ESRB Defends Dead Island Logo Decision

Jumplion

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MrDeckard said:
Jumplion said:
MrDeckard said:
Dear ESRB,

You are rapidly becoming a contender to PETA in the contest for "Stupidest company to be involved in games". If you do not want this shameful title, than please stop this idiocy now.

Thank You.
The game is rated M. The box art is not.

Now that I think about it, it's not even that it potentially references a shaky period of history in the US, it's just that it's just graphic enough to not be appropriate to be shown on store shelves, and I don't see why that is getting any outcry.

And as others have said; how would you hang a zombie?
Observe.

[image/]http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/1777/1216677243.jpg[/IMG]

[image/]http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/14030/851818-dead_space_cover_large.jpg[/IMG]

[image/]http://crackedajester.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/dead-rising-cover.jpg[/IMG]

Now compare

[image/]http://www.gamedwellers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Dead-Island-Logo.jpg[/IMG]

Are you saying ANY of those other boxarts are not as bad if not worse than Dead Islands silhouette of a hung guy?

Oh, and in response to the "Why hang a zombie?" argument, I think it was a guy who got bit and hung himself instead of turning.
Two of those are just floating hands, and the Dead Rising one is just zombies going "GRAAAAHAHEWQHAHOUQPA!"

So, yeah, it probably is the potential symbolism, never mind then. Really, look up some pictures of lynching, it's eerily similar...
 

Evil Alpaca

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SirCannonFodder said:
Also, where the heck was the rope hanging from? Palm trees for the most part don't have proper branches, the leaves just sort of stick out of the trunk, and are pretty damn flexible. Something as heavy as a human body would have made the leaf/frond sag down until the body hit the trunk.
This was my first thought when I looked at the box art.

Back to the topic, I can kinda understand changing the art. Unlike content, box art can be seen by people who are not buying the game, and since stores tend to lump all games together, that means that minors can see it. Its a minor change that doesn't really effect people buying the game. If the game were less popular then maybe, but as it is, its a simple cosmetic change.
 

Gladiateher

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Meh w/e it's not so bad who honestly gives a shit about logos/boxart and yeah its true that lots of people will probably see this logo, why rock the boat?
 

Thorvan

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Adzma said:
For the land of the free, you guys sure do have some odd fine print when it comes to these things.
The ESRB isn't a government body, mind you, (which is what "land of the free" means, freedom of speech from government tampering) so they can do whatever they want. If it doesn't fit within their guidelines, they're the ones providing the service and their FREE to dismiss the game for rating. Seems pretty FREE to me.
 

Jumplion

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TestECull said:
Jumplion said:
TestECull said:
What happened to "If you don't like something just ignore it"?
The boxart would be present in most every store shelf in America, with thousands of people coming into Gamestops/Best Buys/Walmarts, some of them either sensitive to the potential symbolism with the hanging or just not desensitized to these things as we are. Is it easier to make everyone else get used to it, or just change the simple detail without a fuss?

Again, the game is rated M. The boxart is not.
My point couldn't have sailed any higher over your head if it was strapped to a weather balloon.


My point is: Why should they have to censor the box art? Why can't people just ignore things they don't like? I don't get all pissy when I see something offensive. I just ignore it and move on with my life. Why am I the only one that can do that?
Because box art on display at your local Wal-Mart isn't exactly the easiest thing to ignore? Like I said in the original post? I don't think that's missing the point, but whatever.

I'd agree with you if it was "If you don't like what's in the game, don't play it!" because that requires the person to get the game. A box art is just on display publicly wherever you go. It'd be akin to, say, putting out a game with a completely naked dude on the boxart. Sure, you could (difficultly) ignore it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still pretty indecent. (not the best example, I'm sure, just a random one I could think of)

You, and many other people in general, have to realize that the rest of the world isn't as desensitized to these kinds of things as we are. The people who are against censorship and all that are causing more of a fuss than anyone else, Deep Silver/Techland just changed a minor detail on their boxart that potentially alluded to the US's history of lynchings [http://righteouschoices.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/250px-lynching2.jpg] (Link NSFW). I don't see that as censorship, I just see it as thoughtful of them.
 

Timedraven 117

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Adzma said:
For the land of the free, you guys sure do have some odd fine print when it comes to these things.
land of the free?!!? really this place is about as free as england
a true free land would be a nation where you can do whatever the hell you want including; murder theft rape underaged sex Ect ect ect
 

Bon_Clay

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BENZOOKA said:
I just want to say that was a brilliant comparison.

Having gore or nudity on the cover where it will be in plain sight of anyone in a store is an understandable thing to complain about. But I really think this cover is pretty tame and didn't really need changing.

But oh well, if its just a logo and not the game it isn't really worth complaining about.
 

Dastardly

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Lost In The Void said:
Ya I really wish that we [Canadians] had our own rating system, if only for the reason that we have a different culture from the USA. It isn't that I'm trying to be edgy or individual by saying that but both you and Root bring up that point, lynching is a sore subject in America. Not North America and as such it shouldn't affect us or have an effect on us, much like it wouldn't happen in Europe.

I'm pretty much just saying that I agree with you why they did it, but I don't like that we get drug along with it. One of those things we just need to tolerate, like horrible Amnesia box art, or censorship that doesn't culturally relate with us at all
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding as to what's going on here. The ESRB just recommends things. It's a voluntary self-regulation tool that game makers use. It's not a government body or an enforcement or legislative agency.

What's going on here is the ESRB is saying, "It might be a good idea for you all to change this, because of how American consumers might react." No one is forcing any specific reaction here. The publisher makes the decision.

Now, why would it not use separate box art and ratings for Canada and the rest of North America? It's just not cost effective. Two different boxes for the same region can cause logistical headaches. Nothing earth-ending, but enough not to be worth the money. It's no different than the folks you work with getting a pizza, and just getting a couple plain cheese pizzas rather than ten small pizzas with each individual's preferred toppings. It's just easier and smarter.
 

EvolutionKills

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Witty Name Here said:
EvolutionKills said:
Are you American? Are you familiar with American history? Check out the Civil Rights movement of the 50's and 60's. When black people were chased down, beaten, had dogs sicked on them for wanting the rights they're entitled to under the Constitution. And the worst of all was the flagrant and outright murder of black people in the southern states, often with the consent or help of the local law enforcement. And the most iconic of these killing were the LYNCHINGS. Don't know what that means?

"Lynching is an extrajudicial execution carried out by a mob, often by hanging, but also by burning at the stake or shooting, in order to punish an alleged transgressor, or to intimidate, control, or otherwise manipulate a population of people, however large or small."

Do you understand now why the silhouette of a HANGED MAN might just be incredibly offensive to a good chunk of the American population, and could easily be taken out of context and turned into a media shit storm by people with a misguided agenda?
Are you swedish? Do you know Swedish history? Several innocents who were persecuted were put in the "bronze ox" which was a giant ox made of bronze that was commonly used by the swedes, the victims would be put inside the ox while a fire would be lit under it, burning them alive without being touched by a single flame. Yet each year people eat steaks and food made from cows, cows are offensive and shouldn't exist.

Dear god, really? I don't want to be offensive, but I'm American, and lynching wasn't even in my head when I saw that picture, hell, when most people see a person being hanged they don't think of lynching, they just think of an execution method, America isn't as much of a nanny state as people think.


For starters, it never entered your head most likely because you're not black. White people complain about people complaining about racism because they don't see it, because it doesn't still affect them on a regular basis. Everyone else complains because it still does exists but white people don't seem to notice because they thought everything was already fixed back in the 60's. Why? Because we're ignorant of our history (for the record, I am Caucasian).


And for your analogy to work, it would require the game box art to have a silhouette of an ox, and the silhouettes of what appear to be human/s inside it, and some flames. On a hill, all in red against the background art. Then, it would have to have a title invoking death or dying, something like 'Death Cattle' or 'Fatal Brahmin' or 'Danger Herd'. And the game would end up being about hunting an army of mutated cows or some such. But if they changed the box art for the Swedish version, and I was aware of this part of Swedish history, I would understand.


I mean, maybe. When was the last time this 'Bronze Ox' was used? Was it used as a scare tactic to depress an entire separate ethnicity within the Sweden? Was it within the last half century? Are there people still alive in Sweden that might have had mothers/fathers/sisters/brothers/aunts/uncles/etc that were killed in one of these things? In the same way that there are still people living in the US with emotional scars from the Civil Rights era?


Or did you really mean the Brazen Bull? The Sicilian torture device devised in ancient Greece. It seems that it was used most recently by Roman emperors against a few Christians. Regardless, this is ancient history. Not within the last half century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazen_bull


Anyways your analogy, that a 'bronze ox' = steak is bad, would be like saying 'hanged man' = rope is bad...


Also, that hypothetical box art for 'Death Cattle' would probably be super offensive to any practicing Hindu, to which cows are very sacred. 'Fallout 3' wasn't released in India for a similar reason. Not that Fallout 3 had Brahmin on the cover, but something seemingly simple as 'cows' to Americans and Europeans, holds a much deeper and significant meaning to people in India.


"Apparently some of the game's content can be offensive to Indians, our guess is that one particular aspect of the game, which has survivors of the apocalypse use "brahmin" -- two-headed cows mutated by radiation -- as pack animals. Yes, the game contains two headed mutant cows which are called Brahmins, which Microsoft India believes can cause unwanted controversy."

http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Fallout_3_Not_Coming_to_India/551-94432-585.html
 

skywalkerlion

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I think they have a point, because the box art definitely gets noticed by a wider audience then it's content, but I think the art itself is rather tame.
 

Giest4life

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lord.jeff said:
Giest4life said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
As I said before
It would be as bad as a Zombie silhouette being guillotined in France, nailbombed or carchased in a tunnel in England, kneecapped in Ireland, or having it's hands amputated in Arabia.

Certain things don't sit well with certain cultures because of their past. Having a "shadow" man hanging from a tree doesn't work well in America. Don't make me have to spell it out why. (KKK)
And how does that justify censoring the art when the game will--probably--receive a M rating?
Because the content in the game is rated M, the box art isn't, thats on public display and will be seen by all. I believe box art should be an image that wold fall within the E rating, because gamestops have six year olds and easily offended parents in them and it would just makes things easier if we don't piss them off, plus at least in this regard we shouldn't have to piss them off.
What of the Victoria's Secret Banners displayed in the mall? What of the "Learn to have Better Sex" books displayed on shelves at Barnes & Noble? Face it, there is a hypocrisy when it comes to video games. And that's fine--I just want it to be acknowledged.
 

Jumplion

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TestECull said:
Yes, box art is easy to ignore. So is anything else you find offensive. I don't get pissy when I see box art that offends me, I don't get all pissy when I hear someone throwing racial slurs and I don't get pissy when I see some four hundred pound behemoth waddle up to the counter for a third Big Mac. Yet these things offend me. Hell for that matter the very box art I'm defending I find somewhat offensive. But you know what? I can ignore it. I can live and let live. I don't want to force Deep Silver to change their boxart so my precious virgin eyes won't be soiled by a zombie getting hanged.
So, let's imagine, for a second, that this game was a racial slur that was sold at hundreds of retailers where thousands of people go in and out with some people hearing that slur. Would you tell those thousands of people to "get over it!" or would it just be easier for the publisher to just tweak the slur so it won't be as offensive and prevent any potential controversy?

So why can't anyone else do that?
Because some people, who have lived during a certain, volatile era during US history may find some offense to a silhouette of a man being hanged on a tree because, whether intentional or not, it alludes to a certain practice that would be considered offensive?

Again, we're desensitized to these things, others are not.

It has absolutely nothing to do with desensitization and everything to do with entitled, spoiled soccer mom dipshits who can't ignore something they should ignore.
Again, I'd agree with you if it was the game's contents that was being censored. But boxart is on public display. And again, there hasn't been any real controversy over this other than from self entitled "free speech" people (not saying you are one) who don't want anyone to "censor" anything no matter what the circumstances.

If I were Deep Silver and the ESRB asked me to censor the boxart like this, and I didn't just tell them where they can stick their recommendation without changing a thing, I'd replace the entire image with "We used to have a snazzy logo for our game on the box, but thanks to some entitled shitheads who don't know how to ignore things they find offensive, the ESRB said we had to censor it. So instead, here's Dead Island. Have fun murdering everything in sight!"
Yes, let them create more controversy than they need, I'm sure that will work out perfectly for their game's sales.

It's just Deep Silver being considerate. Anti-censor people are making more of a fuss over this than anyone else.
 

Lost In The Void

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Aug 27, 2008
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Dastardly said:
Lost In The Void said:
Ya I really wish that we [Canadians] had our own rating system, if only for the reason that we have a different culture from the USA. It isn't that I'm trying to be edgy or individual by saying that but both you and Root bring up that point, lynching is a sore subject in America. Not North America and as such it shouldn't affect us or have an effect on us, much like it wouldn't happen in Europe.

I'm pretty much just saying that I agree with you why they did it, but I don't like that we get drug along with it. One of those things we just need to tolerate, like horrible Amnesia box art, or censorship that doesn't culturally relate with us at all
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding as to what's going on here. The ESRB just recommends things. It's a voluntary self-regulation tool that game makers use. It's not a government body or an enforcement or legislative agency.

What's going on here is the ESRB is saying, "It might be a good idea for you all to change this, because of how American consumers might react." No one is forcing any specific reaction here. The publisher makes the decision.

Now, why would it not use separate box art and ratings for Canada and the rest of North America? It's just not cost effective. Two different boxes for the same region can cause logistical headaches. Nothing earth-ending, but enough not to be worth the money. It's no different than the folks you work with getting a pizza, and just getting a couple plain cheese pizzas rather than ten small pizzas with each individual's preferred toppings. It's just easier and smarter.
Again I understand the problem, and like when friends order that cheese pizza when you wanted pepperoni, you just have to tolerate it, but you're annoyed none the less. But as they say "c'est la vie.'
 

mb16

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Sep 14, 2008
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
As I said before
It would be as bad as a Zombie silhouette being guillotined in France, nailbombed or carchased in a tunnel in England, kneecapped in Ireland, or having it's hands amputated in Arabia.

Certain things don't sit well with certain cultures because of their past. Having a "shadow" man hanging from a tree doesn't work well in America. Don't make me have to spell it out why. (KKK)
Car chase in a tunnel? If you are talking about Diana nobody really cares any more apart from some newspapers and loud people who are slow to move on.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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mb16 said:
Car chase in a tunnel? If you are talking about Diana nobody really cares any more apart from some newspapers and loud people who are slow to move on.
You'd be mortified to learn how many are still ready to buy books on it.