Great review but I'm a bit disappointed about the lack of a call-back regarding Ghost Rider 2. I'm going to guess the 'it's bad' rumors were true. Honestly wasn't planning on watching this one anyway to be honest.
I saw it (Ghost Rider 2) today.. I thought it was quite fun. But I imagine there was no big government paycheck in the mail for Bob gushing his love for Ghost Rider.Shoggoth2588 said:Great review but I'm a bit disappointed about the lack of a call-back regarding Ghost Rider 2. I'm going to guess the 'it's bad' rumors were true. Honestly wasn't planning on watching this one anyway to be honest.
Uh, in the review he reiterates his dislike of The Expendables and Transformers. In this he actually makes a distinction between war films that glorify violence for entertainment and those that emphasise its horror for "entertainment". He objects to films that sell war as a fun adventure rather than a terrifying challenge, THAT would be a propaganda war film.Sylveria said:Hey remember when Bob shat all over The Expendables and the Transformer movies for being a Hoo-Rah gunwank films that served to appeal to red-staters and the stupid, common, movie-going audience, as he put it, and was just military worship and ass kissing?
Now he sits here praising what is literally hoo-rah gunwank military worship made by and for the military to appeal to red-staters and "stupid people." Not to mention he spends a good 30% of his review just slobbering all over the navy's junk.
What Bob, scared?
I think there's one more thing to these disclaimers that we're all missing: This is MovieBob's job, and while a major newspaper can take a PR hit after a more zealous critical review of such material, the Escapist cannot. If he opted to go all-out critical on this review as if it were Transformers, there would be three possible consequences:I say old chap said:Yes, a lot of apologetics.Zhukov said:I think it says a lot that half that video consisted of apologetic disclaimers.
Shame they went and included the wankier aspects. One would think this movie would have presented a good opportunity to avoid that stuff.
Bob can never escape that he is an American, and with that often comes a positive view of American soldiers. He never acknowledges they, the SEALs are jobbers, highly trained killers. He can't sit back either and appreciate the Americans through their military power, are not the good guys, or at least, can't claim to be the good guys all the time. The American mind rarely escapes and soberly examines the "American heroes" of the American military. He knows the populace get fed propaganda, but doesn't think how the propaganda affects his perceptions.
Considering the fact that you are a movie critic I doubt anyone would have thought that you would be criticising the field performance of aformentioned soldiers instead of their acting.MovieBob said:Okay, just wanna jump in here for a minute: My "disclaimer" had nothing to do with "apologizing" to the Army or anyone else. I simply wanted to make sure my (very) specific criticisms were understood to be in the context I intended them.
This particular film presents a very unique situation for critical analysis, as many of the action sequences are made up in part by footage of the SEAL operators engaged in (and my exact terminology may be incorrect here) live-fire exercises - i.e. we are effectively watching them run "drills" for their actual techniques/operations during which they were both dodging and returning potentially-lethal gunfire. Thusly, I wanted it understood that when I talked about "performance" in a critical way I was talking specifically about stuff like acting, projection, etc. and NOT "field performance" in the exercises themselves which I'm in no way qualified to judge.
And if some foreign pirates start picking off all your maritime trade on the other side of the world, as happened after less than a generation of American independence with only a national guard? (see self-description above)No country needs a force larger than a national guard, with a secret service to pick up delicate operations. Thats the truth of it.
So the most realistic part of the movie is the bullet moving too fast to see, lol. Because I'm sure the tracer rounds were faked.they shot much of the film using LIVE AMMUNITION!
if thats the case i disagree entirely because from what i gather the guy who wrote the book (who work for rolling stone which i would call less of a news organization than what people claim fox news is) took some liberties with the story.Thunderpants said:I think he's trying to say that Generation Kill isn't really anti-war. To me it just showed us what it was like to be on the front lines during Operation Iraqi Freedom.Jegsimmons said:not sure what you are getting at because that is not a complete sentence.Simonism451 said:Yes, Generation Kill and its hardline anti-military statementsJegsimmons said:i wonder how many people on this site will criticize the movie only on a political standpoint and not an non-objective point like bob did?
and as much as people claim this is propaganda for the military gun-ho side, think about this: these movies come out once every few years if at all, the anti-war, west is wrong, and military is bad movie comes out almost every year.
Avatar
Platoon
Generation Kill
Shooter
ect.
And frankly i want to see a 'john Wayne style green beret' movie to balance all this shit out. Its annoying. At least when the Pro troop movie is out, its at least somewhat subtle and less preachy, aside from this movie we have only like, Black Hawk Down and the green berets.
Apart from the fact that "Marine commanders [...] encouraged the officers of 1st Reconnaissance to read the book and the articles to get an insight into the reality of war."Jegsimmons said:if thats the case i disagree entirely because from what i gather the guy who wrote the book (who work for rolling stone which i would call less of a news organization than what people claim fox news is) took some liberties with the story.Thunderpants said:I think he's trying to say that Generation Kill isn't really anti-war. To me it just showed us what it was like to be on the front lines during Operation Iraqi Freedom.Jegsimmons said:not sure what you are getting at because that is not a complete sentence.Simonism451 said:Yes, Generation Kill and its hardline anti-military statementsJegsimmons said:i wonder how many people on this site will criticize the movie only on a political standpoint and not an non-objective point like bob did?
and as much as people claim this is propaganda for the military gun-ho side, think about this: these movies come out once every few years if at all, the anti-war, west is wrong, and military is bad movie comes out almost every year.
Avatar
Platoon
Generation Kill
Shooter
ect.
And frankly i want to see a 'john Wayne style green beret' movie to balance all this shit out. Its annoying. At least when the Pro troop movie is out, its at least somewhat subtle and less preachy, aside from this movie we have only like, Black Hawk Down and the green berets.
and frankly i havent found much to the mini series authenticity besides people and places.
Alandoril said:Propaganda, nothing more and nothing less. The fact that it doesn't look like it is what makes it so effective.
Well, you could argue that by portraying the SEALs as totally cool heroes that are making sure you don't have to live in fear from evil Russians/Mexicans/Arabs, the film does promote a political cause, especially since Navy officials openly describe it as a way to get new recruits for the SEALsTreblaine said:Alandoril said:Propaganda, nothing more and nothing less. The fact that it doesn't look like it is what makes it so effective.
Propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/propaganda
This movie is distinctly apolitical as movie-bob and others point out. It presents an as-authentic-as-possible depiction of the method of war. No idealisation to trick people into joining up, it even uses live ammunition as much as possible and doesn't hide or sanitize the human cost.
To call this film propaganda is really being illiterate on the use of that word.
Just because it DOESN'T have a political commentary that War-X should be abandoned or FAILS to vilify a military organisation doesn't make it propaganda, as if there is some responsibility to make negative political commentary. A lot of people seem to object to this film more because it is NOT propaganda... not propaganda in the sense that Oliver Stone's Platoon propaganda of isolationist political message.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/movies/act-of-valor-film-with-active-duty-members-of-navy-seals.html?_r=1NYTimes said:Rear Adm. Denny Moynihan, of the Navy Office of Information in Washington, explained that every four years the Defense Department "looks at itself and says, 'What is it that you need to be moving forward, and where do you think you are?' " He added, "For the Navy and the SEAL community it was, 'Hey, you need 500 more SEALs' and that launched a series of initiatives to try to attract more people. This film was one of those initiatives."
Just to point out, in many many many ways apolitical is far worse. Wars are political, wars should be political, if you fight a war you better have a frickin' good reason and believe in it to the core. To show war without looking long and hard at the justification is a fools game. In the review above, the other film the documentary, shows how honestly the soldier believes in the freedom he's bringing to Afghanistan and shows the problems it causes when the people there tell him they just want to be left alone. That is honest and that is apolitical because it looks for the answer and then doesn't provide one.Treblaine said:This movie is distinctly apolitical as movie-bob and others point out...
To call this film propaganda is really being illiterate on the use of that word.
Illiterate, that word you keep using, I don't think it means what you think it meansOxford Dictionary said:Illiterate
adjective
unable to read or write: his parents were illiterate
[with submodifier] ignorant in a particular subject or activity: the extent to which voters are politically illiterate
(of a piece of writing) showing a lack of education; badly written: as you can see, I have corrected your misspelt, illiterate letter
noun
a person who is unable to read or write.
Seeing as how you've joined escapist back in 2008, I take the liberty of assuming that you have used internet for more than 3years now. Have you seriously not met enough people on the internet to make such assumptions?Vault Citizen said:Considering the fact that you are a movie critic I doubt anyone would have thought that you would be criticising the field performance of aformentioned soldiers instead of their acting.
i dont trust new york times, they do have a noticeable bias.Simonism451 said:Apart from the fact that "Marine commanders [...] encouraged the officers of 1st Reconnaissance to read the book and the articles to get an insight into the reality of war."Jegsimmons said:if thats the case i disagree entirely because from what i gather the guy who wrote the book (who work for rolling stone which i would call less of a news organization than what people claim fox news is) took some liberties with the story.Thunderpants said:I think he's trying to say that Generation Kill isn't really anti-war. To me it just showed us what it was like to be on the front lines during Operation Iraqi Freedom.Jegsimmons said:not sure what you are getting at because that is not a complete sentence.Simonism451 said:Yes, Generation Kill and its hardline anti-military statementsJegsimmons said:i wonder how many people on this site will criticize the movie only on a political standpoint and not an non-objective point like bob did?
and as much as people claim this is propaganda for the military gun-ho side, think about this: these movies come out once every few years if at all, the anti-war, west is wrong, and military is bad movie comes out almost every year.
Avatar
Platoon
Generation Kill
Shooter
ect.
And frankly i want to see a 'john Wayne style green beret' movie to balance all this shit out. Its annoying. At least when the Pro troop movie is out, its at least somewhat subtle and less preachy, aside from this movie we have only like, Black Hawk Down and the green berets.
and frankly i havent found much to the mini series authenticity besides people and places.
Or at least that's what the liberal media news site wikipedia (actually the New York Times) claims.
I wouldn't know about you but at least I ended up with more respect for the soldiers in Iraq (if not for the war) after watching the series than I had before.
PS:This thread is derailing LIKE A BOSS
As opposed to fox news...Jegsimmons said:i dont trust new york times, they do have a noticeable bias.Simonism451 said:Apart from the fact that "Marine commanders [...] encouraged the officers of 1st Reconnaissance to read the book and the articles to get an insight into the reality of war."Jegsimmons said:if thats the case i disagree entirely because from what i gather the guy who wrote the book (who work for rolling stone which i would call less of a news organization than what people claim fox news is) took some liberties with the story.Thunderpants said:I think he's trying to say that Generation Kill isn't really anti-war. To me it just showed us what it was like to be on the front lines during Operation Iraqi Freedom.Jegsimmons said:not sure what you are getting at because that is not a complete sentence.Simonism451 said:Yes, Generation Kill and its hardline anti-military statementsJegsimmons said:i wonder how many people on this site will criticize the movie only on a political standpoint and not an non-objective point like bob did?
and as much as people claim this is propaganda for the military gun-ho side, think about this: these movies come out once every few years if at all, the anti-war, west is wrong, and military is bad movie comes out almost every year.
Avatar
Platoon
Generation Kill
Shooter
ect.
And frankly i want to see a 'john Wayne style green beret' movie to balance all this shit out. Its annoying. At least when the Pro troop movie is out, its at least somewhat subtle and less preachy, aside from this movie we have only like, Black Hawk Down and the green berets.
and frankly i havent found much to the mini series authenticity besides people and places.
Or at least that's what the liberal media news site wikipedia (actually the New York Times) claims.
I wouldn't know about you but at least I ended up with more respect for the soldiers in Iraq (if not for the war) after watching the series than I had before.
PS:This thread is derailing LIKE A BOSS