side of the fence.

"U GUIZ M MAKE THINK US FOR AM FEWLZ! WE M NUT DUMBZ!!11!"

I don't recall anyone saying that console gamers are stupid, despite all of the console gamers protesting that they are not.

Yes, 'dumbing down for consoles' IS a developer choice, and it's no one's fault that it's a developer choice. It doesn't make the statement any less valid that it's dumbed down between the mediums, no matter which way it goes. However, people seem to be failing basic English here. (Inb4 'lol u englsh sux u use 2 man-e comaz n badz gramarz' lololol) 'Dumbing down for console' is actually a misleading statement anyway because as it was pointed out earlier in the thread most of the games that get 'dumbed down' are actually being transferred UP. They're not games that are developed for multiple platforms in the first place, as any time those would be called 'dumbed down' the game probably wasn't very good anyway. (few exceptions apply)

Everyone seems to get all offended when people suggest any 'dumbing down' occurred. I can't for the life of me figure why. No one is calling you stupid, it's not an insult. It's English. It's a simple retarding of the development to fit within set confines set forth by the company's execs. It has nothing to do with what platform it is, usually, it's just that it winds up working better on one or the other because of the type of game, or the design decisions made, and suddenly everyone's pointing fingers.

By the way, console gamers. Don't even sit there and act like you guys get the short end of the trash-talking stick. You get plenty of licks in against PC gamers all the time. Hell, a lot of them are right here in this thread. Likewise, PC gamers tear you guys a new one any time they get the chance. In the end it all boils down to human nature. Mine is bigger/better/badder/more/worse/less/superior/inferior/lobster/tastier/blander/duller/shinier/prettier/brighter/crappier/gorier/BEST! I got less sleep than you, you're a pussy! I got a better computer than you, suck on that! I got more ice-cream than you, ha ha sucker! I got less ice-cream than you, I want more! It's nature. I'm not asking you to STOP it, I'm just asking that you realize it.

The problems that most people refer to as 'dumbing down' aren't dumbing down at all, though. It's not a situation of, "Man, dawg. You got console in my Starcraft." Nor is it a case of "Dude, man. You got PC in my Halo!" No, the problem comes from this scenario:

'Reasonable Gamer Tim': "Man, thanks for letting me play your xbox. This game is so good but there isn't a PC version. I don't own this console, but I have an awesome PC. I am going to get all of my friends to demand a PC version, because it would be so cool to actually own this game so I could play it any time!"

Next Market Meeting

'Marketing Sally', AKA 'CEO Sally': "Man, a lot of our consumers seem to be looking the markets over for a copy of 'Popular Title IV' on the PC. Steam, Impulse, and Gamefly are offering to market it for us so we don't even have to worry about it. Can development piece us together something workable?"

'Development Bob': "Oh heck yeah. I think that would be a great idea! We can rework the control scheme and open up a more in-depth customization of the gameplay experience to compensate for updated hardware and get a few bugs out that we didn't catch in the console release. This can only be a good thing! Hey, while we're working on that, so that the rest of the dev team doesn't get bored, we can go ahead and get design to work on some new content to release alongside it to release bundled with the PC edition, and offer as dlc for our loyal console fans."

'Marketing Bill': "Cool, we'll announce it immediately. How does next month sound for a release date?"

'Development Bob': "Uhm... About five months too soon?"

'Marketing Steve': "Too late. Pre-orders already coming in through Steam."

'Development Bob': "Uh, okay. Well... Then if we pool some manpower from another department we can probably get most of it to a playable state for the PC."

'Marketing Anafgnat': "Actually, these PC guys are gamers, right? They obviously have a console already. Just cut out the control changes because they can totally just buy a gamepad, right? We'll market it as needing one, they won't mind."

'Development Bob': "Well... That's kind of a dick move, but okay. We'll just work on getting it running on a PC and getting all the bugs worked out before launch... That's at least six months of testing that you're going to need us to do in a month. Can we have some of the testers from 'Popular title V' to get it done faster?"

'Marketing Jerry': "Actually, you and Design Carl can take care of this by yourselves, right? We really have to get 'Popular Title IV: Spinoff Edition' out to coincide with this PC release of 'Popular Title IV', and your team being the original devs on 'Popular Title IV', we can think of no one better to speed up this release. Actually, can you guys take care of making 'Popular Title IV: Spinoff Edition' a PC native launch as well, while you're working on 'Popular title IV'? Thanks."

'Development Bob': "I... We... No?"

'CEO Sally': "Thanks Development Bob! You're a gem!"



Two months later...


'CEO Sally': [Enter stage left]"Hey uh... Bob... About those PC launches. Our fans are getting rabid. We need those launches or you're going to be supporting your family from a bread line."

'Development Bob': "I.. We.. We haven't changed anything. After digging through the archaic code that 'Programming Donald' never standardized we barely have it operating in a windows environment."

'CEO Sally': "But it runs."

'Development Bob': "Sometimes?"

'CEO Sally': "Great! I swear, sometimes I wonder what we pay you guys for. Jesus. Get it over to marketing so they can get some box-art on it and hopefully save your sorry ass. Any more screw-ups like this, though, and I'll have your key-card." [Exit Stage *****]

'Design Carl': "Man. I'm getting a job with 'Major Competitor' in a couple weeks to work on 'Next Big Thing VIII'. You're on your own."


[Scene]


The inverse holds true in many cases as well. Going to console, some games just don't get the loving attention they deserve. Developers just can't logistically clear it. Some companies, despite being big names, aren't 'big money' as far as expendable income. There are overheads. I made that situation out to be a bit comical and hyperbolic, but I'm not saying that big name developers are a bad thing. I'm just saying that they are businesses. Don't hate them for it either, just get informed. Find out what you're getting yourself into when you make purchases, and find out why that game you hate sucks before you go ranting about it, then take your complaints to the right places. I guarantee you the four or five blizzard employees who read this forum weren't swayed by our posts about the real-ID issue.

For some of these arguments in here, I'd suggest a change of tact for some. Assume everyone who reads you posts doesn't know what you're saying because they're not in your head at the time of writing, and try to be mindful of what you can realistically expect.

Another thing I'd like to say is this 'dumbing down' isn't even a bad thing like everyone seems to be on about. The phrase 'dumbing down' does not have some intrinsic negativity to it. In fact, it is quite often the only reason another platform can enjoy a game to its fullest. I'm not talking first person shoots being better on mouse and keyboard or consoles, and we're not going to get into the infinite debate of 'lol u kin onlee knoz hao 2 shute n cnusule cuz m haz ato-am u sily f4nb0yeeez!!! lolololol'. There's no room for discussing personal preferences in the 'dumbing down' thread boys and girls, because that's not 'dumbing down', that's 'being dumb'. There's a difference in making a game ENJOYABLE on another platform, and being a douchebag about whether southpaw or wasd 'pwnz m04r nubz' (or for that matter ,aoe vs wasd, you damn dvorak folk.)

I mean, If we're talking about blizzard porting diablo III to the consoles, I imagine there would be some 'dumbing down' for the consoles. (I'd, in fact, be rather upset if we didn't see A LOT of work put into dumbing it down since blizzard can afford to wipe their collective ass with freshly minted million dollar bills, and could thus afford to make a decent port) I'd also imagine that you console folk getting all offended by the use of the term would be VERY GRATEFUL that they dumbed it down, because you don't want to use an analog stick as a mouse, or even the atrocious sensing on the wii pointer. (I'd also imagine, it being Blizzard, in all their wisdom they'd give you the option to use a USB keyboard and mouse if they did a port, but that kind of negates the 'dumbing down is good' argument)





(DISCLAIMER: Yes, I am aware that people are going to be like 'ZOMG ZOMG ZOGM ZOGM ZOGM ZOMGZOGMZOGMZOGMZOGMZOGMZOGMZOGMZGOZMOGMZOGMZOGMZOGM U R DUM U DUNZ GET DAT M TALKZ BOUT WEN DEH SUCK A GAM CUZ M ON BOFE' but frankly, you're wrong. They're not dumbing down these games that you claim are getting worse, because of some magical boundary between what we like as human beings. That's not 'dumbing down' a game. I'm getting old enough now as a gamer that I see games coming out that make me go, "What is this garbage?" just like my parents did about my music in high school, and my choice of reading materials. Tastes change, and that has NOTHING TO DO with the platform it's on. If you haven't been seeing the PC titles that fall into the new-tastes or the console titles that fit into the old-tastes coming out CONSTANTLY, then you're not paying enough attention. This, however, is a rant for another word-salad.)

[Please keep all comments about how poorly constructed this post is to a minimal, as I'm well aware that it's going to be painful to read when I post it. That's a developer choice (read as: My Choice) as I don't have the resources (i.e. time) available to devote toward making this a more coherent commentary on the subject. Perhaps if the escapist were willing to sponsor an article on the topic, I'd be willing to make something readable for you to enjoy.]


. o O (EDIT BALLOON)

By the by, I am fully aware that my opinion on what 'dumbing down' means is exactly that, but it's based off of my most frequent exposure to the word in actual game journalism. I'm not taking everyone kid with a grudge into account here, just actual publications that talk about 'dumbing down' games for consoles. I am aware that there are many interpretations of the phrase, and I can indeed see the deep philosophical debate that would come up in just exploring that phrase's application to gaming as a whole by all parties present in the community. However, I was hoping to appeal to a sense of unification in the name of 'Dumbing Down : Something I Hope Never Stops, Because I Enjoy Console Gaming'...

Is that weird? Since I don't own any current-gen consoles personally, and do all my gaming on my enormous peni- er... gaming rig?

 

[00slash00]

im mainly a pc gamer and im not trying to sound elitist but i think some console games are made to be less complex and easier than many pc games. there seems to be more hand holding on consoles, especially in recent years. i think pc gamers are considered the more hardcore because you could spend $300 for a console plus games but a pc gamer requires a lot more technical knowledge and more importantly, a much higher financial dedication. im not saying a console gamer isnt a hardcore gamer but i think pc gamers have an image as being the more hardcore.

i honestly never thought console games were dumbed down until the witcher. i thought it was very straight forward and easy to figure out what to do and where to go. console gamers, however, seemed to be at a complete loss. i remember watching yahtzee's review and i couldnt figure out what about the game he thought was so confusing. another thing is that pc games have something console games dont, a quick save button. maybe pc games are generally less forgiving to balance out the fact that most console games essentially go by checkpoints while pc games allow you to save every 2 seconds if you want (and some even let you save during battles)