Escape to the Movies: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - Dark and Action-Packed

[SnakeoilSage]

Yeah, because George Soros, SEIU, AFL/CIO, NEA et al have never laid out a penny for politics, have they?

You mean George Soros the philanthropist? Or George Soros the "Nazi-sympathizer who is trying to bring about a new world order by destroying America's economy?" Because I'm curious to find out which one you believe is real. No, wait, I'm not. This discussion is over.

 

[mjharper]

Why bring up Bush? Obama has been in charge for 5 years (longer than the USA fought in WWII) and things have only gotten worse.

Kind of my thinking as well. Or if you're going to put up pictures, throw up an image of both Pres. Bush and Pres. Obama. As it is, it really betrays the reviewer's political leanings. (Which is totally okay, I get it, but it also feels completely unnecessary.)

Oh come on. Bob makes reference to 911 in several ways. What has Obama got to do with that? What has Obama got to do with pre-emptive strikes? Your argument is like saying we shouldn't reference Hitler anymore because Angela Merkel is Chancellor in Germany. Having accused Bob of showing his 'political leanings', you've clearly displayed your own with a nonsensical argument.

(No, I'm not comparing Bush to Hitler, and yes, I'm aware of Godwin.)

OT: Looks like it should be a fun film

Sorry, but your assumption is incorrect. From Mother Jones:

"Captain America: The Winter Soldier" Is About Obama's Terror-Suspect Kill List, Say the Film's Directors

http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2014/04/captain-america-winter-soldier-obama-kill-list-politics-drones-nsa

Liberals just can't NOT blame Bush/Cheney.

This is link bait over-simplification. The actual quote mentions several 'themes', some of which are indeed related to Obama. But no-where do the film's makers say that it is 'about' Obama. They're even quoted as saying they approached Robert Redford for his role in a 1975 movie that they thought was relevant. These are all 'themes', some more contemporary than others. But you're not convincing anyone with that article.

Non-liberals can't help but accuse liberals of being bigoted.

 

[Hammartroll]

Yeah, because George Soros, SEIU, AFL/CIO, NEA et al have never laid out a penny for politics, have they?

You mean George Soros the philanthropist? Or George Soros the "Nazi-sympathizer who is trying to bring about a new world order by destroying America's economy?" Because I'm curious to find out which one you believe is real. No, wait, I'm not. This discussion is over.

How is that any different than characterizing the Koch brothers as either philanthropists or evil corporate lobbyists? George Soros funds what he politically believes in just like the Koch brothers.

 

[Hammartroll]

Why bring up Bush? Obama has been in charge for 5 years (longer than the USA fought in WWII) and things have only gotten worse.

Kind of my thinking as well. Or if you're going to put up pictures, throw up an image of both Pres. Bush and Pres. Obama. As it is, it really betrays the reviewer's political leanings. (Which is totally okay, I get it, but it also feels completely unnecessary.)

Oh come on. Bob makes reference to 911 in several ways. What has Obama got to do with that? What has Obama got to do with pre-emptive strikes? Your argument is like saying we shouldn't reference Hitler anymore because Angela Merkel is Chancellor in Germany. Having accused Bob of showing his 'political leanings', you've clearly displayed your own with a nonsensical argument.

(No, I'm not comparing Bush to Hitler, and yes, I'm aware of Godwin.)

OT: Looks like it should be a fun film

Sorry, but your assumption is incorrect. From Mother Jones:

"Captain America: The Winter Soldier" Is About Obama's Terror-Suspect Kill List, Say the Film's Directors

http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2014/04/captain-america-winter-soldier-obama-kill-list-politics-drones-nsa

Liberals just can't NOT blame Bush/Cheney.

This is link bait over-simplification. The actual quote mentions several 'themes', some of which are indeed related to Obama. But no-where do the film's makers say that it is 'about' Obama. They're even quoted as saying they approached Robert Redford for his role in a 1975 movie that they thought was relevant. These are all 'themes', some more contemporary than others. But you're not convincing anyone with that article.

Non-liberals can't help but accuse liberals of being bigoted.

So in what ways do you, as an apparent liberal, disapprove of Obama?

 

[tzimize]

I keep being surprised by how much I like Captain America.

I knew nothing about him before the first film and made all the negative assumptions about him that you might expect a generally left-learning Brit to make about a superhero who wears an American flag as his costume.

"Captain America" was my favourite of the pre-Avengers Marvel movies and the Winter Soldier might end up as my favourite of the "phase 2" Marvel movies.

Agreed. Captain America is even more boring than Superman (as a character). The key to making him fun/interesting is to mess up his environment. This movie did the job perfectly. Set Cap on edge with the "good guys"...thats the best way to make him cool.

For comic-buffs I have to say, Cap has never been more awesome than what he was in the Civil War event. This was something similar.

 

[katsabas]

While I always make it a point to see Bob's reviews in general, he suffers from one essential drawback that stops him from being an even better reviewer.

I am not talking about being biased towards certain kinds of films, everyone has that to some degree, stems from our preferences when it comes to entertainment and it's completely logical and human. I am talking about that once he makes up his mind not to like a certain movie he will go all the way with that. Be it because it defiles something from childhood which again, it's only natural or because he thinks that it is not how he imagined it. Fine. It's all good and it's his opinion but I can't help but feel like I am watching the videos of someone who is extremely close minded.

I may be wrong about this, I haven't followed him throughout his job. Even so, I would really like to hear of films that once he saw them, made him pull a 180 on his opinion towards them.

On topic, it is pretty much marvel's response to the dark knight. The dilemmas are there, the action is there, everything is there and the movie is a full package. And the twist, oh good grief, the twist. Brilliant. Plus, a certain character who never in life had I ever thought of seeing or hearing from again in the movies, makes an amazing comeback here.

Amazing stuff. Will probably go watch again tomorrow cause there are two post credits scenes.

 

[HalfTangible]

Yeah... That twist partway through is so awesome... And the cameo from the congressman from Iron Man is so awesome... I'll assume you know what about it is so cool if you've seen the movie.

Though honestly I saw it more as a critique of modern america in general, rather than our reaction to 9/11 in particular. Especially considering that we haven't stopped ramping up our paranoia and security-over-freedom bullcrap since the Patriot Act. (NDAA and SOPA, anyone?)

Then again, I didn't see the Dark Knight's connection to the Patriot Act either, so maybe I'm just blind like that.

Also, the end credits scene. I wish I knew how to do spoiler boxes so I could call it now.

 

[romxxii]

Doesn't change the fact that the movie is that damned good.

Good. It was a light hearted jab at the end of the day, not a scathing criticism of either Bob or the film. I aren't sure why people are so quick to rush to his defence over this since one of Bobs own lines of logic is that reviews shouldn't come from a vacuum or hide the reviewers personal opinion. Pointing out that the favouritism is there doesn't negate the praise from the review, it just means that people should perhaps take it with a pinch of salt in the same way people shouldn't immediately think a JRPG is awful because Yahtzee doesn't like it.

I don't always agree with his reviews -- he's rather forgiving of films that he feels enters the "stupid fun" category, like The Immortals or I am Number Four. I hate those films with a passion. In fact, I've been watching Bob long enough to know how he'll review a film, and I don't really factor it in to my own opinion of said film.

Why do I watch? For the entertainment. Whether it's gushing fanboy or angry Boston nerdrage, Bob's reviews are always emotional, gut reactions, and the entertainment comes from how he uses his film background to quantify and give color to those emotions.

So. Why do I know The Winter Soldier is as good as Bob says? I've already seen it, thrice. Even before this review came up. I may go for one more screening, just for kicks. It may even see the film in all possible formats (film, digital 2D, digital 3D, IMAX), just like I did with the Avengers.

 

[SargeSmash]

Oh come on. Bob makes reference to 911 in several ways. What has Obama got to do with that? What has Obama got to do with pre-emptive strikes? Your argument is like saying we shouldn't reference Hitler anymore because Angela Merkel is Chancellor in Germany. Having accused Bob of showing his 'political leanings', you've clearly displayed your own with a nonsensical argument.

(No, I'm not comparing Bush to Hitler, and yes, I'm aware of Godwin.)

OT: Looks like it should be a fun film

My point is that many of the themes this film has hit on involve both Pres. Bush and Pres. Obama, and I would at least like some fairness or acknowledgement thereof. All the NSA and wiretapping stuff seems especially pertinent, and was one of the things I was thinking about before I went to see the film. After seeing it, that's definitely the case, and I'm not entirely sure how he just glossed over that. (It should also be noted that Pres. Obama hasn't exactly changed a whole lot of Bush's policies, and quite expanded them in many cases.)

I'm not entirely sure how I showed my political leanings, but making a call on his comes from this and other reviews he's done, so I don't exactly think I'm out of bounds for gleaning something of his worldview. I'm sure you have, too, and it just may be that you very much agree with him in this case.

Regardless, though, after seeing the film, it was very well done. It's definitely darker, which should be unsurprising. The fight sequences were pretty darn sweet, and Cap properly comes as awesome. Not only that, but I tend to like the "choir boy" types in films. We've got enough anti-heroes as it is, and having one like Cap is pretty refreshing.

 

[daibakuha]

Oh come on. Bob makes reference to 911 in several ways. What has Obama got to do with that? What has Obama got to do with pre-emptive strikes? Your argument is like saying we shouldn't reference Hitler anymore because Angela Merkel is Chancellor in Germany. Having accused Bob of showing his 'political leanings', you've clearly displayed your own with a nonsensical argument.

(No, I'm not comparing Bush to Hitler, and yes, I'm aware of Godwin.)

OT: Looks like it should be a fun film

My point is that many of the themes this film has hit on involve both Pres. Bush and Pres. Obama, and I would at least like some fairness or acknowledgement thereof. All the NSA and wiretapping stuff seems especially pertinent, and was one of the things I was thinking about before I went to see the film. After seeing it, that's definitely the case, and I'm not entirely sure how he just glossed over that. (It should also be noted that Pres. Obama hasn't exactly changed a whole lot of Bush's policies, and quite expanded them in many cases.)

I'm not entirely sure how I showed my political leanings, but making a call on his comes from this and other reviews he's done, so I don't exactly think I'm out of bounds for gleaning something of his worldview. I'm sure you have, too, and it just may be that you very much agree with him in this case.

Regardless, though, after seeing the film, it was very well done. It's definitely darker, which should be unsurprising. The fight sequences were pretty darn sweet, and Cap properly comes as awesome. Not only that, but I tend to like the "choir boy" types in films. We've got enough anti-heroes as it is, and having one like Cap is pretty refreshing.

I'm sorry Bob didn't check off all the boxes to please his huge conservative audience in his 5 minute review of a comic book movie that has more in common with political thrillers from the 70's than modern day abuse of power.

 

[Ukomba]

I find it funny you work so hard to stretch the movie back to the Bush administration. With all the domestic spying, drone strikes, and kill list, it seems to better fit a slightly more current administration. Even the director says it's meant to be direct slam on President Obama.

 

[cerebus23]

cause oboma should be tried for treason? yes he should each and every day that passes more and more stories prove what a lieing hyppocrite the man is. most corrupt illegal admin in ages. far surpassing bush by miles, but bush handed him the keys to make the excuses to do it.

 

[gorfias]

I loved this movie for so many reasons but one of the best parts of the movies for me was a blink or you miss it, one line of dialog where someone actually name droped Doctor Strange. The fanboy in me went crazy.

Plus the movie has actualy got me watching Agents of Shield again which is no small feat.

My buddy didn't even notice that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batroc_the_Leaper is a major character in Cap's continuity! I did mention to him that Strange's name had been dropped.

I think it important to note to audiences, while this is relatively serious, it is not dark and nihilistic like, say, "Man of Steele". It's a heck of a lot of fun. There's humor in it that is funny, not silly (there's a huge difference) rather than what we saw in Thor Dark World.

Best movie since Dark Knight. See it!

I find it funny you work so hard to stretch the movie back to the Bush administration. With all the domestic spying, drone strikes, and kill list, it seems to better fit a slightly more current administration. Even the director says it's meant to be direct slam on President Obama.

My very thought. Thanks for noting.

 

[mjharper]

Why bring up Bush? Obama has been in charge for 5 years (longer than the USA fought in WWII) and things have only gotten worse.

Kind of my thinking as well. Or if you're going to put up pictures, throw up an image of both Pres. Bush and Pres. Obama. As it is, it really betrays the reviewer's political leanings. (Which is totally okay, I get it, but it also feels completely unnecessary.)

Oh come on. Bob makes reference to 911 in several ways. What has Obama got to do with that? What has Obama got to do with pre-emptive strikes? Your argument is like saying we shouldn't reference Hitler anymore because Angela Merkel is Chancellor in Germany. Having accused Bob of showing his 'political leanings', you've clearly displayed your own with a nonsensical argument.

(No, I'm not comparing Bush to Hitler, and yes, I'm aware of Godwin.)

OT: Looks like it should be a fun film

Sorry, but your assumption is incorrect. From Mother Jones:

"Captain America: The Winter Soldier" Is About Obama's Terror-Suspect Kill List, Say the Film's Directors

http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2014/04/captain-america-winter-soldier-obama-kill-list-politics-drones-nsa

Liberals just can't NOT blame Bush/Cheney.

This is link bait over-simplification. The actual quote mentions several 'themes', some of which are indeed related to Obama. But no-where do the film's makers say that it is 'about' Obama. They're even quoted as saying they approached Robert Redford for his role in a 1975 movie that they thought was relevant. These are all 'themes', some more contemporary than others. But you're not convincing anyone with that article.

Non-liberals can't help but accuse liberals of being bigoted.

So in what ways do you, as an apparent liberal, disapprove of Obama?

Huh? What has that got to do with anything? The point was whether the movie was 'about' Obama, and whether the article linked 'proved' that it was. Neither is the case. The final sentence of my quote there was a tongue-in cheek paraphrasing of Professor Fate's final sentence.

Or do you expect me to prove my lack of bias about Obama by pointing out my what I think his flaws are? In which case, 1) I'm under no obligation to prove any such thing; 2) bias is the light in which you interpret information, not whether you are willing to concede flaws - that's a platitude; 3) as a non-American, I'm constantly amazed at how partisan American politics is, and have no interest in getting involved in a mud-slinging fest.

I will say this. Whatever you think about Obama, the world does not associate him with the War on Terror, missing WMDs, or Homeland Security. Talk about a devastating attack on America and the response to it, and no-one except the biased will think 'Obama!' instead of 'Bush!' That doesn't make this movie about Bush, but it does make him an appropriate reference, which is the only thing this discussion was about. And that's a fact, not an opinion.

 

[mjharper]

I find it funny you work so hard to stretch the movie back to the Bush administration. With all the domestic spying, drone strikes, and kill list, it seems to better fit a slightly more current administration. Even the director says it's meant to be direct slam on President Obama.

Did you read the article linked to, or just the title? Because the director said no such thing. He mentioned several themes, some of which were current, some of which stretched back to 70's spy thrillers. He mentioned 'zeitgeist', and you'd have to be mad to think that terrorist response started with Obama. That's not to say that the current political climate isn't relevant - the movie is trying to be contemporary, after all - but to think that it could be an analogy of Obama's response to terror, without being in any way about Bush's response to terror, is lunacy.

It's not 'hard' to stretch the movie back to Bush, it's hard not to.

 

[Ralancian]

It's not really about Bush or Obama. It's about the NSA doing what they belive is right to protect people since 9/11. Or are people naive enough to think the president really dictates exactly what every clandestine organisation does?

It started with Bush because he was advised to allow it and carried on with Obama because it's what the Security Agencies and Military are telling them it needs to be done for National Security. It we be very unlikely be any different is Gore, Kerry, McCain or Romney were in charge.

 

[K.ur]

War überrascht Kretschmann zu sehen, auch wenn es in einer Rolle wie dieser war.

 

[strumbore]

Saw this movie Friday. The action was very good (still doesn't touch "The Raid", but it's really something) but it's a very stupid movie. Everything is actually just fine and characters seem intelligent until about exactly the halfway point when the nature of the Ticking Time Bomb is revealed: "Giant gun in the sky". Stupid. Stupid. STUPID IDEA. A secret society's 75-year gestating plan is to staple tanks to the Goodyear Blimp (for precision targeting)? At no point did any of the villains in the drawing room before the movie takes place point out,

"Hey, you know, this might just make things MORE chaotic," or
"how does that target-predicting algorithm work again?" (Black Widow actually DOES ask this, LOL!) or,
"How does shooting enormous bullets into buildings distinguish individual, named threats?" or
"There's only 3 of these and they're literally moving block-to-block (world domination in 3 months?).", or--best of all:
"it would take any and every airfoce minutes to bomb one of these things out of the sky."

It's dumb. Turn your brain to the "off" position for maximum enjoyment.

 

[Stupidity]

"Hey, you know, this might just make things MORE chaotic," or
"how does that target-predicting algorithm work again?" (Black Widow actually DOES ask this, LOL!) or,
"How does shooting enormous bullets into buildings distinguish individual, named threats?" or
"There's only 3 of these and they're literally moving block-to-block (world domination in 3 months?).", or--best of all:
"it would take any and every airfoce minutes to bomb one of these things out of the sky."

Those hell-carriers were nothing like tanks. They are simply flying battleships including modern battleship missile defenses and if you remember the Avengers, they can go invisible. Trying to fight them with an airforce or even every airforce would be every kind of dumb. Wouldn't take long for some genius to airburst emp them though as there is no way that little server farms in the glass domes are emp hardened.

But ya, your right, the whole mysterious algorithm to find dissidents based on credit card purchases and test scores is more politics than science and the murder of millions of people by flying genocide battleships is a stupid stupid plan for world domination, especially when you've already been outed as the guys responsible.

I mean come on, those things weren't precision weapons, to get rid of 20 million targets they'd have to bomb the world into the stone age. kind of the opposite of bringing "Order" to the world.

 

[gorfias]

"Hey, you know, this might just make things MORE chaotic," or
"how does that target-predicting algorithm work again?" (Black Widow actually DOES ask this, LOL!) or,
"How does shooting enormous bullets into buildings distinguish individual, named threats?" or
"There's only 3 of these and they're literally moving block-to-block (world domination in 3 months?).", or--best of all:
"it would take any and every airfoce minutes to bomb one of these things out of the sky."

Those hell-carriers were nothing like tanks. They are simply flying battleships including modern battleship missile defenses and if you remember the Avengers, they can go invisible. Trying to fight them with an airforce or even every airforce would be every kind of dumb. Wouldn't take long for some genius to airburst emp them though as there is no way that little server farms in the glass domes are emp hardened.

But ya, your right, the whole mysterious algorithm to find dissidents based on credit card purchases and test scores is more politics than science and the murder of millions of people by flying genocide battleships is a stupid stupid plan for world domination, especially when you've already been outed as the guys responsible.

I mean come on, those things weren't precision weapons, to get rid of 20 million targets they'd have to bomb the world into the stone age. kind of the opposite of bringing "Order" to the world.

We actually have the tech. to do very similar things these helecarier things do. Lots of international law about them is likely the only reason they don't exist (outside of the drone bombings to target a problem person and kill him and anyone hanging out with him in that time zone.

The movie is a little too smug with itself in that, suppose the nightmare scenario Redford describes actually happens? There really are things to fear out there.

I do think all sorts of things can be gleaned with seemingly random information about people. That's why the government is getting so into collecting such data.