Escape to the Movies: Ender's Game

[Product Placement]

MovieBob gives us a spoiler filled review of Ender's Game.

Yeah... this show really should stop being called "Escape to the Movies" and instead "Spoiling the Movies."

I mean, I honestly feel like every other review released by Movie Bob is spoiling the ending someway or the other.

Not that I care one iota about this one; I already knew the story. It's just that it must be possible to review a movie without giving away the entire ending; other reviewers have been doing it for years.

 

[Jedisolo75]

When the fuck did it become horrible for people to hold different opinions?

Just because YOU disagree with Card's politics doesn't make them wrong. Nor does it make your right. If he gives money to "anti-gay" organizations, then that's his prerogative. Go give your money to pro-gay ones.

I am seriously tired of this way of thinking. For supposedly being the more "open minded," the pro-gay/left/whatever side tends to be very hostile to dissenting opinions.

Stop me if this is too much of a logical leap for you but... aside from just giving money to pro-gay organizations, how about I also DON'T give money to Card who will give money to anti-gay organizations? It's as much my prerogative to NOT give him money as it is his prerogative to give anti-gay organizations money.

I agree with Bob that we should try our best to separate the artist from their art when it comes to politics. Artists are often eccentric people, and this is sometimes the source of their talent. Mr. Card may very well be a homophobic and bigoted person, with strong militaristic leanings, however, this does not diminish the book in my opinion.

Look, Card isn't even the worst. On the other end of the spectrum, Oscar Wilde -for all his brilliance- likely hired 16-year old boy prostitutes. Dostoyevsky wrote 'Brothers Karamazov,' one of the most brilliant works of its time, but was also likely at least a mild anti-Semite. T.S. Elliot and Ezra Pound were two of the greatest poets of the 20th century, but were also sympathetic with Nazism, even after the holocaust became apparent. (Though, in their defense, they both voluntarily committed themselves to mental asylums, so they probably knew they didn't have it all together.) I could go on and on. Even if their politics are not messed up, great authors are often addicts, and not to be emulated.

On and on. And soon, we would be left with very few authors to read, inspire, and to make us think. It is tremendously sad that Card makes the statements he does, but the answer is not to mirror his intolerance with our own, but to tolerate him for who is his, rather than ostracizing him.

There's a big difference between Card and Wilde, Pound, Elliot, Dostoyevsky. And it's that he's alive and funding hate groups while they're all dead. If I buy a volume of the Cantos then I won't be supporting fascism, If I go see a performance of The Importance of Being Earnest I won't be funding paedophilia on the other hand the more I consume Card's work the more resources and reach I'm giving him to spread his hate.

is

Does that mean that when he's dead I can buy all of his books, or should I avoid that because his kids might be bigots too? Do I have to wait until they're dead? How long until it's ok?

When the people receiving the money from the sales aren't the heads of hate groups.

This isn't particularly difficult or complicated, don't knowingly fund hate groups.

Enders Game is an undeniable classic, and I love a lot of his other books. By reading them I've never seen any indication that he hates gay people, although he obviously does, and his books helped me out a lot when I was in high school and didn't fit in well.

That's great, seriously helping to provide meaning a guidance is one of the best things literature can do. However please understand that Card's current writing and activism (which he is fully committed too) is directly working to make life much harder for people who already have difficulty in to high school and society in general. Also understand that by defending and promoting his work you are helping him do that.

I get not fitting in and finding comfort in books I really do but having a sense of what it's like to not fit in and be pushed outside social circles should help you understand why we can't tolerate hatemongers who try and push ideologies of repression and rejection of suffering groups.

Also, whether you like it or not Card is already rich, you aren't hurting him a bit by not going to this movie, but you might be hurting the careers of others that worked on this movie that aren't terrible people.

Just because he's rich Yes Card is rich and famous, that doesn't mean we should help him become more rich and famous.

As for other people who worked on the film? Maybe their careers will suffer, I hope not but at the end of the day I don't owe them a ticket sale. I'm not depriving them of anything I don't also deprive of every other film I don't go and see for any other reason and I don't see the majority of films that come out either because I'm too busy or because it's not of a genre that interests me or maybe the trailer looked bad. All of these a valid reasons to not see a film and they all strike me as worse reasons than not seeing it because it's ties to the leader of a hate group.

Good luck finding movies without any jerks in them. Any movie could have someone in it giving money to organizations you disagree with in them.

 

[Whytewulf]

I found the book brilliant, the series very good. I will probably read it again soon, now that I have seen the movie today.

I do wish the movie was 10 minutes longer and had some more explanation why Ender is who is and why he gets chosen. The whole "We sent the fleet before you born thing" is a huge part left out. I don't care they left the earth stuff out, it's like in most books to movies other than say Lord of Rings insanity, have to leave something out. I.E. in potter I always missed that they never showed some of his real life struggles, which made him who he was. But that's why books will always be better at story telling. Movies can wow us for 2 hours!

As for the political and er opinion crap of the author. I don't agree with him, but then again, I don't agree with many people. I judge the Entertainment on it's merit most of the time. And I fully understand people not spending money to support him. What amazes me is the press it gets, such as this... But that's typically the extreme side of liberal media.

 

[Whytewulf]

The worst part is that I feel like the people who went to see the movie without reading the book and who got curious enough to read the book will have the written experience ruined for them. This is probably one of the only cases where I would insist someone read the books first. Le sad.

Possibly, but there is so much more the book can bring. I usually try to read the book before the movies, but I will still read books after and get something out of them.

 

[Jhonny Malkav]

why do we still care about star wars exactly?

 

[Frozengale]

Honestly I think it boils down to this:

If you've read the book, then the movie is amazing.

If you haven't read the book, then the movie is mediocre at best.

Did you mean that the other way around?

Frankly I try not to be too critical of film adaptations of other media, but....there is just one mistake in this that was so heinous I can't except it. "Ender may be the only one who can save the human race" is the way the movie decided to look at it. Which is dumb and cliché, but in the book Ender was nothing special, in fact he seemed to be one of the worst candidates as he was clearly mentally unstable, and anyone at the school could have been the savior.

I just do not get this decision change for the movie. It just sets the whole thing in the wrong light.

Except that in the book it's the same way as the movie for the most part. For one the Wiggins are given special permission to have a third child BECAUSE they think he will be just as special as Valentine and Peter. He is let into Battle School, despite the fact that he committed manslaughter, BECAUSE Graff thinks he is special. He is then isolated, by Graff, BECAUSE he thinks it will be the best way to breed him to be a leader. They then keep throwing curve balls at him BECAUSE they think he is special and capable of handling it. The entire book is basically every talking about how special he is, and him trying to avoid it. He is treated differently from every other candidate the MOMENT he steps into battle school, how is that "nothing special". You obviously read an ENTIRELY different book then everyone else.

 

[l3o2828]

Nah, I'm actually serious.

I'm a big fan of species jingoism in fiction.

If they really didn't think killing humans was bad, they're too stupid to live.

Humanity, Fuck Yeah and such.

In that case, my gift to you: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=HUMANITY

Ah yes, I know those archives very very well.

Thank you for reminding me of them again.

So it sounds like I'm going to completely adore this movie.

I've always felt that since the twist is one of the most well known in fiction, right up there with The Sixth Sense, the best way to play it would be to make it a surprise for Ender, but not the audience.

And I'm rather happy they got rid of the Earth stuff. His cartoonishly evil brother taking over the world via internet forums was completely silly in the book and it would have been silly on film.

I'm also glad they did away with the majority of the whining after the victory. The dirty xeno insect scum deserved every shot fired and if some humans were lost, so be it. After all, the only good bug is a dead bug.

And then we have some one who OBVIOUSLY did not read the book.

But whatever, I'm still watching this film, simply because the book was really good for me, and i actually read it a few months ago for the first time.

I don't know why you say that.

I did in fact read it and I thought it was mostly great.

What part of my opinion do you find heinous that it could only come from someone ignorant of the source material?

Sorry, i got a little angry at your 'Buggers deserved to die' part.

It just felt like you didn't get the fact that their lack of understanding of the human nature led them to think we were just insects.

Basically it felt like you were ignoring one of the huge themes of the book, and the main source of Irony in the story.

But really, you're validated to hate the crap out of them for being so very little developed.

My mistake.

 

[daxterx2005]

Finally the buy my book end bumper is gone.

Also, Bob disliking JJ? No way.

 

[Hektor_Victorious]

Oh, since it was mentioned before, Jeremy Jahns is a great movie reviewer. Unlike Bob, he doesn't inject his politics into every other review and talks about movies from the point of view of a normal moviegoer and not an absolute snob. Out of all the movies Bob has reviewed, I can only think of a couple where we both agreed the movie was good: Kick-Ass, Pacific Rim, Drive, and Warm Bodies. The rest of the time I pretty much treat him like I used to treat Roger Ebert, only watching the movies he doesn't like and avoiding the ones he says are great. Though the Transformers movies are pretty boring.

I, like many other Escape to the Movies fans, am definitely here for the snobbery. Screw low entry level entertainment, I want to be told which films are worth remembering rather than just re-chewing popcorn to like a certain wooly herbivore.

That comparison to an overly long Wesley Crusher episode for example, told me all I need to know.

Might watch it in six months time for the set pieces. Can anybody tell me if Ender still kills a dude in the shower by punching him super hard in the balls?

Well somebody didn't read the book. Ender kills Bonzo by smashing his (Bonzo's) nose into his (Bonzo's) head. The movie dos it differently, however, because the actor who plays Ender is actually taller than the actor who plays Bonzo. So they have Ender shove Bonzo back on a slippery floor and crack his head on a raised concrete platform. Ouch.

 

[Hektor_Victorious]

Honestly I think it boils down to this:

If you've read the book, then the movie is amazing.

If you haven't read the book, then the movie is mediocre at best.

Did you mean that the other way around?

Frankly I try not to be too critical of film adaptations of other media, but....there is just one mistake in this that was so heinous I can't except it. "Ender may be the only one who can save the human race" is the way the movie decided to look at it. Which is dumb and cliché, but in the book Ender was nothing special, in fact he seemed to be one of the worst candidates as he was clearly mentally unstable, and anyone at the school could have been the savior.

I just do not get this decision change for the movie. It just sets the whole thing in the wrong light.

Except that in the book it's the same way as the movie for the most part. For one the Wiggins are given special permission to have a third child BECAUSE they think he will be just as special as Valentine and Peter. He is let into Battle School, despite the fact that he committed manslaughter, BECAUSE Graff thinks he is special. He is then isolated, by Graff, BECAUSE he thinks it will be the best way to breed him to be a leader. They then keep throwing curve balls at him BECAUSE they think he is special and capable of handling it. The entire book is basically every talking about how special he is, and him trying to avoid it. He is treated differently from every other candidate the MOMENT he steps into battle school, how is that "nothing special". You obviously read an ENTIRELY different book then everyone else.

There is another, and that other is BEAN!!!

I am sorely disappointed that bean was not as developed as he was in the book. I realize that the director couldn't have put everything from Ender's Shadow (the better book, btw) into the movie because then it really would be 4 hours long, but Bean deserved more credit than he got. In fact, the only reason Bean wasn't the commander was because the others wouldn't follow him. He was actually smarter than Ender, and he is the only one of the battle schoolers in Ender's Jeesh (team) in the final battle who realizes that it is NOT a simulation and that they ARE fighting the war.

Ender might have been good, but Bean was the best.

 

[Urameshi13]

So they did nothing with Locke or Demosthenes? That's a real disappointment. I read Ender's Game when I was younger and really liked it. Then I read Speaker for the Dead and LOVED IT.

I recommend them to any fan of Sci-Fi.

 

[hexFrank202]

Oh wow, going to see a movie is going to indirectly support someone who says horrible things and is retarded about society.

Welcome to every fucking weekend, Mr. 'Libertine'.

 

[Rthe47]

I can't help but wonder if people think the twist was too obvious. I mean the people I talked to who never read the book were shocked at the twist in the end. I did think when I was watching it that they were giving it away but they weren't.

 

[Ishal]

eck, just reading the synopsis of the book is enough to make me cringe, even now. the super miracle Caucasian genius boy genre is just not my cup of tea.

Same. I could stomach it in the Potterverse because there was enough whimsy and mythological research to keep me entertained, and it helped that Harry developed sensibly, over time. Ender's basically little more than an expy for military strategy fans and, well, the overall connotations to Ender's Game always made me uncomfortable.

I mean, I don't care how desperate your war effort gets or how receptive kids actually are; you just don't send children out to command adults! You don't expose young minds like that to potential genocide! Realistically, that would scar any kid! It's pretty much a borderline-serious indictment of Child Soldier issues because "hey, we're in Future Space, so it's totally fine" - but it really isn't.

I've studied Sci Fi. I've been told time and again that Ender's Game is one of the must-reads in the genre. I've made it through two thirds of the first novel before tossing it aside, vowing never to touch it again. It just feels so callous, so toxic and dangerously convinced of its own morals to me. Tack Card's usual bullshit on top of that and, well, no. Absolutely, positively, no.

Apparently I'm just a pleb when it comes to Sci Fi compared to other fans haha. I've never even heard of Enders Game before this. I thought it was something to do with Zone of the Enders.

Is this really any different from lots of other media though? I mean anime has children fighting things all the time both in place of and alongside adults. It's practically the only way to go in the mecha genre. That doesn't make it right though, I suppose. I admit I'm not fan of the premise. It's basically a movie about me 7 or 8 years ago when I was playing Homeworld. The amount of stuff I did to win and survive in that game (especially at first) was awful. I was a terrible fleet commander. This movie is basically putting that into a screenplay where I need to live with the responsibility of getting an entire fleet massacred. Yeah, no thanks.

 

[DeaDRabbiT]

Deleted my post because the formatting was all wonky. I do apologize.

 

[Therumancer]

So it sounds like I'm going to completely adore this movie.

I've always felt that since the twist is one of the most well known in fiction, right up there with The Sixth Sense, the best way to play it would be to make it a surprise for Ender, but not the audience.

And I'm rather happy they got rid of the Earth stuff. His cartoonishly evil brother taking over the world via internet forums was completely silly in the book and it would have been silly on film.

I'm also glad they did away with the majority of the whining after the victory. The dirty xeno insect scum deserved every shot fired and if some humans were lost, so be it. After all, the only good bug is a dead bug.

I have similar thoughts. Truthfully despite his comments on separating the work from the creator, I kind of get the impression that Bob's opinions were still pretty biased. I do not have this problem though because while I neither agree or disagree with Bob or Orson Scott Card entirely, as a right winger I tend to be a lot more like OSC.

That said, the entire demand for this movie would be by people who were fans from knowing the twist, it comes less down to surprising people, but rather in how well they tell the story.

As far as that ending goes, the idea was to point out that genocide is shocking, but also sometimes necessary. What Ender did was horrible on an purely subjective level, but in the big picture he was also supposed to have saved earth by winning the no-win scenario (so to speak). What would have happened to earth would have been just as bad if he hadn't won.

To be honest it's good to see some things getting away from purely left wing morality, I think everyone will benefit from this down the road.

Speaking for myself really the only other attempt I can think of in fairly recent memory based around the occasional necessity of genocide is the "Aliens" franchise. In "Aliens" the bad guys are the morons who want to preserve or study them, the good guys are the ones who take the "kill them all, there is absolutely no redeeming value in these murder machines" approach. To be honest I've kind of been waiting for them to get away from the evil corporations and have a bunch of left wing preservationists being the ones pointing out "The Queens are Sentinent, that means we can't kill them all...." before being turned into lunch.

As far as books go, the only other one off the top of my head that really dealt with the situation well was called "The Dark Wing". It wasn't great, but made it's points rather well. Indeed I see a lot of echoes of this story in particular in how we deal with the cultures of "The Middle East".

 

[Clankenbeard]

I saw this movie today. I enjoyed it quite a bit. My group had two book readers and two non-readers. All came away pleased. We spanned ages 14-44. Interpret this as you wish. I don't care about Card's affiliations--the dude could write.

If you are thinking about seeing it, I would recommend that you go ahead an do so. As a non-reader, my biggest issue was with the whirlwind advancement of Ender through school. I hate timestamps in movies, but an occasional "6-months later" would have been appreciated for me to put Ender's temporal journey into context.

Oh, and seeing "Rico" (Moises Arias) from the concession stand on Hannah Montana (my daughter watched it) play Bonzo Madrid was surprisingly good.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Is this really any different from lots of other media though?

I think the difference is in the tone that's being used. Shonen Manga tends to focus on pre-adolescent or adolescent kids because, well, it's the intended market. The problem I have with Shonen, though, is that most works in that genre stick pre-teens and teens in situations they wouldn't be ready or able to deal with in any shape or form.

My grandmother talks a big game about how she was actively working by the time she turned sixteen. My father started at fifteen and actually lied to get hired earlier than legally permitted. Nowadays, some kids don't enter the job circuit until very late in their teens, sometimes early in their twenties. That goes without considering the remaining effort to get into an actual *career*, at which point you can stretch that out to the early-to-mid thirties.

So when I fire up Resident Evil the first in name and see that Rebecca Chambers is something around sixteen or seventeen and is ALREADY operating in the Resident Evil-verse's most common Spec Ops-alike team, I kinda cringe. I know it's a Japanese thing, guys like their girls young and nubile and all - but it really breaks credibility. At sixteen, I would've started whining like a five year-old if you'd asked me to start planning for my retirement or to pay taxes!

I got sidetracked, here. So, I have issues with the Fantasy Employability of teens and preteens as typified by Shonen Manga. I think it could also be considered a leftover of old playtime routines. Children like to pretend they're adults, and kids like reading or watching stories where they still are young and hip and cool, but somehow have the weight of the world on their shoulders and Super Important Serious Jobs.

Like, um, piloting giant mechs or slaying sexless humanoid cretures that stand thirty feet tall. Yep, that's absolutely serious. Keep in mind, I've watched Anime as much as anyone else. I can pocket that peeve of mine and just enjoy a series for its own merit, but I'll confess I couldn't do that with Attack on Titan. That's another story.

As for Ender - I feel the aim here is to show that Humanity is so desperate they have to keep pushing the drafting age backwards. This doesn't really make sense to me. I mean, they must have veterans in that universe, right? Why not pull their hypothetical expy of the Red Baron out of retirement? Why not bait all the recently retired officers with killer bonuses? They could provide assistance to the families that had to sacrifice their seniors to push the Formix back, too.

But nope, child soldiers are a go. Increased neuroplasticity and faster reaction times being the cited reasons behind that; which, to me, is total bullshit. Not every senior has a ticking time bomb that explodes and triggers Alzheimer's; I've seen eightysomethings that had better reaction times and actual reflexes than kids half my age!