E.A. is destroying the gaming business?

[ultramarine486]

Isn't that logic a little basic though? Sure once money exchanges hands the at face value towards the company/game is equal. However I would argue that fans earn their importance, albeit not anywhere near the point where the company NEEDS them, though things like word of mouth. I mean by the logic you presented free to play games should really be shafting anyone who isn't paying for whatever services they provide for cost since those people are valued less or not equal to the ones who buy the extras. Look at Kickstarter, there are numerous games in development/completed there that wouldn't have gotten anywhere if it wasn't for fans spending time pushing the word of mouth.

Yes it is a little simplistic, but the point isn't that fans have absolutely no value. The point is that unlike what so many fans seem to think they are not the end goal.

Like you said yourself, they dont NEED them but they are a boon (and a curse). You can coast on old school cred all the way to the bank, or disgruntled fans can bury you forever.

My main objection is with fans inflated self importance. If I am going to lay down some anecdotal evidence as an example, it would be a guy downright telling me that Blizzard "owed him respect" because his dedication to the War3 modding community had drawn people to play the game. Bullshit. He didn't do it out of his benevolence of his heart. He did it purely for his own self serving desire to play and mod the game. That Blizzard benefitted from this doesn't mean they ow him anything. He liked the product. he bought the product. Deal over.

Now you bring in the F2P issue. The thing is the only reason that it works is because in a multiplayer game players = content. The second the free players arn't beneficial to the product (through conversion or by addition) they become useless. Leaving me back at my original claim. Fandom is not valuable nor is their aproval anymore important than anyone else.

I think I can spot the divergence ahead in this discussion between us pretty much boiling down to how much value we perceive the fans to have. I personally believe back in that 'old school' day fans were less then important. However with such easy communication their value has in fact grown considerably. Granted it's not enough to save or sink a publisher but I think a well treated fanbase will push a game above mediocrity while a badly treated one will act as dead weight dragging the game down. And in this day and age no one wants to get saddled with the dreaded 7/10 score.

But yes there are always going to be those that feel like they've been slighted to by not having their whims catered to every step of the way, we are talking about 'FANatics' here.

 

[OpticalJunction]

Well EA can't be too bad if they invest so much money into projects that I care about, like Mass Effect and the Sims. I also think Origin is fine apart from the spyware issue, steam needs some real competition and EA is one of the few companies big enough to compete.

 

[gbemery]

There is a general consensus that EA is doing more bad than good to the gaming business.

Quite a few arguments have been made against EA (in no specific order):
- The forced use of Origin (a broken system)
- The gaming companies EA has bought and pretty much wrecked
- EA Bioware is under constant fire (Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age 2)
- EA looking for easy cash grabs (which has been brought up again since Dead Space 3 announcement)
- Whenever sometimes goes wrong at EA, instead of admitting they screwed up, they are blaming it on other things (like they did with Warfighter)

...And the list probably goes on.

My question is two-fold:
- Do you believe EA is harming the gaming business?
- Do you still buy games from EA?

I ask because I still see a lot of people pre-ordering / buying games from EA and at the same time see a lot of people complaining about EA. So, why don't just stop buying their games altogether?

On a side note, I should mention that the shit storm that was the ending of Mass Effect 3, did show the incredible influence Bioware holds over people and in turn that gamers can rise and stand up.

- The forced use of Origin (a broken system)
Unlike the forced use of Steam?
Origin is not without its merits, and while it doesn't suppass the current lvl steam has gotten to by being the first to really strike it big it by far surpasses what steam used to be. If you want to hold this against EA then keep your complaining consistent.

All I have to say is thank you for saying that, it's rather annoying when people assume EA is the only company to create games that require you to use a certain software they have just so you can play said game you bought.

- The gaming companies EA has bought and pretty much wrecked
We going to get the sob story of how EA killed Westwood again? Forgetting to mention that the original founders of Westwood were the ones that sold out and about half the employees walked out the door the sec they did? No we keeping the revisionist history then? Ok then. Welcome to business. Wrecks happen. Did EA wreck THQ while they were at it?

Again thank you, its like once EA enters the bid everyone forgets how buy outs and corporate take overs work. There are two sides that have to agree EA can't just say heres money we own you now. No, the companies bought out have to either be doing not as good as before that they need the money because they sense a sinking ship or they are just greedy. Anyway welcome to the business world internet have a seat the ride isn't over.

- EA Bioware is under constant fire (Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age 2)
By a relatively small demographic in an echo chamber yes (relative to the number of customers). Yeah thats the problem with the internet. You can easily find yourself in a bubble.

I played both of those games and their predecessors and I am not happy with how they turned out either but I am not touching this dead horse anymore...that is I think it use to be a horse..can't tell too well its nothing but a mass of dried blood rotting meat and clumps of hair I think.

- EA looking for easy cash grabs (which has been brought up again since Dead Space 3 announcement)
I am sorry I am going to break this to you, but none of the game developers love you. They dont even know you. They are looking for the best way to get as much money from their work as possible. Just like you are trying to get as much product as possible from your money. Greedy greedy both of you. You dont like the deal, then walk away and take your money else were. This is business. Not a Democracy. Only voice that matters is the one you do with your wallet.

Exactly, a business' number one priority is to its bottom line. If they can afford to take care of the customer then kudos to them if they do. But this philosophy of how the business is to blame for what customers are wanting or willing to pay for is absolutely nuts. "HOW DARE THEY HOW DARE THEY...give me things i'm willing to pay for..." If you don't like it don't buy it. There are some people out there who love Madden 2012 and there are going to be people who love Madden 3038. Let those people enjoy their games they like and go about your business. Just because you don't like it and can't understand why anyone else would doesn't mean its wrong.
Why does this hatred only come out in games? Why not for cars or bikes? "OMG why is Huffy coming out with another two wheeled bicycle? That is so lame there isn't anything new in its UI its still your basic pedal operated chain driven drive axel...how quaint."

- Whenever sometimes goes wrong at EA, instead of admitting they screwed up, they are blaming it on other things (like they did with Warfighter)
Yes we have never seen anything about EA admitting fault. I mean its not like a thread jumped out about how a beta tester got banned from Simcity for posting in a thread turned out to be nothing but jumping the gun, and as soon as it was cleared up then it is like it never happened. Like as if people were actively looking for fuck ups to rage about, but wont even admit fault when they jump the gun....

Okay I'm going to admit I don't keep up with the f'ups as much so I can't really comment too much on this part. But I imagine this argument can be placed in every single facet of modern society...people just don't like to admit they screwed up. Who would imagine people like to play the blame game and try to save some amount of dignity even if they wind up losing more face in the end.

Sorry if I reiterated most of what you had already said but I just felt I had to agree.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

- Do you believe EA is harming the gaming business?
The gaming industry as a whole? No, there are plenty of other publishers and developers out there doing fantastically innovative stuff, not to mention the indie market that has grown through services like Kickstarter and Steam.

I think EA is harmful to whatever studios they buy and what game franchises they own, just through corporate meddling for profit they tend to have a knack for destroying any good IPs they inherit.


- Do you still buy games from EA?
Nope, simply because EA are not producing any games I would like. I kept up with the C&C franchise until Twilight came out. No base building - No thankyou!

I kept up with Medal of Honor until it went Modern and Middle Eastern and 6 hour campaignful. No thankyou!

I kept up with Bioware's KOTOR until it became a frustrating Pay2avoidmindnumbingrestrictions hotbar MMO. No Thankyou!

The last game I bought of EAs was probably C&C 3, which was passable, but nothing like the glory days of Red Alert 2.

 

[FFP2]

EA isn't really ruining gaming. Their company on the other hand, yes. As long as EA isn't the sole developer left I'm pretty sure the industry will be fine

Also, Origin isn't that bad. It's just like Steam. Minus the insane amount of blind fanboys of course.

 

[Vigormortis]

massive snip

Um....was there a reason you had quoted me in that post along side Draech?

I'm just curious. I thought it odd you simply just quoted my prior post but said nothing in response. Perhaps it was lost during the posting process?

 

[Subscriptism]

Yes-Only Bioware

They really are doing their best to run the games industry into the biggest attempt to fuck customers ever.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

As much as I hate EA I don't think they're destroying the gaming business, at least not on their own. I think most publisher's are destroying the gaming business. EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Square-Enix, Capcom, they're all guilty. As Jim Sterling said, they twish new and innovative ways of doing things to match old and archaic ways of doing things to the point of alienating their customers. On top of that there's the draconian DRM that we all hate. So yeah, EA on it's own is not destroying the gaming business, publishers in general are destroying the gaming business.

Also no, I don't buy EA games anymore, but due to financial situation I'm not buying many games at all right now.

 

[Casper Thostrup]

Well destroying is a big word, but you are right in some regrets as seen that they make quiet good money of sequels and don't really show how video games should be made, with that I mean really go deep in the game and give every thing 'life' with this is don't mean good Graphics but a good storyline, 3D characters, and really 'feel' the game. That for I think that EA has done quiet somethings wrong and If they really want to become indie:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/conferences/e3-2012/9670-E3-EA-Wants-to-Be-Indie

They should stop making sequels and start making original new ideas, and DON'T make Battlefield 4, and also shouldn't have made Crysis 3 unless this will be the 'finish of' of the serries.

 

[Bocaj2000]

I'm gonna derail this a little bit. You know who has amazing business practices? Good Old Games! The have the sales of Steam with DRM free games!

EA isn't destroying the game industry. They are just a corporation acting like a corporation. And, yes, corporations are more interested in profit than anything else. However, by trying to squeeze every last drop out of customers through DRM, day one DLC, and micro transactions, all they are doing is encouraging piracy. When it is more convenient to pirate a game than to buy it, then the distributor has failed. With the piracy, I get past the DRM through a simple crack; with day one DLC, I get a crack for that as well; etc. While most of you may think that this is how it will always be- pirates vs. corporation- I actually disagree.

I will once again bring up GOG. I buy a game for $2 on one of their sales. Now, because I have infinite downloads, I can play in on any computer I want and even show my friends by downloading it on their computer. It is the equivalent to lending your friend a game. It is so convenient that piracy is a hassle in comparison, not to mention that most of the games on GOG are indie, so you'll be supporting small businesses. There are good businesses out there, but for some reason we ignore them.

The problem with the industry really is that the only games that "gamers" care about are the AAA budget games. Indie devs are the future of gaming if we allow it. They are the ones who attempt to revolutionize, experiment, take risks, and care about customers. Yet, as a subculture, "gamers" brush off the indie games as "other" with little regard to how that affects the industry. AAA devs tend to to very shitty things for the sake of profit, but you don't have to put up with it if you don't want to. If you don't like a business practice but still want the game then don't buy it; play it if you can, but please don't buy it. It's that easy.

 

[NortherWolf]

Oh your doctorate in revised history seems to be paying off Dex. Write to me again when you get over your correlation = causation and you pulling stuff out your ass without standing up. Any argument that isn't shouted by a mob holding a torch doesn't exist in your book it seems.

And you go ahead and continue blindly defending one of the worst and most damaging gaming companies in existence that are mainly out to screw you out of as much money as possible and give you as little as they can while in the meantime eroding your consumer rights. One of these days I'm sure they'll reward you for your valiant dedication and give you a gold star or something. xD

Pigeon holing again?

Well its nice to see I was right and you never change.

Considering you jump onto every chance to defend EA like it's Jesus baby brother, you can't really fault someone for trying to hit you on the head with old facts in hopes of you getting them?

EA isn't ruining the industry. They are participating in it's eventual demise. But not alone. However, a telling sign of how shitty they are is that their fans either have to ignore their flaws. "No, Origin is super good! SUPER GOOD BECAUSE I HAVE AN ANECDOTAL STORY ABOUT A FRIEND OF MINE WHO WAS TREATED POORLY BY STEAM CUSTOMER SERVICE!" or "I like this game! Stop being mean!". Oooor, they have to do the "Well other companies are even worse! Like...Enron!"
Amusingly enough I've never met anyone trying to defend, say, Activision, like that.