Election results discussion thread (and sadly the inevitable aftermath)

[Agema]

Of course I do. If you have X total excess deaths, but many of them aren't from contracting the virus, then the total excess deaths represents a larger number than the excess deaths caused by the virus. Algebra.

No, that's not the problem.

a) you need a reasonable estimate for non-covid excess deaths. You can't just pick a number you feel like.
b) not all covid-19 deaths are necessarily recorded as covid-19 deaths; the official tally may be an underestimate (there's that researcher in Florida who claims the state government has been deliberately under-reporting, although I have no comment on how true that is), but they may show up on excess deaths.
c) excess deaths is inherently of limited reliability due to variability in annual deaths; for instance +/- 10% may die in any one given year compared to the average of the last five years.
d) and finally, that's 300,000 excess deaths estimated by early October. A lot of people have died of covid-19 since then. The 320,000 is an up-to-date figure. Well, as of when I posted it anyway, it's already over 330,000 by now. There's a decent chance it will be over 400,000 by the time Trump departs the White House.

 

[Elijin]

This is pure arrogance.

Hello from somewhere that handled the virus, for the "I've lost count" time. You seem to always ignore me because it contradicts your "there was no way anyone could do better!" stance.

In my country we have restored almost full services, shaken off a significant portion of the economic fall out, and have a death total of less than 1000.

Sincerely, a place that's obviously far better than where you are, according to you.

 

[Agema]

Yep, lots of places acted very well. That's deregulation for you: some are good, some are bad, you have to rely on pure goodwill from your employer, and if you have the poor luck to be employed by a scumbag then you're screwed. Sounds perfect: a public health response based on pure luck & blind trust.

I wonder why the two great bastions of deregulation, the US and UK, are doing so abysmally poorly?

Broadly, what the UK and USA shared most were incompetent, lazy, narcissistic, amateur leaders who were too busy trying to be liked to decide good policy.

I suspect capitalism is not directly the issue, more indirectly for how it affects attitude. What the UK and USA share is a particular ideological subservience to the principle of making money. There was very high reluctance to lock down because they were concerned it would impede business and cost the economy a lot. In effect, their decision was to just let people die so the economy kept rolling: or perhaps to put it less cynically, they had excessive hope that people wouldn't die so they wouldn't have to lock down and hurt the economy. In the case of the UK, in a way that would be hilarious had it not been so tragic, the government chickened out of taking the call in good time and so cost maybe 10,000+ lives needlessly as it just had to lockdown anyway a week or two later, and then failed to learn from this and repeated exactly the same cock-up in November. And then when they did take measures, again, they watered them down and muddled them in an attempt to be as business-friendly as possible - really just managing to combine both a vast economic hit and failing to save lives.

 

[Trunkage]

Hello from somewhere that handled the virus, for the "I've lost count" time. You seem to always ignore me because it contradicts your "there was no way anyone could do better!" stance.

In my country we have restored almost full services, shaken off a significant portion of the economic fall out, and have a death total of less than 1000.

Sincerely, a place that's obviously far better than where you are, according to you.

We're already out of a recession.

It's almost like lockdowns HELPED keep the economy going

 

[Phoenixmgs]

This is pure arrogance.

What about South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, New Zealand, Australia, Norway, etc.?

The US is the 10th WORST nation in deaths per capita out of 150 countries.

COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista

COVID deaths worldwide were highest in Peru, topping a list that compares deaths per million in 210 countries worldwide.

www.statista.com

 

[Houseman]

What about South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, New Zealand, Australia, Norway, etc.?

The US is the 10th WORST nation in deaths per capita out of 150 countries.

COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista

COVID deaths worldwide were highest in Peru, topping a list that compares deaths per million in 210 countries worldwide.

www.statista.com

Yeah, China only had less than 5,000 deaths according to this list, what's our excuse?!

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Yeah, China only had less than 5,000 deaths according to this list, what's our excuse?!

Nobody believes China's numbers though I doubt they're worse than the US at this point.

 

[Agema]

Yeah, China only had less than 5,000 deaths according to this list, what's our excuse?!

Those are based on nations' own reported statistics, but countries have different recording systems. For instance:

China is almost certainly a hefty underestimate, both in terms of early on when many deaths will not have been reported as covid-19, and their general tendency to massage figures to look good: at least one study has suggested the real figures may be about ten times higher. On the other hand, that still makes it better than almost anywhere in Europe and North America, and it seems to have a grip on things because its control of the internet isn't so tight that news wouldn't be leaking out if it were having major outbreaks.

Belgium looks incredibly awful in large part because it chose extremely loose criteria for a covid-19 death. For instance, it decided that if a couple of individuals tested positive in a care home then any deaths at all in that care home were recorded as covid-19 "probable". If Belgium used measuring systems similar to most other nations, it would be about half that.

 

[Seanchaidh]

I didn't remotely say that. If being laid off and having no income are the causes you're worried about, perhaps you want to reconsider economic shutdowns (like health experts have been telling people for months).

1)That wouldn't work, as restaurants and so forth would take a big hit because people don't want to contract a horrible disease.
2)The government can just give people money to make up the difference instead of making the false choice between killing people and killing the economy. But it didn't. Because of capitalist ideology and wanting to maintain the current class structure.

 

[Houseman]

Georgia - A Close Look at the Data and Events of the General Election - Chapter 1

There is so much that went wrong in the Presidential Election, in Georgia, that we have to make more than 1 video. Chapter 1 takes a look at the data and the handling of the votes. Please call your le

rumble.com

 

[Avnger]

We seem to be just posting links apropos nothing now

 

[Houseman]

We seem to be just posting links apropos nothing now

You don't see what my link has to do with the election?

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Georgia - A Close Look at the Data and Events of the General Election - Chapter 1

There is so much that went wrong in the Presidential Election, in Georgia, that we have to make more than 1 video. Chapter 1 takes a look at the data and the handling of the votes. Please call your le

rumble.com

Pretty funny how Biden getting 85% of the vote in a precinct is "suspicious" and not normal while him getting 11% (meaning Trump got the rest) in another isn't suspicious.

You don't see what my link has to do with the election?

As much as your other garbage links have to do with the election.

 

[Avnger]

You don't see what my link has to do with the election?

It's just a link. You made no argument, gave no opinion, and provided no context. If we wanted to discuss with the people making opinions on "rumble.com", we'd go talk to them. Do you have anything to say on the election?

Here's a "related to the election" Lebron James tweet:

 

[Houseman]

It's just a link.

Yes. About the election.

Do you have anything to say on the election?

It was stolen

 

[Phoenixmgs]

It was stolen

 

[Houseman]

I direct you back to the video

 

[Avnger]

It was stolen

by aliens from the bible

Proof:

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Those are based on nations' own reported statistics, but countries have different recording systems. For instance:

China is almost certainly a hefty underestimate, both in terms of early on when many deaths will not have been reported as covid-19, and their general tendency to massage figures to look good: at least one study has suggested the real figures may be about ten times higher. On the other hand, that still makes it better than almost anywhere in Europe and North America, and it seems to have a grip on things because its control of the internet isn't so tight that news wouldn't be leaking out if it were having major outbreaks.

Belgium looks incredibly awful in large part because it chose extremely loose criteria for a covid-19 death. For instance, it decided that if a couple of individuals tested positive in a care home then any deaths at all in that care home were recorded as covid-19 "probable". If Belgium used measuring systems similar to most other nations, it would be about half that.

China's numbers came up in a discussion elsewhere and the short of the conversation ended up being "Only an idiot takes China's word at face value, but the advantage of a totalitarian regime is getting people to wear masks and social distance is relatively easy to do, so they're almost certainly doing better than the US and most of western Europe."

 

[tstorm823]

Hello from somewhere that handled the virus, for the "I've lost count" time. You seem to always ignore me because it contradicts your "there was no way anyone could do better!" stance.

In my country we have restored almost full services, shaken off a significant portion of the economic fall out, and have a death total of less than 1000.

Sincerely, a place that's obviously far better than where you are, according to you.

You haven't contradicted my stance. You believe you have, but you haven't. I generally just let post go without a response if I don't feel a need to disagree, and I don't disagree with "other places were impacted less". If you think other places being impacted less makes me wrong, you're going to have to make a much bigger argument than just point it out.

What about South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, New Zealand, Australia, Norway, etc.?

De facto island, island, island, island, island... have you considered the possibility that there are more factors at play than just national level government response? Perhaps geography could play a role? Population demographics? You think any country could have just behaved like South Korea and had no problems? That's not how reality works. There are no panaceas.

But it didn't.

Yes it did.