EA Hosting Panel on Homophobia in Gaming

[RicoADF]

I... really don't get it. Either I'm blind to blatant homophobia in games or it's so little it's pratically not there. The gamers themselves I can see because, well, every other word I hear is a gay slur.

I agree, wtf are they going on about? Really, who cares which way your inclined when your gaming, as long as you don't shoot me in the back it makes no difference who you are :S.

TBH I get angry at groups like GLAAD that make a big deal about being gay, black, white, male, female etc, all it does is point out someone thats different and just adds to the or creates the hatred when there was none to begin with. TBH I find groups like that insulting.

 

[squid5580]

Spoken like a bunch of teenage, mostly-suburban heterosexual white males.

Fixed that for ya.

wait, suburban? what does that have to do with it?

EDIT: also, as an ex-teenage, suburban, heterosexual white male, i can't help but feel slightly offended.

Being a hetrosexual white male means you aren't allowed to get offended when someone generalizes us like that. Sorry mate. Dem are da rules.

Maybe the fact that you are allowed to walk down the street holding hands with a white woman without fear of being attacked will compensate for the overwhelming bigotry you apparently face.

I really hate to be the reality check type person but I have never met anyone who didn't face some sort of bigotry at some point in thier lives for some stupid reason. i face it all the time due to the fact I have long hair.

 

[cobra_ky]

I will find my salvation, but we'll see who is burning in Hell at the end of it all.

All right, you hooked me.
That better not be a religious remark about the reasoning behind your hateful attitude for homosexuals. As a Christian, and layman theologian, I'll totally throw hands as to how you're way off.

Unless you aren't Christian, in which case you just like to write terrible cliche lines of imagery at the end of ignorant posts.
Kinda emo.

No, that isn't why I hate gays. While I am Christian, our beliefs do not tell us to hate the gays.

Yeah, they do. There are multiple Bible verses.
Leviticus 18:22 explains my point perfectly. I'm Catholic and I don't think there's a problem with homosexuality. To completely destroy your other theories: Homosexuality is not a mental disorder. Interests, sexual or not, are not disorders. That's like saying preferring Daikatana to Call of Duty is a mental disorder. It's not (although I can't explain how), but it's popular belief that people should like CoD over Daikatana. I really don't think you're looking at this rationally.

Leviticus 18:22 pretty much just says "don't have gay sex with men. it's an abomination." it says nothing about how one should treat other people who do have gay sex.

I... really don't get it. Either I'm blind to blatant homophobia in games or it's so little it's pratically not there. The gamers themselves I can see because, well, every other word I hear is a gay slur.

I agree, wtf are they going on about? Really, who cares which way your inclined when your gaming, as long as you don't shoot me in the back it makes no difference who you are :S.

TBH I get angry at groups like GLAAD that make a big deal about being gay, black, white, male, female etc, all it does is point out someone thats different and just adds to the or creates the hatred when there was none to begin with. TBH I find groups like that insulting.

i'm pretty sure people hated gays long before GLAAD ever existed.

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

EA, stop being so schizophrenic. One moment you're releasing sequel after sequel, the next you're actually doing something good for the gay community.

This makes no sense. How is that schizo? They aren't contradicting themselves or switching sides, so how is that schizo?

In other news, the gamers' alliance clamps down on the use of derogatory words implying mental illness: "retarded", "schizo", etc.

In the buggy-but-pretty-good RPG "Temple of Elemental Evil", you could actually marry a gay pirate called Bertram if you were playing a male character. Come to think of it, you can do this in a lot of RPGs.

Now if you were trying to make characters in games less needlessly misogynistic (one of the very many things that annoyed me about FPS crapfest F.E.A.R) then I'd agree.

What characters were (needlessly) misogynistic in FEAR?

Plus, "crapfest" seems a little strong. To me it's one of the best single player FPSs.

Crapfest might be strong, but not too much... it's SO boring. You can only carry three weapons (making things like the rocket launcher pretty much defunct, since there's only really one enemy that carries ammo for it). It's got programmed-in failure at various points. Your character has to do really really stupid things that you'd never ever do if you had a choice (like leaving the hostage in the elevator). There's hardly any variety in enemies, settings or missions. You never get to lead a team in single player mode, you're always on your own, yet it's advertised as a team game. The plot is idiotic. The final twist is nonsensical (considering you're playing anonymous grunt #26348, who cares who your parents are? And how are you supposed to have been "selected" for this particular mission given that your superiors obviously have no clue either?) All females in the game, including the hostage you're supposed to be rescuing, are referred to at least once as "*****" by the guys who are supposed to be on your side, which REALLY grated on me. I wouldn't talk like that and I don't know anybody who would. I don't believe for one second that members of a supposedly professional military unit would call the female hostage they were supposed to be escorting a "*****" over open mic. The characters are uniformly unlikeable or just unbelievable.

The difficulty is screwed... if you use "slow-mo" then it's impossible to lose, otherwise it's impossible to win. The "plot" points and the "action" points are separated so clearly that the apparitions aren't scary in the slightest after the second or third pops up (since you know that there's zero chance of you being attacked when they do). By this method it somehow manages the impressive feat of having you be attacked by ninjas and ghosts in near-darkness for the entire game without actually being scary ONCE. The combat is the same two or three scenarios repeated again and again and again with near-identical or actually identical enemies until it just gets incredibly boring. I could go on a lot longer, but I think I've made my point.

Good points? Well, some of the combat is ok and your character controls fairly well... that's pretty much it.

It's not a terrible game, but it's the worst by far that I've played on the PC recently.

 

[bug_chaser]

Spoken like a bunch of teenage, mostly-suburban heterosexual white males.

Fixed that for ya.

wait, suburban? what does that have to do with it?

EDIT: also, as an ex-teenage, suburban, heterosexual white male, i can't help but feel slightly offended.

Being a hetrosexual white male means you aren't allowed to get offended when someone generalizes us like that. Sorry mate. Dem are da rules.

Maybe the fact that you are allowed to walk down the street holding hands with a white woman without fear of being attacked will compensate for the overwhelming bigotry you apparently face.

I really hate to be the reality check type person but I have never met anyone who didn't face some sort of bigotry at some point in thier lives for some stupid reason. i face it all the time due to the fact I have long hair.

Fair 'nuff. But I sure hear "fag" and "jew" being tossed around as insults in WoW (don't play xbl) a lot more than I hear "longhair" and "hippie." In fact, I never hear "longhair" or "hippie."

More to the point, it took me about 15seconds to find a recent report of a man who was beaten to death for being gay: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Gay_teen_beaten_to_death_with_book_in_homophobic_attack&in_article_id=517656&in_page_id=34 . I'm pretty sure that even during the anti-Vietnam protests, men weren't getting beaten to death for having long hair-unless somebody thought they were gay.

Stating that we all face bigotry is true, but it is also disingenuous. We do not all fear for our lives when we walk down the street. The problem of anti-gay hatred is real, and EA is taking a positive step by addressing it.

 

[essieteric]

Forget it. I've tried, but I am tired of you people not being able to see the truth. being gay is a mental disease. It is a very common mental disease. It make you perceive something that goes against nature, and believe that it a truth.

Man + Woman = The way it is supposed to be.

Man + Man or Woman + Woman = Twisted version of the laws of nature.

This isn't just something that I had made up! It wasn't entirely too long ago that it was still on the books as a mental illness.

People who speak out against homosexuality are usually labeled "unenlightened", "out of touch", "intolerant", "bigots", and so forth. And, frankly, I'm sick of it. I say that I don't like gays, and I'm immediately a homophobe. People call me a redneck, and that I am not "Down with the times". Well, if this is where the times are going, then I'd rather not be part of them. First Obama gets elected, and now this shit is going on.

The world is going to Hell on the express line. It cough the red-eye with no layover, just so it could get there quicker. I will find my salvation, but we'll see who is burning in Hell at the end of it all.

And it wasn't so long ago that they treated hysteria with sexual gratification. There are medical breakthroughs all of the time, and one of them was to recognise that homosexuality is not a mental illness. This occurred in 1973.

"That Dude With A Face", I guess I am sorry that you are concerned with the "slippery slope" that our lives have been set upon by the Powers That Be. It is difficult to feel out of control of the things around you. Of course, these are your beliefs and I for one do not want to dissuade you from them if you are not comfortable being dissuaded. It is sad that you are so adamant to the point of hurting people around you with insults and claiming moral superiority.

I'm sorry that you seem to have confused yourself on the nature versus nuture debate. But I hope that you are able to sort it out for yourself though. There are some excellent resources around, even online, that you might be able to use to strengthen your argument next time, or might even help you debate with your beliefs even further. Good luck with finding them!

--------

My off-topic quotient is now up, so I leave it with this:

There are a lot of concerns from different people in the community about their representation in gaming. And the purpose of any good designer and marketer is two-fold - to design a good game, and to market it in a way to increase sales. By cutting out one section of their market (whether it be religious, moral, or gender identity), they take a risk that their game will not sell as well as what they want it to. Makes sense for them to have meetings regarding how they can cater their games to the GLBT population. More sales - spiffy!

Should we be a "special group"? No. And I wish that we weren't. We don't choose that, it is other people who have placed us in a little 'niche' that we cannot escape from. For as long as that doesn't change, people will have to get used to the fact that there will be these meetings, and these debates, about our place in many arenas. If you don't want the debates or the special treatment, stop elevating GLBT issues to such a drama.

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

I... really don't get it. Either I'm blind to blatant homophobia in games or it's so little it's pratically not there. The gamers themselves I can see because, well, every other word I hear is a gay slur.

I agree, wtf are they going on about? Really, who cares which way your inclined when your gaming, as long as you don't shoot me in the back it makes no difference who you are :S.

TBH I get angry at groups like GLAAD that make a big deal about being gay, black, white, male, female etc, all it does is point out someone thats different and just adds to the or creates the hatred when there was none to begin with. TBH I find groups like that insulting.

i'm pretty sure people hated gays long before GLAAD ever existed.

We wouldn't need to make a big deal about being gay if people who aren't gay didn't make such a big deal about it first. We don't spend all that time and energy and money organizing for the fun of it, we do it because we get denied the right to establish an official relationship with our life partners, we do it because we get harassed on the street, we do it because we get beaten up and killed. Believe me, even when we weren't making a big deal about this, other people were, the sort of big deal that gets you fired, arrested, and killed.

It's not like the bigotry is caused by the activism, and this can be proven by the fact that the bigotry occurred before the activism started, and if anything, it occurs worse where there is no activism.

In short, gay people will quit making such a big deal about being gay when straight people quit making such a big deal about being gay.

 

[squid5580]

Spoken like a bunch of teenage, mostly-suburban heterosexual white males.

Fixed that for ya.

wait, suburban? what does that have to do with it?

EDIT: also, as an ex-teenage, suburban, heterosexual white male, i can't help but feel slightly offended.

Being a hetrosexual white male means you aren't allowed to get offended when someone generalizes us like that. Sorry mate. Dem are da rules.

Maybe the fact that you are allowed to walk down the street holding hands with a white woman without fear of being attacked will compensate for the overwhelming bigotry you apparently face.

I really hate to be the reality check type person but I have never met anyone who didn't face some sort of bigotry at some point in thier lives for some stupid reason. i face it all the time due to the fact I have long hair.

Fair 'nuff. But I sure hear "fag" and "jew" being tossed around as insults in WoW (don't play xbl) a lot more than I hear "longhair" and "hippie." In fact, I never hear "longhair" or "hippie."

More to the point, it took me about 15seconds to find a recent report of a man who was beaten to death for being gay: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Gay_teen_beaten_to_death_with_book_in_homophobic_attack&in_article_id=517656&in_page_id=34 . I'm pretty sure that even during the anti-Vietnam protests, men weren't getting beaten to death for having long hair-unless somebody thought they were gay.

Stating that we all face bigotry is true, but it is also disingenuous. We do not all fear for our lives when we walk down the street. The problem of anti-gay hatred is real, and EA is taking a positive step by addressing it.

And my guess is if you spent those 15 seconds you could find a story about a HWM beaten to death walking down the street who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. And of course not everyone fears for thier lives walking down the street. Why? Because some of those people are the threats we fear. No minority has the market cornered on violence against them. Not today anyways. Although it is a much better story than your average white male getting killed by a thug while walkin home from work.

And I believe your article there is where the energy of these groups should be focused. Not on words that have dual meanings that some consider hurtful. Firt end the real violence then we can have a roundtable discussion about what can be done about the expression "that is so gay". Unless of coursew you believe that the stupid ad* was money well spent.

* The stupid ad I am refering to is a TV commercial I caught 1 Sat. morning during my weekly cartoon marathon. 3 females are in a store. 1 is a lesbian and she is playing the part of the cashier. 1 of the customers says "that is so gay". When they get to the cashier she says "that is so Emily".

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

Spoken like a bunch of teenage, mostly-suburban heterosexual white males.

Fixed that for ya.

wait, suburban? what does that have to do with it?

EDIT: also, as an ex-teenage, suburban, heterosexual white male, i can't help but feel slightly offended.

Being a hetrosexual white male means you aren't allowed to get offended when someone generalizes us like that. Sorry mate. Dem are da rules.

Maybe the fact that you are allowed to walk down the street holding hands with a white woman without fear of being attacked will compensate for the overwhelming bigotry you apparently face.

I really hate to be the reality check type person but I have never met anyone who didn't face some sort of bigotry at some point in thier lives for some stupid reason. i face it all the time due to the fact I have long hair.

Fair 'nuff. But I sure hear "fag" and "jew" being tossed around as insults in WoW (don't play xbl) a lot more than I hear "longhair" and "hippie." In fact, I never hear "longhair" or "hippie."

More to the point, it took me about 15seconds to find a recent report of a man who was beaten to death for being gay: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Gay_teen_beaten_to_death_with_book_in_homophobic_attack&in_article_id=517656&in_page_id=34 . I'm pretty sure that even during the anti-Vietnam protests, men weren't getting beaten to death for having long hair-unless somebody thought they were gay.

Stating that we all face bigotry is true, but it is also disingenuous. We do not all fear for our lives when we walk down the street. The problem of anti-gay hatred is real, and EA is taking a positive step by addressing it.

And my guess is if you spent those 15 seconds you could find a story about a HWM beaten to death walking down the street who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. And of course not everyone fears for thier lives walking down the street. Why? Because some of those people are the threats we fear. No minority has the market cornered on violence against them. Not today anyways. Although it is a much better story than your average white male getting killed by a thug while walkin home from work.

And I believe your article there is where the energy of these groups should be focused. Not on words that have dual meanings that some consider hurtful. Firt end the real violence then we can have a roundtable discussion about what can be done about the expression "that is so gay". Unless of coursew you believe that the stupid ad* was money well spent.

* The stupid ad I am refering to is a TV commercial I caught 1 Sat. morning during my weekly cartoon marathon. 3 females are in a store. 1 is a lesbian and she is playing the part of the cashier. 1 of the customers says "that is so gay". When they get to the cashier she says "that is so Emily".

The argument that anyone can be beaten to death for being in the wrong place and the wrong time doesn't work. Of course anyone can be beaten to death on the street, but gay people have that risk and then have the problem of gay-targeted violence added on top of that. If you are gay, there are a lot more wrong places and wrong times than there are if you are straight.

As for the "That's so gay," I think you have no idea how corrosive that phrase is to gay people. I'm no wilting flower, I don't go to bed torn with the heartache of it, but every time I hear it I grind my teeth a little, and believe me, my teeth are starting to get kinda worn down after all these years. It's a little thing but its a little thing that happens all. the. fucking. time. I am so, so done with it, and with the inherent idiocy of the usage. Allow me to translate this into what the person is actually saying: "This is something that displeases me in ways I lack the emotional awareness or vocabulary to actually express with any precision or meaning."

Though come to think of it, in a lot of cases, gayness is also something that displeases them in ways they lack the emotional awareness or vocabulary to actually express with any precision or meaning. So maybe it really is "totally gay" after all

I'm also wondering, how was the cashier identified as lesbian? Did she dress a particular way or have a pink triangle button on? I mean, if they all looked the same, how do you know. You seem to think that only gay people object to anti-gay language or discrimination. Or, y'know, just idiotic, vague expressions of generalized disapproval.

You can't end the violence without ending the attitudes that lead to the violence, and you can't counter the attitudes without countering how the manifest in people's behavior and speech. It's the little stuff that makes the big stuff possible. And besides, why should we end the violence first before tackling the language issue? Can't we do both and end them both at the same time?

As far as telling gay people how they should go about addressing the issues that affect them, I'm wondering what your background in activism is that you can prescribe for us the best way to go about it? I suspect that people who say "Go work on the violence first and then work on the little stuff" don't do it out of any understanding of the dynamics of activism, but rather to shove the problem off into some area that doesn't affect them. Sure, they tell me to go end the violence first, because they don't commit any violence so they can get back to ignoring the issue for a couple decades while I get that gaybashing thing taken care of. In the interim they get to continue with their chronic, low-level anti-gay behavior because as long as there is someone worse than them, they are OK.

 

[Lazzi]

People need to get over themselves, and unwind when playing a game, and here is a grand idea. Don't announce your gay on the internet! Then you wont get made fun of, because no o0ne would know!

And that will stop people randomly referring to others as "fags" and saying "That's so gay," will it?

Spoken like a bunch of teenage, mostly-suburban heterosexual white males.

Fixed that for ya.

I want a meeting for my teenage, mostly suburban, heterosexual white males and I to discuss this issue of being judged by people for being the only group that judges other people. I would also like a place where we can be safe from being judged for our judging of other people online.

HA! see what I did thar?

No one is calling said group (again, that I used to be a part of) the only ones who judge people. That'd just be silly. We were saying that to claim everything is fine and dandy and not worth the effort isn't all that practical when you have no frame of reference because it's a situation so unlike what you face in your everyday life.

You know it is funny about the "fag" and "that is so gay" is both fag and gay have different meanings as well as the derogatory ones implied. What I don't understand is why the homosexual community wants to own those words in the first place. Why would a homosexual person take offense to the word gay being used in that way if they are homosexual and not gay? Sure homosexual pride doesn't roll off the tongue like gay pride does but the bottom line is they are just words. Letters arranged in a specific order and the meaning is applied by the user.

I do understand how this matter is important and I do support it don't get me wrong. The problem I see is you could ban the word gay and fag from the earth but that is going to do nothing. The problem isn't the words it is the hearts and minds of people. And I am sorry but having this little pow wow is going to solve nothing. You can take the words but the feelings will still be there. In the real world, on the internet anywhere you go someone is gonna hate someone else for no good reason until someone finds the reset button and the planet starts again. And hopefully they will get it right next time.

Then what else could they do?

This is the best, or at least most vivid option they have.

No the best option they have is to keep everyone separated (see a couple posts up). Or everyone can remember back to kindergarten when they learned about how sticks and stones break bones but names will never hurt.

And yet words do hurt people.

 

[RicoADF]

i'm pretty sure people hated gays long before GLAAD ever existed.

correct, but in that case its increased the hatred, in other cases its contributed to it

 

[squid5580]

Spoken like a bunch of teenage, mostly-suburban heterosexual white males.

Fixed that for ya.

wait, suburban? what does that have to do with it?

EDIT: also, as an ex-teenage, suburban, heterosexual white male, i can't help but feel slightly offended.

Being a hetrosexual white male means you aren't allowed to get offended when someone generalizes us like that. Sorry mate. Dem are da rules.

Maybe the fact that you are allowed to walk down the street holding hands with a white woman without fear of being attacked will compensate for the overwhelming bigotry you apparently face.

I really hate to be the reality check type person but I have never met anyone who didn't face some sort of bigotry at some point in thier lives for some stupid reason. i face it all the time due to the fact I have long hair.

Fair 'nuff. But I sure hear "fag" and "jew" being tossed around as insults in WoW (don't play xbl) a lot more than I hear "longhair" and "hippie." In fact, I never hear "longhair" or "hippie."

More to the point, it took me about 15seconds to find a recent report of a man who was beaten to death for being gay: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Gay_teen_beaten_to_death_with_book_in_homophobic_attack&in_article_id=517656&in_page_id=34 . I'm pretty sure that even during the anti-Vietnam protests, men weren't getting beaten to death for having long hair-unless somebody thought they were gay.

Stating that we all face bigotry is true, but it is also disingenuous. We do not all fear for our lives when we walk down the street. The problem of anti-gay hatred is real, and EA is taking a positive step by addressing it.

And my guess is if you spent those 15 seconds you could find a story about a HWM beaten to death walking down the street who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. And of course not everyone fears for thier lives walking down the street. Why? Because some of those people are the threats we fear. No minority has the market cornered on violence against them. Not today anyways. Although it is a much better story than your average white male getting killed by a thug while walkin home from work.

And I believe your article there is where the energy of these groups should be focused. Not on words that have dual meanings that some consider hurtful. Firt end the real violence then we can have a roundtable discussion about what can be done about the expression "that is so gay". Unless of coursew you believe that the stupid ad* was money well spent.

* The stupid ad I am refering to is a TV commercial I caught 1 Sat. morning during my weekly cartoon marathon. 3 females are in a store. 1 is a lesbian and she is playing the part of the cashier. 1 of the customers says "that is so gay". When they get to the cashier she says "that is so Emily".

The argument that anyone can be beaten to death for being in the wrong place and the wrong time doesn't work. Of course anyone can be beaten to death on the street, but gay people have that risk and then have the problem of gay-targeted violence added on top of that. If you are gay, there are a lot more wrong places and wrong times than there are if you are straight.

As for the "That's so gay," I think you have no idea how corrosive that phrase is to gay people. I'm no wilting flower, I don't go to bed torn with the heartache of it, but every time I hear it I grind my teeth a little, and believe me, my teeth are starting to get kinda worn down after all these years. It's a little thing but its a little thing that happens all. the. fucking. time. I am so, so done with it, and with the inherent idiocy of the usage. Allow me to translate this into what the person is actually saying: "This is something that displeases me in ways I lack the emotional awareness or vocabulary to actually express with any precision or meaning."

Though come to think of it, in a lot of cases, gayness is also something that displeases them in ways they lack the emotional awareness or vocabulary to actually express with any precision or meaning. So maybe it really is "totally gay" after all

I'm also wondering, how was the cashier identified as lesbian? Did she dress a particular way or have a pink triangle button on? I mean, if they all looked the same, how do you know. You seem to think that only gay people object to anti-gay language or discrimination. Or, y'know, just idiotic, vague expressions of generalized disapproval.

You are right. That was my bad in assuming that she was a lesbian. My apologies.

This whole we are a target is a media knee jerk reaction tool. Like I said it is a far more interesting news article to say they were the target of gay bashing without knowing all the facts. That news article said nothing about what lead up to the attack. I am sorry but the attack was "allegedly launched after Alker discovered Mr Causer was gay" is not fact but it makes a much better news story, which gets more hits which equals more money. Anything could have happened before the attack. If the homosexual community was the only group targeted by violent crimes you would have a point. Are there any studies to prove that they are more likely to be targeted? No. Why? Because what the actual motivation behind these crimes may not be homosexual hate. A straight man beats and kills a homosexual male in an alley. Does that automatically make it a hate crime? No. The killer may not have even known the victim was gay. Could be a simple mugging gone bad. And you think it is only gay people who could become the target of a hate crime??? Seriously that is not an arguement. A white person can be the target of a black group who hate white people. Or vice versa. Or how about the terrorist who hate Americans? Nazis and Jewish people. And this kind of human behaviour is not something that just popped up when the homosexual community formed and collectively came out of the closet. Look in any history book. Anyone who is different than another group they try and kill each other. Sorry but a group of people not liking the group of people you are a part of doesn't make you special. It makes you human.

 

[squid5580]

People need to get over themselves, and unwind when playing a game, and here is a grand idea. Don't announce your gay on the internet! Then you wont get made fun of, because no o0ne would know!

And that will stop people randomly referring to others as "fags" and saying "That's so gay," will it?

Spoken like a bunch of teenage, mostly-suburban heterosexual white males.

Fixed that for ya.

I want a meeting for my teenage, mostly suburban, heterosexual white males and I to discuss this issue of being judged by people for being the only group that judges other people. I would also like a place where we can be safe from being judged for our judging of other people online.

HA! see what I did thar?

No one is calling said group (again, that I used to be a part of) the only ones who judge people. That'd just be silly. We were saying that to claim everything is fine and dandy and not worth the effort isn't all that practical when you have no frame of reference because it's a situation so unlike what you face in your everyday life.

You know it is funny about the "fag" and "that is so gay" is both fag and gay have different meanings as well as the derogatory ones implied. What I don't understand is why the homosexual community wants to own those words in the first place. Why would a homosexual person take offense to the word gay being used in that way if they are homosexual and not gay? Sure homosexual pride doesn't roll off the tongue like gay pride does but the bottom line is they are just words. Letters arranged in a specific order and the meaning is applied by the user.

I do understand how this matter is important and I do support it don't get me wrong. The problem I see is you could ban the word gay and fag from the earth but that is going to do nothing. The problem isn't the words it is the hearts and minds of people. And I am sorry but having this little pow wow is going to solve nothing. You can take the words but the feelings will still be there. In the real world, on the internet anywhere you go someone is gonna hate someone else for no good reason until someone finds the reset button and the planet starts again. And hopefully they will get it right next time.

Then what else could they do?

This is the best, or at least most vivid option they have.

No the best option they have is to keep everyone separated (see a couple posts up). Or everyone can remember back to kindergarten when they learned about how sticks and stones break bones but names will never hurt.

And yet words do hurt people.

Here allow me to demonstrate something I learned in kindergarten (which was many many moons ago and long before the phrase political correctness was even thought of)

Bully: "you are a fag"
Me: "funny I don't look like a bundle of sticks"

Bully: " You are so gay"
Me: "yes actually I am quite happy"

Bully: "you are queer"
Me: "yes I am a bit wierd"

Words are funny little things. They can mean one thing to one and something else to another. A homophobic jackass could say something as simple as "hi" to a homosexual person and it could mean "I am going to take you outside and lay the boots to you" to the person who said it and it would just mean a simple greeting to the person who heard it. Words aren't the problem with this or any other racial issue. It is the hate within the heart of Man that is the problem. And getting all worked up over the words without addressing the real issue is not going to solve anything.

 

[chronobreak]

I guess I should put in my profiles that I am a white male, and announce to everyone I'm playing with that I am in fact white, because this is important info in video games. Sounds pretty nuts, to me. And, if I did happen to get into a room of people that didn't like whites, well I guess I shouldn't have been spouting off at the mouth so much.

When I'm playing a game on XBL, I don't want your life story. I don't even care what your name is. I just want to buckle down and win. If you choose to open yourself up to criticism, in my opinion, you may not deserve it but shouldn't be ignorant that it is coming.

 

[squid5580]

The argument that anyone can be beaten to death for being in the wrong place and the wrong time doesn't work. Of course anyone can be beaten to death on the street, but gay people have that risk and then have the problem of gay-targeted violence added on top of that. If you are gay, there are a lot more wrong places and wrong times than there are if you are straight.

Anything could have happened before the attack. If the homosexual community was the only group targeted by violent crimes you would have a point. Are there any studies to prove that they are more likely to be targeted? No. Why? Because what the actual motivation behind these crimes may not be homosexual hate.

Not necessarily: maybe it's just that no one has done these studies--or that maybe none of us are aware of them. Do you have studies to prove the opposite?

A straight man beats and kills a homosexual male in an alley. Does that automatically make it a hate crime? No. The killer may not have even known the victim was gay. Could be a simple mugging gone bad.

Do you have any examples of hate crime laws that do not require the prosecution to prove that the killer knew the victim was gay? I think your concern is one already addressed by the law, whatever propaganda bigots like to feed us about what the law actually is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprendi_v._New_Jersey

And you think it is only gay people who could become the target of a hate crime??? Seriously that is not an arguement. A white person can be the target of a black group who hate white people. Or vice versa.

Why are you assuming that people who think there should be such a thing as hate crimes do not think they should apply anytime a person is targeted for being different?

Capping an emotional and polarizing trial, a Long Beach judge on Friday found nine black youths responsible for the beating of three white women during a Halloween melee in Bixby Knolls.

...

Lee also found that eight of the nine committed a hate crime

...

Deputy District Attorney Andrea Bouas, who prosecuted the case, said racial epithets yelled by members of the group acted as the battle cry that incited the attack, which was broken up by a good Samaritan a black man who testified during the trial.

http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_5095169

Ok I am going to adress this as best I can without the ability to break up the quotes like you (and everyone else but me) seems to have the ability to do.

Of course I don't have a study. Why? Because such a study would be about as possible as walking on the sun. Are you really going to trust the word of a racist to give you an honest answer to why they did it? And we sure can't scan thier brains while they are in the act, can we?

It doesn't matter if they are prosecuted as it being a hate crime. It was in reference to the whole "oh we are targeted more than others because we are who we are" which I think is a load. Anyone of us could be the victim of a violent crime no matter age, race, sexual preference, rich or poor unless someone has absolute proof that this is not correct. And I am not talking in a town or even a country sense but in a worldwide study.

Any violent crime is a hate crime. Doesn't matter to me if it white on white, black on black or homosexual on homosexual or it is all mixed up they are all hate crimes. There should not be a special sentence for KKK member who kills a black person vs a white man killing another white man. That just reeks of inequality.

 

[lacktheknack]

I will find my salvation, but we'll see who is burning in Hell at the end of it all.

All right, you hooked me.
That better not be a religious remark about the reasoning behind your hateful attitude for homosexuals. As a Christian, and layman theologian, I'll totally throw hands as to how you're way off.

Unless you aren't Christian, in which case you just like to write terrible cliche lines of imagery at the end of ignorant posts.
Kinda emo.

No, that isn't why I hate gays. While I am Christian, our beliefs do not tell us to hate the gays.

Yeah, they do. There are multiple Bible verses.
Leviticus 18:22 explains my point perfectly.

REFERENCES TO LEVITICUS WILL RESULT IN GLARING. Leviticus is more or less irrelevant to Christianity, they're old Jewish laws. It's more of a reference to New Testament- erm, references, or an interesting history lesson. Leviticus also states that we can't wear more than one clothing material at a time (looking for reference), but we don't give that a second glance, do we?