Nutcase said:
Depth in a game means there is more to the game after you have learned the surface; it is not easily exhausted; you can keep getting better and better at it. Replacing the game with a simpler game is to remove the depth.
Perhaps, but there is a very fine line bwteeen the kind of depth you describe and impenetrability for complete newbies. And what if someone wanted to pick up and play a game, experience all of it, and then stop? Sure, if you discover that you want to hone your skills, you can switch to a normal mode, but if you just want a bit of high quality entertainment? And, I hasten to add, high quality and accessiblity are should
not be mutually exclusive.
And why do these people not start from a simpler game which has a lower number of main elements to keep track of, such as Doom? Such as Serious Sam?
Yes, they could do this. Or why not have a normal game with a mode that serves as a constant gradual introduction? With hints/help/etc as intrusive as you want them to be? I know games have tutorial modes. Whny not extend the experience to the whole game, perhaps becoming proigressively less obtrusive as the player gains in skill, but always there without having to go check a guide/forum/wiki on the best way to do something? I also know that this is, development-wise, a practical impossibility at the moment. But it's an interesting concept, I think.
This is 100% wrong. It is not exactly the same game when you have eviscerated the complexity, the pacing and the difficulty; it's a different game sharing the graphics and sound of game #1.
Is it always? I apreciate that some games would lend themselves to this kind of thing more than others, but implementing a rookie mode doesn't have to detract from the story, the graphics, the sound, the mechanics or the pace - it just has provide these elements in a context supportive to new players, who are there to have a good time. I don't happen to think of compulsory difficulty and impenetrability are particularly attractive traits in a game. They should be there if you want them, in a Hard Mode. And for new people, these thresholds may be lower, so you might want a rookie mode.
I do not want idiot games for anyone. I want people to play simple, easy - but non-coddling - good games. Knowing they surpassed whatever limited challenge in there still gives them a genuine sense of achievement and opens up more challenging games. I don't want them to play a watered down parody of a good game, be even more confused by all the training wheel functionality piled on top, and get the plot/environment/etc of the real game spoiled for them in case they'd like to play it at some point.
First of all, a 'rookie' mode doesn't have to coddle you. It just has to give you a leg up a bit more often, or a few more suggestions. Secondly, how does Cooking Mama prepare you for Gears of War? You have to play a lot of games before you can literally just pick up any game and play it. Wouldn't it be nice for new people not to have to go through all the 'preparatory' games, if they just want to play a big new title? Thirdly, wouldn't you ge the same sense of achievement, if you wanted it, from playing rookie to get into the thing, then going and beating every other mode? What if the player isn't doing it for a Sense Of Achievement, but rather wants to play a game, fight all the bosses, and live to see the end credits without getting bogged down in the annoyingly difficult sections that inevitably exist in every game. And that's not to say a rookie mode should present no challenge whatsoever, it should simply not present head+wall frustration.
If you aspire to be better than you are now, you are an elitist. If you prefer the opinion of someone who knows what they are talking about, instead of one who knows nothing, you are an elitist. You can either be elitist, or stupid.
Oh dear! Extreme polarity of opinion isn't a good sign either...perhaps what you say about elitism is true. Another thing that's true of elitists is that they take the same view that you do here - that everyone who is not like them is a lesser being. Which is just bad.
What you and Susan are rooting for is the equivalent of a publisher including a Simple English and pictorial translation into every poetry book so that everyone can "experience" the poetry without being able to read, or a brewery offering their award-winning strong-tasting bitter mixed with tasteless lager so that everyone can "experience" the bitter despite not being able to handle its taste.
That's actually hiding the experience from the newbies, not a shortcut to it, and fundamentally newbie-hostile.
Snappy soundbite...but it's wrong. You're not hiding anything from anyone. If you select 'rookie' mode from a screen that also lists, say, 'Average', 'Tricky' and 'Chaos', you know exactly what you're doing, and that there are other ways to experience the game - which, if you feel so inclined, you can go and play through. There need be no ambiguity. However, if you're totally new, and you select 'Normal' and get completely blown out of the water, you can go back and give yourself an easier, probably more entertaining and enjoyable time by playing Rookie first. And tell me, who didn't start in life with illustrated books?
