Escape to the Movies: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - Dark and Action-Packed

[PuckFuppet]

Why bring up Bush? Obama has been in charge for 5 years (longer than the USA fought in WWII) and things have only gotten worse.

Primarily because it's kind of blatant that the film's frame-of-reference IS predominantly (its opinion of) 9-11 and Iraq re: "Battle of New York = 9-11, New S.H.I.E.L.D = Iraq War." It's not really subtle in that regard, and those are both decidedly Bush-era issues. There are other, later plot elements of the film that could be be construed as references to policies of the current administration, but they're nowhere near as specific.

I can't even discuss this without spoilers, so I won't, but having had the benefit of a week or so to think about the film (and those later plot elements) I disagree. If anything all of the preceding referencing of potential Bush administration related political discourse was just to set up the knock it out of the park reaction to the Widow/Caps play at the end of film, namely that despite it being blatantly obvious that they did the broadly _right_ thing in the situation they're both considered the "bad guys" regardless of whatever other qualifiers might apply because of the preceding context.

While that stuff was largely Bush administration stuff it was just there to set up the third act which has far more relevance to the political landscape in America because of this.

 

[Ashley Blalock]

I must admit that I was somewhat worried that dark tone was going to mean Marvel was going to be like DC and what seems like every other film out there. Good to hear that serious doesn't mean having to turn the hero into something dark, brooding, and nothing like the character you used to know.

I'll catch it Saturday even if a good box office does nothing to convince Hollywood that every hero doesn't have to be Batman.

 

[GoodNewsOke]

Not too surprising to see Bob liking it. I saw it twice already and might go again should the opportunity rise.

It's a really fun flick and I particularly like the Winter Soldier as a character. I'm hoping that they use him again in a future film. And I'm already looking forward to seeing how they will use one of the villains introduced here...

 

[Falterfire]

He's right though? Bob has given every Marvel film a tongue bath up to yet, regardless of quality. I don't see the harm in pointing out a reviewers readily apparent bias towards a certain intellectual property, studio, individual etc.

There's nothing wrong with a reviewer having a bit of bias but I'm just tired of hearing literally the exact same praise heaped on Marvel film after Marvel film even when they're pretty bad. It's cool though, soon enough Marvel will churn out another film that will be described as the best thing since The Avengers.

Alright, let's say that hypothetically, MovieBob legitimately enjoyed a Marvel movie (Weird, I know). After seeing it and legitimately enjoying it, he opts to give a glowing review. Then, after watching the next one and enjoying it, he also wants to give it a glowing review.

What would you have him do? Post a glowing review (because he enjoyed the movie) or trash it in order to avoid appearing biased? Or are you implying that the movies are secretly terrible but he's propping them up anyways out of misguided fanboy-ism?

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I'm glad to hear that Cap doesn't forget who he is, or that they try to change his character to make him fit the times better. That's the main reason why he is my favorite superhero out of all of the Avengers, and why I like his first movie the most out of all the pre-Avengers movies. It's so refreshing to have a hero who does what he does because it simply the right thing to do, but doesn't come off as high and mighty, or needs to have some tragic backstory, or is a messed up jerk, or any of the other countless things that so many heroes seem to have nowadays.

 

[Sonicron]

Been hearing very mixed reviews on this one, and I'm beginning to get a bad feeling about it. I'll still go see it at some point in the next few weeks, but I have a sneaking suspicion this could be yet another case of Bob and me perceiving a movie completely differently. (For example: Didn't like Iron Man 2 and Prince of Persia, liked Robin Hood and Man of Steel.)

 

[cerebus23]

Thought it was a great movie easily the best marvel movie i have seen and i agree the others have been highly overrated, especially by bob.

but this was a REALLY good movie, and really relevant to current events, i was impressed.

Boy do we need a real life captain america more than ever now.

 

[Makabriel]

Bob liked a Marvel comic movie? Color me amazed! Really I don't even need to watch these videos because I can ESP out the conclusion.

What do you want him to do? Loudly defame a movie he enjoyed just so he doesn't look like a sellout?

If you don't enjoy Marvel movies for whatever reason of your own, then fine, but for those of us who enjoy them this WAS a good movie, so of course the review was positive.

He's right though? Bob has given every Marvel film a tongue bath up to yet, regardless of quality. I don't see the harm in pointing out a reviewers readily apparent bias towards a certain intellectual property, studio, individual etc.

There's nothing wrong with a reviewer having a bit of bias but I'm just tired of hearing literally the exact same praise heaped on Marvel film after Marvel film even when they're pretty bad. It's cool though, soon enough Marvel will churn out another film that will be described as the best thing since The Avengers.

But... that's how improvement goes? If your next work doesn't improve to the one before it, then you're not doing your job. They -want- every movie to be the best before it. And (IMO) there's hasn't been a bad Marvel movie yet. and they do keep getting better.

Honestly, I was surprised the review didn't have more exuberance and praise for the movie, considering it's probably going to top Avengers as well as be the top grossing April movie ever.

Captcha: Brand Lift. Go Marvel!(tm)

 

[spwatkins]

I still haven't watched Agents of Shield because I work that night, don't have a DVR, and have bad memories of dealing with ABC's video player trying to watch Castle a couple years ago.

Anybody familiar with Captain America outside of the film universe already knows who The Winter Soldier is, but I appreciate Bob's spoiler free review. The actions aren't the spoilers, but the reasons behind the actions are. The trailers already spoil the whole "who's good, who's bad" angle of the movie, and I think they show TWS' face a few times.

FYI it plays without any issues on Hulu although it's too late to see most of the episodes.

 

[o_d]

I was disappointed to be honest. Like other Marvel sequels the story, for me, had its feet too far planted in both the past and the future of Marvel's universe. The reveal of who the Big Bads are working for is just a twist for the sake of referencing the older films and adds nothing to the stakes of the movie: it just replaces SHIELD becoming bad with an organisation that always was. The Winter Soldier, conversely, is only really in the movie to set up his encounters in future films, and is only made 'important to the story' by, again, linking him to the events of previous films. The film could function perfectly fine by just replacing him with common henchmen; which is a shame because he was an intimidating presence.

The problem I have with all these 'references' is that, for me, they bogged the movie down. Everything to do with Rodgers coping with no longer being in his time I really enjoyed, because, even though it featured throwbacks to The First Avenger it reinforced his ideals, his isolation, and made his trepidation over SHIELD all the more believable. Conversely, they do bugger all with showing how he reacts to The Winter Soldier's identity, which just reinforces the point that these were references and twists just for the sake of it.

 

[webby]

Alright, let's say that hypothetically, MovieBob legitimately enjoyed a Marvel movie (Weird, I know). After seeing it and legitimately enjoying it, he opts to give a glowing review. Then, after watching the next one and enjoying it, he also wants to give it a glowing review.

What would you have him do? Post a glowing review (because he enjoyed the movie) or trash it in order to avoid appearing biased? Or are you implying that the movies are secretly terrible but he's propping them up anyways out of misguided fanboy-ism?

I'm not saying anything like any of those. Marvel have made some good films and some bad ones and Bob has over hyped them all. It seems to stem from the fact that he's a huge fan of the single universe continuity stuff and because Marvel are riding a wave of goodwill after The Avengers. That's fine and everything but after he gave both Iron Man 2 and 3 the same effusive praise despite both films being the wrong side of average it means whenever he gives Marvel lots of praise whilst brushing issues under the carpet I put it down to, for want of a better term, "fanboy-ism". Bob even admits that he was over the top in his praise of Iron Man 2 before doing the exact same thing with Iron Man 3, this isn't exactly a new trend.

But... that's how improvement goes? If your next work doesn't improve to the one before it, then you're not doing your job. They -want- every movie to be the best before it. And (IMO) there's hasn't been a bad Marvel movie yet. and they do keep getting better.

Honestly, I was surprised the review didn't have more exuberance and praise for the movie, considering it's probably going to top Avengers as well as be the top grossing April movie ever.

They may want every movie to be an improvement on the last but I disagree that they have been. That's all personal preference of course but it doesn't stop the same praise (often using the exact same wording) being lazy in addition to being inaccurate.

e: So to quickly summarise. I feel a film should have to stand on its own 2 feet, recent Marvel films haven't managed that. Bob sweeps that, along with any other valid criticism, under the carpet in favour of over the top praise that I have often literally heard from him before about other films that have already failed to meet expectations.

 

[Jaeke]

I loved this movie for so many reasons but one of the best parts of the movies for me was a blink or you miss it, one line of dialog where someone actually name droped Doctor Strange. The fanboy in me went crazy.

Plus the movie has actualy got me watching Agents of Shield again which is no small feat.

I barely caught the end of it and wasn't sure if I heard right and when I turned to my friend to confirm it he was already fangirl'ing all over the place.

Spoiler: But when we saw the first Post-credits scene

I absolutely shrieked at seeing Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. I yelled at loud, as did the rest of the fans who knew what they were looking at. I seriously just don't know HOW they were able to pull off including them in the MCU

Oh... also

Spoiler: The quote

on Nick Fury's gravestone that referenced Sam L Jackson's character Jules legendary monologue in Pulp Fiction. Apparently I was the only one that caught this because I almost blurted out before looking around and seeing that no one else saw it

 

[schwegburt]

I'm not saying anything like any of those. Marvel have made some good films and some bad ones and Bob has over hyped them all. It seems to stem from the fact that he's a huge fan of the single universe continuity stuff and because Marvel are riding a wave of goodwill after The Avengers. That's fine and everything but after he gave both Iron Man 2 and 3 the same effusive praise despite both films being the wrong side of average it means whenever he gives Marvel lots of praise whilst brushing issues under the carpet I put it down to, for want of a better term, "fanboy-ism". Bob even admits that he was over the top in his praise of Iron Man 2 before doing the exact same thing with Iron Man 3, this isn't exactly a new trend.

They may want every movie to be an improvement on the last but I disagree that they have been. That's all personal preference of course but it doesn't stop the same praise (often using the exact same wording) being lazy in addition to being inaccurate.

e: So to quickly summarise. I feel a film should have to stand on its own 2 feet, recent Marvel films haven't managed that. Bob sweeps that, along with any other valid criticism, under the carpet in favour of over the top praise that I have often literally heard from him before about other films that have already failed to meet expectations.

Webby. Bob's on record as having said both the original Superman AND Batman the Dark Knight are two of his favorite superhero movies. I think that alone shoots down any notion of Bob being a Marvel biased.

I don't know where your notion of Bob's over the top praise comes from. Bob criticized Thor 2 pretty heavily for fucking up the pacing. I also recall him picking at both Iron Man sequels for their problems.

Captain America 2 arguably stands on it's own feet as a great movie, a superb sequel and arguably the best of the Marvel universe. You criticize the Marvel movies for not standing alone well and that's valid on some points. But I love that they actually try to weave multiple narratives together and aren't afraid to stumble along that way. How Marvel composes the movies not so much as stand alone movies but elements in a universe, makes them very impressive since they're treading new ground. Marvel has habitually taken risks, smart risks and they have paid off well. Bob, critiques and many others obviously appreciate that and give the films more lee way in doing something new but not perfect.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Looks good but that one guy reminds me of Kai Leng...

 

[Bbleds]

So I'm fairly positive I know who "the guy" is because it just seemed really convenient considering some events in the previous film and the fact his identity was obviously being thrown around as a mystery. With that being said I'm sure I will thoroughly enjoy it (I'm really excited to see almost everyone on the board is agreement with this one considering CA was my favorite Marvel movie as well). Just hope the twist isn't just built around, " and the winter soldier was ......."

 

[scorptatious]

I was pleasantly surprised by this movie.

The plot twist in particular made my jaw drop.

Spoiler

The higher ups in S.H.I.E.L.D are actually Hydra. And for some reason I also really liked the whole reason why they wanted to kill certain people. The whole algorithm thing and predicting one's future through their records and test scores. It kinda makes sense. These people may end up in positions or develop mindsets that would threaten Hydra's dream of a world of complete control.

That's how I interpreted it anyway. Could be missing on some details.

 

[Kerric]

Wait, Spiderman is certainly a Marvel character and the boards go sour with people complaining how Bob Chipman can't stop complaining about the new Spiderman movies. Now people are complaining that he only gives them praise? Even after he comments on how terrible the early Hulk movie was? Even after he criticizes many of the Shield TV episodes? Or are you distinguishing studios and comic book companies? If it's the former, I think the compliments he gives ultimately come down to how the storytelling and the respect for the material is superior in the latest run of movies connected to the Avenger franchise, not with Marvel fan-boyism.

 

[daibakuha]

I just got back from seeing it tonight. This movie is fantastic.

 

[Callate]

It's a good movie, with strong performances all the way around, and it does a great job of raising the stakes and making the audience feel the tension inherent in the atmosphere of fear and distrust that surrounds it.

About that physicality, though... (Small action-related spoilers ahead.)

Spoiler

So, yeah, this is a personal level-of-disbelief thing, and your mileage may vary, and all; if you feel the need to pull out the "it's a comic book movie" club, well, I suppose I can't hold it against you just this once.

Still, as we have made a live-action movie out of that comic book, and have a reasonable expectation of something vaguely approaching real-world physics and physicality, at least in regard to our non-teched-up "mortal" heroes:

Okay, you're a biologically perfect human at your peak, more or less. You have great reflexes and training. You can fall fifty feet, tuck and roll, and come out running. Okay, fine. You're a master of parkour; good for you. You can fall maybe a hundred feet, land on your awesome shield, and walk away, though it looks like it hurts.

...You fall over four hundred feet into water, completely uncontrolled, with multiple bullet wounds in your torso? I'm sorry, your internal organs are going to burst, assuming they don't just escape your body through that wound.

That's also putting aside the injuries to Black Widow and Nick Fury, both of whom are allegedly more-or-less normal humans. Scenes after severe bullet-related trauma, they're back in action like nothing happened. I guess we have a lot more of that T.A.H.I.T.I. stuff from AoS than we've let on?

Also, having been to Washington D.C.: You do not start a firefight in the middle of a public street in Washington D.C. without a hundred cop cars and a SWAT team descending on you. These are people in charge of protecting all of the major apparatus of the U.S. government, and they are a presence in that city. I don't care what kind of powers SHIELD is supposed to have; a big gunfight in the middle of a (clearly) public street is going to bring down the hammer.

...Yes, yes, I know, comic-book action movie. And it's a good one, my nitpicking aside; I enjoyed it, honest. I just would have enjoyed it that tiniest bit more without that nagging going on in the back of my head that the movie is playing a little bit fast-and-loose with plausibility. Especially since it could have avoided those implausibilities.

 

[daxterx2005]

22 years was a good run