#DumpStarWars The new hashtag boycott

[bastardofmelbourne]

Well, yeah. I was sort of thinking of a right-wing alternative to Star Wars. I'll be frank: It was the bleakness of the 40K setting that I like. I'm actually glad that all the 'silliness' has been excised from the setting, and there's significantly more dignity and gravitas to it. The horror of the setting is the main draw, and it's always been best when it's played completely straight.

What I like most about 40k is how it can depict the existential despair of a once-great civilisation descending to ever-more brutal atrocities in a hopeless war for survival, and then swing madly to these goofy motherfuckers. [https://youtu.be/n4Ths-g5AdI?t=32]

It somehow presents you with a very real sense of pathos over wasted potential and inherent human evil within a ridiculous world-scape where men with names like High Commissarch Bloodigor Smashfister fight space hooligans with chainsaw swords. It's genius. I'll never quite understand how it works, but it does.

Anyway, I'm not sure how a right-wing alternative to Star Wars would work. It'd probably look quite like Warhammer, though. You're right about that.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

So they're boycotting the film based on an unconfirmed rumor? Yeah that's about what I'd expect from Trump supporters.

Also I'm pretty sure most people don't know what the word "boycott" means so I don't see this as a problem.

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

Anything Trump supporters dont like must be good. Too bad I was already guaranteed to see it.

I'm frankly dissapointed they went back on their statement htat the movie was going to be anti-trump. I feel betrayed, so i'm only going to watch it thrice in cninemaa now as opposed to four times and buy the DVD edition on a sale

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Anyway, I'm not sure how a right-wing alternative to Star Wars would work. It'd probably look quite like Warhammer, though. You're right about that.

I'm curious as to when a story about a group of surprisingly well-armed freedom fighters standing up to an oppressive Nazi-analogue using nothing but their wits, guile, chutzpah, and literal manifestations of moral superiority with nary a thought about finding compromise or showing the horrors such an insurgency would bring stopped being a right wing-compatible fantasy. I mean, the Force basically red-pills Finn at the start of VII.

It can't just be the extra skin colors and female characters, can it?

 

[Parasondox]

You guys? You guys? Hear me out here. We have got to give these guys a space so they can feel safe. Damn what's that word called?... It's a phrase or something. You know what I mean, right? A word or term to describe a place where the Alt right can feel safe? Escapist, help me here!!

 

[shrekfan246]

It can't just be the extra skin colors and female characters, can it?

You already know the answer to that.

It gets worse....

What the fuck is that? Was that meant as a joke? Is that guy trolling? Are those his actual views of women and media? Does he seriously call himself rebel media? Please tell me that was a joke.

Oh no, that's essentially a conservative tabloid, so it's very much serious. It can be a little hard to determine because the guy seems just so over-the-top that it has to be parody, but... well... it's not. At least not from what I've seen of them in the past, and the right-wing in general doesn't tend to be good enough at making parody to keep something like that up for so long.

 

[Asita]

Um...

However, the majority of posts including the hashtag were made to mock it. Many users pointed out how Star Wars had always been about rebelling against white supremacy and fascism and that the boycotting the film for those ideals was oblivious and racist. The AV Club, Mashable, and The Daily Beast covered the spread of the hashtag.

...I'm sorry, is this another one of those cases where a few people do/say something silly, more people mock their silliness...and then all of those people are lumped together to claim that the initial foolishness is more widespread than it actually is? I mean yeah, the initial claims seem to be at absolute best specious and at least arguably dumb, but if the above is to be believed, then isn't it the same "nobody would have even known about it if you hadn't protested it" song and dance that we've been annoyed at for the last few years now?

 

[StatusNil]

You are going to have to dramatically simplify whatever it is you're saying here before I can really respond to it.

It breaks your suspension of disbelief to see contemporary political commentary in fiction? You find political allegories too preachy? You really like Coleridge? Help me out here.

OK then, though it doesn't seem like you need that much help there. Answers in order: 1) Yes. 2) Yes. 3) Some of the hits are good, I don't really know all the deep cuts.

I can't really believe it doesn't break someone's suspension of disbelief to see petty contemporary political jabs (commentary is a little too dignified a word for what I'm expecting) in their space fable. It's just that some think it's going to be a fun Team Us thing, but they'll change their mind eventually. It's not going to be super hilarious once the moment is past, just cringy and dated.

These creations should be for the ages, not for settling last week's scores.

Many users pointed out how Star Wars had always been about rebelling against white supremacy

(Sorry to be quoting your quote, but I can't be bothered to get my own.)

Uh, surely not. The Empire was not "White Supremacy", Lando was no more oppressed by it than Han. That was a major part of the beauty of it. It was about rebelling against controlling authoritarians. All could be equally in it together.

If anything, all the massively overblown brouhaha about the "White Supremacists" (who are in reality a small fringe, and Trump's not it) looks a lot like enacting a "Phantom Menace" plot, just in time for the Clone Army of the RightThinking Elite to take over.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

I'm beginning to wonder how a Warhammer 40K movie would do in the current climate, however.

You can watch Damnatus and Ultramarines if you're really curious.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Well, yeah. I was sort of thinking of a right-wing alternative to Star Wars. I'll be frank: It was the bleakness of the 40K setting that I like. I'm actually glad that all the 'silliness' has been excised from the setting, and there's significantly more dignity and gravitas to it.

Not me. I liked it far better when it was "Hair Metal Album Covers; The game"

The horror of the setting is the main draw, and it's always been best when it's played completely straight.

When did you get into 40k, can I ask? I'm speaking from someone who did from the very first Space Hulk board game.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

You guys? You guys? Hear me out here. We have got to give these guys a space so they can feel safe. Damn what's that word called?... It's a phrase or something. You know what I mean, right? A word or term to describe a place where the Alt right can feel safe? Escapist, help me here!!

I dunno, because I was told pretty clear that Safe Spaces are bad things, and you should never EVER keep people out of your life, nor should you be allowed to walk away from people fighting with you and insulting you. I'm stumped, dude.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It can't just be the extra skin colors and female characters, can it?

You already know the answer to that.

Yeah, well, never let it be said I don't try and give people the benefit of the doubt.

But shit, The Force Awakens even has the useless civilian government that's either too incompetent to realize the threat the First Order poses or too gutless to commit to enough action to stop them, and they get wiped out for it. The only thing that stops the bad guys is the clandestine, deniable, black money paramilitary spec-ops group that were the only ones brave/smart enough to keep launching raids against the FO while warning said useless government.

The only things that stop TFA from being a standard right-wing mil-sci novel or something Clancy would come up with is Finn being black, Poe being gay/bi/the most exemplary earnest human being in existence, and Rey managing to barely fight off two TIE-FOs (with help) and fighting off a wounded, emotionally compromised, exhausted, bleeding out Sith apprentice that wasn't trying to kill her back.

It'd be a bog-standard mil-sci story from 30 years ago if Disney's casting department defaulted to "white male" for extras and effective protagonists. Far more right-wing than the original trilogy ever was.

 

[StatusNil]

The only things that stop TFA from being a standard right-wing mil-sci novel or something Clancy would come up with is Finn being black [...]

I seem to recall that 24 had a black president and a female president, and those were the good presidents, as opposed to the traitorous white guy. Somehow the show managed to avoid being totally obvious about its ultra-leftist stance though...

 

[Saelune]

The only things that stop TFA from being a standard right-wing mil-sci novel or something Clancy would come up with is Finn being black [...]

I seem to recall that 24 had a black president and a female president, and those were the good presidents, as opposed to the traitorous white guy. Somehow the show managed to avoid being totally obvious about its ultra-leftist stance though...

You mean the show about a white guy who stopped terrorists LITERALLY all day? Often using guns and violence?

If you think THATS ultra-leftist...I cant even be sarcastic. That is not leftist at all.

 

[StatusNil]

If you think THATS ultra-leftist...I cant even be sarcastic. That is not leftist at all.

No cause for alarm, I was being sarcastic.

 

[TheMajesticSpaceDuck]

You know what's weird? The amount of people who insist that politics should be left out of creative media/art but will reference Orwell in place of an argument. Or who celebrated when South Park attacked PC culture. I mean I have to give Progressives/"SJWs" some credit, they at least maintain specific viewpoints have no place in media. They admit they want to shut down one side. The alt-right on the other hand claim balance but celebrate their viewpoint being represented while screaming that politics should be left out of it when they're not.

 

[Neverhoodian]

People are losing their shit over an unsubstantiated rumor on the internet? Is it Tuesday already?

Especially considering the main characters are basically "Not Kyle Katarn" and "Not Jan Orrs". Which points to the fact that they killed the Extended Universe specifically so they could plagiarize the crap out of it. That last bit right there is the reason people should boycott Rogue One, not the stupid political propaganda from both sides of the political spectrum.

I'll admit Jyn Erso sounds suspiciously similar to Jan Ors and Andor has a Kyle-esque appearance, but the "Legends" account of the theft was quite different from what we appear to be getting in Rogue One. Also, Kyle's mission was just one of several conflicting sources. The Star Wars Radio Drama, The Han Solo Trilogy, Jedi Dawn, X-Wing, Battlefront II and Star Wars: Lethal Alliance all had different accounts of how the Rebels obtained the Death Star plans. This huge continuity snarl was sloppily retconned later as Operation Skyhook.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Operation_Skyhook

This is one of the reasons why I don't mind the abandonment of the old EU. It had become a bloated, incoherent mess over the years due to lack of consistency and quality control. The new continuity can borrow as many "Legends" elements as they want for all I care, as long as the story makes some fucking sense this time around.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

I can't really believe it doesn't break someone's suspension of disbelief to see petty contemporary political jabs (commentary is a little too dignified a word for what I'm expecting) in their space fable. It's just that some think it's going to be a fun Team Us thing, but they'll change their mind eventually. It's not going to be super hilarious once the moment is past, just cringy and dated.

These creations should be for the ages, not for settling last week's scores.

That's fair.

I guess a lot of it depends on the speed with which the political allegory is dated. I'm weirdly reminded of Mark Millar's Ultimates run, which was so heavily loaded with references to the Iraq War and 9/11 that reading it today makes it seem all a bit ridiculous. On the other hand, you've got something like Watchmen, which retains a lot of its impact long after the contemporary politics of the Cold War have become extinct.

I'm sure I could find examples that weren't comic books, but I'm pressed for time right now.

I'm curious as to when a story about a group of surprisingly well-armed freedom fighters standing up to an oppressive Nazi-analogue using nothing but their wits, guile, chutzpah, and literal manifestations of moral superiority with nary a thought about finding compromise or showing the horrors such an insurgency would bring stopped being a right wing-compatible fantasy. I mean, the Force basically red-pills Finn at the start of VII.

Well, that was what I was wondering. The core Star Wars conflict of Empire vs. Rebels doesn't seem tied to a contemporary right or left wing ideology. It's only left-wing insofar as you consider fascism to be the definition of right-wing.

All this just reminds me why political labels are so fucking useless sometimes. Oh, well.

Especially considering the main characters are basically "Not Kyle Katarn" and "Not Jan Orrs". Which points to the fact that they killed the Extended Universe specifically so they could plagiarize the crap out of it. That last bit right there is the reason people should boycott Rogue One, not the stupid political propaganda from both sides of the political spectrum.

I would've quite liked it if they'd just kept the old EU names. They might be worried about baggage, but for people who played the old Jedi Knight games, it'd be a nice shout-out.

It's not like they're tied down to a specific plot, anyway. They've already just thrown their hands in the hair and declared the EU non-canon. They can afford a shout-out here and there. Then again, I was half-expecting Kylo Ren's real name to be Jacen, and they didn't do that for...some reason.

 

[Asita]

Many users pointed out how Star Wars had always been about rebelling against white supremacy

(Sorry to be quoting your quote, but I can't be bothered to get my own.)

Uh, surely not. The Empire was not "White Supremacy", Lando was no more oppressed by it than Han. That was a major part of the beauty of it. It was about rebelling against controlling authoritarians. All could be equally in it together.

If anything, all the massively overblown brouhaha about the "White Supremacists" (who are in reality a small fringe, and Trump's not it) looks a lot like enacting a "Phantom Menace" plot, just in time for the Clone Army of the RightThinking Elite to take over.

Eh, it's a stretch to say that it's about rebelling against white supremacy, but it's not entirely wrong either.

The Empire had a good deal of historical inspiration, including but not limited to Nazi Germany (but this was, however, the most immediately recognizable parallel for many people). Fans latched onto that and much of the now apocryphal Expanded Universe took the idea and ran with it. The Empire was semi-canonized as a human supremacist organization, wherein many of the near-exclusively human officers were openly racist and contemptuous of non-human cultures. Now, the Empire has always been an oppressive regime, so saying that Star Wars has always been about "rebelling against white supremacism" is wrong in several respects, but it is not wrong to say that the Empire has long had obvious supremacist overtones, though they were rarely the direct focus.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Eh, it's a stretch to say that it's about rebelling against white supremacy, but it's not entirely wrong either.

The Empire had a good deal of historical inspiration, including but not limited to Nazi Germany (but this was, however, the most immediately recognizable parallel for many people). Fans latched onto that and much of the now apocryphal Expanded Universe took the idea and ran with it. The Empire was semi-canonized as a human supremacist organization, wherein many of the near-exclusively human officers were openly racist and contemptuous of non-human cultures. Now, the Empire has always been an oppressive regime, so saying that Star Wars has always been about "rebelling against white supremacism" is wrong in several respects, but it is not wrong to say that the Empire has long had obvious supremacist overtones, though they were rarely the direct focus.

The Empire is canonically human-supremacist, not white-supremacist. Similar to the Imperium in Warhammer 40k, which doesn't bother discriminating against women and black people when it can discriminate against mutants and literal witches instead.

Which is fairly logical, actually; if humanity suddenly had to share space with aliens, we'd probably get over most of our racial conflicts pretty quickly in favour of protesting against the three-eyed Andromedans who reproduce by licking each other's nipples and who vomit into their children's mouths to feed them.