Epic President Dumps On Used Games, Piracy

[incal11]

GTA1,2,3,Vice City, San Andreas all together, about £20.

That's how you deal with old games that you don't want to see end up in the second hand market.

Thank you!

Also, is steam legal?

Then they *****, piss and moan about how people are trying to save a few bucks by buying used and that they DESERVE that money, too. "GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!", is the motto of these tools who resent retailers and gamers for wanting to make or save a buck.

The thing is that, when we save a buck, they get nothing. I don't know how much a game maker gets from a new sale of a 60$ game,but even if it's 10$, we're saving 5$ if we're buying from their primary retailer and they lose 10, is that fair?

It IS fair ; see here:
http://www.sivideo.com/9fstslea.htm

It is a right to resell what you use;
among industries that sells to the general public the video game companies are the only ones to question that right.
Just imagine a world where reselling anything is a mortal sin... ridiculous.

The consumer is always right , so if you don't think that a game is not worth 60$ , then it is not worth 60$ , period.
Either the prices are lowered , or you buy it used from someone else.
Then prices have to be lowered , that's how the market work ;
all this sounds like a short sighted scheme to keep game prices up as long as possible (I don't see how re-selling can be stopped).
This is serious , the right of first sell is in danger.

Greed...
getting in the way of our fun.

 

[Andraste]

These fuckwits in the games industry honestly believe a family with three children should be required to buy three copies of each game if all the kids are to play it, and that my friends, is not a reasonable thing to do, and the law backs our side of that situation.

Based on the many conversations I've had with many different people in the industry, this statement is false. They do not feel that people should buy multiple copies for one household. To say otherwise is simply hyperbole. General usage rights allow use for multiple people within one household; devs and pubs know this - they are smart people.

What's not allowed and what is upsetting to developers and publishers is that someone plays the game without paying for it. That is pure and simple stealing. If you play something that is generally acquired by an exchange of funds, without exchanging those funds, you are stealing.

When you buy a used copy of the game, the people who created the game and brought it to the stores (the developer and the publisher) are not being paid. User agreements do not cover allowing others to play your game, watch your movies or listen to your music for a fee. That is essentially what is happening when a used game is sold and then bought again.

And the numbers generally come for server ping IDs v. copies of game sold. Some of the discrepancy can come from multiple people from the same household playing the same copy (fine) but this is offset considerably by the number of people who never play online.

 

[Baby Tea]

GIVE US FREAKING DEMO VERSIONS TO SEE THE FREAKING GAME YOU HYPED FOR 2 YEARS OR SO AND YOU WILL SEE PIRATING DECREASE.

Bullshit. Demos don't have anything to do with it. People pirate because either they think they are sending a message, because they don't want to pay money they don't have for a game they want, or because they don't want to pay money they DO have for a game they want.

And before people drop the 'I only download games and see if I will buy it, and then I delete it', that's also either complete bullshit or you are a rare minority.

Look, I think the President of EA (And EA in general) is a total tool (ESPECIALLY about the used games 'problem'...idiot) and is going about this piracy problem the completely wrong way. But look at it, if you dare, from the perspective of one of these companies (EA or otherwise):

They spend upwards of millions of dollars in time and money developing these games. Go figure they'd want to MAKE MONEY off these games. It's a freaking business, and that's the point of a business: To make money. But then, you got a bunch of people blatantly ripping your product off. Flat out stealing it. Yeah, that would get me annoyed and angry too.

Try and justify piracy all you want, because you're lying to yourself.
'It's a sub par product! I don't want to pay full price for that!' - Then wait for the inevitable price drop. Otherwise I guess you really DID want that game! Pay for the damn thing.

'I'm not going to support STOOPID EA because they suck!' - But yet you still want to play their games by downloading them? That's a ridiculous argument. You either boycott them or you buy them, otherwise you're just an EA closet case.

'I don't agree with their DRM/copy protection software!' - Well if people weren't pirating in the first place, they wouldn't be there. Besides that, since they ARE there, then don't get the bloody game. That's how they're releasing it, and if it pisses you off then don't get the game. There are plenty of other great games out there without the DRM and secuROM shit. Play those.

Sorry to rant, but I get sick of people with their heads up their ass spouting forum rhetoric on the virtues of piracy. It's bullshit.

 

[incal11]

I want to make it clear to the likes of Baby tea that I am not advocating piracy ;
I am advocating the right to resell (see my last post).

So what if they sunk millions in development? a crappy game will never be worth 60$ !

Them gutting consumer rights is a good reason not to buy anything from anyone that stupid.

I agree , some developper are smart , but sometime just not smart enough

 

[Nimbus]

Then they *****, piss and moan about how people are trying to save a few bucks by buying used and that they DESERVE that money, too. "GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!", is the motto of these tools who resent retailers and gamers for wanting to make or save a buck.

The thing is that, when we save a buck, they get nothing. I don't know how much a game maker gets from a new sale of a 60$ game,but even if it's 10$, we're saving 5$ if we're buying from their primary retailer and they lose 10, is that fair?

They deserve nothing. They produced the initial product, SOMEONE PAID FOR IT, and then sold it on. If someone want to sell on an old game, they are fully within their rights. If someone wants to buy a used game, they are fully within their rights. The only people doing anything wrong are the idiots putting DRM into their games.

 

[Jursa]

To be honest I won't cry about losing gears of war 2... If fallout 3 were to have come out on consoles only I would have been angry, if blizzard were to release SC2 on consoles I'd be pissed, losing gears of war 2 isn't gonna make me cry and it sure as hell ain't gonna make me buy a console. I felt epic was dried up after I played UT3, while it was nice, compared to UT2004 it felt weak. Also while Crytek may be annoying with their piracy statements, a game where you can pile up 3 trucks and make an explosion bigger than a nuke is something I'll leave Crytek in peace for.

 

[Neosage]

IMO I think it's because geats was originally a 360 selling point and when the moved it to PC microsoft lost out (yes I know gears is only for windows but....who doesn't have computer) and so they probably asked for gears 2 not to be out on PC. (otherwise why would EPIC spend so long on the first for PC unless it is some clever scheme (get PC gamers hooked on gears so they buy 360s and gears 2?))

 

[adamandkate]

im sorry, but if they want to alienate an entire market.. feel free. its thier death bed.

Dont sell to PC gamers any more, because we dont want to buy your rubbish!

 

[mike1921]

It IS fair ; see here:
http://www.sivideo.com/9fstslea.htm

It is a right to resell what you use;

I'm not challenging whether it should be legal. I'm challenging whether it's moral

The consumer is always right , so if you don't think that a game is not worth 60$ , then it is not worth 60$ , period.
Either the prices are lowered , or you buy it used from someone else.[/qutoe] No, the consumer is not always right. Also, I'm not challenging that it's moral to buy used games, I'm saying it's immoral to buy used games when they're only 8% cheaper than new games. Since you're making them lose 10$ so you can save 5.

They deserve nothing. They produced the initial product, SOMEONE PAID FOR IT, and then sold it on. If someone want to sell on an old game, they are fully within their rights. If someone wants to buy a used game, they are fully within their rights. The only people doing anything wrong are the idiots putting DRM into their games.

I'm aware that you should have the right to resell and to buy used product. I'm just saying that it's not moral if they're losing much more money than you save on this. I'm a liberal, I don't think that everything immoral should be illegal.

 

[Nimbus]

I'm aware that you should have the right to resell and to buy used product. I'm just saying that it's not moral if they're losing much more money than you save on this. I'm a liberal, I don't think that everything immoral should be illegal.

Were the game €5 cheaper, or hell, €1 cheaper, I would buy it. The Devs already got paid for producing the game.

 

[forever saturday]

the way i see it, once we buy a game it belongs to us. saying "you cant sell that game to your friend" is basically saying that they still own the game. car companies arent asking for more money when a dealer sells a used car (i think). why hsould video games be any different?

 

[incal11]

Morality simply does not come in the equation.

If you bought the game at a lower price it was either from the company who was wise enough to lower it's price after a while , or from someone who thinks that this game is not worth keeping.

Assuming you are not very close to your money ; if you don't pay full price for a game you either couldn't aford it at that price , or thought it was not worth it.

If you think it is "moral" to buy any crap at any price you're told , you are a pigeon.

 

[mike1921]

If you think it is "moral" to buy any crap at any mrice you're told , you are a pigeon.

Strawman. And if buying a game used saved us 20$ off a 60$ game than it would be moral to buy it used. But since the number one retailer in america (where most people buy there games, sadly) of games only save you 5$ it's the equivelant of burning down someone's house for a penny if burning someone's house was legal.

Assuming you are not very close to your money ; if you dodn't pay full price for a game you either couldn't aford it at that price , or thought it was not worth it.

I'm aware

If you bought the game at a lower price it was either from the company who was wise enough to lower it's price after a while , or from someone who thinks that this game is not worth keeping.

Also aware

 

[incal11]

so you agree it can't be amoral to buy games at lower prices

 

[mike1921]

If that's a double negative, than yes. It can be moral to buy games at lower prices.

 

[Fanboy]

These companies just keep giving me more reasons not to care about them.

I really hope "piracy" destroys the gaming industry. I want games that are made by people who love to make them and value us as customers, not people who love our money and call us pirates when they don't get enough.

I would have bought Gears 2 if it came out on PC, but now I just feel sick.

 

[darrinwright]

Let him try. Then when gamers refuse to buy another Epic product, he'll change his tune.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Doesn't it come down to the fact that the consumer's rights regarding his legally purchased property are unquestioned in every field except (apparently) software? Or, is there another instance where the right to resell one's legally purchased property is not protected that I have overlooked? I cannot think of any good for which this right does not apply.

And I personally don't see a moral problem with reselling anything. The manufacturer/developer has presumably received their due.

 

[Nimbus]

If you think it is "moral" to buy any crap at any mrice you're told , you are a pigeon.

Strawman. And if buying a game used saved us 20$ off a 60$ game than it would be moral to buy it used. But since the number one retailer in america (where most people buy there games, sadly) of games only save you 5$ it's the equivelant of burning down someone's house for a penny if burning someone's house was legal.

Bull. You can't put a price on morality.

 

[mike1921]

Doesn't it come down to the fact that the consumer's rights regarding his legally purchased property are unquestioned in every field except software?

Ofcourse

Or, is there another instance where the right to resell one's legally purchased property is not protected that I have overlooked? I cannot think of any good for which this right does not apply.

......I don't think so

And I personally don't see a moral problem with reselling anything. The manufacturer/developer has presumably received their due.

I know they recieved their due, and I actually love the gaming industry for the way that if a company releases a piece of shit game that a lot of people buy on the first day that there will be a lot of used and product and even uninformed customers who buy it without question will get it used so the company gets no money from them. But, that doesn't mean I don't want the developer getting another sale just because it'll save the customer 2 cents.

Bull. You can't put a price on morality.

Still a strawman. Because I wasn't argueing it's right to pay any price they want you to.

Ok, you know what. I quit, you guys win. You're right.