Escape to the Movies: Ender's Game

[pretzil]

Er... wasn't the new Thor film supposed to be coming out today and this next week?

Its so weird that US audiences have to wait till the 8th to see Thor 2, it came out 3 days ago here in Australia, the only reason I can think of is that Australians are so used to being months behind that they think no-one actually knows how to UPLOAD anything to the internet.

Btw, its getting hammered by some critics, but it is awesome, and HILARIOUS, so many 'film critics' aren't allowed to be happy with a comic book blockbuster no matter how good it is, unless Thor and Loki started making out in a cabin in the forest I guess...

 

[Habballah]

I stopped the review earlier because we hit spoilers about a min and half in.

and went to go see the movie. It's visually fun, the actors are good, and the ending ..... well
it's a fantastic movie for a sci fi movie.

I don't care if the guy behind it hates gay people. I'm fine with gay people but it's not every ones thing.
Tolerance doesn't mean i have to come running to help you out.

you know bob there's a 6 point scale that makes people like you give a real rank.

best movie ever
loved it
liked it

didn't like it
hated it
worst movie ever.

It cuts out all the pretension. Look into it

I loved it.

As a sci fit movie i'd put it at best movie ever just at how terrible and dry the genre has been.
It's a lean genre.

 

[Zing]

Ha. Card gets no money from me. I can't even pirate this trash knowing it came from that dudes mind.

Er... wasn't the new Thor film supposed to be coming out today and this next week?

Its so weird that US audiences have to wait till the 8th to see Thor 2, it came out 3 days ago here in Australia, the only reason I can think of is that Australians are so used to being months behind that they think no-one actually knows how to UPLOAD anything to the internet.

Btw, its getting hammered by some critics, but it is awesome, and HILARIOUS, so many 'film critics' aren't allowed to be happy with a comic book blockbuster no matter how good it is, unless Thor and Loki started making out in a cabin in the forest I guess...

I don't think anyone here has the upload bandwidth to upload movies.

edit: I can't find anything about JJ Abrams being difficult regarding Star Wars, what's Bob talking about?

 

[Petwins]

So it ain't great, but it ain't terrible, and Moviebob's upset they didn't do more than adapt it fairly accurately and the big twist isn't handled too well.

Fine by me. I'm in it for the tactics. That's why I loved the book.

sorry bro, they got a little of it but not too much, they got the battle with 2 armies right, and the formic battle but thats it

 

[Lord Krunk]

I know it's not exactly on topic for a film review but the whole brouhaha around the author does amuse me. Did you think that because he wrote a book he'd be a nice guy?

It's amusing when contrasted against the Internet and nerds generally and their "ermahgerd curtherler omg lervecrerft" attitude. I guess some people haven't been reading the books they supposedly love. Maybe this is something that as a Burzum fan I've just have to come to terms with but you can like a product without liking the producer.

The concept is called 'Death of the Author', the law in which criticism of all creative work should be distanced from its creator to truly quantify its merits.

It is also a concept that is lost on way too many people. Embarrassingly for me, the political left is usually the worst culprit.

It's a bit like the fans of the Beatles blaming Yoko Ono for the death of the Beatles. Sure, she might have, but she also made John Lennon happy, and that's what matters. As a few others on this thread have touched on before, the fact that he is against gay marriage (and, shock horror, actually donates to causes he cares about unlike the majority of haters), should not phase anyone who actually cares about the literature. There are people that they probably love, who are supporting much greater injustices.

I didn't even really get much of an idea of whether or not I'd like the movie from this review either. All I really got was 'they took too long to make an adaptation' and 'I hate Orson Scott Card, but won't say why'.

I do not personally agree with the man's views. But people really need to get over the fact that he's a famous Mormon.

EDIT: An example of greater injustices is President Obama, who is responsible for the deaths of hundreds, maybe thousands of innocent civilian men, women and children in Syria with his ordered drone strikes. But so long as he likes gay marriage, who cares, right?

 

[IamLEAM1983]

eck, just reading the synopsis of the book is enough to make me cringe, even now. the super miracle Caucasian genius boy genre is just not my cup of tea.

Same. I could stomach it in the Potterverse because there was enough whimsy and mythological research to keep me entertained, and it helped that Harry developed sensibly, over time. Ender's basically little more than an expy for military strategy fans and, well, the overall connotations to Ender's Game always made me uncomfortable.

I mean, I don't care how desperate your war effort gets or how receptive kids actually are; you just don't send children out to command adults! You don't expose young minds like that to potential genocide! Realistically, that would scar any kid! It's pretty much a borderline-serious indictment of Child Soldier issues because "hey, we're in Future Space, so it's totally fine" - but it really isn't.

I've studied Sci Fi. I've been told time and again that Ender's Game is one of the must-reads in the genre. I've made it through two thirds of the first novel before tossing it aside, vowing never to touch it again. It just feels so callous, so toxic and dangerously convinced of its own morals to me. Tack Card's usual bullshit on top of that and, well, no. Absolutely, positively, no.

 

[nondescript]

I never got Ender's Game. It was okay, but I always felt there were too many piece moving for me to keep track of who I should care about. Excising the earth scenes might make it a better movie for me. And for all the hate around Card, I never heard about it until 5 years ago. So either I don't care enough, or people are being louder about it.

 

[ShinobiJedi42]

I would just like to throw out for anyone interested that Ender's Game is my favorite novel and the best movie I've seen this year. I absolutely loved it. They had to take liberties with the story, which I was fine with because they had to condense a lot into a two hour movie. I felt they handled it well. It could have maybe been a little better, but I doubt it. This is likely the best effort you can make an adaptation of this book. As a fan of the entire series, I was weeping by the end. It was an incredible complex emotional journey. That being said, I disagree with about 90% of everything Bob said in this review, but I want to let other fans of the book and the movie know they're not alone.

 

[Machine Man 1992]

Unlike most modern artists, Card does not infuse his works with his political or religious leanings (I'm looking at you, Melissa Rosenberg and C.S. Lewis). This makes it really easy to separate the writer from his works. So, in my opinion, if you would like to see the movie because it's a good movie, then do that and forget the background noise for a couple hours.

Excuse me? The Ender books have a pretty good amount of barely hidden homophobia and anti-antisemitism. The Alvin Maker books are basically mormon fables, and Empire is a huge manifesto for his political views.

Also, while I have never read Maker, C.S. Lewis was not a political writer. Lewis infused his books with his religious beliefs, not his political beliefs. A very different thing, to be sure. Most people do not know, but Lewis was very much from the Kierkegaard/ MacDonald school of literary theology, i.e. he felt that politics itself was the enemy of humanity and humanity's search for spiritual truth. The only two major political stances he took were his opposition to WWI, and his acquiescence to WWII only once the Germans had begun bombing Britain. Also, later in his life, he married a famous Feminist and Socialist activist.

Also of note; C.S Lewis's books have religious themes to them, especially the Narnia books. But he wrote them just after converting to Christianity, and the themes and imagery come across less like a calculated statement and more an excited convert expressing his love of his new found faith through allegory. One is cynical, the other is idealist.

 

[Jadak]

Excuse me? The Ender books have a pretty good amount of barely hidden homophobia and anti-antisemitism. The Alvin Maker books are basically mormon fables, and Empire is a huge manifesto for his political views.

Really, I found the opposite to be true. No comment on the anti-semitism, but when I first read the book I found it closer to homoerotic than homophobic. Several scenes, notably the shower scene prior to violence, were written such that more attention was called to the male physique (young boys at that), than seemed a natural way to write the scene, to the point of being awkward.

Frankly, when I first started hearing about this anti-card stuff due to his homophobic views/actions, I was surprised. Reading the book had given me the impression that he had a certain fondness for the male form that does not correspond with his public views.

 

[Jacco]

When the fuck did it become horrible for people to hold different opinions?

Just because YOU disagree with Card's politics doesn't make them wrong. Nor does it make your right. If he gives money to "anti-gay" organizations, then that's his prerogative. Go give your money to pro-gay ones.

I am seriously tired of this way of thinking. For supposedly being the more "open minded," the pro-gay/left/whatever side tends to be very hostile to dissenting opinions.

 

[Tumedus]

Not that interested in the movie because it clearly dropped some of my favorite parts of the books.

That said, I would like to discuss the issue of OSC's beliefs. The issue extends beyond just what he believes. The larger problem is that Card is an active advocate and lobbyist for those anti-gay beliefs. It isn't just that you are supporting a bigot, its that you are indirectly funding a bigoted movement by giving him any money.

That is the line that a lot of people don't want to cross. It isn't about censorship and it isn't about the weight of his bigotry compared to worse crimes committed by others. It's that, in this particular situation, his involvement means that a portion of people's money goes into a cause that they are vehemently against.

I actually know quite a few people who take the exact same stance against Scientology. They simply won't see a movie that features a known scientologist because giving those actors money is essentially the same as giving it (a good portion of it anyway) directly to the church.

 

[DeaconOrlov]

The only real question is whether or not they will be able to make Speaker for the Dead or Xenocide. There's a good friggin story no matter how you slice. I almost hesitate to say this but, seriously, go ahead Hollywood, try and fuck those up.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

When the fuck did it become horrible for people to hold different opinions?

It isn't until those views begin to encroach on your liberty. This goes both ways; it is equally reprehensible to force a Priest to do something he morally objects to (marrying a gay couple) than it is to use your beliefs as a reason why a gay couple can't get married by someone who is willing to do it.

I am seriously tired of this way of thinking. For supposedly being the more "open minded," the pro-gay/left/whatever side tends to be very hostile to dissenting opinions.

Being hostile towards people who want you corralled, controlled and publicly slander you en-mass is a survival instinct. As dramatic and overreach as it is, what happens under dictators like the big three and other small time tinpot wankers is ingrained in most of us as wrong: and that we should fight it with everything we have. The situation of gay marriage is not nearly as dire, obviously, but the mentality behind fighting people who seek to suppress it is just as powerful.

 

[Veylon]

I don't quiet get the logic of Ender: He had no problem with doing training simulations for fights he thought were upcoming, then what was the big deal with actually fighting out the very battles he trained for?

In the book he gives up. The constant stress of being awakened at random times to direct these simulations wears him down and he burns out. If he graduates, there's nothing in his future but directing a bleak, endless war for the rest of his life. So he looks at the final, impossible test and says, "Screw this." But then rethinks it. It's only a game; let's have fun with this one last time.

I haven't seen the movie but, if they did it right, the oppressively dramatic music would lift, the children would laugh and they would lightheartedly cheat on the final exam. Take that, Razer!

 

[MatsVS]

When the fuck did it become horrible for people to hold different opinions?

Just because YOU disagree with Card's politics doesn't make them wrong. Nor does it make your right. If he gives money to "anti-gay" organizations, then that's his prerogative. Go give your money to pro-gay ones.

I am seriously tired of this way of thinking. For supposedly being the more "open minded," the pro-gay/left/whatever side tends to be very hostile to dissenting opinions.

No. Just... no. At some point debate ends and the results come in. Views like those held by bottom-feeders like Card are so far beyond the pale they no longer warrant being treated with even a modicum of civility. They are aberrations, an embarrassment to the human race, and attributing them anything close to legitimacy by virtue of not outright shaming the troglodytes whose rotten mouths they come from is doing a huge disservice to ACTUAL debates between civilized human beings.

 

[Tradjus]

His last point pretty much sums up my feelings on this whole deal.
From the start, I thought it was kind of ridiculous that people were talking so much about Card's beliefs. Sure, he's a bigot, but that doesn't have any bearing on the work itself. There is absolutely zero homophobic subtext in Ender's Game that I've ever seen in my multiple readings of it, and, shock, there's none in the movie either. The guy may be an asshole but he's been only peripherally involved in the project from the start. Hell, it might have even been -better- if he'd had more influence on the project, we'll never know, and all we know now is that it's a flop sci-fi action flick just like all of the flop sci-fi action flicks we've had too suffer through lately.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

I knew Bob was going to touch on (well, bludgeon would probably be a better word) the big "controversy" surrounding the movie, but at the very least I didn't think he'd stoop so low for his political leanings. Because what I took away from this was: Roman Polanski raped a teenage girl, and that's bad...a bit. So it's okay to like his movies! But Orson Scott Card isn't overly fond of gay people (but hasn't physically hurt anyone, just their feelings), and that's horrible. So let's all boycott his movie and shoot it down when any piece of drivel who's creator agreed with Bob would get a free pass, or at the very least a very light panning. While I didn't really care about seeing the movie and never read the books, I think now is the time to give Bob and all those like him a little poke in the eye. Amazon.com here I come, and tomorrow night I'm bringing friends.

Spite. Its enough to drive some men to actually waste their time and money on a mediocre book series.

Also, you left out the part where Roman Polanksi lives in exile as a result of that.

 

[Ryan Hughes]

No. Just... no. At some point debate ends and the results come in. Views like those held by bottom-feeders like Card are so far beyond the pale they no longer warrant being treated with even a modicum of civility. They are aberrations, an embarrassment to the human race, and attributing them anything close to legitimacy by virtue of not outright shaming the troglodytes whose rotten mouths they come from is doing a huge disservice to ACTUAL debates between civilized human beings.

Love your profile picture. Suikoden forever.

To a certain extent, you are right. Mr. Card is not just an opponent of gay rights, he actively tries to undermine them, while making baseless and frankly disturbing accusations about homosexuals. Basically, he implies they are a threat, showing just how much he is projecting in the process.

However, are you certain that shaming him is the best course of action? I understand your anger, but were I to outright condemn and shame Mr. Card, then I would be forced to shame and condemn people like my own parents as well, or become a hypocrite. Honestly, I think we are on the brink of a generational shift in gay rights, and any money or effort given to opposing those rights will simply be in vain and have little to no effect. Card is a Mormon, but even most of the Mormons I have met support gay marriage and think it damages their religion to focus on bigotry. Really, ever since DOMA was struck, it is now virtually impossible to stop many states from allowing gay marriage, as well as inheritance and other rights.

Personally, what I think is best is to reach out to people and try to show them that homophobia is baseless and in vain. Sure, maybe we would never convince Card of that, but what about his fellow Mormons who would see him be approached with an open hand, rather than attacked outright? What about the next generation? do we really want them to believe that what we want is full agreement or social ostracization?