Escape to the Movies: Act of Valor

[Shoggoth2588]

Great review but I'm a bit disappointed about the lack of a call-back regarding Ghost Rider 2. I'm going to guess the 'it's bad' rumors were true. Honestly wasn't planning on watching this one anyway to be honest.

 

[Treblaine]

So the film has totally authentic and compelling action set pieces but is let down without a really good role who can act emphatically and appeal to the audience. It's almost as if they need to bring in a special outsider for a kind of fish out of water role to ground the events.

What we need is an actor. One of the best around to work with our highly trained team of special forces badasses to do the one thing they can't... act.

And I think I've the man for the job. The greatest actor in the world:

 

[Sylveria]

Hey remember when Bob shat all over The Expendables and the Transformer movies for being a Hoo-Rah gunwank films that served to appeal to red-staters and the stupid, common, movie-going audience, as he put it, and was just military worship and ass kissing?

Now he sits here praising what is literally hoo-rah gunwank military worship made by and for the military to appeal to red-staters and "stupid people." Not to mention he spends a good 30% of his review just slobbering all over the navy's junk.

What Bob, scared?

 

[Sylveria]

Great review but I'm a bit disappointed about the lack of a call-back regarding Ghost Rider 2. I'm going to guess the 'it's bad' rumors were true. Honestly wasn't planning on watching this one anyway to be honest.

I saw it (Ghost Rider 2) today.. I thought it was quite fun. But I imagine there was no big government paycheck in the mail for Bob gushing his love for Ghost Rider.

 

[Treblaine]

Hey remember when Bob shat all over The Expendables and the Transformer movies for being a Hoo-Rah gunwank films that served to appeal to red-staters and the stupid, common, movie-going audience, as he put it, and was just military worship and ass kissing?

Now he sits here praising what is literally hoo-rah gunwank military worship made by and for the military to appeal to red-staters and "stupid people." Not to mention he spends a good 30% of his review just slobbering all over the navy's junk.

What Bob, scared?

Uh, in the review he reiterates his dislike of The Expendables and Transformers. In this he actually makes a distinction between war films that glorify violence for entertainment and those that emphasise its horror for "entertainment". He objects to films that sell war as a fun adventure rather than a terrifying challenge, THAT would be a propaganda war film.

Propaganda is deception. This film strives above all else for authenticity, to show you a non-sanitized, non-idealised view of war. Dumb sanitised war hoo-rah he objects to, that has no visceral consequences. Propaganda does not just mean "any work that fails to be anti-war or Anti-government". Propaganda means deceptive manipulation for a political aim.

Act of Valor is NOT a stupid film that sanitises and glorifies war, it is as real as it could get... hell, they shot much of the film using LIVE AMMUNITION! This wouldn't just appeal to red-staters, this would appeal to those on all sides of the political spectrum who'd naturally be interested in an "as authentic as it gets" contemporary war movie that doesn't try to force any particular political message.

There is a distinction between military worship and giving them their due respect or recognition. There IS a middle ground between suspicious hatred and slathering glorification/idealisation of the military.

Movie Bob has explained his stance well enough, there is no reason to suspect intimidation nor bribery.

 

[Tireseas_v1legacy]

I think it says a lot that half that video consisted of apologetic disclaimers.

Shame they went and included the wankier aspects. One would think this movie would have presented a good opportunity to avoid that stuff.

Yes, a lot of apologetics.

Bob can never escape that he is an American, and with that often comes a positive view of American soldiers. He never acknowledges they, the SEALs are jobbers, highly trained killers. He can't sit back either and appreciate the Americans through their military power, are not the good guys, or at least, can't claim to be the good guys all the time. The American mind rarely escapes and soberly examines the "American heroes" of the American military. He knows the populace get fed propaganda, but doesn't think how the propaganda affects his perceptions.

I think there's one more thing to these disclaimers that we're all missing: This is MovieBob's job, and while a major newspaper can take a PR hit after a more zealous critical review of such material, the Escapist cannot. If he opted to go all-out critical on this review as if it were Transformers, there would be three possible consequences:

1) Escapist refuses to publish the video. The safest thing to do PR-wise and they can pay Bob as if it was posted normally in order to compensate him for his work. There would be a minor shit-storm in the forums ("CENSORSHIP!" while conveniently ignoring publisher's rights) and a quick exchange of legal threats between Bob and the Escapist at worst.

2) Escapist publishes the video. A minor flame war erupts in a manner similar to when they first brought in Jimquisition (which I stopped watching after the first few weeks because of the content), resulting in a short-term reduction in certain US-demographic posters. Or, and just as likely...

3) Escapist publishes the video. Standard flame war ensues, but a right-wing blog picks up the video and opts to plaster it in the right-wing blogosphere. Eventually, the video ends up on a major conservative hub such as Red State or a Fox News talk program, where they proudly proclaim it as anti-American hate media, which ironically results in significant hate mail toward the Escapist by the more unstable members of the audience. Escapist terminates its contract with Bob, and possibly has to hire and reorganize staff to deal with how they've been branded as a target for right-wing hate messages. In the end, there's a lot of money lost from expenditures and lost ad revenue. Given that LoLSec's attack on the Escapist and other sites got them a direct mention on major mainstream news sites, picking up on this wouldn't be that difficult.

 

[Vault Citizen]

Okay, just wanna jump in here for a minute: My "disclaimer" had nothing to do with "apologizing" to the Army or anyone else. I simply wanted to make sure my (very) specific criticisms were understood to be in the context I intended them.

This particular film presents a very unique situation for critical analysis, as many of the action sequences are made up in part by footage of the SEAL operators engaged in (and my exact terminology may be incorrect here) live-fire exercises - i.e. we are effectively watching them run "drills" for their actual techniques/operations during which they were both dodging and returning potentially-lethal gunfire. Thusly, I wanted it understood that when I talked about "performance" in a critical way I was talking specifically about stuff like acting, projection, etc. and NOT "field performance" in the exercises themselves which I'm in no way qualified to judge.

Considering the fact that you are a movie critic I doubt anyone would have thought that you would be criticising the field performance of aformentioned soldiers instead of their acting.


Edit - the error of this assumption has been pointed out to me. My bad

 

[Courtney Roberts]

A lot of the comments on respecting the military come back to the same point. They do it so you don't have to.

The implicit assumption in that argument was that joining the military is a noble idea, and that they are only following orders.

The fallacy in this is that America hasn't gone to war for decent reasons since before the cold war and therefore every potential recruit should know by now that they are walking into a job which is seriously morally objectionable.

And since when was it noble to subject your family to losing you to fight these illegal wars?

No country needs a force larger than a national guard, with a secret service to pick up delicate operations. Thats the truth of it.

 

[maturin]

This movie is realistic?

I'm an anti-war pinko hippy and even I know that the clip at 5:30 is 100% wrong.

A BF3 Shotgun-Sniper level of wrong.

No country needs a force larger than a national guard, with a secret service to pick up delicate operations. Thats the truth of it.

And if some foreign pirates start picking off all your maritime trade on the other side of the world, as happened after less than a generation of American independence with only a national guard? (see self-description above)

they shot much of the film using LIVE AMMUNITION!

So the most realistic part of the movie is the bullet moving too fast to see, lol. Because I'm sure the tracer rounds were faked.

 

[Jegsimmons]

i wonder how many people on this site will criticize the movie only on a political standpoint and not an non-objective point like bob did?

and as much as people claim this is propaganda for the military gun-ho side, think about this: these movies come out once every few years if at all, the anti-war, west is wrong, and military is bad movie comes out almost every year.
Avatar
Platoon
Generation Kill
Shooter
ect.

And frankly i want to see a 'john Wayne style green beret' movie to balance all this shit out. Its annoying. At least when the Pro troop movie is out, its at least somewhat subtle and less preachy, aside from this movie we have only like, Black Hawk Down and the green berets.

Yes, Generation Kill and its hardline anti-military statements

not sure what you are getting at because that is not a complete sentence.

I think he's trying to say that Generation Kill isn't really anti-war. To me it just showed us what it was like to be on the front lines during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

if thats the case i disagree entirely because from what i gather the guy who wrote the book (who work for rolling stone which i would call less of a news organization than what people claim fox news is) took some liberties with the story.
and frankly i havent found much to the mini series authenticity besides people and places.

 

[Alandoril]

Propaganda, nothing more and nothing less. The fact that it doesn't look like it is what makes it so effective.

 

[Simonism451]

i wonder how many people on this site will criticize the movie only on a political standpoint and not an non-objective point like bob did?

and as much as people claim this is propaganda for the military gun-ho side, think about this: these movies come out once every few years if at all, the anti-war, west is wrong, and military is bad movie comes out almost every year.
Avatar
Platoon
Generation Kill
Shooter
ect.

And frankly i want to see a 'john Wayne style green beret' movie to balance all this shit out. Its annoying. At least when the Pro troop movie is out, its at least somewhat subtle and less preachy, aside from this movie we have only like, Black Hawk Down and the green berets.

Yes, Generation Kill and its hardline anti-military statements

not sure what you are getting at because that is not a complete sentence.

I think he's trying to say that Generation Kill isn't really anti-war. To me it just showed us what it was like to be on the front lines during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

if thats the case i disagree entirely because from what i gather the guy who wrote the book (who work for rolling stone which i would call less of a news organization than what people claim fox news is) took some liberties with the story.
and frankly i havent found much to the mini series authenticity besides people and places.

Apart from the fact that "Marine commanders [...] encouraged the officers of 1st Reconnaissance to read the book and the articles to get an insight into the reality of war."
Or at least that's what the liberal media news site wikipedia (actually the New York Times) claims.
I wouldn't know about you but at least I ended up with more respect for the soldiers in Iraq (if not for the war) after watching the series than I had before.
PS:This thread is derailing LIKE A BOSS

 

[Treblaine]

Propaganda, nothing more and nothing less. The fact that it doesn't look like it is what makes it so effective.

Propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/propaganda

This movie is distinctly apolitical as movie-bob and others point out. It presents an as-authentic-as-possible depiction of the method of war. No idealisation to trick people into joining up, it even uses live ammunition as much as possible and doesn't hide or sanitize the human cost.

To call this film propaganda is really being illiterate on the use of that word.

Just because it DOESN'T have a political commentary that War-X should be abandoned or FAILS to vilify a military organisation doesn't make it propaganda, as if there is some responsibility to make negative political commentary. A lot of people seem to object to this film more because it is NOT propaganda... not propaganda in the sense that Oliver Stone's Platoon propaganda of isolationist political message.

 

[Simonism451]

Propaganda, nothing more and nothing less. The fact that it doesn't look like it is what makes it so effective.

Propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/propaganda

This movie is distinctly apolitical as movie-bob and others point out. It presents an as-authentic-as-possible depiction of the method of war. No idealisation to trick people into joining up, it even uses live ammunition as much as possible and doesn't hide or sanitize the human cost.

To call this film propaganda is really being illiterate on the use of that word.

Just because it DOESN'T have a political commentary that War-X should be abandoned or FAILS to vilify a military organisation doesn't make it propaganda, as if there is some responsibility to make negative political commentary. A lot of people seem to object to this film more because it is NOT propaganda... not propaganda in the sense that Oliver Stone's Platoon propaganda of isolationist political message.

Well, you could argue that by portraying the SEALs as totally cool heroes that are making sure you don't have to live in fear from evil Russians/Mexicans/Arabs, the film does promote a political cause, especially since Navy officials openly describe it as a way to get new recruits for the SEALs

Rear Adm. Denny Moynihan, of the Navy Office of Information in Washington, explained that every four years the Defense Department "looks at itself and says, 'What is it that you need to be moving forward, and where do you think you are?' " He added, "For the Navy and the SEAL community it was, 'Hey, you need 500 more SEALs' and that launched a series of initiatives to try to attract more people. This film was one of those initiatives."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/movies/act-of-valor-film-with-active-duty-members-of-navy-seals.html?_r=1
As for the biased and misleading part: Biased, certainly, since everything is. I'm not gonna comment on misleading because the ensuing discussion won't help anyone.

 

[BrotherRool]

This is quite an interesting review of the film, talking about it's role as a propoganda tool and it's portrayal of fighting, compared to Hell and Back Again a documentary released on the same day, following a soldier through his actual experiences and with actual battles instead of training exercises.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120222/REVIEWS/120229991

This movie is distinctly apolitical as movie-bob and others point out...

To call this film propaganda is really being illiterate on the use of that word.

Just to point out, in many many many ways apolitical is far worse. Wars are political, wars should be political, if you fight a war you better have a frickin' good reason and believe in it to the core. To show war without looking long and hard at the justification is a fools game. In the review above, the other film the documentary, shows how honestly the soldier believes in the freedom he's bringing to Afghanistan and shows the problems it causes when the people there tell him they just want to be left alone. That is honest and that is apolitical because it looks for the answer and then doesn't provide one.

Also:

Illiterate

adjective

unable to read or write: his parents were illiterate
[with submodifier] ignorant in a particular subject or activity: the extent to which voters are politically illiterate
(of a piece of writing) showing a lack of education; badly written: as you can see, I have corrected your misspelt, illiterate letter

noun

a person who is unable to read or write.

Illiterate, that word you keep using, I don't think it means what you think it means

 

[kuolonen]

Considering the fact that you are a movie critic I doubt anyone would have thought that you would be criticising the field performance of aformentioned soldiers instead of their acting.

Seeing as how you've joined escapist back in 2008, I take the liberty of assuming that you have used internet for more than 3years now. Have you seriously not met enough people on the internet to make such assumptions?

Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if Bob had received death threats with any less silky handed approach.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

I guess the scene where they piss on a dead enemy was cut out. lol.

I kid. For me the best army films are those like Black Hawk Down. Complete cluster fuck of a mission, but who the troops deal with the situation is what makes them heros. How they survive the odds. If that was filmed in the 80's they would have had 4 men steam somalia with miniguns and rescue everyone and defeat every enemy without getting hurt. Will, apart from one guy who would have the rpg lodged in his stomach, but would suck it up, label it a flesh wound and continue to fight as he is a hero.

 

[Ashley Blalock]

Given the political atmosphere of the United States I can kind of see why Bob had to go into such a long disclaimer that he was being critical of the movie and not the Navy SEAL team.

You have a small but very vocal minority in the US that thinks the military can do no wrong. Every war and every action is totally justified and to even question any action taken by the military is tantamount to treason. The people who would have a "Shoot 'em all let God sort 'em out" bumper sticker on their pick up truck.

Then you have a small but very vocal minority in the US who thinks that the military never does anything right. Anything that shows the US military in a positive light is an evil propaganda plot to brain wash the masses into supporting an out of control military.

In the vast middle you have most Americans who don't have blinders on either way to see the military as always right or always wrong. They see the military as being just as human as the rest of us. The middle just isn't as vocal as the shouting pro-military and anti-military people.

Even in a neutral film like The Hurt Locker you had the pro-military and anti-military people attempting to turn the movie into an argument for their side.

 

[Jegsimmons]

i wonder how many people on this site will criticize the movie only on a political standpoint and not an non-objective point like bob did?

and as much as people claim this is propaganda for the military gun-ho side, think about this: these movies come out once every few years if at all, the anti-war, west is wrong, and military is bad movie comes out almost every year.
Avatar
Platoon
Generation Kill
Shooter
ect.

And frankly i want to see a 'john Wayne style green beret' movie to balance all this shit out. Its annoying. At least when the Pro troop movie is out, its at least somewhat subtle and less preachy, aside from this movie we have only like, Black Hawk Down and the green berets.

Yes, Generation Kill and its hardline anti-military statements

not sure what you are getting at because that is not a complete sentence.

I think he's trying to say that Generation Kill isn't really anti-war. To me it just showed us what it was like to be on the front lines during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

if thats the case i disagree entirely because from what i gather the guy who wrote the book (who work for rolling stone which i would call less of a news organization than what people claim fox news is) took some liberties with the story.
and frankly i havent found much to the mini series authenticity besides people and places.

Apart from the fact that "Marine commanders [...] encouraged the officers of 1st Reconnaissance to read the book and the articles to get an insight into the reality of war."
Or at least that's what the liberal media news site wikipedia (actually the New York Times) claims.
I wouldn't know about you but at least I ended up with more respect for the soldiers in Iraq (if not for the war) after watching the series than I had before.
PS:This thread is derailing LIKE A BOSS

i dont trust new york times, they do have a noticeable bias.

 

[Simonism451]

i wonder how many people on this site will criticize the movie only on a political standpoint and not an non-objective point like bob did?

and as much as people claim this is propaganda for the military gun-ho side, think about this: these movies come out once every few years if at all, the anti-war, west is wrong, and military is bad movie comes out almost every year.
Avatar
Platoon
Generation Kill
Shooter
ect.

And frankly i want to see a 'john Wayne style green beret' movie to balance all this shit out. Its annoying. At least when the Pro troop movie is out, its at least somewhat subtle and less preachy, aside from this movie we have only like, Black Hawk Down and the green berets.

Yes, Generation Kill and its hardline anti-military statements

not sure what you are getting at because that is not a complete sentence.

I think he's trying to say that Generation Kill isn't really anti-war. To me it just showed us what it was like to be on the front lines during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

if thats the case i disagree entirely because from what i gather the guy who wrote the book (who work for rolling stone which i would call less of a news organization than what people claim fox news is) took some liberties with the story.
and frankly i havent found much to the mini series authenticity besides people and places.

Apart from the fact that "Marine commanders [...] encouraged the officers of 1st Reconnaissance to read the book and the articles to get an insight into the reality of war."
Or at least that's what the liberal media news site wikipedia (actually the New York Times) claims.
I wouldn't know about you but at least I ended up with more respect for the soldiers in Iraq (if not for the war) after watching the series than I had before.
PS:This thread is derailing LIKE A BOSS

i dont trust new york times, they do have a noticeable bias.

As opposed to fox news...