Eidos Outsourced Those Deux Ex: HR Boss Fights
- Thread starter Earnest Cavalli
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Their idea of balancing it was to play through with different guns.
/sigh
Well, that explains quite a bit.
/sigh
Well, that explains quite a bit.
This just in, Eidos Montreal learns what "passing the buck" means!
Even if it was outsourced they should have made it clear what the fight should have and told them to design a non-violent path as well as any other necessary styles. Its an extra few liens of details, its not hard.
Even if it was outsourced they should have made it clear what the fight should have and told them to design a non-violent path as well as any other necessary styles. Its an extra few liens of details, its not hard.
He doesn't even try to hide the fact that they shoehorned a paint by numbers boss fight scheme into a game that he knew nothing about until approached with the job, he just talks it up like what he's done isn't exactly the same as every other cookie cutter fps boss fight. What a tool.
Can we please get a patch to undo these boss fights and dlc to remake them into something playable?
Can we please get a patch to undo these boss fights and dlc to remake them into something playable?
Upgraded Typhoon takes care of all the boss fights with ease even on "Give Me Deus Ex". It's cheap: only three praxis points in total. I don't really see what's the big deal. Give the guys a break, they made an excellent game that did the original justice.
What's kind of sad is that the boss fights are actually so close to being interesting.. I found Jaron's fight in particular very atmospheric, although stupidly tough if you make one bad decision earlier in the game. It actually had me shooting at anything that moved at one point. However, the main problem is that all the bosses (except the last one, which I'd only tenuously call a boss fight at all and is actually the best of the bunch to the extent that sections of it reward stealth and hacking ability) are far too mobile and aggressive considering how brutal and quick most of the combat in Human Revolution is.
Also, although I'd hesitate to call it anything but an accident, having the right stealth augmentations does make the latter two fights a lot easier. Mark and track, anyone?
However, we really don't know the full story. It may be that originally Jensen was meant to be a lot more resilient and that even non-combat characters would be able to run around exchanging fire with these man-tanks much more freely. That could have been fun, and wouldn't necessarily have even been terribly frustrating, unless you wanted a non-lethal approach to every fight. But the way it was set up, the Tyrants did kind of need to die.
Speaking of them as a story element, they also needed to be much better integrated and explained in the game so we knew who the fuck they were. They do actually have interesting backstories (Jaron in particular), and for fuck's sake Gunther Hermann was one, merely knowing that would have given them a lot more context within the franchise as a whole. But all of these things only appear in a background novel, why the hell isn't it in the game itself? I understand a blacks ops unit is meant to be secret, but part of playing a Deus Ex game is meant to be uncovering secrets like that. This in particular is where the passing the buck to the guy who did the tech falls down, the failure to integrate them with the wider concept and story was what made the boss fights feel tacked on and unnecessary, and that was definitely Eidos' responsibility.
Also, although I'd hesitate to call it anything but an accident, having the right stealth augmentations does make the latter two fights a lot easier. Mark and track, anyone?
However, we really don't know the full story. It may be that originally Jensen was meant to be a lot more resilient and that even non-combat characters would be able to run around exchanging fire with these man-tanks much more freely. That could have been fun, and wouldn't necessarily have even been terribly frustrating, unless you wanted a non-lethal approach to every fight. But the way it was set up, the Tyrants did kind of need to die.
Speaking of them as a story element, they also needed to be much better integrated and explained in the game so we knew who the fuck they were. They do actually have interesting backstories (Jaron in particular), and for fuck's sake Gunther Hermann was one, merely knowing that would have given them a lot more context within the franchise as a whole. But all of these things only appear in a background novel, why the hell isn't it in the game itself? I understand a blacks ops unit is meant to be secret, but part of playing a Deus Ex game is meant to be uncovering secrets like that. This in particular is where the passing the buck to the guy who did the tech falls down, the failure to integrate them with the wider concept and story was what made the boss fights feel tacked on and unnecessary, and that was definitely Eidos' responsibility.
Characters aren't complex because of 70-80 nodes.
He says they tried it with different guns trying to make it fun, but doesn't understand, what if you didn't have a powerful gun? What if you were the master of stealth, hacking and Q?
He says they tried it with different guns trying to make it fun, but doesn't understand, what if you didn't have a powerful gun? What if you were the master of stealth, hacking and Q?
Hell. No. They took me a LONG time to finish. Primarily because I had a stealth build and had almost no fire power. It also didn't help that my game glitched out at the end of the final boss (Jensen got stuck to a piece of cover while the enemies showered him with bullets) and had to start it all over. In the end I had to tone down the difficulty every time I encountered a boss and I didn't get the achievement for finishing the game on the Deus Ex difficulty. It does not matter even if the boss battles are "short". After reloading a game for the 20th time you really get to the point where you're almost ready to throw the game in the bin.sravankb said:
The company I work for outsources to a few companies to keep costs down. When the subcontractors fuck up, it's still our fault. I don't blame Grip for not knowing the source material. I blame Eidos for not hiring someone who knows the source material.
I don't know what this guy could do because it seems like he was really out of the loop.
But this is Eidos fault since they just gave it to a guy out of the loop.
Here is how boss fights can improve
1) combat: no comment
2) Stealth: let the player pop in and out like a Predator. Make the enemy have some kind of vision cone.
3) Hacking: disable some enemy weapons, turn on friendly turrets, get special weapons, let the player change the environment, cause boss to "short out" for a second every once in a while.
4) conversation: convince flunky to change environment/ get the boss in a better environment. Convince flunkies to give you weapons, find secret passages, etc. Be able to convince some bosses to surrender when they are low on health (also a way to not have to kill every enemy in the game.) Sprout out custom short speeches that enrage/frighten/overestimate/underestimate the player which changes their AI for a time.
But this is Eidos fault since they just gave it to a guy out of the loop.
Here is how boss fights can improve
1) combat: no comment
2) Stealth: let the player pop in and out like a Predator. Make the enemy have some kind of vision cone.
3) Hacking: disable some enemy weapons, turn on friendly turrets, get special weapons, let the player change the environment, cause boss to "short out" for a second every once in a while.
4) conversation: convince flunky to change environment/ get the boss in a better environment. Convince flunkies to give you weapons, find secret passages, etc. Be able to convince some bosses to surrender when they are low on health (also a way to not have to kill every enemy in the game.) Sprout out custom short speeches that enrage/frighten/overestimate/underestimate the player which changes their AI for a time.
This.sravankb said:
Honestly. Even Jaron Namir is easy to beat if you know how. Barrett was a cakewalk if you remember to use all the cannisters and grenades to your advantage, and all Federova requires is that you reember to pack a heavy rifle and your oldschool circle-strafing skills.
So I'm not terribly far, but I liked what boss battles I've been a part of. I'm playing through the game trying to "Ghost" each area, and when I reached Barret, yeah- I got hung up. But maybe because I've played Metal Gear games, I accepted that there was conflict in front of me, and that this game was so multilayered as to have it and play good enough to allow it.
I've had fun. The boss fights don't deserve the bad press.
I've had fun. The boss fights don't deserve the bad press.
Those fights were...well I figured out the strategy and it was less than a boss fight. It was less than a stealth encounter with 4 guards. It was pitiful. Even on Hard mode, the exact same strategy worked flawlessly.
I don't care if I can't be stealthy, I'll deal, if I can't enjoy a boss fight, that's a different story.
I don't care if I can't be stealthy, I'll deal, if I can't enjoy a boss fight, that's a different story.
gotta agree on the easy-mode, i played a fair few games on easy-mode then realized what a bad thing i was doing cheating myself out of a difficult play through that made me immerse myself and really think what i should domidij19 said:
ive set the difficulty to max on every game since my ps2, because if i don't then i haven't really played it have i ? i just looked at pretty pictures and pressed buttons
gotta agree on the easy-mode, i played a fair few games on easy-mode then realized what a bad thing i was doing cheating myself out of a difficult play through that made me immerse myself and really think what i should domidij19 said:
ive set the difficulty to max on every game since my ps2, because if i don't then i haven't really played it have i ? i just looked at pretty pictures and pressed buttons
While I've yet to play the game myself, I believe this would be the main reason why the boss fights alledgedly suck. You can't have an immersive, well-thought-out bossfight if some other company just got the tech details to work it out and do it. Eidos remains responsibly for the slip-up, seeing as it was their job to (at the very least) provide them with additional information to flesh out the boss-characters, or (even better) to actually integrate the bossfights themselves into the main story line, thus obliging them to introduce the bosses earlier on, etc, etc, etc...Earnest Cavalli said:
TL;DR-version: it's still Eidos' fault, not the subcontractor's. (Do correct me if I'm wrong. Everything I've posted here is based on the reviews I've seen so far.)
