Nothing against the convention, but doesn't "gaymer" sound more like an insult hurled by a 5 year old playing Call of Duty?
EA Signs On to GaymerCon
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
This is great and all, but I think I can be forgiven for having convention fatigue. Also, it will take a lot of conditioning to make it where I don't double take at the mention of EA doing something that's not objectively evil.
This is a start though.
This is a start though.
Quite a PR move. Atleast they are doing it somewhat right.
But I still have no idea why this gaymercon exist. Why can't people just be gamers? Or even gay gamers?
Sometimes I swear it's only videogames that receive this gaymer/girl gamer separation thingy.
But I still have no idea why this gaymercon exist. Why can't people just be gamers? Or even gay gamers?
Sometimes I swear it's only videogames that receive this gaymer/girl gamer separation thingy.
First I'm just going to say good move on EA, regardless of their intentions. We need more of this.
Second, I'm going to make a couple of points about the "Is Gaymercon necessary?" topic:
1. I think the most important question some people in this thread need to ask themselves is: Does it have to be justified at all? Does the people behind this con need to come up with a justification for its existence beyond "we want to do it"? AT ALL? I personally think not. I think that even if Gaymercon was completely superfluous and unnecessary (which I personally believe is not the case) it would still be a good idea. And you guys do realize that there are, in fact, cons that cater to specific minorities in other fandoms, right? Geek Girl Con and Gaylaxicon come to mind. Also, do you guys realize how fucked up it is for people in a privileged group to ask people in a marginalized group to justify their having nice things of their own? The unfortunate implication being that if they can't justify their having nice things of their own then they shouldn't have nice things of their own.
2. There are, in fact, many reasons why this con should exist and is important. I personally believe the most important and relevant is that a lot of people wanted this to happen, which is proven by the fact that this con got the support it did from people. Also, safe spaces are really important and some people feel more comfortable among their own. A lot of us in the LGBT community don't feel we can truly be ourselves when surrounded by straight people. This is specially true for trans* folk. Also, this helps with visibility, a lack of which has always been a problem for the LGBT community and has been used both in the past and in the present to marginalize us. The fact that we're not a physically visible minority means that unless we make a racket people can act like we don't exist.
3. LGBT people are NOT a monolith: Not all people within the LGBT community have the same opinions and think the same way. This should really go without saying but it seems that some pople don't get it. You see, not all LGBT folk want to assimilate at all. Some within the LGBT community (and this is true for all minority groups) don't care or even want to be seen as normal and have no problem segregating. Some even actively oppose the idea of assimilation! Also, Gaymercon wasn't organized by "the gay community". It was organized by the people who organized gaymercon, and it got the support of individuals within the LGBT community. We're not an amourphous blob who thinks and acts as one.
4. Please stop concern trolling. It's annoying. Unless you belong to the LGBT community you have nothing to gain or lose from whether Gaymercon helps the cause of equality in the gaming community or not. So please stop telling us what we should and shouldn't do or how we should go about doing it, because it's really fucking annoying. It's like backseat driving, except worse.
Honestly, I'm not even sure why I was surprised by the negative reaction Gaymercon got from many people. This is what has happened to every marginalized group every time they try to carve spaces of their own. Every. Single. Time.
Second, I'm going to make a couple of points about the "Is Gaymercon necessary?" topic:
1. I think the most important question some people in this thread need to ask themselves is: Does it have to be justified at all? Does the people behind this con need to come up with a justification for its existence beyond "we want to do it"? AT ALL? I personally think not. I think that even if Gaymercon was completely superfluous and unnecessary (which I personally believe is not the case) it would still be a good idea. And you guys do realize that there are, in fact, cons that cater to specific minorities in other fandoms, right? Geek Girl Con and Gaylaxicon come to mind. Also, do you guys realize how fucked up it is for people in a privileged group to ask people in a marginalized group to justify their having nice things of their own? The unfortunate implication being that if they can't justify their having nice things of their own then they shouldn't have nice things of their own.
2. There are, in fact, many reasons why this con should exist and is important. I personally believe the most important and relevant is that a lot of people wanted this to happen, which is proven by the fact that this con got the support it did from people. Also, safe spaces are really important and some people feel more comfortable among their own. A lot of us in the LGBT community don't feel we can truly be ourselves when surrounded by straight people. This is specially true for trans* folk. Also, this helps with visibility, a lack of which has always been a problem for the LGBT community and has been used both in the past and in the present to marginalize us. The fact that we're not a physically visible minority means that unless we make a racket people can act like we don't exist.
3. LGBT people are NOT a monolith: Not all people within the LGBT community have the same opinions and think the same way. This should really go without saying but it seems that some pople don't get it. You see, not all LGBT folk want to assimilate at all. Some within the LGBT community (and this is true for all minority groups) don't care or even want to be seen as normal and have no problem segregating. Some even actively oppose the idea of assimilation! Also, Gaymercon wasn't organized by "the gay community". It was organized by the people who organized gaymercon, and it got the support of individuals within the LGBT community. We're not an amourphous blob who thinks and acts as one.
4. Please stop concern trolling. It's annoying. Unless you belong to the LGBT community you have nothing to gain or lose from whether Gaymercon helps the cause of equality in the gaming community or not. So please stop telling us what we should and shouldn't do or how we should go about doing it, because it's really fucking annoying. It's like backseat driving, except worse.
Honestly, I'm not even sure why I was surprised by the negative reaction Gaymercon got from many people. This is what has happened to every marginalized group every time they try to carve spaces of their own. Every. Single. Time.
Thats like saying being friends with a black person to prove you aren't racist is a good thing.Ympulse said:
EA can only hurt the movement, their past PR attempts to mislead the gay and lesbian community speaks for itself. For people that missed it or have short memories, EA started an online "petition" supporting gay and lesbian gamers, and then used a bot to populate the list making the entire petition worthless since even if real people signed it, the presence of EAs bots ruined any authenticity it had and in the end made the whole subject look bad, all in the name of PR.
The road to hell may be paved with good intentions, but doing good things in the name of evil gets you the ride there in a shuttle bus.
So what if EA is the spawn of Satan and could only be doing it for publicity. It's still a nice thing.
Are you going to flame Backstreet Boys for digging a freshwater well for an African village just for publicity?
Insincere support is bad. But it's better than no support. And my analogies are always awful.
Are you going to flame Backstreet Boys for digging a freshwater well for an African village just for publicity?
Insincere support is bad. But it's better than no support. And my analogies are always awful.
This. EA may be the scourge of the gaming world, but credit where credits due; they're doing a good thing here, regardless of whether it's a PR stunt or not.theflyingpeanut said:
Plus, I missed that bit on the Xbox Live team. Irony is a wonderful thing.
Nobody said that GaymerCon shouldn't be done and organizers should be slowly killed.ninten766 said:
Only that GaymerCon seems unnecessary and motivations behind it are unclear.
We don't need to make homo/transsexual version of everything.
What we really need is to increase tolerance (from both sides) when it comes to sexual preferences.
You're welcome to attend this convention, but in a long run it will do more harm than good.
I could say the opposite in a manner and say that at conventions I've been to there has been little for gay people. If there's a niche in the market then there is nothing wrong with filling that niche. The fact they have been so successful in funding and support shows there is a gap in the market. That is just the argument from a purely business stance.nodlimax said:
Those things are not mutually exclusive. They WILL be talking about games and geeky things, and they'll be talking about gay issues in geek culture too. You can talk about both.
That really got to me you know. In parts of the world you will be IMPRISONED OR EXECUTED for being gay. It's the law, and even where it's not it can still happen. My ex was beaten up in the street in broad daylight by a group of grown men because her and her girlfriend were walking along holding hands. This wasn't in Iran, or Alabama, but in a sleepy little town in Northern England in 2012. One of her friends was forced to flee her country, leaving her family and successful career behind, because she was going to go to prison for being gay.Oh and about the beeing "normal" thing. Beeing normal is so overrated. "Normal" people behave like sheep without personality. They don't want to stick out of the croud. They're boring. Accept and embrace that you're not normal.....
Since when is gaming considered to be normal? The media and politicians target gamers all the time (violence, hygene, social stuff and so on). If you want to be normal, stop playing games.
I don't know you, or what your life has been like, maybe you've just caught me in a grouchy mood, but please don't go comparing the stigma of playing videogames to the treatment of gay people. Ever. Because you don't know what you're talking about.
Here's a good article by Jim Sterling that says better than I can why this convention is a good thing. http://www.destructoid.com/the-importance-of-a-gay-gamer-convention-232467.phtml
At the end of the day if you don't like it then don't go. I can't go because I live too far away, but I threw $15 into the Kickstarter, and they're sending me some cool stickers
You know what, this stupid problem will most likely solve itself over time anyway.
Some people will attend this convention because they wanna see what this is about and over the next years when people simply get bored or annoyed talking about this stuff this convention will vanish anyway.
I for my part will simply ignore it. If you wanna go, go and have fun. I don't have a problem with that.
In my opinion it's still a stupid idea to have a convention specially made for gay gamers.
Some people will attend this convention because they wanna see what this is about and over the next years when people simply get bored or annoyed talking about this stuff this convention will vanish anyway.
I for my part will simply ignore it. If you wanna go, go and have fun. I don't have a problem with that.
In my opinion it's still a stupid idea to have a convention specially made for gay gamers.
Well this is good news. Especially for gaymercon but the fact that EA finally got some thinking people in their PR division is also nice. Now only if they put someone like that on customer support I would start buying their games again! I like their games, but the shit to go through to get and play them is just not forth it for me. Yet.
I know that everyone is allowed to attend, but it still is focusing on gay gamers, and making us out to be something a bit different, even if it is supposed to be a positive message. As I said, there is a time and place, but sadly, it isn't just that time yet, at least I don't feel like it is. I could be wrong, it might actually be helpful, but I just don't see this really helping the LGBT community further its cause. Maybe I'm just pessamistic, and I hope that it turns out for the best, but I don't see it really breaking boundaries.VinLAURiA said:
That is awesome but considering the amount of burning (and not very well justified) rage some people have towards EA one can only hope the gain outweighs the cost...
I took umbrage to your first point. You took a sentence and twisted it to suit your need to feel like a victim.latenightapplepie said:
Disgusting. You are the bigot and the fool you hate if you truly believe being a male heterosexual grants me ANY privilege above any other person. There is no special club with member benefits that comes with it. Guess what, we all get the shit end of the stick in life sometimes.latenightapplepie said:
The issue with having your own "special" con and parade is this: You wish to fit in by standing out. You are your own enemy. If you want to be considered normal, stop trying to make yourself out to be a special snowflake. No one should have special privileges unless they need them to function in society, such as the disabled. You expect special treatment for being "different." It is YOU who is demanding to be treated differently. Do you understand why you are your worst enemy?
You judge all heterosexual males as a group and you cry when you are treated as such. In a perfect world we wouldn't judge people by what group they fall in to, but rather by each person's individual values. THIS is what we should be striving for. But you are going along with the group mentality because it is the easy answer. Why do you have to judge me by my skin color and sexuality if you hate it happening to you so much? Do unto others, anyone?
I see in your profile that you live in Australia as well. Unless you live in some bogan infested part of the country, I highly doubt you have had to deal with bigotry unless you were that flamboyantly annoying kid in high school. You also have NO RIGHT to complain about losing your job for your sexuality in this country. We have Fair Workplace Agreements for a reason. Hell, I work in a lab with several gay people. If you lost your job in the past due to your sexuality, you may want to speak with your lawyer.
Oh sure thing, just cut out the context of the quote, you aren't trying to play victim here at all. Let me quote myself again.latenightapplepie said:
The point of what I said is, you can handle the situation like a grown adult or you can draw attention to yourself like a 14 year old who draws attention to himself on XBox Live. No one likes that kid on XBox Live. Stop being him.VanQQisH said:
I don't think you understand the word "privilege" in the sense that I'm using it. Perhaps I should have used "heterosexism" or "heteronormativity". Whatever.VanQQisH said:
In any case, what I describe exists: straight guys have it better off.
1. I can play a gay or straight fictional character on television or film without a negative response from viewers.
2. I feel comfortable holding hands with my partner in public.
3. As a child growing up I am presented with figures of my orientation, in cartoons, children's book, and family movies.
4. As a child it is assumed that I will grow up to be heterosexual (Homosexuals must "become" gay and "come out of the closet").
5. When it comes to information about safer sex and sexual health I do not have great difficulty finding that information, particularly in an educational setting.
6. I can feel comfortable talking about my sexual practices with the majority of my peers.
7. Growing up I have an ample supply of role models I can look up to.
8. Even if I am part of a social minority group (specifically ethnic or religious) I will have role models of my orientation to look up to.
9. My orientation is accepted by all mainstream religions and all governments.
10. My relationship is recognized and rewarded by all mainstream religions and governments.
11. I can find adult entertainment on television for me to watch which features my orientation.
12. My assumed sexual practices as a heterosexual are accepted by society.
13. I don't have trouble finding people like me to hang-out with.
14. Whenever someone meets me in public they assume I am heterosexual.
15. If am I ever brought up in the media there is never an issue with my orientation.
16. Historical figures of my orientation never have their orientation neglected, omitted, or disputed from their historical legacy.
17. My heterosexuality is not an aspect of my life, or a lifestyle, just a fact about myself.
18. Whenever I go out in public I can be sure that I am not the only person of my orientation.
19. I will not feel stupid if I assume someone is of my orientation, even if they are not.
20. In public I feel safe as the majority.
21. I can assume that I will not be assaulted because of my sexuality.
22. People will not make fun or ridicule me because of my sexual orientation.
23. I know that when the mainstream media makes reference to men or women, they are referring to men and women of my orientation, unless specifically mentioned as homosexual men and women.
24. I can turn on the television or open the pages of any mainstream newspaper and see my orientation represented in a positive light.
25. I know when people of my orientation are rewarded it is not because of their sexual orientation.
26. I can be sure that children of my orientation will be given curricular materials of their orientation.
27. I can be sure people of my orientation do not have to worry about heterophobia in society.
28. I know that children and teens of my orientation will have teachers that will be tolerable and accepting of their orientation, as well as employers, doctors, etc.
29. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my orientation.
30. I am not expected to be a representation of my orientation.
31. If I declare that there is sexual orientation prejudicial situation at hand my orientation will lend me more creditability than a person of one of the other orientations.
32. I can choose to ignore the writings or materials of people of other sexual orientations, and there be no negative consequences.
33. I can worry about homophobia and not be seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
34. If my day, week, or year is going badly I don't have to wonder if it is so because of issues relating to my orientation.
35. I can think over many options: social, political, imaginative, or professional, without wondering whether or not a person of my orientation will be accepted, or even allowed.
36. I can be open about my sexuality on the Internet (Myspace, Facebook, or other social networking sites; or other things online) and not worry about any possible repercussions.
37. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical assistance my orientation will not work against me.
38. I will never experience of social rejection, such as a fraternity, social club, or family, because of my orientation.
39. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to reflect my orientation, in a positive light.
40. I can safely display my affection for my partner or openly speak about my sexual orientation wherever I travel.
41. I don't have to tailor my travel plans to consider my orientation.
42. My orientation is not topic or discussion for politicians.
43. I will never have to specifically seek out heterosexual establishments to be around others like me.
44. I will never have my heterosexuality used for a reason not to feel comfortable living with me, being on an athletic team, or being assigned to the same group project for a class assignment.
45. I will never have to think about how my orientation will affect me while I am in school.
46. I do not have to explain how or why I am heterosexual, or when I realized that I was.
47. I can display photos of my partners on my desk without fear or embarrassment.
48. People do not assume that I am experienced in sex, because of my sexual orientation.
49. People do not ask me why I made my choice to be public about my sexual orientation.
50. I am not accused of being abused, warped or psychologically confused because of my sexual orientation; and thus a potential danger to others.
51. I did not grow up with games that attack my sexual orientation (i.e., Fag Tag or Smear the Queer).
52. I am never asked to speak for everyone who is heterosexual.
2. I feel comfortable holding hands with my partner in public.
3. As a child growing up I am presented with figures of my orientation, in cartoons, children's book, and family movies.
4. As a child it is assumed that I will grow up to be heterosexual (Homosexuals must "become" gay and "come out of the closet").
5. When it comes to information about safer sex and sexual health I do not have great difficulty finding that information, particularly in an educational setting.
6. I can feel comfortable talking about my sexual practices with the majority of my peers.
7. Growing up I have an ample supply of role models I can look up to.
8. Even if I am part of a social minority group (specifically ethnic or religious) I will have role models of my orientation to look up to.
9. My orientation is accepted by all mainstream religions and all governments.
10. My relationship is recognized and rewarded by all mainstream religions and governments.
11. I can find adult entertainment on television for me to watch which features my orientation.
12. My assumed sexual practices as a heterosexual are accepted by society.
13. I don't have trouble finding people like me to hang-out with.
14. Whenever someone meets me in public they assume I am heterosexual.
15. If am I ever brought up in the media there is never an issue with my orientation.
16. Historical figures of my orientation never have their orientation neglected, omitted, or disputed from their historical legacy.
17. My heterosexuality is not an aspect of my life, or a lifestyle, just a fact about myself.
18. Whenever I go out in public I can be sure that I am not the only person of my orientation.
19. I will not feel stupid if I assume someone is of my orientation, even if they are not.
20. In public I feel safe as the majority.
21. I can assume that I will not be assaulted because of my sexuality.
22. People will not make fun or ridicule me because of my sexual orientation.
23. I know that when the mainstream media makes reference to men or women, they are referring to men and women of my orientation, unless specifically mentioned as homosexual men and women.
24. I can turn on the television or open the pages of any mainstream newspaper and see my orientation represented in a positive light.
25. I know when people of my orientation are rewarded it is not because of their sexual orientation.
26. I can be sure that children of my orientation will be given curricular materials of their orientation.
27. I can be sure people of my orientation do not have to worry about heterophobia in society.
28. I know that children and teens of my orientation will have teachers that will be tolerable and accepting of their orientation, as well as employers, doctors, etc.
29. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my orientation.
30. I am not expected to be a representation of my orientation.
31. If I declare that there is sexual orientation prejudicial situation at hand my orientation will lend me more creditability than a person of one of the other orientations.
32. I can choose to ignore the writings or materials of people of other sexual orientations, and there be no negative consequences.
33. I can worry about homophobia and not be seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
34. If my day, week, or year is going badly I don't have to wonder if it is so because of issues relating to my orientation.
35. I can think over many options: social, political, imaginative, or professional, without wondering whether or not a person of my orientation will be accepted, or even allowed.
36. I can be open about my sexuality on the Internet (Myspace, Facebook, or other social networking sites; or other things online) and not worry about any possible repercussions.
37. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical assistance my orientation will not work against me.
38. I will never experience of social rejection, such as a fraternity, social club, or family, because of my orientation.
39. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to reflect my orientation, in a positive light.
40. I can safely display my affection for my partner or openly speak about my sexual orientation wherever I travel.
41. I don't have to tailor my travel plans to consider my orientation.
42. My orientation is not topic or discussion for politicians.
43. I will never have to specifically seek out heterosexual establishments to be around others like me.
44. I will never have my heterosexuality used for a reason not to feel comfortable living with me, being on an athletic team, or being assigned to the same group project for a class assignment.
45. I will never have to think about how my orientation will affect me while I am in school.
46. I do not have to explain how or why I am heterosexual, or when I realized that I was.
47. I can display photos of my partners on my desk without fear or embarrassment.
48. People do not assume that I am experienced in sex, because of my sexual orientation.
49. People do not ask me why I made my choice to be public about my sexual orientation.
50. I am not accused of being abused, warped or psychologically confused because of my sexual orientation; and thus a potential danger to others.
51. I did not grow up with games that attack my sexual orientation (i.e., Fag Tag or Smear the Queer).
52. I am never asked to speak for everyone who is heterosexual.
It's like that "bigotry" that you reference, except it's more insidious, invisible and deeply-entrenched.
None of this is anyone's fault. I'm not blaming or hating on straight people, I was simply identifying your way of thinking as being from the straight majority. I'm certainly not going to call anyone a bigot unless they really deserve it.
So yeah, that's my argument: LGBT people should be able to have conventions, parades, bars/clubs whatever, so we can enjoy some of those "privileges" for just a little while, that you have all the time. We aren't asking to be treated differently, we're just trying to be treated equally, and sometimes that requires going it alone.
Ugh. this is why I seriously wonder why I'm bothering to respond to you at all.
Am I the only person wondering about the logistics of such a convention?
I mean gay people aren't that really that big of a demographic, we make up about roughly 10-15% of the U.S. population and that's being generous with the statistics. Factor in that gay gamers are a sub-set of a larger "geek" culture that is itself a minority group, as in gay gamers are a minority of a minority. I mean even though it's taking place in San Francisco are enough gay people gonna show up to make it worth it? And besides that problem there is a possibility, however unlikely, that more straight people might show up to the convention for whatever reason than gay people. That kinda ruins the whole idea of gay people having their own con to feel comfortable as a community if they are outnumbered there just like in any other con.
So the question is not about whether the social/political purpose of the convention is a good idea, but whether or not enough of the targeted demographic is actually gonna show up to make the project even feasible as an successful convention.
I mean gay people aren't that really that big of a demographic, we make up about roughly 10-15% of the U.S. population and that's being generous with the statistics. Factor in that gay gamers are a sub-set of a larger "geek" culture that is itself a minority group, as in gay gamers are a minority of a minority. I mean even though it's taking place in San Francisco are enough gay people gonna show up to make it worth it? And besides that problem there is a possibility, however unlikely, that more straight people might show up to the convention for whatever reason than gay people. That kinda ruins the whole idea of gay people having their own con to feel comfortable as a community if they are outnumbered there just like in any other con.
So the question is not about whether the social/political purpose of the convention is a good idea, but whether or not enough of the targeted demographic is actually gonna show up to make the project even feasible as an successful convention.
See EA?! This is how you build good public image! Actions speak louder than words!
Now how about firing your PR team next?
Now how about firing your PR team next?
yeah personally it's a little bit crazy they're having a whole convention thing for this, but hey just cuz I don't throw my support behind something (or may be against the notion of it) doesn't mean I'm raving mad with hatred (just thought I'd throw that in there in case people get irrationally upset)blackrave said:
and yeah people online, be it Xbox Live or other it's not an exclusive club, are pretty inclusive in what they hate on so I wouldn't take it to heart lol