Escapist Editors in the Midst of an Exodus?! -Updated-
- Thread starter Fappy
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I don't think it is that specifically leading to cash issues. 20 dollars per year is nothing compared to ad revenue generated by a single user over the same period - based on my own admittedly slim experience with ad money (blag), 10 cents per view is a reasonable level to see (more money for flashier ads). Considering multiple ads per page, and multiple page views per day per person, the pub club should be a money loss overall. The only way it balances out was if someone made the decision between using a blocker and having a subscription.TopazFusion said:
Also, a company the size of Defy should not be running into money problems over the course of less than half a year, unless archon and his bros were having caviar and crystal fueled parties every night. Usually you can see the trends tilting south miles away, and its a question of whether you can effectively offset it in time. You might remember for instance how there was a rather sudden explosion of diversity on the site.
I think you're off by a couple orders of magnitude. It's more like $0.10 per site visitor per ad per month. 500 regular monthly viewers generating about 50 bucks monthly (edit: per normal ad, bigger adds costing more of course). Per view would be insane.EvilRoy said:
Seriously? I was getting 7 cents per pageview when I ran the blag. That was the whole thrust behind clickbait, so more clicks would happen generating more pageviews. I know I was getting a reasonably good deal and it still took weeks to make 20 bucks, but that's because I wrote like crap.JarinArenos said:
EDIT: Looking at the other gaming websites, there's a definite decline going around in the post-holiday bust.
I see some blaming this on gamergate, but I think that's needlessly reductive, since GamerGate is more an EFFECT, rather than a CAUSE.
Truth is, a number of these large gaming sites were already barely clinging to relevancy in the aftermath of DoritoGate, as more and more of the silent majority became aware of how unreliable these outlets were, or more accurately, just how far out of the loop the consumer was in regards to the needs of these sites.
Consumer viewership was traded and treated like a commodity; we were cattle to be herded about, and when that gimmick started falling apart, the gaming press resorted to clickbait to fill in the void.
And what better click-bait to push than controversy and moralizing bullshit?
A cursory look at the threads that receive the most views and comments are the most controversial.
Unfortunately, in pushing the clickbait angle, these people aligned themselves with radical SJWs (mostly feminists and other armchair activists from Tumblr, but not exclusively so); radicals whose works demand conformity to a given narrative, no matter how intellectually bankrupt, dishonest, or factually untrue it might be.
They drank the Kool-Aid and became tainted; that's why the press universally supports political hacks like Anita Sarkeesian* and curiously IGNORES anything that goes against the narrative, even when proven wrong (like what happened with Wizardchan).
(*who has been proven to be dishonest in her work by actual academic peer review process, which I have read and am familiar with by trade)
The clickbait gimmickry worked for a time, but alas, the press became too close to their new ideological pen-pals, so when real controversy started hitting too close to home, they ordered a gag order on not just everyone in the press, but the audience too.
This resulted in one of the biggest runaway Streisand Effects I have -EVER SEEN- and I've seen a LOT even compared to your average gamer. And when they failed to contain THAT, the press universally rallied AGAINST THEIR OWN READERSHIP and deliberately divorced themselves in a series of "Gamers are Dead" articles.
(articles that only idiots and idealogues continue to defend to this day; I cannot count how many "reinterpretations" and dismissals of their content I've seen. The lengths people will go to rationalize and dismiss controversy away in order to maintain the status quo is nothing short of astonishing. Truly, human stupidity has no limit.)
...And thus, was created GamerGate. Which the gaming press desperately rallied against in an act of hilarious hypocrisy for the last quarter of 2014. It has become the pariah for everything "wrong" with gamer, whether it was deserved or not.
Frankly, I don't associate with them, or expose anything because I've been around long enough to be able to read the subtext at work here, and that subtext has been "Game journalism is a sad joke".
It's been a sad joke for a lot longer than any of this. Well before GamerGate. Before DoritoGate, before ME3, hell, well before any of these online game websites existed.
All of this SJW Clickbait nonsense was just the last desperate ploy to keep a dying breed alive. Fact is, when these websites sold their opinions to publishers with deep pockets over a decade ago, that was the beginning of the end for them.
Print magazines died only to be reborn as website, but that was just a medium change. As long as the gaming press retained their utility to their audience first, and maintained a professional attitude tempered with a bit of enthusiasm, they had a place in the world.
But they threw it all away in a Faustian deal; and when the devil took his due, they doubled-down with another demon to keep them out of perdition for just a while longer, and now that has failed them too.
I see some blaming this on gamergate, but I think that's needlessly reductive, since GamerGate is more an EFFECT, rather than a CAUSE.
Truth is, a number of these large gaming sites were already barely clinging to relevancy in the aftermath of DoritoGate, as more and more of the silent majority became aware of how unreliable these outlets were, or more accurately, just how far out of the loop the consumer was in regards to the needs of these sites.
Consumer viewership was traded and treated like a commodity; we were cattle to be herded about, and when that gimmick started falling apart, the gaming press resorted to clickbait to fill in the void.
And what better click-bait to push than controversy and moralizing bullshit?
A cursory look at the threads that receive the most views and comments are the most controversial.
Unfortunately, in pushing the clickbait angle, these people aligned themselves with radical SJWs (mostly feminists and other armchair activists from Tumblr, but not exclusively so); radicals whose works demand conformity to a given narrative, no matter how intellectually bankrupt, dishonest, or factually untrue it might be.
They drank the Kool-Aid and became tainted; that's why the press universally supports political hacks like Anita Sarkeesian* and curiously IGNORES anything that goes against the narrative, even when proven wrong (like what happened with Wizardchan).
(*who has been proven to be dishonest in her work by actual academic peer review process, which I have read and am familiar with by trade)
The clickbait gimmickry worked for a time, but alas, the press became too close to their new ideological pen-pals, so when real controversy started hitting too close to home, they ordered a gag order on not just everyone in the press, but the audience too.
This resulted in one of the biggest runaway Streisand Effects I have -EVER SEEN- and I've seen a LOT even compared to your average gamer. And when they failed to contain THAT, the press universally rallied AGAINST THEIR OWN READERSHIP and deliberately divorced themselves in a series of "Gamers are Dead" articles.
(articles that only idiots and idealogues continue to defend to this day; I cannot count how many "reinterpretations" and dismissals of their content I've seen. The lengths people will go to rationalize and dismiss controversy away in order to maintain the status quo is nothing short of astonishing. Truly, human stupidity has no limit.)
...And thus, was created GamerGate. Which the gaming press desperately rallied against in an act of hilarious hypocrisy for the last quarter of 2014. It has become the pariah for everything "wrong" with gamer, whether it was deserved or not.
Frankly, I don't associate with them, or expose anything because I've been around long enough to be able to read the subtext at work here, and that subtext has been "Game journalism is a sad joke".
It's been a sad joke for a lot longer than any of this. Well before GamerGate. Before DoritoGate, before ME3, hell, well before any of these online game websites existed.
All of this SJW Clickbait nonsense was just the last desperate ploy to keep a dying breed alive. Fact is, when these websites sold their opinions to publishers with deep pockets over a decade ago, that was the beginning of the end for them.
Print magazines died only to be reborn as website, but that was just a medium change. As long as the gaming press retained their utility to their audience first, and maintained a professional attitude tempered with a bit of enthusiasm, they had a place in the world.
But they threw it all away in a Faustian deal; and when the devil took his due, they doubled-down with another demon to keep them out of perdition for just a while longer, and now that has failed them too.
I see it as a portmanteau of "Blog" and "Rag" (ala the old timey description for a newspaper, "the rag").Fappy said:
I won't be leaving any time soon, but Jesus...I know I don't post anyway near as much as most of you, but I'm going to miss all you fuckers if this all ends. Even the guys I don't like, because it all added to make such an interesting and well balanced mix. I'll miss you all.
I dont anticipate doom and gloom, but I cant imagine the site moving forward in a way that retains a lot of the overall "feel" that brought a lot of folks to it. I know a lot of people frequent the site for Yahtzee, but there's also plenty who just like the forums here, and I don't see why any change in the entertainment and content would prevent said people from continuing to hang out with each other here.
I only visit the site out of habit, it's my go-to video game website strictly because of the community. The people here were the first outside of family to know that Tali'Zorah was being born, and that her name was Tali'Zorah. I started trading and giving away Steam games here, a practice continued in a sticky thread. I'm proud of having shown a few people how to build their own PC, and created a place to ask questions about the process without dick-waving or ridicule. Some of those people became game friends, and a couple are genuine acquaintances.
I say all that to make this point: Should Yahtzee storm out, dragging Bob with him and leaving a carbon-copy site content wise to the dozens of game websites that get flashed in CoD commercials, none of those sites have the people, the infrastructure, and the comment section format that fosters the bizarre sense of belonging, even to the lurkers. I know I don't matter much to the site overall, but it's the community thats stuck around that makes this site important to me. I wouldn't consider any of whats transpired an alarm bell until most of the posts are of Youtube comment quality and I can't recognize a single name, thats where the search would begin all over again for me.
I only visit the site out of habit, it's my go-to video game website strictly because of the community. The people here were the first outside of family to know that Tali'Zorah was being born, and that her name was Tali'Zorah. I started trading and giving away Steam games here, a practice continued in a sticky thread. I'm proud of having shown a few people how to build their own PC, and created a place to ask questions about the process without dick-waving or ridicule. Some of those people became game friends, and a couple are genuine acquaintances.
I say all that to make this point: Should Yahtzee storm out, dragging Bob with him and leaving a carbon-copy site content wise to the dozens of game websites that get flashed in CoD commercials, none of those sites have the people, the infrastructure, and the comment section format that fosters the bizarre sense of belonging, even to the lurkers. I know I don't matter much to the site overall, but it's the community thats stuck around that makes this site important to me. I wouldn't consider any of whats transpired an alarm bell until most of the posts are of Youtube comment quality and I can't recognize a single name, thats where the search would begin all over again for me.
If there is a mass exodus, I too would like to not be "that guy". I was there for the collapse of 1up, largely due to overmoderation and favoritism. If people are leaving for other sites after this, I'd like to know where so I don't have to stick around for the deathknell of the Escapist.
Just want to take a moment to offer a thanks to Carly, Smith and Lincoln for their work on the site.
(already posted one to tito, don't want to show favoritism)
I sincerely hope you all find new challenges and outlets for your work sooner rather than later and, on a selfish level, I hope I get the opportunity to read your work again.
I don't think this is the deathknell of the Escapist, just another step along its journey.
All the same, I've got my last post quote picked out already.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.?
(already posted one to tito, don't want to show favoritism)
I sincerely hope you all find new challenges and outlets for your work sooner rather than later and, on a selfish level, I hope I get the opportunity to read your work again.
I don't think this is the deathknell of the Escapist, just another step along its journey.
All the same, I've got my last post quote picked out already.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.?
There's only one thing left to do, then. Play 'em off, Sam.
I KNOW
I KNOW I'VE LET YOU DOWN
I'VE BEEN A FOOL TO MYSELF
I THOUGHT THAT I COULD LIVE FOR NO-ONE ELSE
I KNOW
I KNOW I'VE LET YOU DOWN
I'VE BEEN A FOOL TO MYSELF
I THOUGHT THAT I COULD LIVE FOR NO-ONE ELSE
My condolences to all of those afflicted by these layoffs. Losing your job is never easy nor is it something to be taken lightly. I wish them the best of luck in their future endeavors.
To speak for the state of The Escapist moving forward, I'm really at a loss for words. Other than occasionally coming back to the forums, Yahtzee and MovieBob are the only ones I care to watch here anymore. There is very little I can say here in this thread that hasn't already been said, honestly. I don't plan on going anywhere, though.
Like many others, The Escapist is one of my favorite sites to frequent, and I won't see it go down so easily.
To speak for the state of The Escapist moving forward, I'm really at a loss for words. Other than occasionally coming back to the forums, Yahtzee and MovieBob are the only ones I care to watch here anymore. There is very little I can say here in this thread that hasn't already been said, honestly. I don't plan on going anywhere, though.
Like many others, The Escapist is one of my favorite sites to frequent, and I won't see it go down so easily.
But here's what everyone misses about the purpose of "Professional Ethics" such as Business Ethics or Journalistic Ethics. They are not some vague moral concept. They are a market force value. The purpose of them is to increase trust and therefore value and sale ability of all. But the counterpoint is each example of a contributing individual being UN professional or failing to display ethics devalues all. This is why ethics are encouraged in any given industry. It's not for "fairness" or "truth" or "morality". It is because failure of any individual to follow ethics brings real tangible harm or diminishment to every other participant of that industry. Consumer backlashes such as Gamergate are merely the end point of that arc, where the value and trust of the overall industry has become so degraded that the consumers of the work product have become openly hostile and unforgiving. This is never the consumers fault. And when it happens it can badly damage everyone in an industry.Fappy said:That's why I edited in "potentially"Thorn14 said:
I am well aware that the response to GG by some professionals wasn't very... well... professional. I won't try to defend that behavior.
Well this doesn't sound good for the forum, but hopefully things will get better soon.
Fappy said:
Zhukov said:
Colour Scientist said:
Well, if it ever does get that bad to where a fair number of people are leaving to a fallback forum, I would like to hop on board. I mean, yeah, I'm think I still pretty much semi-unheard of in the forum in spite of me talking to some of you people, but you all are interesting enough to tag along in case things go too far south that the site ends up in Antarctica.Fappy said: