Enders Game studio releases statement on Orson Scott Card's views

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Orson Scott Card and people like him always raise one question in my head;

"What if my view in life was only good enough for me?"

It really gives me inner peace. Knowing that while I might be very, very weird to someone else, it's ok because I'm only responsible and I only need to be true to me. My way of thinking, being, and acting came about because it was correct for me. That brings happiness to me.

I support Card's views as it's the views he has for himself. They work for him. Be he well and happy. But then he called for others to think like him. To subject a people to a punishment or ostracization because he can not get on board with how these people are living their lives. Can you see the difference? His views are perfectly ok (even if I vehemently don't agree with them), and he's free to have them. But the second he tries to create and enforce change that limits other people's views he becomes an asshat that I feel needs to be stopped.

Do whatever you want to do, do it with like minded people, have a freaking party. But when your actions limits or harms others to do likewise, anyone who wishes for that type of freedom should rise up and stop it. Freedom and the ability to express for all, or for none.

(and before people say the idea is hypocritical, I said freedom to express. He can express his distaste for gays marrying. Do it. But he can not infringe the freedom of gays actually expressing their love the way all humans should be able to.)

 

[Greg White]

I don't understand why people care so much about what this guy thinks about anything!

Some people wont be happy unless they have something to whine and cry about and then boycott.

Lets them feel morally superior and they can claim to be sensitive and such.

They can complain about the 'great injustice' of the Zimmerman trial then.

Complaining about either one isn't going to change anyone's mind because you can't convince the other side and the vast majority of people who don't care are just going to get annoyed at you for it.

 

[thenumberthirteen]

For some reason, this made me think of the gay roller. Even though you didn't really describe it.

I'm liking the use of the word "literally". Americans will be broken and flattened when the gays take over. Seems legit.

 

[klaynexas3]

And what endless pride parade? I have no idea what you're talking about. Provide evidence of this endless parade, does it just go in circles or does it move from city to city?

When I was a child there was a parade every day. Those were dark times...

OT: It's good to know all the money won't go to funding homophobic organizations, the sad part is part of the money still will. Damn, this is the Chik-fil-a dilemma all over again.

 

[pyrosaw]

-snip-

Ah, someone just cried "Homophobe".All I need now is someone to call me a fascist and the day will be complete.

For thousands of years genocide,cannibalism, slavery,hunting other human beings, racial superiority and burning people alive for thinking the earth was round was considered a norm.The treatment of homosexuality wasn't anything special.The period you were refering to was called the dark ages after all.Blame the Catholic church.

You mean to tell me that dressing as scantly as humanly possible and visually implying the act of dragging one man's balls over the face of another in full public veiw is considered progress?There is something rotten in the state of Denmark.

Kid, when you learn to impeccably write in bulgarian, then you'll have the right to talk 'bout my grammar and until then - Ебем ти матеру.

If you think hundreds of years of imperialism, ignorance, bigotry and hatred can be solved because some old men made a few vague laws and some idealistic kids protested for better rights, then I want to visit whatever messed up fantasy world your livin because that place sounds fantastic.

Also, Bulgarian or not, your English needs a little work there.

 

[HardkorSB]

I mean I'm surprised that the fuss has been enough to prompt a response both from the studio and Mr Card.

I would have assumed that they would ignore it, safe in the knowledge that a few people on the internet refusing to buy tickets wouldn't hurt their bottom line.

Then again, I haven't been actively following this. Maybe it made it into the mainstream media without me noticing.

I think that you underestimate the influence of the internet.
You can spread information to millions of people in a matter of minutes.
"A few people on the internet" have managed to stop things like SOPA (because it sure weren't the mainstream media), plus homosexuality is the big social topic these days so I don't think it would be too hard to rally people against both Card and the studio.
The studio knows that if they won't distance themselves from Card's views, it will lead to a bad reputation and might even translate to their future movies flopping.

Harrison Ford is in it!! it can't be bad!!

Have you seen Hollywood Homicide or Firewall?

 

[Aerius]

If you cared so much about your pro-LGBT position why did you give Scott Card a fucking producer credit, putting his name up there in lights?

The reality is that the message sent by Ender's Game is totally contrary to that posed by Scott Card himself. Arguably the themes are less obvious in Ender's Game as they are in the sequels, but his writings continually promote tolerance, personal moral relativism and the value of diversity. Therefore, it's totally irrelevant if Orson Scott Card himself is a bigot - he somehow managed to produce works of literature which do the opposite of further his social and moral beliefs. Given that, it's desirable that people should watch Ender's Game and be exposed to those ideas which are entirely positive for groups like the LGBT-rights movement. Regardless of his personal leanings, his literature sends the right message.

 

[mike1921]

I don't understand why people care so much about what this guy thinks about anything!

Some people wont be happy unless they have something to whine and cry about and then boycott.

Lets them feel morally superior and they can claim to be sensitive and such.

How dare we not want our money going to evil causes! Jesus Christ people are so fucking quick to go "OH MY GOD THEY'RE JUST WHINING! THEY WANT TO LOOK ALL COOL".

The views of someone who gets the royalties of a work are important because buying that work gives money, and if said person gives money to promoting their idiotic and evil views than money you spend on work goes to promoting those evil views.

 

[mike1921]

I don't understand why people care so much about what this guy thinks about anything!

Some people wont be happy unless they have something to whine and cry about and then boycott.

Lets them feel morally superior and they can claim to be sensitive and such.

How dare we not want our money going to evil causes! Jesus Christ people are so fucking quick to go "OH MY GOD THEY'RE JUST WHINING! THEY WANT TO LOOK ALL COOL".

The views of someone who gets the royalties of a work are important because buying that work gives money, and if said person gives money to promoting their idiotic and evil views than money you spend on work goes to promoting those evil views.

Ok show me a source that says he is getting royalties, because in one of the interviews in the enders game audio book he said he had sold his screen play but was keeping creative rights so that someone wouldnt fuck up his vision of the book.

That sounds to me like he got his paycheck and already spent it on whatever.

I can't find a source one way or another But really, the guy made a statement asking for 'tolerance' for his views when asking people not to boycott the film...I'd imagine he'd mention that he doesn't have a personal financial stake in the movie if he just wanted people to watch it and he wasn't getting paid.

 

[terrangray]

I don't get what the big deal is? Yes, Mr card wrote the book and yes he has views that nor very open. But, can anybody guarantee that every single movie, book, piece of music, video game, food from a restaurant. That every single person who is responsible for getting that product to you is a good person.
What if the main camera operator on the Avengers was a racist or more extreme in there views the Mr Card. Should that mean we shouldn't go and see the movie?.If the desert chef at your favorite restaurant hates gays should you boycott the entire restaurant?
No, because there are a lot of other people at work at the restaurant. Same thing with the movie, if boycotting the movie means the company goes under and people lose there jobs. Then the stress leads to divorces and kids growing up without mothers and fathers and they only reason they have is that the LBGT wanted to teach an author a lesson. Well, then they will grow up hating the LBGT community and the cycle of violence would just continue again.
Before any one says how ridicolous that is, so too is the suggestion that it is morally right to not see this movie as it can only lead to funding attacks on LGBT
If someone could show me that Enders Game isn't a fantastical space but actually a cunning satire and the evil aliens are actual Orsons interpertation of LGBT people and Ender and his army are the Straight Edge superstars. Then I wouldn't want to support hate propoganda. But, while it is just a well written book
But, until Orson physically harms a LGBT individual then I will watch the films and even buy his Superman comics if the internet lets him write the great stories that he can and does.

 

[Something Amyss]

Ehhh what is the fuzz?

Guessing Orson said something terrible terrible about gays and now the LGBT community is whining again, wanting people to boycott the movie?

Always hilarious when people accuse the LGBT community of whining when it was tantrums from Card that started the whole thing.

He handled the matter with the aplomb of a two year old in a tantrum, but yes, it's the gays who are "whining."

 

[Something Amyss]

But, can anybody guarantee that every single movie, book, piece of music, video game, food from a restaurant. That every single person who is responsible for getting that product to you is a good person.

I think that's flawed logic. You don't know that any given item in your kitchen isn't harmful; that doesn't mean you just go ahead and drink bleach or rat poison.

You don't know that any given person isn't a child molester. That doesn't mean you let the guy on the national sex offender registry watch your kids.

Those examples too harsh? Fine, let's go with a consumer service.

You can't guarantee that nobody in any given restaurant ISN'T spitting in your food. However, if someone is spitting in your food, do you shrug, say "well, can anyone guarantee there isn't spit in your food" and eat it anyway?

I can't really boycott Card, because I don't give a crap about his work, but at the same time, you're comparing imagined offense to a very real one. In this case, a man who has put money into denying gays rights, it's not illogical to refuse to give him more money to put towards it. In this case especially, the man is on the board for NOM.

Speaking of....

Before any one says how ridicolous that is, so too is the suggestion that it is morally right to not see this movie as it can only lead to funding attacks on LGBT

Perhaps English is not your first language, but people aren't saying it can "only" go to it. I'm not sure if you're intentionally misphrasing this as part of reductum ad absurdum or you just don't speak English all that well.

 

[Johanthemonster666]

As a gay guy reading these comments makes me laugh.

Aside from Orson being a bigoted piece of work funding a disgusting organization, it was amusing to see Lionsgate basically making an appeal to LGBTQ+ folks to spend their money despite the collaboration with that author to bring the movie to the big screen. Corporations use to gleefully trample on representations of Queer and Trans* people in their films (still do in a lot of cases). But now that we're supposedly a profitable demographic, they now appeal for 'pink dollars' while their actions speak louder than words.

I support same-sex marriage, but of all the issues that affect LGBTQ+ people everyday I wouldn't have placed it as a high priority. So him thinking gay marriage is the end of civilization? Zero fucks given, he's delusional. But corporations making fake appeals to us for profit seems just as much an insult.

The studio producers and director knew they were getting themselves into the day they received the first edits of the screenplay. Orson has never been discreet about his views, he wrote a children's book featuring a pedophile main villain for crying out loud!

I've read Enders Game, bought it for .5 cents at a use bookstore so that no profit went toward the author. It was good, but the people on this thread saying that their nerd love trumps worrying about issues that have been mentioned in several posts already is pretty shallow. This contempt for even slightly acknowledging oppression and suffering in the geek community really bugs the hell out of me.

 

[Adam Locking]

I would have assumed that they would ignore it, safe in the knowledge that a few people on the internet refusing to buy tickets wouldn't hurt their bottom line.

It's a sci-fi movie, the chances of anyone not regularly spending time on the internet going to see it is slim at best

Gays in Russia gets beaten by police

Wonder what would happen if I tried to arrange a straight parade...

Please, tell me more about how you get beaten up by police for being straight.

 

[RicoADF]

Are you white? I have to assume that you are, because everything you say absolutely reeks of White Man's Privilege. You seem to be working on the assumption that gays, 'negars' and Christians are all fighting to become the dominant force in society, and while that is certainly true of a minority of religious factions (not the consensus of the religion as a whole) for the most part people are just asking for acceptance and, if that's not on the cards, tolerance.

You're whole 'wahh it's a double standard' argument is the exact same bullshit I always see men pulling in Feminist threads when they complain that women have the audacity to want equal pay and yet you're not allowed to fuck them just because you buy them dinner. You don't seem to understand what a double standard is: If one group is only slightly less oppressed than the other, that's not a double standard; it's a sad reflection of society, as a whole.

I'd like to point out that your being quite a hypocrite with that statement, especially the first line. To claim your all about tolerance in one sentence then the next attack him for possibly being a white male and that if so he has no right to comment because of their race and gender (aka racism and sexism, do you oppose them or not?).

From reading his comment it sounds like he's trying to say that he hasn't got an issue with gays and even supports them fighting for their rights, but thinks they need to do it properly. Parading in the streets (which is apparently illegal where he lives) and getting away from it is a double standard to allow it when other groups (regardless of who they are) aren't allowed to do the same thing. Rather he suggests they vote against those that are against gay marraige, petition congress to change the laws and if it comes to it enter office themselves and change the laws which they are allowed to do without discrimination (as far as I'm aware).

I agree with both of you, your correct that it's a disgrace that gays get prosecuted and even killed in some places and he's correct that they shouldn't get special treatment (regardless of why their doing it), if you want equality then it has to be equal for all not just equal but each group gets a special exemption. Personally the laws need to be standardised for all, one set of laws that are for everyone regardless of race, gender, sexuality or religion. No special exemptions and no discrimination against, it's the only fair system.

 

[repeating integers]

Have you seen Hollywood Homicide or Firewall?

I don't get the negative response to Firewall. I saw it and thought it was brilliant, and was then baffled when it turned out to have negative reviews. Still am.

 

[rob_simple]

Are you white? I have to assume that you are, because everything you say absolutely reeks of White Man's Privilege. You seem to be working on the assumption that gays, 'negars' and Christians are all fighting to become the dominant force in society, and while that is certainly true of a minority of religious factions (not the consensus of the religion as a whole) for the most part people are just asking for acceptance and, if that's not on the cards, tolerance.

You're whole 'wahh it's a double standard' argument is the exact same bullshit I always see men pulling in Feminist threads when they complain that women have the audacity to want equal pay and yet you're not allowed to fuck them just because you buy them dinner. You don't seem to understand what a double standard is: If one group is only slightly less oppressed than the other, that's not a double standard; it's a sad reflection of society, as a whole.

I'd like to point out that your being quite a hypocrite with that statement, especially the first line. To claim your all about tolerance in one sentence then the next attack him for possibly being a white male and that if so he has no right to comment because of their race and gender (aka racism and sexism, do you oppose them or not?).

I've actually sorted this out with him in a PM, but I feel the need to address your first paragrraph. My point is that, and bear in mind I am saying this as a white male myself, a lot of white, middle class men have a really weird habit of making out they are victimised in a world where they have literally every advantage given to them. Louis C.K. says it much better than I ever could:


I wasn't saying he had no right to comment, given that I'm a white straight guy it would be super hypocritical of me to do so, I was saying that he was being incredibly dismissive of what these people are fighting for and that the only conclusion I could draw was that he had such a privileged existence he was blind to all the prejudice other people encounter on a daily basis.

I do get how you could see it as hypocritical --and to be honest it was a flippant remark that I probably shouldn't have made in an otherwise serious post-- but I was just trying to figure out where he was coming from, and why he was declaring that everyone was equal and couldn't see that that was absolutely not the case, especially for gay people who are still being denied basic human rights in even the most progressive parts of the world.

And as I said, I'm not saying gay people deserve special treatment, but that's not what his example with the parades demonstrates: what that demonstrates is general oppression but with one group slightly less oppressed than the others. Yes, there is an element of double standards, but the bigger issue is that the government sees fit at all to tell any groups of people they cannot have a voice. That isn't the fault of gay people, it's the fault of the government.

 

[RicoADF]

I've actually sorted this out with him in a PM, but I feel the need to address your first paragrraph. My point is that, and bear in mind I am saying this as a white male myself, a lot of white, middle class men have a really weird habit of making out they are victimised in a world where they have literally every advantage given to them. Louis C.K. says it much better than I ever could:

*SNIP youtube video*

I wasn't saying he had no right to comment, given that I'm a white straight guy it would be super hypocritical of me to do so, I was saying that he was being incredibly dismissive of what these people are fighting for and that the only conclusion I could draw was that he had such a privileged existence he was blind to all the prejudice other people encounter on a daily basis.

I do get how you could see it as hypocritical --and to be honest it was a flippant remark that I probably shouldn't have made in an otherwise serious post-- but I was just trying to figure out where he was coming from, and why he was declaring that everyone was equal and couldn't see that that was absolutely not the case, especially for gay people who are still being denied basic human rights in even the most progressive parts of the world.

And as I said, I'm not saying gay people deserve special treatment, but that's not what his example with the parades demonstrates: what that demonstrates is general oppression but with one group slightly less oppressed than the others. Yes, there is an element of double standards, but the bigger issue is that the government sees fit at all to tell any groups of people they cannot have a voice. That isn't the fault of gay people, it's the fault of the government.

No problem mate, now I get where your coming from and agree. The problem with these discussions is they often end up with people debating over a few words which means one thing to the writer and another to the reader, text isn't the best way to discuss these matters especially when even in person people often end up arguing over a topic they have the same view on, it can get rather silly from a 3rd person's viewpoint.

As for the topic at hand which I deviated from in my last post, I don't know who this person is so I'll refrain from commenting. It sounds like from the others that have posted here that he's an anti gay rights person that funds groups that support traditional marriage. That's his right regardless of weather I agree with it or not, but it's also our right to decide weather to buy things that he makes. That's something the customers are going to have to decide on themselves, voting with their wallets.

Catcha: in the air - indeed the issue is.