EA CEO: We Failed Well

Super Toast

Supreme Overlord of the Basement
Dec 10, 2009
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AndyFromMonday said:
The way EA ruined the Mass Effect and Dragon Age franchises was just marvelous. I'm guessing "embracing failure" means buying good studios and turning their games into abominations of what they used to be.
Your milage may vary on that. I thought Dragon Age II was a great game. It wasn't as good as Origins, and it could've used a bit more polish, but still. And I thought Mass Effect 2 was fantastic.

OT: It would be nice if they used this newfound knowledge in a way that would benefit the consumer.
 

The Human Torch

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Sep 12, 2010
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Agayek said:
First off, "I could care less" implies that you do in fact care. "I couldn't care less" is the saying you're looking for methinks. Sorry 'bout the grammar-nazi schtick but that one bugs the hell out of me for whatever reason.

Second, "quality" is not a subjective measure. There are purely objective metrics over the quality of everything in existence. Whether or not it's "good", meaning enjoyable/workable, is subjective, yes, but "quality" is a completely separate beast.

Brief synopsis of "quality" metrics in literature (as I'm unqualified to do so for movies and don't want to put forth the effort to make a list for games):
-Plot - coherent, logical (in-universe, if nothing else), and concise
-Characters - distinct personalities and realistic, understandable behavior
-Prose - engaging and thought-provoking

If a work of literature meets these criteria, it's a high-quality piece of work, regardless of how well it sells or what people think about it. Similarly, if it does not, then it's a low-quality work, once more regardless of what people think about it.

People can like poor quality goods all day, and oftentimes they do. It doesn't mean anything bad, it just means a low-quality work appeals to their sensibilities.

Thus, sales does not equate with quality.
The "I could care less" part of my post was to let you know that I have no personal stake in Twilight. That I am subjective enough to recognize it's quality.
And I do care less.
And you are still wrong in my opinion. If I buy a bike, and it breaks in half simply because I sit on it, it's poor quality. If I buy another bike and it lasts me for 10 years without breaking down, then it's good quality. That's the kind of quality you can measure when it comes to an object.

The same would go for the quality of a book. Staying with the book example, if the pages would fall out, if the cover was made out of tissue paper and the glue had the same properties as silly putty, than you would have a low quality book.
Content-wise it's a different story, someone enjoys reading the story, than that's good quality to them.
 

The Human Torch

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Sep 12, 2010
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Calibretto said:
The Human Torch said:
Dense_Electric said:
fabiosooner said:
Sales say otherwise.
Sales do not equal quality.
But apparently your opinion does. Sales do equal quality. Just because you may not agree with a certain title, does not mean that it's not of proper quality.
DO THEY NOW?
Ok mr smarty pants ANALYSE THESE FIGURES AND TELL ME WHICH SOLD BETTER
I would like you tell everyone so I dont have to quote everyone in this thread individually about which sold better DA2 Or DAO
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/7236826/1
Thanks
Yes, fan-made sales charts are a reliable source of information. *cough*
 

Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
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The Human Torch said:
The "I could care less" part of my post was to let you know that I have no personal stake in Twilight. That I am subjective enough to recognize it's quality.
And I do care less.
And you are still wrong in my opinion. If I buy a bike, and it breaks in half simply because I sit on it, it's poor quality. If I buy another bike and it lasts me for 10 years without breaking down, then it's good quality. That's the kind of quality you can measure when it comes to an object.

The same would go for the quality of a book. Staying with the book example, if the pages would fall out, if the cover was made out of tissue paper and the glue had the same properties as silly putty, than you would have a low quality book.
Content-wise it's a different story, someone enjoys reading the story, than that's good quality to them.
I'm not really sure why you had to bother with the "could care less" thing then, it's basically irrelevant by your own admission.

Also, if you don't actually care about something (meaning apathetic, with no vested interest in it whatsoever), then you "couldn't care less". Saying you "could care less" literally means that you care about it, that you have some level of emotional investment in it. If you have no stake in something, you don't care about it, thus you could not care less.

Anyway, as you describe here, a book that falls apart is a poorly made book. I was discussing the quality of the content. And yes, you very much can measure this. Using the three categories I listed earlier:

-Plot - Events must follow logically. A sequence of random, unrelated events is a bad plot
-Characters - Similar to above, characters that consistently do things someone of their personality would never do are demonstrably low quality
-Prose - there are objective, fixed rules of language the prose must follow, or it is bad

These are objective, standard rules to measure the quality of a work of fiction. You literally cannot say these are in anyway subjective without outright lying.

As a point of example, I despise the book "To Kill A Mockingbird" with the burning passion of a billion fiery suns. If I had my way, every copy of that book ever made would be put to the torch, as it is an affront to good taste in just about all ways.

That does not mean it's a poorly-written or otherwise low quality book. Matter of fact, it's one of the highest quality works of fiction in the last century. My opinion of it does not change that fact.

The simple fact of the matter is that no matter how much you like or dislike something has absolutely no bearing on the quality of the piece. Could something you hate be high quality? Absolutely, just like something you love could be terrible. It won't change the fact that you dis-/like it though, and it shouldn't. If you like something, by all means love it to death. Your opinion does not change its quality though.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Calibretto said:
Vault101 said:
AndyFromMonday said:
The way EA ruined the Mass Effect and Dragon Age franchises was just marvelous. I'm guessing "embracing failure" means buying good studios and turning their games into abominations of what they used to be.
dragon age mabye

Mass effect?....FUCK NO!
I agree with this.
I wasn't to bothered with the changes in Mass Effect 2.
It wasn't trying to be the spiritual successor of anything.
Dragon Age 2 on the other hand....
in regards to DA2 (which I am yet to play) I think the only thing you could actually blame on EA is that it was rushed (which is what most people are saying) I didnt think EA messed with Bioware too much
 

Setch Dreskar

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Mar 28, 2011
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Calibretto said:
The Human Torch said:
Calibretto said:
The Human Torch said:
Dense_Electric said:
fabiosooner said:
Sales say otherwise.
Sales do not equal quality.
But apparently your opinion does. Sales do equal quality. Just because you may not agree with a certain title, does not mean that it's not of proper quality.
DO THEY NOW?
Ok mr smarty pants ANALYSE THESE FIGURES AND TELL ME WHICH SOLD BETTER
I would like you tell everyone so I dont have to quote everyone in this thread individually about which sold better DA2 Or DAO
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/7236826/1
Thanks
Yes, fan-made sales charts are a reliable source of information. *cough*
Im sorry did you miss the links that were given to where the information was sourced?
Well its ok * pat pat*
Ill save you the trouble from clicking the link again and then scrolling 5 cm down for you to see them.
http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/44010/dragon-age-ii/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/44012/dragon-age-ii/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/44011/dragon-age-ii/

Thankyou have a nice day.
Based on the website links provided, there is alot of missing data, specifically that it says on that Website that DA:O sold 0 copies on the PC in the US.

Now across the board we have:

-={Dragon Age 2}=-
PS3 = 724,530 Units

PC = 532,380 Units

Xbox 360 = 1,419,860 Units

Total = 2,676,770 Units

-={Dragon Age: origins}=- (Up to week 10 of launch same as DA2's numbers)
PS3 = 1,342,460 Units

PC = 489,040 Units (Using their data)

Xbox 360 = 2,781,150 Units

Total = 4,612,650 Units


Now this is data based on Week 10 to Week 10 sales, as Dragon Age Origins price drop more and more units are being sold of it, as will be the case with Dragon Age 2. But I see a couple problems with the data, they are all too even so this looks more like a rough estimate of each sale on eace platform, and there is missing data especially considering Steam sales are not taken into account, as confirmed by the operators of Steam, and the US sales are missing for PC DA:O.

Ok now Dragon Age 2 has sold over half of Dragon Age: Origins at the same launch week time, hitting 2,676,770 Units which makes it a huge success for an RPG (Or Action RPG) launch. I am not sure of the development time for DA:O but when we consider DA2's development time was 10 months, or 11 if we say setting up production and manufacturing only took 1 month, then DA2 did amazingly well.

2.6 Million units is not something to blow off especially considering some of EA's other titles that, while they are still released, have yet to even push the 2 million mark. In a way you are correct Dragon Age 2 isn't doing as well as Origins but what the company is going to look at is for an extremely rapid dev cycle it works, it cut down their costs and made roughly as much revenue within the same time span.

Also of note, flame baiting to make yourself sound better is not the way to have a discussion.
 

Bobbity

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Mar 17, 2010
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If you take a look at DA2's sales, they're shockingly bad - presumably because of word of mouth. Hopefully this is another lesson that EA can learn, in that you have to actually put effort into some games; the Madden approach doesn't work universally. :p

Calibretto said:
Setch Dreskar said:
Dragon Age 2 initially based its sales on the greatness of its predecessor.
I for one will never buy another Bioware game after Dragon Age 2.
Alot of people will never PREORDER another Bioware game without waiting for the reviews and information about it.
Unless you had your head in sand the internet community started a huge flame war about the changes in Dragon Age 2.
Alot of people were unimpressed with the changes.
For acrosss the board Im count just over 1.5 million sales ( not including digital) so I dont know where you got 2.6 million from.
To be fair, the studios producing DA, ME and TOR are all different parts of Bioware; that one is terrible doesn't necessarily reflect badly on the other two. Most of Bioware's brightest have been working on TOR for the last couple of years, so it's understandable that the quality of ME - in terms of writing, RPGiness, etc. - might go downhill a little, but I don't think that anyone saw DA2 coming. :p

I actually have really high hopes for TOR at the moment, because it has Bioware's best working on it. That said, it'll be interesting to see how well they adapt to MMOs, as opposed to their traditional and much more polished single player games.
 

Setch Dreskar

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Mar 28, 2011
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Calibretto said:
Setch Dreskar said:
Dragon Age 2 initially based its sales on the greatness of its predecessor.
I for one will never buy another Bioware game after Dragon Age 2.
Alot of people will never PREORDER another Bioware game without waiting for the reviews and information about it.
Unless you had your head in sand the internet community started a huge flame war about the changes in Dragon Age 2.
Alot of people were unimpressed with the changes.
For acrosss the board Im count just over 1.5 million sales ( not including digital) so I dont know where you got 2.6 million from.
I did make a derp I basically doubled the sales on both DA:O and DA2 because I added all three lines within each of the subsets (PS3, PC, 360) which is silly as Worldwide was the adding of the 2 subsets being EMEAA and US which is a simple thing to correct for.

-={Dragon Age 2}=- [FIXED]
PS3 = 362,260 Units

PC = 266,190 Units

Xbox 360 = 709,880 Units

Total = 1,338,260 Units

-={Dragon Age: origins}=- (Up to week 10 of launch same as DA2's numbers) [FIXED]
PS3 = 671,230 Units

PC = 244,520 Units (Using their data)

Xbox 360 = 1,390,000 Units

Total = 2,305,750 Units

Now again for a niche market, which sadly is what RPG's are, having sold half as well for I would assume at least half the dev process of Origins is very good, I would be more inclined to think DA:O took either 3 or 4 times as long to make but if someone has the knowledge on how many years DA:O took to make please post it.

Again flame baiting gets you nowhere.
 

The Lugz

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Apr 23, 2011
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200k units for pc, that's a depressingly low number it's really no wonder were being slowly abandoned for the consoles