#DumpStarWars The new hashtag boycott

[bastardofmelbourne]

I'm beginning to wonder how a Warhammer 40K movie would do in the current climate, however.

Speaking as a Warhammer fan who's had to defend his choice of hobby more than once, it is a very problematic topic. Part of the problem is that Warhammer 40k, like Judge Dredd, was originally satirical - a black comedy piss-take of authoritarianism as understood by the British in the 80s.

But, like with Dredd, as time passed it started to play the ridiculous fascist aspects straight, partly because satire is difficult and partly because that's what the fans liked, and it's really awkward trying to explain to a college-aged lady who you'd like to impress that liking a fictional setting where Catholic Space Nazis are the good guys doesn't mean that you like fascism or totalitarianism; you just think it's cool. Kind of like the kids trying to explain to their parents that they don't listen to death metal because they want to worship Satan, but because listening to it makes them feel better.

As for the plausibility of a Marvel-style 40k film franchise - it'll never happen for a number of practical reasons; firstly, the money required means that it would almost certainly need a big-budget production company, and GW is about as willing to license its IP as a dog is willing to give up your shoes once he's got his teeth in them. Secondly, despite its memetic popularity online, it's still very much a niche market; not everyone has the patience or money to collect Warhammer, and the company's own policies have been driving away their most dedicated fans for the past decade or more.

In my dreams I picture a future where Warhammer has evolved into something like Skylanders, so that the physical models have a virtual counterpart that lets anyone play online in community tournaments with procedurally generated maps. GW would still make money off of model sales - a Space Marine model would equal a Space Marine in the game - and people could still paint and display the models - even maintaining an online showcase - but the simple logistics of arranging a game would be dramatically simplified. No need to free up a table for most of the afternoon, decorate it with lavish and expensive terrain pieces, and then find one or more friends also willing to put in the same amount of money and time just in order to get a single game done. Maybe if the hobby reaches that state, it'll hit the pop cultural critical mass required to pull off a multi-film franchise like the Marvel films.

Pity GW will never, ever do it

 

[burnout02urza]

But, like with Dredd, as time passed it started to play the ridiculous fascist aspects straight, partly because satire is difficult and partly because that's what the fans liked, and it's really awkward trying to explain to a college-aged lady who you'd like to impress that liking a fictional setting where Catholic Space Nazis are the good guys doesn't mean that you like fascism or totalitarianism; you just think it's cool. Kind of like the kids trying to explain to their parents that they don't listen to death metal because they want to worship Satan, but because listening to it makes them feel better.

Well, yeah. I was sort of thinking of a right-wing alternative to Star Wars. I'll be frank: It was the bleakness of the 40K setting that I like. I'm actually glad that all the 'silliness' has been excised from the setting, and there's significantly more dignity and gravitas to it. The horror of the setting is the main draw, and it's always been best when it's played completely straight.

I mean, if you've read the Inquisitor series - Particularly by Dan Abnett - Inquisitors are vaguely similar to Jedi Knights. They have unlimited authority, they roam the universe battling the Dark Side (i.e. Chaos) and they have powers beyond mortal men. Eisenhorn is probably the iconic Inquisitor, and he even (briefly) has a lightsaber.

Of course, they also torture people and wipe out entire civilizations. Sometimes, they nuke entire planets. They have ultimate authority, ultimate power - And so they're the Jedi through a really, really dark mirror. Eisenhorn himself, with the best of intentions, delves into daemonology with increasingly horrific consequences.

I can't help but think that's more topical, given the era we're in.

 

[Catnip1024]

To be honest, I don't like the progressive message Disney is pushing. I don't like Finn, I don't like Rey and I think the Force Awakens was subpar. The only really interesting new character was Kylo Ren, who should've been the focus. For Rogue One, what's-her-name the protagonist is pretty annoying, especially since she's a 'stronk woman' archetype. Having a multicolored band of diverse heroes (Except for Donnie Yen, because Donnie Yen is awesome) feels artificial and forced, too. It's like they're trying *so hard*, and it's this kind of identity politics that led to a backlash.

It's unlikely that this will put a dent in the unstoppable Star Wars juggernaut, anyway. But again, I think progressivism is mostly nonsense.

I'm beginning to wonder how a Warhammer 40K movie would do in the current climate, however.

The problem with Finn was not that he was a black character, but that he was such a badly written character. Whose logic goes something like "I don't like shooting innocent people, so I'm going to shoot the only people I actually know to get out of here, despite them all potentially feeling the same way". Likewise, Reyy as a character would have worked better if she wasn't so competent to start with. I can't empathise with competent people.

A 40K movie is a non-starter because of the millions of different groups that would be offended by it. And I doubt it would be done well enough to do justice to the franchise.

Aesthetically, they doubled down hard on the Nazi vibes, but thematically I saw a much stronger resemblance to North Korea. You know, the extremist, isolated fringe state obeying an outdated totalitarian ideology, doing crazy things and not being taken seriously by the local superpower (US/New Republic) until they get their hands on a WMD and everyone very quickly realises how dangerous they really are. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_weapons_tests_of_North_Korea]

You're probably right there, to be fair.

Don't even remind me of that stupid weapon. A planet-destroying laser beam that can be seen by every planet on route? That's not hitting a planet, that's clearing a swathe of space.

 

[Frankster]

This seems so..."forced", like outraged manufactured from nothing.

And reading the article, seems that's indeed the case, there's no real proof or smoking gun so rumor and hear say got turned into common belief due to being loudly repeated by some ideologues, and all this spawning from one rather idiotic comment made by a SW writer and probably some other tweeters who are projecting just as hard as the trump protestors if they think the empire is some white supremacist metaphor despite having no problems about having people of color in their ranks and the lack of women in the original films is more down to george lucas not wanting to show female pilots in danger then it is about making out the empire to be a metaphor for the patriarchy on top of being white supremacist like there are no doubt some crazies who believe is the case. TLDR everyone's seeing what they wanna see even though is 0 proof or support for their views being true.

*reads others comments and lols*

Heh didn't need much for you guys to go all trump fan bashing crazy and over react just as much as the people in the OP xD
I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.

I think this is all rumormongering and innuendo. I predict that there will be a generic appeal against Fascism that nobody could find offensive except actual Fascists. Except that it will be co-opted by various partisan factions and everyone will have a nice two minutes hate, at the end of which they will feel virtuous for having stood up (note: no actual standing or any other form of substantial effort will be involved) for whatever it is they claim to care so much about.

Ok you said in much more succint terms what i was trying to say xD I really need to learn to make my points effectively.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Well, yeah. I was sort of thinking of a right-wing alternative to Star Wars. I'll be frank: It was the bleakness of the 40K setting that I like. I'm actually glad that all the 'silliness' has been excised from the setting, and there's significantly more dignity and gravitas to it. The horror of the setting is the main draw, and it's always been best when it's played completely straight.

What I like most about 40k is how it can depict the existential despair of a once-great civilisation descending to ever-more brutal atrocities in a hopeless war for survival, and then swing madly to these goofy motherfuckers. [https://youtu.be/n4Ths-g5AdI?t=32]

It somehow presents you with a very real sense of pathos over wasted potential and inherent human evil within a ridiculous world-scape where men with names like High Commissarch Bloodigor Smashfister fight space hooligans with chainsaw swords. It's genius. I'll never quite understand how it works, but it does.

Anyway, I'm not sure how a right-wing alternative to Star Wars would work. It'd probably look quite like Warhammer, though. You're right about that.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

So they're boycotting the film based on an unconfirmed rumor? Yeah that's about what I'd expect from Trump supporters.

Also I'm pretty sure most people don't know what the word "boycott" means so I don't see this as a problem.

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

Anything Trump supporters dont like must be good. Too bad I was already guaranteed to see it.

I'm frankly dissapointed they went back on their statement htat the movie was going to be anti-trump. I feel betrayed, so i'm only going to watch it thrice in cninemaa now as opposed to four times and buy the DVD edition on a sale

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Anyway, I'm not sure how a right-wing alternative to Star Wars would work. It'd probably look quite like Warhammer, though. You're right about that.

I'm curious as to when a story about a group of surprisingly well-armed freedom fighters standing up to an oppressive Nazi-analogue using nothing but their wits, guile, chutzpah, and literal manifestations of moral superiority with nary a thought about finding compromise or showing the horrors such an insurgency would bring stopped being a right wing-compatible fantasy. I mean, the Force basically red-pills Finn at the start of VII.

It can't just be the extra skin colors and female characters, can it?

 

[Parasondox]

You guys? You guys? Hear me out here. We have got to give these guys a space so they can feel safe. Damn what's that word called?... It's a phrase or something. You know what I mean, right? A word or term to describe a place where the Alt right can feel safe? Escapist, help me here!!

 

[shrekfan246]

It can't just be the extra skin colors and female characters, can it?

You already know the answer to that.

It gets worse....

What the fuck is that? Was that meant as a joke? Is that guy trolling? Are those his actual views of women and media? Does he seriously call himself rebel media? Please tell me that was a joke.

Oh no, that's essentially a conservative tabloid, so it's very much serious. It can be a little hard to determine because the guy seems just so over-the-top that it has to be parody, but... well... it's not. At least not from what I've seen of them in the past, and the right-wing in general doesn't tend to be good enough at making parody to keep something like that up for so long.

 

[Asita]

Um...

However, the majority of posts including the hashtag were made to mock it. Many users pointed out how Star Wars had always been about rebelling against white supremacy and fascism and that the boycotting the film for those ideals was oblivious and racist. The AV Club, Mashable, and The Daily Beast covered the spread of the hashtag.

...I'm sorry, is this another one of those cases where a few people do/say something silly, more people mock their silliness...and then all of those people are lumped together to claim that the initial foolishness is more widespread than it actually is? I mean yeah, the initial claims seem to be at absolute best specious and at least arguably dumb, but if the above is to be believed, then isn't it the same "nobody would have even known about it if you hadn't protested it" song and dance that we've been annoyed at for the last few years now?

 

[StatusNil]

You are going to have to dramatically simplify whatever it is you're saying here before I can really respond to it.

It breaks your suspension of disbelief to see contemporary political commentary in fiction? You find political allegories too preachy? You really like Coleridge? Help me out here.

OK then, though it doesn't seem like you need that much help there. Answers in order: 1) Yes. 2) Yes. 3) Some of the hits are good, I don't really know all the deep cuts.

I can't really believe it doesn't break someone's suspension of disbelief to see petty contemporary political jabs (commentary is a little too dignified a word for what I'm expecting) in their space fable. It's just that some think it's going to be a fun Team Us thing, but they'll change their mind eventually. It's not going to be super hilarious once the moment is past, just cringy and dated.

These creations should be for the ages, not for settling last week's scores.

Many users pointed out how Star Wars had always been about rebelling against white supremacy

(Sorry to be quoting your quote, but I can't be bothered to get my own.)

Uh, surely not. The Empire was not "White Supremacy", Lando was no more oppressed by it than Han. That was a major part of the beauty of it. It was about rebelling against controlling authoritarians. All could be equally in it together.

If anything, all the massively overblown brouhaha about the "White Supremacists" (who are in reality a small fringe, and Trump's not it) looks a lot like enacting a "Phantom Menace" plot, just in time for the Clone Army of the RightThinking Elite to take over.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

I'm beginning to wonder how a Warhammer 40K movie would do in the current climate, however.

You can watch Damnatus and Ultramarines if you're really curious.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Well, yeah. I was sort of thinking of a right-wing alternative to Star Wars. I'll be frank: It was the bleakness of the 40K setting that I like. I'm actually glad that all the 'silliness' has been excised from the setting, and there's significantly more dignity and gravitas to it.

Not me. I liked it far better when it was "Hair Metal Album Covers; The game"

The horror of the setting is the main draw, and it's always been best when it's played completely straight.

When did you get into 40k, can I ask? I'm speaking from someone who did from the very first Space Hulk board game.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

You guys? You guys? Hear me out here. We have got to give these guys a space so they can feel safe. Damn what's that word called?... It's a phrase or something. You know what I mean, right? A word or term to describe a place where the Alt right can feel safe? Escapist, help me here!!

I dunno, because I was told pretty clear that Safe Spaces are bad things, and you should never EVER keep people out of your life, nor should you be allowed to walk away from people fighting with you and insulting you. I'm stumped, dude.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It can't just be the extra skin colors and female characters, can it?

You already know the answer to that.

Yeah, well, never let it be said I don't try and give people the benefit of the doubt.

But shit, The Force Awakens even has the useless civilian government that's either too incompetent to realize the threat the First Order poses or too gutless to commit to enough action to stop them, and they get wiped out for it. The only thing that stops the bad guys is the clandestine, deniable, black money paramilitary spec-ops group that were the only ones brave/smart enough to keep launching raids against the FO while warning said useless government.

The only things that stop TFA from being a standard right-wing mil-sci novel or something Clancy would come up with is Finn being black, Poe being gay/bi/the most exemplary earnest human being in existence, and Rey managing to barely fight off two TIE-FOs (with help) and fighting off a wounded, emotionally compromised, exhausted, bleeding out Sith apprentice that wasn't trying to kill her back.

It'd be a bog-standard mil-sci story from 30 years ago if Disney's casting department defaulted to "white male" for extras and effective protagonists. Far more right-wing than the original trilogy ever was.

 

[StatusNil]

The only things that stop TFA from being a standard right-wing mil-sci novel or something Clancy would come up with is Finn being black [...]

I seem to recall that 24 had a black president and a female president, and those were the good presidents, as opposed to the traitorous white guy. Somehow the show managed to avoid being totally obvious about its ultra-leftist stance though...

 

[Saelune]

The only things that stop TFA from being a standard right-wing mil-sci novel or something Clancy would come up with is Finn being black [...]

I seem to recall that 24 had a black president and a female president, and those were the good presidents, as opposed to the traitorous white guy. Somehow the show managed to avoid being totally obvious about its ultra-leftist stance though...

You mean the show about a white guy who stopped terrorists LITERALLY all day? Often using guns and violence?

If you think THATS ultra-leftist...I cant even be sarcastic. That is not leftist at all.

 

[StatusNil]

If you think THATS ultra-leftist...I cant even be sarcastic. That is not leftist at all.

No cause for alarm, I was being sarcastic.

 

[TheMajesticSpaceDuck]

You know what's weird? The amount of people who insist that politics should be left out of creative media/art but will reference Orwell in place of an argument. Or who celebrated when South Park attacked PC culture. I mean I have to give Progressives/"SJWs" some credit, they at least maintain specific viewpoints have no place in media. They admit they want to shut down one side. The alt-right on the other hand claim balance but celebrate their viewpoint being represented while screaming that politics should be left out of it when they're not.