Election results discussion thread (and sadly the inevitable aftermath)

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Silvanus

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Is what what the lawsuit says?
No, it was in an interview with (IIRC) Fox Business. If you were just talking about what they're trying to do through the courts, then yeah, nobody has legally requested an entire state's votes thrown out.

Though in court they have requested thousands of valid ballots thrown out alongside the supposedly fraudulent ones.
 

SilentPony

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Your knowledge of the legal system seems to hover between "watched Law & Order a few times" and "sat through a mock trial once."
See I would have gone with Ace Attorney were you have to prove someone else is guilty to prove your client in innocent. You know a completely laughable and backwards way of practicing law, and certainly not the American system.
The dude actually wanted the Governor of Pennsylvania to supply evidence there wasn't voter fraud, as if the burden on proof is on them and not the Trump team, which to restate, has brought forth no evidence.
 

Houseman

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See I would have gone with Ace Attorney were you have to prove someone else is guilty to prove your client in innocent. You know a completely laughable and backwards way of practicing law, and certainly not the American system.
It's supposed to be light mockery of the Japanese system, even though the game is "set in America"

 

Silvanus

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Well there you go.
...I mean, Obsidian originally described the approach as "If you found a hint of one bad apple, destroy the tree as long as it's a variety of apple of which we do not approve".

The "tree" needn't be the entire election. It could be, say, 600,000 mail-in votes in a certain state or county. The Republicans have argued for throwing out hundreds of thousands of votes, the vast majority of which will be valid (the tree), on the basis of a few speculated fraudulent ones (the "bad" apples). Just because they haven't generalised that approach to the entire country doesn't mean it's not a fair description of their approach.
 

Houseman

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It could be, say, 600,000 mail-in votes in a certain state or county.
I agree this is what they're trying to do.

There is no alternative, since the chain-of-custody was allegedly broken, the envelopes were allegedly shredded, and it's impossible to determine whether or not the votes are valid, and the votes never were determined to be valid.

If you don't want your mystery ballots thrown out, maybe have a more secure election?
 

ObsidianJones

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...I mean, Obsidian originally described the approach as "If you found a hint of one bad apple, destroy the tree as long as it's a variety of apple of which we do not approve".

The "tree" needn't be the entire election. It could be, say, 600,000 mail-in votes in a certain state or county. The Republicans have argued for throwing out hundreds of thousands of votes, the vast majority of which will be valid (the tree), on the basis of a few speculated fraudulent ones (the "bad" apples). Just because they haven't generalised that approach to the entire country doesn't mean it's not a fair description of their approach.
Once again, I had to open up the ignored content to see what you were talking about (since my name was mentioned) and then I had to open up the original reference point.

Hat's off to you for sticking in there. But you're trying to reason with a man who just did this.

I couldn't like this any more if I tried.

This is the M.O. of the Republican Party as long as I can remember. If you found a hint of one bad apple, destroy the tree as long as it's a variety of apple of which we do not approve.

The police department does not get to arrest everyone in an apartment building because they found that one tenant is a killer.

The Entire Hospital staff does not get written up for view from the accidental overdose death of one or even ten patients.

We don't ban Christianity even though this country has seen more Christian White Supremacy Terrorists than we have ever seen of any other culture or religion put together.

But hundreds of thousands of votes must be purged because I heard something from someone who told me "Yo, check this shit out, those leftist are at it again!!!".

Republicans do fraud.


Four votes. Millions must be undone to right the wrong of the 2016 election.

Republican voted twice on behest of a poll worker. Toss out North Carolina and give it to the Dems.


The projection is draining because it's the same ole story with nothing new to add.
Nobody is (currently) trying to throw out ALL the votes just because some people voted fradulently. They're trying to throw out the fraudulent votes.
Making up lies makes you just as bad as you claim they are
If anyone can point out where I said that the Republicans are trying to throw out all the votes, it would be very enlightening to me.

I made analogies, and I spoke in hyperbole. But no matter what, I never said all. I'm sure if I would ever take him off of ignore, he would go ahead and try to point out how any of my analogies or hyperbole meets his definition of 'all'. Hell, possibly the tree thing as "Well, what did you mean by tossing out the tree"?

The tree doesn't represent all apples in the world. The orchard that houses the tree doesn't represent all apples in the world. ALL apples represents all apples in the world.

Or Hell, I said North Carolina. But isn't that what Trump's legal team is trying to do?




All efforts to toss out these states in favor for Trump. I made a hyperbole, Trump is literally paying people to do what I said mockingly.

And it's so, so telling that Trump never thinks any vote for him could be a mistake. Very telling how his focus is always in Democratic counties because of how backwards they all must be, and a Republican can never had made a mistake so all the Republican counties stand as an example of voting integrity...

Safeguard your sanity, Silvanus. There are much bigger battles to fight to get tired on these sidebar skirmishes.
 

Houseman

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Houseman: This is about avoiding disenfranchising voters!

Also Houseman: They have to throw out 600 thousand votes because they might be bad.


....That sounds like a fastrack to disenfranchised voters to me.
"Unless you count all of my multiple, fraudulent votes, you're disenfranchising me!"

Also:
 

crimson5pheonix

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"Unless you count all of my multiple, fraudulent votes, you're disenfranchising me!"
Like, that's not even what your hucksters are showing. Even if their claims are 100% accurate, they aren't showing or even suggesting that there are copies of votes. They're relying on bureaucratic litigation, but haven't shown anything other than one person, one vote. They're just upset that homeless people voted. And don't know how mail in votes work. If they succeed, they will quite literally be disenfranchising people. Further, they're focused on certain districts, so they can't even say they're being principled in following the law, they're just trying to change the outcome of the election by taking votes away from people.
 

Elijin

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"Unless you count all of my multiple, fraudulent votes, you're disenfranchising me!"
So you're asserting that those 600 thousand votes are all fraudulent then?

That no legitimate votes will be cast out in that purge?

That it won't create a precedent that even if you vote, your vote might be discarded through no fault or action of your own.

Because that's how you create disenfranchisement in this situation. By discarding over half a million votes, with no hard evidence they were fraudulent.
 

Silvanus

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I agree this is what they're trying to do.

There is no alternative, since the chain-of-custody was allegedly broken, the envelopes were allegedly shredded, and it's impossible to determine whether or not the votes are valid, and the votes never were determined to be valid.

If you don't want your mystery ballots thrown out, maybe have a more secure election?
Thank goodness the courts have already disagreed with this principle.

But even if they hadn't disagreed with the principle, the claims of the chain of custody being broken have also been comprehensively rejected by pretty much everybody with actual experience of the process. They said Republican poll-watchers weren't there at all, then had to admit in court that they were. They said they had evidence of fraudulent ballots to present, and then failed to present it to court. State officials-- including Republicans-- have consistently attested that the rules were followed as usual.

This is an attempt to disenfranchise 600,000 on the basis of speculation, without a shred of actual proof presented.

"People can't have a different opinion to me about how the last 4 years have gone, so it must be a conspiracy!"
 

Revnak

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Translation-
“Biden won a state Trump won in 2016 and Obama did in 2008. Also, lots more people voted this election.”
That’s literally all this says. This is exactly what one would expect to see with those conditions. Nothing about this is weird.
 

ObsidianJones

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Translation-
“Biden won a state Trump won in 2016 and Obama did in 2008. Also, lots more people voted this election.”
That’s literally all this says. This is exactly what one would expect to see with those conditions. Nothing about this is weird.

Enthusiasm among blacks and Democrats for Barack Obama's candidacy pushed voter turnout in this year's elections to the highest level in 40 years.

Final figures from nearly every state and the District of Columbia showed that more than 131 million people voted, the most ever for a presidential election. A little more than 122 million voted in 2004.

At least 159.8 million Americans voted in the 2020 presidential election, according to NBC News projections Wednesday morning.

The projected vote total marks a record high number of ballots cast in a presidential election and the highest voter turnout rate among eligible citizens since 1900.
"28.8 million more Americans voted than 2008, so it only makes sense that they would all be for Trump, although Trump has been noted to be one of the most divisive figures in recent history. And the cities being choked with celebrations during a worldwide pandemic of a people so elated that Trump was voted out is fake news, and completely not indicative of the swelled numbers of people who came to loathe Trump and his Administration. Each one of them were paid actors. That's common sense! STOP THE STEAL."
 

Agema

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"Unless you count all of my multiple, fraudulent votes, you're disenfranchising me!"
This is an appeal to incredulity.

A disproportionate proportion of the population of any state are in a handful of counties: the counties with major cities, plus that the major cities heavily lean Democrat. Turnout was vastly higher this year. In other words, it's not implausible at all - as long as you stop and think about it.

The guff about Trump winning in 2016 is just a distraction. Let's remember that Biden beat Trump in the popular vote by 4%, and Clinton beat Trump in the popular vote by 2%. Trump won PA in 2016 by 0.7%. Consequently by simple calculation, you'd expect PA to go Biden if it reflected the national swing.
 
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SilentPony

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Wait wait wait, are you all saying this whole show and dance is about removing millions of Biden votes from key swing states to flip the election for Trump?! Why, that's can't be it! The Trump people Pinkie-Pie-No-Backsies-Snap-Snap-Erasies-Snap-Snap Promised it was about ensuring a fair and free election! Why if this was just about trying to force a court to change the outcome of an election they lost, that would make them a bunch of political hacks and traitors, trying to overturn the will of the people using increasingly fantastic and fanciful anecdotes about not being given binoculars to observe something 6 feet away or hearing someone say that someone else heard someone say a delivery van was too small to deliver pizza, therefore it must be illegal Biden votes.

That would just be sad, pathetic and in no way a reflection of their true character and loyalty to Democracy and under no circumstances should be brought up whenever possible for laughs.
 
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Houseman

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they aren't showing or even suggesting that there are copies of votes.
They don't know whether or not there are copies of votes, because the republicans were not allowed to verify the signatures and were, in some cases, kept too far apart from the ballots to see anything.

So... you're calling people liars
Yes, if you move away and then fraudulently cast a ballot in the old state where you used to live, you have lied.
If you register your address to a UPS store inside of a Kroger, you have lied.

So you're asserting that those 600 thousand votes are all fraudulent then?
So you deny that illegitimate votes disenfranchise people who voted legitimately?

But I'll let the lawsuits do all the asserting. Go read them, if you'd like.


They said Republican poll-watchers weren't there at all, then had to admit in court that they were. They said they had evidence of fraudulent ballots to present, and then failed to present it to court. State officials-- including Republicans-- have consistently attested that the rules were followed as usual.
Citation needed.
 

Houseman

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