EA Gave BioWare "Complete Creative Control"

PuckFuppet

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Jan 10, 2009
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People still think ME3 had anything significant to do with EA's previous win? The timing was coincidental yes but EA had already been nominated and moved up the ladder before ME3 was even released.

Them spinning this into a backlash exclusively as a result of the ME3 fiasco is probably the greatest PR move they could make, totally insulates their shockingly poor employee treatment, crazy salaries for executives and torpedoing of competition.
 

Karadalis

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FoolKiller said:
Probably the catch is that DLC, microtransactions and such are not considered to fall under the umbrella of "creative control" in EA's viewpoint.
Precisely...

"Creative freedom" means didly squat because lets face it... kept for mass effect 3s ending the stories that Bioware has been telling where excellent or atleast above average.

Even DA2 had a somewhat above standard story.

But thats it... the freedom to write the story as you want means nothing if EA dictates every other aspect of the game and sets unrealistic deadlines.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Amaror said:
I wonder how much money EA paid him to say that.
Kind of a surprise how he says that RIGHT after Ea is named Worst company of America, isn't it?
Pretty much my thoughts. Not to mention you notice that the third entry in the EA/Bioware triumverate of suck wasn't even mentioned... that being "Old Republic Online". Of course that involves a lot of touchy issues, but ones that prove EA meddling. A good example of this would be the whole LGBT issue with the game where Bioware, who has created such characters in the past when they felt it worked, said they had no plans to include them in TOR, EA pretty much stepped in and forced the issue to avoid the complaints they were getting, forcing Bioware to include them in it's first expansion under creative duress, and leading to a lot of the constant "where are our space gays?" whining that plagued the game. It's a direct example of EA meddling with Bioware's creative process, whatever your position on the issue itself. Then you have the whole situation where EA apparently didn't like what Bioware some of what Bioware was doing with TOR, and whether the problems were as deep as implied by "EA Louse" or not, the bottom line is they pretty much crammed Mythic into Bioware's design process, a company which despite some early success with "Dark Age Of Camelot" pretty much ruined EA's last big MMO project... WAR (Warhammer Age Of Reckoning).

As a result this is definatly a PR move, especially given it's timing, and I doubt the endorsement was free.

One also can look at information from the "behind the scenes" app released about ME3 to see some of what happened there and the thoughts/influance on the design process. Ditto for the way how Bioware pretty much went from developing largely stat based RPGs into more of an action game producers who include cinematics and conversation branches under EA's management, their development style just happening to change radically when they are picked up by a company largely known for it's action games in today's market, and trying to shoehorn everything into that demographic. "Dragon Age 2" kind of failed because people loved the first one, and wanted more of the same, just with more depth and stuff added, "Dragon Age 2" represented an entirely differant style of game with the name "Dragon Age 2" splayed on it.

Then there are also side issues like how under EA's control, we saw Bioware caught trying to shill their products to boost metacritic ratings (in response to Dragon Age 2), we had the entire "Hawke" incident where Bioware asked people if it was okay to remove most of the character generation options people would expect, like racial selection, in exchange for having him fully voice acting, to which the community said pretty firmly "no, we don't want that" followed by Bioware not only doing it anyway, but claiming it's what the community wanted by way of marketing promotion. Oh and on top of this a very EA-like attitude towards the fans where a big gesture was made about ignoring what people who complained wanted to aay "OMG, the forums turned toxic based on what we've been doing, I just avoid that". That's a very EA-like attitude when it comes to consumer relations and customer service when you get down to it.

The point here being that I'm not buying this statement, and on top of it there is a lot that isn't addressed.
 

Lieju

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Jan 4, 2009
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Milk said:
I have no strong feelings one way or the other regarding this announcement however I do find it strange that Bioware willingly went from

[Dragon Age:Origins]"A spiritual successor to the Baldur's Gate series ... We wan't combat to be complex tactical. Like a game of chess".

To this:

[Dragon Age 2]"WHEN YOU PUSH A BUTTON SOMETHING AWESOME SHOULD HAPPEN. BUTTON. AWESOME."
The problem with the combat in DA2 wasn't really that the combat was more flashy, or even that it was more fast-paced, it was that there just wasn't all that much options, spells and attacks.

Which obviously is a result from the short development-time. The decisions made in DA2 that a lot of people hated (the simplified combat, repetitive environments) were made because they had to cut corners.
 

StashAugustine

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Jan 21, 2012
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I do blame EA for rushing out stuff and possibly demanding higher sales, but honestly it's not that hard to see how this goes. They make their big-name MMO, stick their vets on it, and put some new guys in charge of DA and ME. The new guys think they're all that cause they're Bioware and they're the best in the business, they try to use their budget to sell it to the more casual marker, and they don't pull it off because they're not ready for prime time, they're rushed, and they're trying to mix stuff that doesn't go well together without serious skill. Meanwhile TOR goes way overbudget and releases at a time where everyone's just sick of Star Wars and MMO's.
 

Atmos Duality

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Mypetmonkey said:
Ahhh the Escapist forum....

Dr Z could tell you that the sky was blue and the grass is green and you'd all still call him a liar.

I mean surely your knowledge from your lounge/job at KFC/shoe store clerk experience vastly surpasses the guy that created a company then sold it and then worked at the company he sold it too...

/slowclap internets!
Appeal to Authority and Poisoning the Well Fallacies.
/slowclap indeed
 

CaptainKoala

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May 23, 2010
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faefrost said:
ROFL!!!

look I am normally a reasonable individual, perfectly willing to look at both sides of a story, and to give developers and publishers the benefit of the doubt. I will often play Devil's Advocate in their defense. But I'm sorry, I am also capable of applying independent observation to a situation.

In this case it is very easy to see the change in the nature and caliber of Bioware's games that began as soon as they were aquired by EA. They may say that they were given a free hand, and I am sure in many ways they were. But ALL of the games that they have put out since have the unmistakable feel of rushed development, early release, poor QC, and a certain patern of corporate oversight that we have seen far to often in EA acquired companies.

Since being bought out Bioware has released DA2, SWTOR and ME3. And the problems with all of them are quite frankly nearly identical. And they all clearly reek of a company that while they may have had full control of the games content, gameplay and stories, had lost final control on funding decisions, development schedules and release schedules. And the problem is mirrored almost completely in virtually every well known development house that EA has borg'ed. Mythic and WAR anybody? How about what happened to Origin back in the day? The list goes on and on. Yes EA may have left the creative decisions intact. But they started doing the accounting. In some cases that might have been an understandable decision, but the end result is we end up with games who are primarily driven by corporate accountants and MBA's rather than actual creative people. And it shows with every single one of EA's games released in the past 10-12 years.
I think there's a way to meet in the middle here.

What if technically this guy is right and EA didn't influence the creative process at all, but what they did do to affect development was their notoriously fast paced schedules that forced devs to cut corners and be a bit sloppier than they otherwise would have been?
 

Da Orky Man

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Apr 24, 2011
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A few points to make here.

First, do they really want us to know that? All they're doing now is trying to shift blame onto themselves.
Also, companies acquired by EA often say this, or something close to it, but there is always a shift in how the company works, usually for the better. EA must be doing something...
 

Vykrel

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Feb 26, 2009
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i will accept that the ending was Bioware's fault, entirely... but there is no way it wasnt EA's idea to include on-disc DLC. and it was probably thanks to them that the game shipped probably a year before it should have. ME3 was not finished, in my opinion.

im willing to bet that it was also EA that wanted Jessica Chobot in the game.
 

starhaven

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Jan 24, 2010
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HalloHerrNoob said:
Yeah...everyone is crying again about how evil EA is and how they would never buy a game from bioware again.....
Well, here are my thought:
-Dragon age 1 was good, DA 2 was better (and before you ask, yes Ive played every BW game and my favorite is Planscape, so eff you if you think I am some CoD-casual gamer)
- ME 1 was boring, 2 was great, 3 just didnt really grabbed me and I never finished it

So, all in all I am still looking forward for DA3!
And please...male Jade Empire 2!

god yes. jade empire. it was my first bioware game. i fell in love with bioware at that point and started hunting doiwn their other games and following there new releases.
 

WarpZone

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Da Orky Man said:
A few points to make here.

First, do they really want us to know that? All they're doing now is trying to shift blame onto themselves.
Also, companies acquired by EA often say this, or something close to it, but there is always a shift in how the company works, usually for the better. EA must be doing something...
Headline should read "Developer throws self under bus to protect EA moneybags," with the tagline "Gesture largely counterproductive."

Also, if EA's losing money in this racket so badly, why are devs rushing to defend them? By definition if they've got no money, they can't fund games, right?
 

duchaked

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Dec 25, 2008
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ThriKreen said:
duchaked said:
doesn't explain why ME3 had the EA mandatory MP bit lol
don't get me wrong I actually quite enjoyed the co-op experience there since it played into the bigger picture of the campaign (props to BioWare for that one) but still
Cuz maybe the people working on it had plans for multiplayer since the first incarnation and finally got a chance to implement it in a meaningful way rather than have it feel tacked on with shallow deathmatch style gameplay?
mm possibly. but forced or not, I agree that it was incredibly well implemented. a shallow TDM mode would've just hurt it
 

Woodsey

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As far as I'm concerned, they've been on an upward swing. DA2 was pants and so was SWTOR, but fuck me, Mass Effect 3 was great.
 

Epona

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Woodsey said:
As far as I'm concerned, they've been on an upward swing. DA2 was pants and so was SWTOR, but fuck me, Mass Effect 3 was great.

One highly controversial game is an upward swing?

Anyway, I never understood all this love for Bioware. Aside from KOTOR they weren't ever that great and I attribute the greatness of KOTOR to it's license. When they did their own space RPG (Mass Effect) it was mediocre.

I also don't think EA was hands off either. Maybe they weren't that overbearing but they were there making decisions.
 

Woodsey

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Crono1973 said:
Woodsey said:
As far as I'm concerned, they've been on an upward swing. DA2 was pants and so was SWTOR, but fuck me, Mass Effect 3 was great.

One highly controversial game is an upward swing?
It wasn't controversial to me. That's why, as far as I'm concerned, they've been on an upward swing. Certainly not a spirally descent.
 

Epona

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Woodsey said:
Crono1973 said:
Woodsey said:
As far as I'm concerned, they've been on an upward swing. DA2 was pants and so was SWTOR, but fuck me, Mass Effect 3 was great.

One highly controversial game is an upward swing?
It wasn't controversial to me. That's why, as far as I'm concerned, they've been on an upward swing. Certainly not a spirally descent.
I think it was a controversial game and that was a fact, not an opinion. I don't think it's worth arguing about though.

I still think that it takes more than one game to create a pattern. Maybe you don't see upward swing as a pattern though.
 

Woodsey

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Crono1973 said:
Woodsey said:
Crono1973 said:
Woodsey said:
As far as I'm concerned, they've been on an upward swing. DA2 was pants and so was SWTOR, but fuck me, Mass Effect 3 was great.

One highly controversial game is an upward swing?
It wasn't controversial to me. That's why, as far as I'm concerned, they've been on an upward swing. Certainly not a spirally descent.
I think it was a controversial game and that was a fact, not an opinion. I don't think it's worth arguing about though.

I still think that it take more than one game to create a pattern. Maybe you don't see upward swing as a pattern though.
It was controversial to and for other people. It was not controversial to or for me. I had no problem with the ending that was anywhere near large enough to shit myself over. Other people's controversies, born of other people's opinions, have no influence on my own thoughts. So there's really no need to take it into account when I say that I think they're back on track.